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Geesh, I was just yanking your chain a little.  Anyway .... I subscribe to the theory that you don't win a damn thing as far as Super Bowls in today's NFL without a great QB. I further subscribe to the theory, backed with with significant evidence, that we do not have one. However, that's all well established, and if I continue someone will check in with condescending remarks and downright hateful comments ...... and I simply don't feel like putting up with that right now. I'm going to be happy with life in general ....... miserable with the Browns (just like almost every year) ...... and hope that my back gets somewhat better.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why is the media forcing a QB on us? Now that reports are out that we are not interested in Flynn.. they are saying we are going to take Tannehill at 4.. what in the world?? 
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Quote:
Why is the media forcing a QB on us?
Now that reports are out that we are not interested in Flynn.. they are saying we are going to take Tannehill at 4.. what in the world??
The media is ridiculous but I feel their pain. It's gotta be tough to cover Colt McCoy and that offense (as it stands)
I want a QB as much as anyone, but Tannehill at 4 is laughable. The Browns aren't going to get duped into panicking.
Also, It seems like the media wants a QB because they don't want 4-12, but how does grabbing Tannehill in the draft or even if we had RG3 guarantee we get more than that. Blaine Gabbert anyone? Christian Ponder?
I just think that we are this far along, that there is no reason to panic and grab a QB just to grab one. I only want Tannehill if the Browns were high on him well before RG3 went off the board.
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The only thing that is really important is that, I was right and Ytown was wrong. we didnt get RG3. :P lol I was also right about not going after flynn. So excuse me while i give myself two pats on the back.
Now back to Pick #4. Trade down, Tannehill, Claiborne and the longer shot Blackmon. I been saying for months we would draft Tannehill and it is looking even more like that will happen but never know. No Griffin, No flynn they are gonna draft Tannehill and groom him for the starting role but Colt will have to go out and beat him in camp.
Lombardi btw on path to the draft NFL network (watching now) is now saying the browns made a very luke warm offer towards trading up for Griffin.
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Quote:
Why is the media forcing a QB on us?
Now that reports are out that we are not interested in Flynn.. they are saying we are going to take Tannehill at 4.. what in the world??
Because they have eyes and saw how the QB played last year, without benefit of orange and brown colored glasses?
I still hope that we don't make a panic pick like Tannehill at 4. We need sure fire great player at that position, not a questionable talent who might not even be ready to see the field for a couple of years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Good for you man. I too am getting tired of mocking comments and people sticking to the idea we didn't make a competitive offer to the Rams.
A few years ago I had the energy to take it on. Now I don't.
People can be thrilled as heck with plan B and plan C. I'm not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Its entirely possible that we never even tried to get him, and our name was used to get a killer offer from the skins.
I don't believe that simply because in this "good 'ole boy" network that is the NFL once word gets out about a move like that and nobody will ever want to deal with you again.
That's an awful high price to pay for an extra mid-round pick.
I just don't believe it works that way. I'm sure there's a lot of "car salesmanship" going on at all times, but I don't think lying like that gets good reviews from their peers.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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Its entirely possible that we never even tried to get him, and our name was used to get a killer offer from the skins.
I don't believe that simply because in this "good 'ole boy" network that is the NFL once word gets out about a move like that and nobody will ever want to deal with you again.
That's an awful high price to pay for an extra mid-round pick.
I just don't believe it works that way. I'm sure there's a lot of "car salesmanship" going on at all times, but I don't think lying like that gets good reviews from their peers.
Exactly, but some people don't get it or have ZERO ethics. There was no lying, and if there was and Heck didn't protest, he's a punk.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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what I don't get is how our #4 and #22 this year and first next year isn't better than what the 'Skins gave up.
If we offered what you suggest and the Redskins offered what they did, then I can answer this.
In terms of draft position, 6 > 22 and 39 > null.
As for me, I'm glad that we didn't win the RG3 debacle.
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People can be thrilled as heck with plan B and plan C. I'm not.
What exactly do you suggest Plans A, B, & C have been?
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It's obvious plan A was RGIII. The others, I have no clue since I am not sure the goofs in Berea know what plan B is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Why was RG3 obviously Plan A?
I don't get that sense at all.
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Does anyone think Decastro will last to #22?
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Does anyone think Decastro will last to #22?
No.
And I don't think we'd take a G in the 1st round anyways...
But if he did, I'd love to call up an OL hungry team and get a 1st next year...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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There was no lying, and if there was and Heck didn't protest, he's a punk.
His protest doesn't have to be public. Just so the right people get informed is enough.
peen, I don't know what went down. No one does and we're likely to never find out unless ten years from now someone writes a tell-all book that includes this chapter.
I don't even care what happened. We did or didn't go after RGlll. We didn't get him for whatever reason. Time to move one from that in my opinion.
It will take a couple more years and by that time we'll see if this "build through the draft" and "not make big splashes to impress the fan base" philosophy proves out.
Until then we all have the right to our own opinions. You, me, everybody.
My main opinion is that this is going to work. At the very least I'm willing to let it play out. Taking our time and building a team is one philosophy we've yet to try.
We have more than a couple of successful members of this team's FO and staff and they all seem to be on board with this method. Now that Shurmur has a year behind him we have 4 head coaches on the staff and Holmgren's another one. Then we have Heckert who was with a team that went to 3 Championship games (just like the Kosar era Browns) and a Superbowl. They have to know something about how it works.
They are not idiots.
#gmstrong
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Its entirely possible that we never even tried to get him, and our name was used to get a killer offer from the skins.
I don't believe that simply because in this "good 'ole boy" network that is the NFL once word gets out about a move like that and nobody will ever want to deal with you again.
That's an awful high price to pay for an extra mid-round pick.
I just don't believe it works that way. I'm sure there's a lot of "car salesmanship" going on at all times, but I don't think lying like that gets good reviews from their peers.
The fact of the matter remains that RGIII was in high demand. Our name was out there. So were the names of other teams. I can guarantee that the rams did nothing to dissuade anyone either.
Its about one thing to these guys....bettering your team so you can win. I don't think anyone would fault anyone for their demands for a trade.
The rams don't have to trade their pick...its theirs...they have the right to pick 2nd in the draft. They don't have to do anything. The only thing they did do is to say that they were willing to entertain a trade. They don't have to accept it...they wanted to hear offers.
It doesn't have anything to do with any good ole boy network either. Nobody made the skins offer those picks....they did it themselves.
RGII is the hot commodity with luck all but gone to the colts.
A bunch of teams need a qb...the media does a fine job with the hype....the draft guru's spend all day speculating who will go where.
Maybe we did make an offer...maybe we didn't....I can guarantee that if we did, that they will never admit it. Thats bad business. Its all but saying that you have no faith in the guy you will be starting.
We could have simply called and asked what type of picks they were looking for. The rams might have responded with something, or they might have said make an offer. Why say what you are looking for when for all you know the buyer might offer you more?
Its entirely possible that us doing our "due diligence" and inquiring is the reason that we can say nothing to refute it. Maybe we made a great offer, and the skins said they would better it, but its off the table unless its a done deal now....meaning no going back to the browns for more.
I can see your point if they out and out lied, but i doubt it came to that. Even if it did, if a trade with that team in the future benefits your team, you are still gonna pick up the phone....trades benefit both teams.
The skins wanted RGIII bad...they seem to want everyone bad, and spend like fools to get it...must be something in the water over there near D.C.
My point is that our name was out there...along with other teams...the rams had to do nothing but say, "we are going to take the best offer we get....and we expect some other teams to make offers" The skins could have asked if any other teams inquired about the pick. They could have responded that the browns called. Not that we made an offer....just called...
Now the price is set for the skins...they are in essence bidding against themselves...with time against them, for fear of someone else getting what they want.
I have no doubt that the rams wanted to move fast before the start of free agency too. Every team that gets a qb in free agency is one less that needed to trade. I'll bet they made that clear.
So the skins throw out a crazy deal, and the rams jump on it.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Exactly, but some people don't get it or have ZERO ethics. There was no lying, and if there was and Heck didn't protest, he's a punk.
I don't get it? But you do? I see...
You don't know any more than me when it comes to what goes on behind closed doors in the nfl. I'll tell you what....you can handle it. Feel free to be as bent out of shape as you want...
Have fun running the show...i could care less....I have no ethics too evidently.
Was there an out and out lie? I doubt it. There didn't need to be. There was demand for RGIII. All it takes is the perception of bidders. They could have said a ton of things without lying outright. Omission. Speculating. Saying they believe that a lot of teams are going to make offers. Saying they are going to act fast. Saying the browns did inquire. Saying they believe that the browns will make an offer.
I can guarantee that the skins "thought" that the browns were gonna make an offer. And nothing was gonna stand in the way of them getting what they wanted. If anything the rams were thrilled to have a team calling that are the kings of "i want it now".
Who cares? The browns aren't gonna call anyone out. You think heckert is a punk cause he didn't protest on national tv? What would be the point?
What's to protest? This is insane....honestly it really is.
The browns didn't get who you wanted. Get over it.
That don't make heckert a punk, and it doesn't make this front office stupid either.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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People can be thrilled as heck with plan B and plan C. I'm not.
That's because you're ASSUMING RG3 was our plan A. Maybe we liked him compared to the other QBs in the draft not named Luck so we made a passing attempt...but we weren't THAT enamored with him? It's possible ya know? Our offer has never been "officially" reported anywhere.
Personally I'm ECSTATIC he won't end up being our "plan A". If he WAS I'd have a lot less faith in this FO than I do now.
I swear half the people on this board are acting like the spoiled kid at Christmas who didn't get the toy they wanted over this RG3 thing. It's legit crazy.
Colt McCoy is a solid backup caliber QB in the NFL. Will we ever win a super bowl with him? My opinion is absolutely not. That being said, I only see 2 QBs in this draft who have the CHANCE to change that answer to a yes. Andrew Luck and Ryan Tannehill. We aren't getting Luck unfortunately (though I'd have traded our entire draft for him). We may or may not get Tannehill. Either way I think Colt is our starter for 1 more year. It sucks but it is what it is. I'd much rather have Colt for another year and build the team around him and/or whomever we might acquire in the future than waste all our picks on RG3.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Do we need a wide receiver? Yes. Should we reach for one just because he is the best wide receiver available? No.
I agree with this.
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If Blackmon was in last year's draft would you have drafted him ahead of A.J. Green or Julio Jones?
Ahead of Green is a toss up. Maybe. For our style I like Blackmon's fit better honestly. Ahead of Jones? Yes absolutely.
I don't see drafting Blackmon at #4 as a need based "reach" because I think he IS a #1 worthy NFL WR.
All that being said, any WR is only as good as his QB. So even if we draft Blackmon at #4 and end up rolling with McCoy for another year I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't put up eye-popping #s as a rookie.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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It's obvious plan A was RGIII. The others, I have no clue since I am not sure the goofs in Berea know what plan B is.
I'm sure they are evaluating a lot of options. I'm sure they know we need much better QB play to win consistently.
NRTU but somebody went off on the notion that we had a "small" investment in Colt because he was a 3rd round pick.. they said we also had 2 years invested in him... I would like to know what our other options were during those 2 years?
We could have sold out in 2010 for Bradford and rumor is that we tried... beyond that, Tebow? Clausen?
In 2011 who knows what we would have had to give up for Newton.. or Locker? Ponder? Gabbert? Dalton?
And who has been available in FA over the last couple years? Rex Grossman? Matt Leinart? DA?
The only QB we might have had for a reasonable price that looks like he might be that good is Dalton.... while I guess there is still a chance for Ponder, Locker and Gabbert... and it's not like any of them went into the NFL draft as a sure thing... People act like we don't have a stud QB yet because we don't want one... what other options have we had?
yebat' Putin
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and end up rolling with McCoy for another year I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't put up eye-popping #s as a rookie.
Little had 538 yards as a rookie with McCoy throwing him the ball. That is not eye-popping, but it is very respectable for a very raw player who was in his first year in this offense.
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Well Blackmon is certainly more polished and talented than Little so I'd expect better numbers than that if we draft him.
All I meant was to be prepared to hear "the sky is falling" and "this guys a bust" and "see we shouldn't have taken this bum" when he doesn't put up 1000 yards and 10 TD's his rookie year with Colt Frye throwing him the football.
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Actually I thought that Little had a decent year. I was very critical of the pick, and did not like drafting a player who got thrown off his team for breaking the rules, and who sat out a year. He proved me wrong to an extent, and I hope that continues.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No news on the Ben Tate front? Last I heard we were at a third rd pick. If we get him, Tannehill will be the pick. Best WR@22. Wont make alot of folks happy but I'm feeling strong thats their guy. I also think there'll be calls to us from others wanting the guy.
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NRTU but somebody went off on the notion that we had a "small" investment in Colt because he was a 3rd round pick.. they said we also had 2 years invested in him... I would like to know what our other options were during those 2 years?
We could have sold out in 2010 for Bradford and rumor is that we tried... beyond that, Tebow? Clausen?
In 2011 who knows what we would have had to give up for Newton.. or Locker? Ponder? Gabbert? Dalton?
And who has been available in FA over the last couple years? Rex Grossman? Matt Leinart? DA?
The only QB we might have had for a reasonable price that looks like he might be that good is Dalton.... while I guess there is still a chance for Ponder, Locker and Gabbert... and it's not like any of them went into the NFL draft as a sure thing... People act like we don't have a stud QB yet because we don't want one... what other options have we had?
These are great points, DC. When you look at it objectively like this, there really aren't a whole lot of things the Browns could have done differently. It could very well be that the Browns thought highly of Luck and RGIII. It seems they made a play for RGIII, but didn't get the pick. That doesn't mean they don't already have their eye on someone else in this draft (Tannehill/Weeden) or next. I'd rather they get the right QB than just get a QB.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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It seems they made a play for RGIII
...Do you have any evidence to back up this statement?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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...Do you have any evidence to back up this statement?
No, and I'm not getting into one of the many peeing matches over it, either. I said "seems", I didn't say it was a fact. If that's all you got out of my post, oh well.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Quote:
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...Do you have any evidence to back up this statement?
No, and I'm not getting into one of the many peeing matches over it, either. I said "seems", I didn't say it was a fact. If that's all you got out of my post, oh well.
I know... That's why I was mocking them... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I know... That's why I was mocking them...
Oops! My bad! The funny thing is, while saying I wasn't getting into a peeing match, I almost got into one! 
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Was talking about it in the other thread but all the signs point to Tannehill. I realy think the best value at 22 in Heckert's eyes will be Cordy Glenn or one of those corners Gilmore, Jenkins or Kirkpatrick.
Best value at 37 is definitely receivers. Alshon Jeffery and Sanu are steals here.
If we could get that quality RT in free agency, it would really change things.
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1st String
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Seriously Mourg, we all know you have an unhealthy infatuation with Tannehill, but there is no way we take him at #4. Heckert/Holmgren simply do not reach in the draft and the ONLY reason Tannehill could even be considered at 4 is due to a QB shortage, not talent (he isn't a #4 talent). Perhaps if we trade back we might take him, but at 4 there is no way (we likely go Claiborne/Richardson/Blackmon). The only "signs' pointing to us taking Tannehill at #4 are people speculating that because we bid on RGIII (and lost) and because Colt isn't likely a long term answer, that we will automatically take the next QB in line. That isn't how Heckert and Holmgren operate (thankfully). For as many holes/needs as we have, we don't have the luxury of reaching on a project with the #4 pick.
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A good post,very concise.
One question,nevermind.After a reread I figured it out.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I agree that Mourg is overstating things a bit. But, we could follow in the strange steps of JAX, Tenn, and Minny last year and over-draft our QB.
I think it will depend on what Miami does if we consider him at #4. If they sign Flynn, then who might draft Tannehill before #22?
Buffalo - possible, but Fitz is making good money and I think they'd try to make it work with him.
KC - again, Cassel is making good money. I think a better chance than Buffalo at drafting Tannehill though.
Seattle - well, Pete Carroll has tried bringing in a QB each year. and they run a WCO. so, it's definitely possible.
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If the guy is a success is it over drafting? Mo, Richardson or Blackmon would make me happy but I really think the scramble is gonna be on for Tannehill.
I think we sit pretty right now since the three mentioned above will should be on the board. Good trade op.
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I think that our best chance that Tannehill could fall to 22 is if Seattle signs Flynn and Miami signs Manning.
After that I think we might be looking at Drafting Weeden or another later.
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NRTU but somebody went off on the notion that we had a "small" investment in Colt because he was a 3rd round pick.. they said we also had 2 years invested in him... I would like to know what our other options were during those 2 years?
Never calling Jason Campbell an all-pro, He sure as Hell is better than McCoy, and with Campbell as the seat-warmer, which is what I always envisioned him being, we could have taken several guys who have more tools than McCoy in 2011.
Maybe Orton was available? I don't recall his situation in 2010.
The Vikings seem to be in love with Joe Webb.
There may have been other QB's around as well.
Hasselbeck was available this past year, and looked damned good against us.
Maybe Flynn was available. How about some of the "up and comers" from other teams? Holmgren made nobodies into somebodies at his other stops. He may have been able to do that here.
What would Kolb have done here? Or even Skelton?
The tough part about playing "what if" revolves around having no idea how well a guy would have done in one spot if an event in time did or did not happen.
IF Jason Campbell doesn't have his collarbone broken, the Raiders don't trade a 1st AND a second to the Bengals for Palmer who wouldn't be traded. Or would he? Can't say for sure.
So here's what we KNOW: McCoy cost us a 3rd round pick and two years invested. It's Homgren's job to get a QB. He picked McCoy, and he failed. Is it an easy job? Nope, but he's getting BIG money to sit in the BIG-BOY chair.
Holmgren is supposed to be the QB guru. It's his job to get a good guy. He didn't. He failed. The Browns don't have a QB because of it. They know it. They've tried to get RG3. They will try to get someone else. If they can't, they'll again have failed. The difficulty of it becomes an excuse, not a reason.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
The thing is...
As far as I know (correct me if I am wrong) Holmgren has never GOTTEN the guy...
He wasn't the GM in GB when they traded for Favre and drafted guys like Brunell and Hasselbeck...
He was the guy who brought Hasselbeck to Seattle, yes.
I think alot of people have put alot of stock into Holmgren as this guy who can shap QBs into HOFers...
When maybe, he's just been around ALOT of REALLY GOOD Quarterbacks...
I'm not saying he isn't a good HC... But I've never been too sure about him as a FO guy...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
He's been decidedly mediocre in that role.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
Quote:
Was talking about it in the other thread but all the signs point to Tannehill. I realy think the best value at 22 in Heckert's eyes will be Cordy Glenn or one of those corners Gilmore, Jenkins or Kirkpatrick.
Best value at 37 is definitely receivers. Alshon Jeffery and Sanu are steals here.
If we could get that quality RT in free agency, it would really change things.
Ashlon Jeffery is someone I don't want at all, not even later rounds
bottom line is, QB, WR, RB, if they don't fill at least 2 of those with the first 3 picks, then What is going on?
It can't be about best player available anymore because the offense on the Browns is so subpar.  I know Ingram, (defender) or Upshaw, (defender) are better " best player availables" than what I think they should get, ... except for LaMichael James.
I just don't want to see the Browns pass on lamichael james in the 1st round and go on to watch him score 14 td's a year for someone else.
Obviously, Blackmon is the best receiver in this draft, but the receivers behind him that could help the Browns, there's like 10 of them, if not 15, geesh, its crazy.
LaMichael James is a special player, I definetly think he's better than Trent Richardson, ( well any doubts I'd have were eaten up by seeing the Browns not get lashwan McCoy when so many were touting him and then seeing the stat line as he ran up all those touchdowns.
This Offense is lacking Playmakers, PERIOD It is easily the first, second, and third problem with the Browns losing all of their division games.
I know Tannehill can get the ball out in the flat over the top and to the oppisite sideline with strength and quick release, and that alone makes him better than McCoy.
That alone is something missing in Cleveland since at least DA .
What I really don't understand is the " were not interested in Flynn" comment.
I think you have to get the Quarterback, with the first overall pick. It's nobody's fault except that the Browns just don't have a quarterback who can win games, period.
Whether it's Tannehill, or Wheeden, or Ryan Lindley, or other , I don't know but I think you have to make sure that Colt McCoy is not the only option.
I don't care WHO you surround McCoy with, he just can't get the ball there.
The Quarterback touches the ball every play.
I really want to see what LaMichael James would, do to electrify this Browns offense. Bottom line is somebody's gonna suit this guy up and if he's scoring som many touchdowns.
Just look at it, He's a game changer, defenses have to watch out for him.
Sure I want to seee Justin Blackmon, not everybody , not every team gets that " great" wide receiver, but the pick would be wasted here if it meant sticking it out with mcCoy. Mccoy is not any better than Jeff Blake was and Blake couldn't win with 2 really good and experienced Wideouts, Darnay Scott and Carl Pickens.
There's a small chance your going to get a sleeper at WR sllide to pick 37 ,
Wheter Sanu, or Flloyd, or Wright, or if they like this Stephen Hill, or Reuben Randall., or even Nick toon or DeVier Posey in later rounds.
Or McNutt or that guy from Applachian state, or Others!
Hey a week ago, Cambpell, Orton, Flynn and RG3 were on the table, now they are off the table. So the Qb commodity stock price has risen.
So they have to get a Quarterback. NOt to be reactionary, but they have to get a Quarterback.
Not to be reactionary but they HAVE to get a quarterback.
Colt McCoy is not a top 40 Qb in the league anymore. Not after this next group of kids enter.
They can get the Offensive lineman in the later rounds,
They have no business using the top 3 picks in this draft on anything other than offensive skilled positions. There is just too much need.
Ben Watson cannot lead the team in receptions again. They have to find replacements for the Rod Windsors of the regular season roster spot.
A team with this makup of a roster has no business looking to draft offensive linemen in the top 3 rounds. or top 3 picks
NO MORE, Jordan Camerons, and Owen Marecic's, they have to take a chance, take multiple chances to get someone who can actually Score Points.
The NFL gives teams draft picks for a reason. So we don't have to watch them franchise tag a Kicker. 
Such a great defensive effort wasted last year because of such a TERRIBLE offense. 
They got , Cozy Colman, Ryan Tucker, Jon Greco, Ross Verba, and many other offensive linemen from places Outside of the draft.
They can't get anyone to come to cleveland as an offensive skilled position player outside of the draft, so they better start using them on them.
They have no Business using a 3rd on an also ran Rb in a trade.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,699 Likes: 675
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,699 Likes: 675 |
Wow Toad, we finally agree on something.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Pick #4
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