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Since we are now at 4 without a shot at a top 2 QB, I think I trade down.
There should be considerable interest in Blackmon and Clairborne. If the Vikes surprise everybody, maybe Kalil...check that, if they don't select him, they will trade down, so it's Blackmon and Claiborne on the board when we are on the clock. Both are nice players with Claiborne the better of the two IMO. I think he is the guy we take if we stay put, but I hope we drop a couple of slots, and knowing Heck, we may do what we did last year and drop down a bunch.
Some have said maybe we just go all in for our QB next year, and that is actually a good thought. The best way to get that done is to have another #1 in the pocket, giving us a shot at Barkley. Maybe the move is to drop in to the 20's, pick up a 2nd this year and a 1st next year and play it that way, just like we did last year.
If we did that we'd have 3 picks from say #20 to #37. One would think we could get at lest two out of the box starters in that range, and still have another 2nd rounder later in the round.
If you can't get the one stud, then making that 3-4 solid players is a nice consolation.
My guess is we still want a shot at a top QB, but it can't be this year, so you build through the draft and wait for the chances you have. To do that we get another 1st rounder for next year and wait. This also has another positive. It gives Colt his final shot. Maybe he makes it, probably he doesn't, but it does remove any doubt from peoples minds.
Yep, my guess is we drop pretty far back.
Any thoughts??
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I like the way you're thinking. I will just go ahead and figure Minny takes Kalil. So at 4 there are 2 (maybe 3) players that will draw interest. Blackmon and Claiborne definitely, maybe Richardson but that is more of a reach. I say we start paying attention to the calls. I am OK with dropping several spots as long as we are compensated, like last year. A 1st next year is a given, along with a #2 this year and more.
If we cannot move down, I take Claiborne and don't look back. But my strong preference is to trade back, get more picks and fill some holes.
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In a pass based league the idea of Mo N Joe makes me giddy!
However, and having nothing really to back this up other than league chatter,
I'm betting Ryan Tannehill is the target or we will get offers for others to move up to get him. He will not escape the top 10. I know it's not popular but I'd accept it.
I think he will be the #2 QB of this draft after Luck.
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I was hoping JAX would covet Blackmon, but they picked up Laurent Robinson for $7mil/year. They still might, but probably not desperate enough to get what we would want.
TB could fear us taking Claiborne. Or, we could take Claiborne and then call TB and tell them to make us an offer (and just keep him if we don't like it). Might be able to get a 3rd rounder out of them to move up a spot (a 2nd if special defensive asst. Butch Davis has a say!)
StL likely won't trade up with us as they already had their chance for our pick.
But, the team that I think is the most likely to really, really want to trade up with us is:
Miami Dolphins
They traded away Brandon Marshall for 2 3rd round picks.
They are likely to sign Matt Flynn.
They have a GB based coaching staff (Holmgren and staff still have ties and that always helps in trade negotiations)
They could want Blackmon really badly. Maybe enough to give us #8 + #41 + #73 (Chicago's 3rd rounder).
Stay @4: I'd take Claiborne or Blackmon and be happy.
Trade down to 8, I'd consider:
Reiff would settle our RT slot for years.
Richardson is the most complete back to come out in awhile
Floyd could be a good WR (has to stay healthy)
#gmstrong
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I think at some point you have to start taking blue chip players. We are lacking any real play makers and the constant dropping back and taking 'Ok" talent is fine for filling some of the holes, but to hope we hit gold at the key positions with latter picks is a lot riskier than taking a top talent at the spot you EARNED.. Thats why we pick 4.. we deserve and NEED to pick a stud. I'm not into hoping a stud QB is sitting there next year waiting for us to trade up and "mortgage the farm" for one player. It didn't work this year and it's a gamble to expect it next year.
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IMO we need to come away from this draft with an impact player. I say stay at 4 and take either Blackmon or Claiborne, whom ever they have rated higher. Don't reach for players and don't trade back unless someone is giving us a 1st next year also like the trade with did with ATL last year.
If we didn't find our QB reaching for one at 4 will be a mistake. Right now here are my senarios if I am the Browns:
Offensive Route
1a) Take Blackmon at 4, If Matt Flynn goes to Miami the next teams that need a QB are KC & SEA (Pick 11 and Pick 12). I'm calling Carolina at 9 and Buffalo at 10 and seeing what I can do to move up. If the Browns like Ryan Tannehill then see if #22 and #37 will be enough to move up over those teams. In the 3rd round I will be looking for a RT.From there I'm looking BPA
Mix
1b) Take Blackmon at 4, We don't have enough to get Tannehill or KC/SEA offers better with a higher first round pick. Then take a DE at #22, at #37 take BPA either @ WLB/S/RT/RB. BPA the rest of the draft.
Defensive Route
2) Take Claiborne at 4. At #22 look for a DE and at #37 look for a Saftey or WLB. 3rd round I'm still looking for a RT. From there I'm looking BPA
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I completely agree. I posted something comparable not too long ago. I think the best chance of us trading down would be for Claiborne. Quote:
The way I look at it is we probably have Blackmon and Claiborne as our top two guys at #4. Tampa's biggest needs are CB, OLB,and MLB. St. Louis needs WR, LT, DT, OLB, and CB. I'll go one further with Jacksonville...DT, CB, WR. (Buffalo at 10 and Dallas at 14 need CBs too) That's a lot of CB needs and we hold the cards. I can definitely see us trading down from #4. Though moving down to the 7-9 area scares me a little. At this point, if we trade, I'd be pulling for a flip flop with Tampa (for a 4th) to take whomever is left over or Dallas at 14 (for their 2013 #1) so they can take Claiborne.
Though, my thinking is exactly how I projected my mock a week ago. We take Claiborne, and Jacksonville jumps St Louis to take Blackmon at 5. And St Louis gets Reiff. A few weeks ago an article I read stated at least one team saw Reiff as better than Kalil, maybe it was St. Louis?
I'd backtrack on the Jax move up to 5 with the signing of Robinson, but we'll have several suitors for #4 if Claiborne is there, depending on the rest of FA. My preference would probably be Buffalo or Dallas and pick up a 1st next year, hopefully more. Then grab Reiff or Richardson at 10/14 then one of Glenn/Hill/Wright at 22.
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If we can pick up multiple top 40 or so picks, I'd be OK with it. We already have a ton of low round draft picks .... too many, really, for most of them to have a chance to make the team. Maybe we do the unthinkable and trade down with the Bengals for both of their 1st round picks.  Doubtful ..... but who knows? At this point I honestly have no clue what direction the team is going. They have said repeatedly that they like Colt McCoy, so maybe they stick with him and don't take a QB till the 3rd or so. Usually I have a feel for where the team might look ...... but they could really go any of 5 or 6 different directions this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Maybe we do the unthinkable and trade down with the Bengals for both of their 1st round picks. Doubtful ..... but who knows?
Yeah, I wanted to think they'd give that up to take Richardson ahead of Tampa, but IIRC they need two OGs and their picks are prime DeCastro/Glenn territory.
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Peen I think the lynchpin to the whole thing is what the FO thinks of Ryan Tannehill. If they truely believe that he is a future star then I think we will take him, hopefully we can trade back a little and still take him since most are in agreement that Tannehill at 4 is a bit much... If they view him as just the next best QB who has upside potential, then I hope we pass and either go Blackmon at 4 or trade back with some specific target in mind.
I will pat myself on the back because I think I was the first, months ago, to bring up the scenario where we use some of this years picks to get some quality players but also leverage a first round pick for next year so we do have some ammo to move up if the QB situation is still not resolved by the end of this year.
I'm sure Claiborn will be a real nice corner and it would be nice to have bookends like that in the secondary, I'm just not sure that a team that scores a pathetic amount of points can afford to go defense at 4. If you are going to give Colt another year and you don't get him a weapon or two at WR/RB/RT then we are in for the same fight next year.. It's Colt's fault.. No he still doesn't have anything to work with... blahblahblah...
I agree with your premise that adding 3 or 4 good players and a 1st next year is as good or better than adding one stud this year (at any position other than QB) and a couple other good players even though we desperately need a couple studs.
Again, the key is Tannehill and what H&H think of him... and by now most people know my position on the QB spot.. either go get the guy you think will start for 12 years or give the ball to McCoy again.. doing anything in between just doesn't make sense to me.
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I like Blackmon and I think he makes a difference on this team. That being said, I'd have absolutely no problem with us taking Claiborne at 4, assuming we think he's going to be another shutdown corner.
I think if we take Claiborne, TB is going to field mad calls about a trade ahead of the Rams. If we take Blackmon, TB takes Claiborne. Hopefully then St. Louis cries a lot because they didn't trade with us.
But, I would also be listening to trade calls myself. I wouldn't want to drop out of the top 10 as I'd want to pick up Richardson (assuming we don't sign a starting RB between now and then).
I don't think Tannehill is on our radar for our first pick. I think if he's at 22 we take him, and if we trade out of the top 10, maybe we take him. For some reason, though, and I have no idea if it's a good or bad idea, but I think we're looking at Weeden at 37 (the pick number, not his age).
I could almost see us going Blackmon at 4, someone else at 22 (haven't paid enough attention to that slot to know who's good there), and then Weeden at 37.
Then again, I'm usually wrong.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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The Walsh tree just doesn't take WRs that early. I think Green was a strong consideration but again, we might have still traded down.
Tannehill is the perfect fit for this system. Tannehill at 12 to seattle is not a reach. Tannehill at 8 to the Dolphins is not a reach, now a few guys even talking about trading up to get him. When the Skins were sitting at 6, Tannehill was there guy and it wasn't a reach. We sit at 4 and wow what a reach.
It was just like saying Trent Richardson should not be drafted top 10 but if the Browns don't get RG3 they will take Richardson. That bothers me.
my bad meant receivers there instead of quarterbacks lol no sleep last night got to look over me
Last edited by Mourgrym; 03/15/12 11:19 AM.
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Quote:
Tannehill is the perfect fit for this system.
I disagree. But, he has a background in it though, which is a positive.
Quote:
Tannehill at 12 to seattle is not a reach. Tannehill at 8 to the Dolphins is not a reach,
Completely disagree. I think Tannehill in the 1st round is a reach no matter which team it is picking him.
Quote:
now a few guys even talking about trading up to get him.
well, the Rams/Redskins messed with all the mock draft writers because they thought they had filler articles until draft day. they had to come up with something to get page clicks. QB trades drive page clicks as we know.
Quote:
When the Skins were sitting at 6, Tannehill was there guy and it wasn't a reach. We sit at 4 and wow what a reach.
Tannehill obviously was not the "Skins guy" as they a boatload of picks to make sure they did not have to draft him. If they had Tannehill rated anywhere near RGIII, then they are fools as he would have fallen in their laps had they let us "win" the RGIII sweepstakes.
Last edited by no_logo_required; 03/15/12 12:09 PM.
#gmstrong
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I may not know what I'm talking about, but Blackmon feels more like a Julio Jones. Meaning he feels like that stud SECOND presence you get when you already have a Roddy White.
I'd love to get someone who covets the #4 pick and trade down. If not, take Claiborne and plan c would be Blackmon . . .
I won't get into who to take if we trade down.
I'll end w/ NO TANNEHILL AT PICK 4 . . . Can't repeat it enough.
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Quote:
I may not know what I'm talking about, but Blackmon feels more like a Julio Jones. Meaning he feels like that stud SECOND presence you get when you already have a Roddy White.
I'd love to get someone who covets the #4 pick and trade down. If not, take Claiborne and plan c would be Blackmon . . .
I won't get into who to take if we trade down.
I'll end w/ NO TANNEHILL AT PICK 4 . . . Can't repeat it enough.
I can agree with this, though I do think Blackmon can be a good no. 1. But, like I said, taking Claiborne wouldn't be the offensive playmaker we need, but I think it would make our team better as a whole.
And I'm with you on no Tannehill at 4.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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In the end that is why I see a trade down. I just don't see the value in tannehill at #4 even though i like him.
Everything points to the team knowing the chances are real good we need a QB. It's why we were in the RGIII sweepstakes.
I suppose it's possible we do want Tannehill. I still see a trade if we do, even it is just 1-2 slots. But in the end, we look to drop back in the teens/early 20's. At that point we can get Wright and have another pick in the second round(and a 1st next year)
One would assume we will improve some over last season by at least a game, so chances are we are picking around 8-10 next year. This RGIII deal sort of set the bar, so if we are hoping to get back up to 1-2 in the draft for a top QB, we are going to have to give up similar numbers as did the Skins.
It's imperative we have two picks next year. One, it is a good hand to hold, and it doesn't string out the lack of 1st round picks more than one season. I think that's real important. Going two years in a row without a first rounder is a tough pill to swallow IMO.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Take Blackmon with the 4th pick and then trade up to get Richardson. That would make me happy and immediately give us two playmakers on offense. Couldn't get a QB so put some pieces around McCoy with a full offseason and I would bet we are in the hunt this season. JMHO
As far as the terms of trading up.....I'll let the draft gurus figure that out.
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I have to agree with trading down. We still have way to many holes to fill on this team right now.
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I'm thinking we're sticking with Colt and selecting Blackmon with the 4, RT with the number 22.
The only thing that should change that is if Blackmon is gone, then quite possibly Kalil. And we'll look for our WR at 22.
These are our two biggest needs and we aren't satisfying them via FA.
The only thing throwing a bone into this plan is if Tannehill is there at 22. There, we might select him. And we'll choose the other of those positions with our 2nd round pick.
But yeah, no FA WR makes me think that we're going WR early in the draft
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Quote:
I have to agree with trading down. We still have way to many holes to fill on this team right now.
I don't disagree that we have holes to fill but when do we stop filling holes with "nice players" and find a real threat, a real playmaker?
Would we be better if we added another Alex Mack quality guy to the OL? Probably... what if we added another TJ Ward to the secondary? Probably... or another Sheard to our pass rush? Probably... or another Little to our WR corps? Probably... but does any of that make us THAT MUCH better? Does it cause other coaches to say "Wow, we have to look out for THAT GUY when we play the Browns!"... no, it doesn't.. So go get 3 or 4 more nice players and we can go from being a 4 win team to a 7 win team and move us back just far enough that it's really difficult for us to go after a stud in the future...
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that's some good thinking there Peen...  Still, I wouldn't be upset at all with Claiborn at 4 if thats what ends up happening......
#GMSTRONG
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I say we take Blackmon... I'm more with the logic that yes Claiborne is good.. but you can get a guy like Minnifield in the 3rd round, who also has great ball hawking ability.
Not to mention allowing TB to get Claiborne would put a lil pressure on their new signee Eric Wright to produce.. lol. He didn't work well under pressure here when we picked up Haden.
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The money we gave Patterson, says we might not be thinking Claiborne. Money we gave Rucker says starting DE.
I would be shocked to see a WR taken top 5 with this regime unless he just totally blew them away in every way.
Soo probably Trade down or Tannehill especially if we are trying to get Tate.
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Quote:
The money we gave Patterson, says we might not be thinking Claiborne. Money we gave Rucker says starting DE.
I would be shocked to see a WR taken top 5 with this regime unless he just totally blew them away in every way.
Soo probably Trade down or Tannehill especially if we are trying to get Tate.
yea... Rucker will be starting unfortunately.. so getting Mercilus, or Curry is out the window now..
That first pick is gonna be offense... Blackmon or Richardson.. and I wouldn't be too shocked if we got a lineman with one of the next two picks after that.
I'm thinking we add a RB, WR, and Tackle within the first three rounds and try to fix the offense w/ one strong blow this year. If Colt doesn't work out, we should be able to plug and play a QB so that he'll have some talent around him.
I really like the sound of having Blackmon and Little at WR though. Sounds very very nice.
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Or... a trade down to the middle of the round and we start looking at OLB's that can actually cover a TE.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Sounds very very nice.
I disagree. The way those guys play, I think it sounds very very mean. I keep thinking about one of the catches Blackmon made in the Fiesta Bowl. I want to say it was a 4th and short.
He ran a quick slant and Weeden threw him a nice ball. He reached out and snagged that ball and it looked like it was the type of catch where he had his teeth clenched and through his mind went "give me that gosh darn ball so I can make a play and hurt some people." He then broke a few tackles and stiff-armed a DB to the point that I felt bad for the poor guy.
With him on one side and Little on the other, we might be knocking out some DBs. I could handle that. 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
With him on one side and Little on the other, we might be knocking out some DBs. I could handle that.
man... i love it!! 
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I would not get that excited over Blackmon ...... or anyone at this point.
However, since we let Hillis walk and evidently have no plans to replace him via trade or free agency ...... it would not surprise me to see Richardson as our pick.
But .... who the hell knows at this point.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I would not get that excited over Blackmon ...... or anyone at this point.
However, since we let Hillis walk and evidently have no plans to replace him via trade or free agency ...... it would not surprise me to see Richardson as our pick.
But .... who the hell knows at this point.
Good point. I should probably just go lock myself in a dark room. 
In the end, I agree with 'Peen. I think we see trade down.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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He looks pretty good... reminds me a bit of Braylon without the dropsies.
Weeden is wholly unimpressive in that video, however. This being all that I've seen of him, I wouldn't go near him before the 5th round.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Watching a couple Okla. St. games, there were times when I thought "man, Weeden is amazing!" and then, 2 minutes later, thinking "man, Weeden is awful!" So, to me, he's no earlier than a 3rd rounder. Now, if he's sitting there and we have no other feelers on QBs, then I think we take him. But, we don't take him with the thought that he's the savior. We take him with the thought that, if he gets in, he'd better prove he's the guy or we'll just pick someone next year.
And, that's only if someone at a greater position of need isn't there.
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He strikes me as a guy you take to groom as a backup, and if by magic he improves to be more than that, great... but don't expect it or bank on it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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J/C
I'd love to get both Blackmon AND Richardson. That would be a pretty hefty haul early in the draft.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Quote:
J/C
I'd love to get both Blackmon AND Richardson. That would be a pretty hefty haul early in the draft.
Our offense would definitely improve, but I'm guessing we'd have to give up draft picks that we would have used as ammo to upgrade the QB position (should it be necessary in next year's draft).
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Granted, I have not watched him play, but nevertheless, the idea of Richardson (or a high investment in any RB) just does nothing for me. I think that we can grab a later round RB and be fine.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Hall of Famer
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I don't think we're out of drafting a DE at 22 or 37 or in the 3rd....we can get a pretty good (and cheap) pass rush 1st RDE at those spots who shares playing time with Rucker...we need 3 decent DEs anyway for a solid rotation and depth...right now we have 2, so we're still missing 1
Agree though that it'll be Tannehill or trade down (preferably both) right now...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Dawg Talker
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This is what I'm thinking as of today and as always is subject to change. I think Hecks going to take the Chains off this year and go and get em. Don't fool yourselves, landing 2 of the top six players in this draft and on the offensive side of the ball would be huge and exciting and a shot in the arm for this organization at a perfect time. With a year in and some Rooks that got solid playing time last year with the addition of Childress would be night and day watching next year.
Blackmon- I see no way around not getting the best receiver in the draft and the Brown's were blown out of the water by his pro day. They like him better than Julio Jones from last year. They would love to slide down and take him, that just won't happen. We need to watch out for St.Louis trying to slide into the three to get Blackmon because we would be screwed and throw off our whole draft. We can get away with what we have at CB but I don't think you can go into the season without a top flight receiver again. You can talk Floyd or Wright, but they are not on the same level as Blackmon. I have to believe he is the heavily favored target as of today.
Something tells me that Pinkston will be moving to right Tackle and possibly moving Greco into the starting spot and maybe flopping sides with Luavo.
They Promised Rucker he would be the Starter and get more playing time was what made him sign here, so I don't see us drafting a DE or RT in the first 2 rounds.
I hope they sign Hawthorne because that would allow us to be flexible in the draft and He is a good solid player.
If that is the way they are planning to address the OL, DE, OLB position, I think this is how our draft will go.
4.)Blackmon
22/37.) Move up for Richardson.
If Heckert sees a guy falling he likes or one of the QB's, He can package the 3rd and one of the 4th picks to move into the second I believe. I think McCoy will be given this year and put play makers in place to either help him be the guy or be staples for a top of the draft QB next year. All the extra picks will be used for depth, but two more possibly three day 1 starters out of this draft.
QB-McCoy
RB-Richardson
WR-Blackmon
WR-Little
LT-Joe Thomas
LG-Greco/Luavo
C-Mack
RG-Luavo/Greco
RT-Pinkston
FB-Marecic
TE-Evan Moore/Alex Smith/Watson.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 03/15/12 02:14 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Only 2 positions that are incredibly hard to fill outside the top 10. QB and LT
Lamichael James, Isiah Pead or Turbin in the 3rd is an immediate starter. Thats just the 3rd round guys. Probably 4 more going in the 2nd.
WR I would be just as happy with Sanu, Jeffery or even a Dwight Jones as I would be with Blackmon or Floyd. Hell a Jordan white or Brian Broyles in the 4th or 5th would look good on this roster.
RT can be had anywhere in the draft just have to have an eye for it.
DE for this scheme can find some good ones 2-4. See Sheard last year and there will be guys like curry and Massaquoi in the 2nd and 3rd this year.
Corners are found all over. Almost always a couple of guys that were injured that slips on draft day.
I dont believe in 1st round linebackers so lots of those guys around in 2-4.
Never take a guard or center in the first.
If you have your QB and LT then its best player but top 10 QB and LT come first above all else.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
I like Blackmon and I think he makes a difference on this team. That being said, I'd have absolutely no problem with us taking Claiborne at 4, assuming we think he's going to be another shutdown corner.
I think if we take Claiborne, TB is going to field mad calls about a trade ahead of the Rams. If we take Blackmon, TB takes Claiborne. Hopefully then St. Louis cries a lot because they didn't trade with us.
But, I would also be listening to trade calls myself. I wouldn't want to drop out of the top 10 as I'd want to pick up Richardson (assuming we don't sign a starting RB between now and then).
I don't think Tannehill is on our radar for our first pick. I think if he's at 22 we take him, and if we trade out of the top 10, maybe we take him. For some reason, though, and I have no idea if it's a good or bad idea, but I think we're looking at Weeden at 37 (the pick number, not his age).
I could almost see us going Blackmon at 4, someone else at 22 (haven't paid enough attention to that slot to know who's good there), and then Weeden at 37.
Then again, I'm usually wrong.
I'm usually wrong as well, so this take makes perfect sense to me.
#GMSTRONG
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Back to the drawing board, what's
the move??
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