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Folks, fairly new here to actual posting, so please excuse this future exercise in putting thought processes to paper and/or keyboard. This is more one man's thoughts regarding the current state of our franchise. I have just recently moved to Wisconsin from the Akron area, so I haven't had the closest coverage lately of the team that I normally do given the complexities of moving, starting a new job etc. First off, I am not trying to start a take sides thread, because honestly, I don't know that there is a side to take. I'm trying to wrap my mind and emotions around what is currently going on with this franchise and I am somewhat perplexed. A little history on me: I never wanted to let Mangini go and thought it was moronic that Walrus couldn't find a way to make things work out with a guy who got Cleveland football. Nevertheless, water under the bridge at this point. Last year may have been a low point for me as a Browns fan. I certainly wasn't expecting to win, but what we witnessed throughout the year (a team that scored one more point than 1999) was an abortion. Patty Shurms was putrid, but we knew that coming in he was going to have growing pains because, yep, he had no experience. Saddling him with the offensive coordinator and play calling duties was a recipe for disaster from the get go. The guy's face was firmly entrenched in that plastic playsheet the majority of the time, so much so that he rarely even knew his personnel on the field at certain times--important times. We witnessed a team that couldn't scheme adjust, didn't stretch the field early enough in games, didn't utilize Hillis at times when he was healthy, continued to run Greg Little out there play after play, didn't realize that NoMoreMass please just sucks, still didn't fully utilize Cribbs, has TE's that are slow slot guys and can't/won't block..............need I go on--cuz I could? I was fine with letting Vickers walk, but to use a valuable fourth on a FB that wasn't as good as freebie Tyler Clutts in camp was nonsense, along with possibly reaching for an Evan Moore clone in Cameron---another TE who can't block. Whatever happened with letting Seeley go to San Fran should have been avoided at whatever cost but again, water under the bridge. I pretty much lost it last year and let it known how I felt regarding the ineptitude of Walrus and his cast of agent sharing drinking buddies. WTF is Gil/Eddie Haskell doing? What did Fritz's nephew have on his resume that was enough to be an upgrade over Mangini? A WCO playbook? This stuff didn't tick me off as much as the overall attitude pervaded by Holmgren that basically said "blow me biatches, I am the Walrus, you are the Egg Man." It was at this point when Mikey and Company needed a little wake up call and they got it. This is Cleveland, not Seattle, and we mean business here. We are football, and we have sucked beyond suck for way too long and it needs to change----get that Fat Man? You told us the guy who was getting excitement going here again by beating the New Englands, the New Orleans etc after gutting things, wasn't good enough for us. Now you're telling us everything is going to be fine as we watch your handpicked guy get our young QB killed and the special teams can't execute normal plays---heck, the defense couldn't even get out of the huddle. So here we are now. I have attempted to wipe last season from my memory, but as you can see, it still lingers. Moving forward, I have tried to gain new faith in these guys and Heck's ability to build this thing the right way. Let's face it, many of us old schoolers know what it takes to build things using the right template, and it isn't no overnight process. It is one of the reasons I am content to stick with Colt, I still see a kid who is a winner that can win in this league with some freaking help, and I didn't feel like saying freaking. The cost effect for a starting third round QB would be huge for this team to invest in so many other areas for upgrades. The line I just typed will get quoted by someone and will be the only thing they respond to in this entire rambling, but before you do it, remember, I get what having a good QB means. I still happen to think the kid can play. Truth be known, he is more of a pro set QB that got categorized as WCO because of his size and perceived light arm. He is more of the play making Big Ben type, and that is where he showed the most promise under Mangini. Now, that doesn't mean he can't learn the WCO, but it will take a minute and a full off season, some weapons, some upgrades etc. Another words, typical development time for a young QB--OMG, imagine that concept!!!! I guess I understand the Steiny cut, and he still may end up resigning yet. The guy was steady for us for years and was huge in the development of both JT and Mack, yet supposed experts on message boards everywhere constantly panned the guy the last few years. Think Fujita fan treatment, but Steiny actually could play hurt. We spent all last season developing Pinky there, and he did improve with his blitz pickups as the year went on, but Steiny's injury really hurt Colt early on. A full season of evaluation on Lauvao left us still wondering if he can sustain as the starter effectively. We do know that he is stupid, that can't be refuted if you watch the games. We can certainly hope that he gets less stupid, but he will still be stupid. I got news for the Pashos haters, the glass man was the only viable starter we had at RT when he didn't have the sniffles. What we had to witness with Cousins and Hicks was not only scary, but slightly horrifying--ask Colt. Bottom line on this rant: We are down two less vet lineman starters but saving coin and cap. Good or bad? Guess it depends on the replacements. I have wanted to draft a stud RT for the last few years, so there is no better time than now--especially because we ahem, have the picks left to do it thanks to the Danald. Perhaps a nice vet swingman for the inside besides Greco? I still can't logically fathom letting Hillis walk. Regardless what went down, he was still a viable starter that now requires us to expend resources on another back somehow. I am not feeling Hardesty at this point, and I loved him coming in. We will see if he indeed pulls the 'second year back he's better after the ACL' card, but I am not holding my breath there nor should you. BJax is coming off a substantial injury himself and is not a starting caliber back anyway, he is a situational guy. Folks, as of right now, I think Armond Smith is our most talented back followed by Colt's buddy Obi. Seriously! We went from a perceived strength at TE to being devoid of actual TE's. Watson is back to being hurt often and has the concussion issues. After that, we got our assigned James Harrison blocker Alex Smith---who gets blown up by the Roid Monk---and two entirely soft slot guys listed as TE's. This is now a weakness. Receiver.......may as well draft Blackmon, the kid can play. I think Heck believes he can get his WR's later in this deep draft for them and get better value if we stay at four. Some of yinz folks might not like this, but another trade down is definitely a possibility. Forget the FA stud coming here, it simply isn't happening and why overpay? This gets to my point, I guess. This whole process of building slowly through the draft, not doing anything crazy, not overspending to make a big splash in FA etc makes sense, but at what cost? There are some fans and some media that are beginning to lose their minds because these guys are not playing the paper champions game. I am on the fence with it, because as much as I want to trust, I still have that icky feeling that I am getting hosed again here by inept management. There is still no sense of urgency, and although we don't want to go all Phillip Savage and play glorified Fantasy Football, the perception around the league seems to be we don't want to win. If we are giving this overall attitude off, it is going to continue to hurt us down the line when we really do want to make some moves to put us over the top. Thoughts? Opinions? Mad you actually read all this gibberish?? Freaken newbs...... 
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Another Mangini-McCoy apologist scapegoating this FO.....NEXT !
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
Another Mangini-McCoy apologist scapegoating this FO.....NEXT !
Django old buddy, I won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Especially not after great insight like you just provided. NEXT!!!!
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Welcome to the board, you will find many that will agree with you. I am not one. I hope you have a license to start this whinery  .
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Color me a guy who doesn't have much faith in the H&H regime, but is glad we let Mangini go. It was a year too late if you ask me. The guy was a dud and a loser, and his stint at pretending to be Bill Belichick is a huge reason why we're in the hole we're in. I understand Holmgren giving him a shot, but he should've been tossed once the new regime came in.
As for McCoy ... I don't see him being anything other than a back-up in this league. A good one, possibly, but a back-up nonetheless.
You might want to edit the first sentence of your fifth paragraph before the refs remove your post.
Welcome to the boards.
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Whinery is correct!!!! Just ask YT about his feelings on the matter. But I do have to agree with you on the QB issue. Colt is a winner and a leader. That is what you want in a QB. Now, does he have the physical ability to make all the throws... YES!!! Something BradyQ couldn't do but half the people on this board stuck by him 2000% and ironically enough most of those ppl are the Colt haters.
The only question left to ask about Colt is his mental ability. I think the jury is still out on this one. IDK what makes ppl think that a rookie can switch coaches, switch offensive schemes, with no off-season, no OTA's and succeed. Give the guy a chance.... and some WEAPONS. And add a RT instead of a turnstile and he may progress just fine. RG3 would of been nice, but he not coming. Tannehill.... please oh please do not draft him. Especially not in the first round. He is raw, inexperienced, and needs a good year or 2 sitting. Remember the last QB from the same school who set all the records and lit it up???? He didn't even make the practice squad. So I don't know what makes ppl think this kid is our saviour. I think we better off with drafting Osweiller, Cousins, or Kellum Moore(Another pure winner/leader) in the later rounds.
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Nice.
Why did you feel it necessary to bring my name into this? Do I talk about you?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Colt Checked down so often that he ran out of targets and when the game was on the line he checked down to his center. My favorite checkdowns though was the on 3rd and 4th downs back to back with game on the line and less than a minute to go. he threw one behind the line of scrimmage and the other 2 yards beyond while needing 15 yards for a first.
Guy throws a pick trying to make a play to win the game, win some lose some. Afraid to go downfield in those situations, stat whoring.
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I have long held the opinion that great QBs are usually guys who have to be reined in early in their careers. They are so incredibly confident in their ability to make any throw at any time that they have to learn caution, because they won't get away with every throw they got away with in college.
Guys like Frye, Quinn, and McCoy are the opposite. They are very, very careful, cautious QBs. They rarely take chances at all. They play like they are afraid to make a mistake. It is much harder to get a guy like that to open up and take a calculated chance now and then that the opposite. These type of guys want to see receivers "all the way" open before they throw. They want to be able to throw the pass into the receivers body, even if the throw/route would call for the pass to be out in front. While caution is a valuable quality in a QB, it can go to extremes, and in guys like these, I think it has.
This is my fear with Tannehill. (although he does appear to hit a moving target better than the other 3 guys I mentioned) Still, he is a very careful, cautious QB, who might be so to an extreme. According to a couple of things I have seen on our version of the WCO, there is usually a deep pass in the progression and that read jumps to #1 against man coverage. We saw a ton of man coverage on the outside last year, yet few throws deep against man. Supposedly A&M ran a similar branch of the WCO, yet there were few throws deep down the field. Either they exclusively faced zone, which throws to moving targets would contradict because a receiver would settle into an open area against zone, or the QB chose to ignore that hot read when facing man.
I may have to go back and re-watch some of his tape just to make sure if what I remember with regards to this is what actually was. Have you looked at him from that standpoint at all? I'm curious, because I really never paid that, that much attention to that aspect of things.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Welcome aboard. Look ahead, friend. Can't score points for last season now. This process will crazy us all up. Have some fun posting. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Never saw him afraid to challenge the defense but he really stuck to the WCO theme for the most part in hitting the slants, drags, 7 yard out routes and those WR screens.
I thought he got a bum rap on the deepball simply because his receivers really had a tough time picking up the ball in flight. (they werent much better in picking up the short stuff either) These early scouts had Fuller way overrated. Heck most had him end of the 1st to mid 2nd round and after his workouts has fallen to a 5th to 6th round prospect.
Qb has to know how to use his receivers.
One big advantage both weeden and Griffin had was receivers that knew how to run under the ball. Look at what happened to Landry Jones when he lost the one guy that would go get it. RG3 took full advatage of Kenny Wright's ability to basket catch everything in front of him. Weeden however just kinda hurled it in the direction of the receiver and let Blackmon fight off the 3 defenders to get the ball. Tannehill really didnt have that guy.
I emphatically agree on QBs with the right mindset. You can't have a QB afraid to make the big play.
Hell we surrounded Colt with guys that would go up and get the ball but he rarely took that shot and when he did it was most often underthrown.
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Welcome to the board .. Never was big on Mangini , not thrilled with H & H so far .. This is a big draft for the Homie regime .. Oh yea , DJ. has become the board appointed apologist for Heckert and Co. 
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Quote:
First off, I am not trying to start a take sides thread, because honestly, I don't know that there is a side to take. I'm trying to wrap my mind and emotions around what is currently going on with this franchise and I am somewhat perplexed. A little history on me: I never wanted to let Mangini go and thought it was moronic that Walrus couldn't find a way to make things work out with a guy who got Cleveland football. Nevertheless, water under the bridge at this point.
Last year may have been a low point for me as a Browns fan. I certainly wasn't expecting to win, but what we witnessed throughout the year (a team that scored one more point than 1999) was an abortion. Patty Shurms was putrid, but we knew that coming in he was going to have growing pains because, yep, he had no experience. Saddling him with the offensive coordinator and play calling duties was a recipe for disaster from the get go. The guy's face was firmly entrenched in that plastic playsheet the majority of the time, so much so that he rarely even knew his personnel on the field at certain times--important times.
We witnessed a team that couldn't scheme adjust, didn't stretch the field early enough in games, didn't utilize Hillis at times when he was healthy, continued to run Greg Little out there play after play, didn't realize that NoMoreMass please just sucks, still didn't fully utilize Cribbs, has TE's that are slow slot guys and can't/won't block..............need I go on--cuz I could?
I was fine with letting Vickers walk, but to use a valuable fourth on a FB that wasn't as good as freebie Tyler Clutts in camp was nonsense, along with possibly reaching for an Evan Moore clone in Cameron---another TE who can't block. Whatever happened with letting Seeley go to San Fran should have been avoided at whatever cost but again, water under the bridge. I pretty much lost it last year and let it known how I felt regarding the ineptitude of Walrus and his cast of agent sharing drinking buddies. WTF is Gil/Eddie Haskell doing? What did Fritz's nephew have on his resume that was enough to be an upgrade over Mangini? A WCO playbook?
This stuff didn't tick me off as much as the overall attitude pervaded by Holmgren that basically said "blow me biatches, I am the Walrus, you are the Egg Man." It was at this point when Mikey and Company needed a little wake up call and they got it. This is Cleveland, not Seattle, and we mean business here. We are football, and we have sucked beyond suck for way too long and it needs to change----get that Fat Man? You told us the guy who was getting excitement going here again by beating the New Englands, the New Orleans etc after gutting things, wasn't good enough for us. Now you're telling us everything is going to be fine as we watch your handpicked guy get our young QB killed and the special teams can't execute normal plays---heck, the defense couldn't even get out of the huddle.
So here we are now. I have attempted to wipe last season from my memory, but as you can see, it still lingers. Moving forward, I have tried to gain new faith in these guys and Heck's ability to build this thing the right way. Let's face it, many of us old schoolers know what it takes to build things using the right template, and it isn't no overnight process. It is one of the reasons I am content to stick with Colt, I still see a kid who is a winner that can win in this league with some freaking help, and I didn't feel like saying freaking. The cost effect for a starting third round QB would be huge for this team to invest in so many other areas for upgrades. The line I just typed will get quoted by someone and will be the only thing they respond to in this entire rambling, but before you do it, remember, I get what having a good QB means. I still happen to think the kid can play. Truth be known, he is more of a pro set QB that got categorized as WCO because of his size and perceived light arm. He is more of the play making Big Ben type, and that is where he showed the most promise under Mangini. Now, that doesn't mean he can't learn the WCO, but it will take a minute and a full off season, some weapons, some upgrades etc. Another words, typical development time for a young QB--OMG, imagine that concept!!!!
I guess I understand the Steiny cut, and he still may end up resigning yet. The guy was steady for us for years and was huge in the development of both JT and Mack, yet supposed experts on message boards everywhere constantly panned the guy the last few years. Think Fujita fan treatment, but Steiny actually could play hurt. We spent all last season developing Pinky there, and he did improve with his blitz pickups as the year went on, but Steiny's injury really hurt Colt early on.
A full season of evaluation on Lauvao left us still wondering if he can sustain as the starter effectively. We do know that he is stupid, that can't be refuted if you watch the games. We can certainly hope that he gets less stupid, but he will still be stupid. I got news for the Pashos haters, the glass man was the only viable starter we had at RT when he didn't have the sniffles. What we had to witness with Cousins and Hicks was not only scary, but slightly horrifying--ask Colt. Bottom line on this rant: We are down two less vet lineman starters but saving coin and cap. Good or bad? Guess it depends on the replacements. I have wanted to draft a stud RT for the last few years, so there is no better time than now--especially because we ahem, have the picks left to do it thanks to the Danald. Perhaps a nice vet swingman for the inside besides Greco?
I think Armond Smith is our most talented back followed by Colt's buddy Obi. Seriously!
We went from a perceived strength at TE to being devoid of actual TE's. Watson is back to being hurt often and has the concussion issues. After that, we got our assigned James Harrison blocker Alex Smith---who gets blown up by the Roid Monk---and two entirely soft slot guys listed as TE's. This is now a weakness.
Receiver.......may as well draft Blackmon, the kid can play. I think Heck believes he can get his WR's later in this deep draft for them and get better value if we stay at four. Some of yinz folks might not like this, but another trade down is definitely a possibility. Forget the FA stud coming here, it simply isn't happening and why overpay?
This gets to my point, I guess. This whole process of building slowly through the draft, not doing anything crazy, not overspending to make a big splash in FA etc makes sense, but at what cost? There are some fans and some media that are beginning to lose their minds because these guys are not playing the paper champions game. I am on the fence with it, because as much as I want to trust, I still have that icky feeling that I am getting hosed again here by inept management. There is still no sense of urgency, and although we don't want to go all Phillip Savage and play glorified Fantasy Football, the perception around the league seems to be we don't want to win.
Great post Riffer! I feel the same way on a lot of things!
I miss Phil Savage about as much as my last case of food poisoning. RAC wanted a bunch of 2 gap dlinemen so Phil overpaid for a bunch of 1 gappers. That's a GM in over his head. And I remembered him promising we going to build through the draft only to see day 1 removed from the 2008 draft prior to having Cleveland only scheduled for 4 draft picks in 2009.
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
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If you look at the supposed talent around McCoy, you would think that Holmgren basically was new at this thing.
1st of all,what kind of idenity are they trying to define on offense?
I see a offense that does nothing even average.
the collection of players don't really compliment each other.
he went into 2011 with a WR core that was the worst in the AFC.
Massaqiou and Slobiskie were supposed to prosper in this scheme Shurmur conjured up.
problem with that is,those 2 draft busts by Mangini aren't very creative after the catch. No wiggle,no shake/bake.
Neither attack the ball and J-ville will find out Slobiskie isn't NFL quaility
Basically carbon copies of each other
Josh Cribbs is not a true WR.He's a jack of all trades,master of none.
He's limited in what he can off the route tree.
He's never gonna keep a CB guessing.
Jordan Norwood is a complimentry piece. Probally the best hands on the team.
but kinda undersized and not fast enough to make a safety play way back.
Carlton Mitchell just lacks a mental aptitude for the game. Thats why he can't see the field.
Greg Little needs a good WR coach to get the most out of him.
Little is the best RB on the team and he's a WR.
The TE's are just blah.
Ben Watson finds open spots but he bad hands.
Evan Moore doesn't run his routes open throttle. if the play isn't designed for him,he's quits.
He's a poor blocker to boot.
Jordan Cameron was a reach. all he has is size. He has no feel for the position.
The Browns RB's do nothing well.
What Holmgren saw in Almond Smith is beyond me.
But this is the same guy that loved the WR's.
Peyton Hillis was the one commodity that the Browns had.
He ran with his knees up and is hard to bring down.
great hands.
the only back they had that could take a game over.
yet they let him walk.
if they kept him,thats one less position they had to address in the draft within the 1st 37 picks.
Chris Ogynbanna..practice squad talent..can't pick up blitzes.
Montario Hardesty is a pick Heckert missed on.
looking at the Browns RB's/TE's WR's....there isn't one that cause a mismatch on defense.
The playcalling is limited by the lack of talent and the talent limits the playcalling
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Quote:
If you look at the supposed talent around McCoy, you would think that Holmgren basically was new at this thing.
1st of all,what kind of idenity are they trying to define on offense?
I see a offense that does nothing even average.
the collection of players don't really compliment each other.
he went into 2011 with a WR core that was the worst in the AFC.
Massaqiou and Slobiskie were supposed to prosper in this scheme Shurmur conjured up.
problem with that is,those 2 draft busts by Mangini aren't very creative after the catch. No wiggle,no shake/bake.
Neither attack the ball and J-ville will find out Slobiskie isn't NFL quaility
Basically carbon copies of each other
Josh Cribbs is not a true WR.He's a jack of all trades,master of none.
He's limited in what he can off the route tree.
He's never gonna keep a CB guessing.
Jordan Norwood is a complimentry piece. Probally the best hands on the team.
but kinda undersized and not fast enough to make a safety play way back.
Carlton Mitchell just lacks a mental aptitude for the game. Thats why he can't see the field.
Greg Little needs a good WR coach to get the most out of him.
Little is the best RB on the team and he's a WR.
The TE's are just blah.
Ben Watson finds open spots but he bad hands.
Evan Moore doesn't run his routes open throttle. if the play isn't designed for him,he's quits.
He's a poor blocker to boot.
Jordan Cameron was a reach. all he has is size. He has no feel for the position.
The Browns RB's do nothing well.
What Holmgren saw in Almond Smith is beyond me.
But this is the same guy that loved the WR's.
Peyton Hillis was the one commodity that the Browns had.
He ran with his knees up and is hard to bring down.
great hands.
the only back they had that could take a game over.
yet they let him walk.
if they kept him,thats one less position they had to address in the draft within the 1st 37 picks.
Chris Ogynbanna..practice squad talent..can't pick up blitzes.
Montario Hardesty is a pick Heckert missed on.
looking at the Browns RB's/TE's WR's....there isn't one that cause a mismatch on defense.
The playcalling is limited by the lack of talent and the talent limits the playcalling
Well done KS!
In 2010, McCoy's goto guys were Ben Watson and Peyton Hillis combinining for 129 receptions. In 2011 both seemed like they were injured and playing at far less than 100% when available.
Mangini was hired by an owner who's best professional sports team is on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. I don't know if he interviewed any other candidates; but there wasn't a GM in tact to assure us the hire would be a long term compatibility with the next experience GM and Vice president hired here.
Before I blame Mangini for being a bad GM, how many keepers did we have from the 2008 draft without a day 1 the year before he arrived? And in 2009, we had only 4 draft picks scheduled. That's not exactly a winning lottery ticket with an early payout.
Why do we suppose Mangini won 10 games as a rookie Head Coach in NY; but struggled in Cleveland? You don't turn 10 years of bad drafting around in 1 season or 2 for that matter when you understand we had 1 keeper from 08 and no experienced NFL GM to turn 4 picks in 2009 into something special long term here.
There's a ton of Browns fans that have had plenty of practice alternating years of wanting the Head Coach fired 1 year and the starting QB replaced the next. Practice makes perfect.
A player like Greg Little is an investment just like Colt McCoy is. If you don't take care of your investments or knee jerk on them prematurely - you don't deserve the payouts from them later on. Why do we suppose Holmgren wanted to announce right after the draft that McCoy wouldn't see the field as a rookie?
Loved your points about Little and Cribbs changing positions. Again, nice post KS!
5 of the first 8 teams drafting have first round draft picks at QB. Ironically, St Louis is the team that resembles us the most. They want to surround their young QB with as many draft picks as possible. Like Bradford, McCoy had to split his first 21 NFL starts with 2 different playbooks. Like Bradford, the first year went better than the second year. Some want to caution we don't know Tannehill's ceiling for #4 overall consideration; but we supposedly know McCoy's ceiling? Remember what they thought of Drew Brees after season #3. They drafted a QB first overall. Forget hindsight 20/20 now that he's 33 years old. When he was McCoy's age he wasn't making everyone around him better any better than Steve Young was able to do. Playing Qb for bad teams early is like playing the position with 2 handcuffs and 1 ball and chain around an ankle.
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Not a bad rant, Riffer. I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I could at least follow and understand where you were coming from. That's a rare quality in many of the posts here. 
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Agree with much of what you said. Not all - I wasn't a Mangini fan, although I do think he had a better sense of what some of us old-timers think "Browns' football" meant, than the WCO crowd. What I really don't get is how anyone could consider the offense we rolled out last season was NFL quality. I am on the fence on McCoy, but surely even an ass-tard could see that he regressed under Shurmur's so-called WCO. Why? What exactly is this West Coast Offense I keep hearing about, because I have to tell you ... I DON"T GET IT. If it was just circumstance - the loss of off-season activities that would facilitate better execution - then okay, fine, fix it. Get things in sync. But if we see the same old crapola ... 3 yard passes on 3rd and 5, handoffs to TE's on crucial 3rd & 1's, yadda-yadda-yadda ... if we see that garbage again this year, then Mike and Heck and Pat can all pack their bags and hit the road as far as I'm concerned. Its time for results.
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Geez Riff, I didn't know you moved to Wisconsin. Best of wishes all the way my man. I hope you make it back for a game from time to time. I enjoyed the times we met up at tailgates. I'll have to pull up Howies video where we were barking in tandem, showing how it's done!
As with you, I would much rather have Mangini over Unshurmer, but water under the bridge as you say. It's just a different philosophy, so it takes time. We'll see how much time.
I differ a bit on the TE. I don't care if a TE can block much, as long as they can catch and make plays. Ozzie wasn't known for his blocking skills. The problem with our non-blocking tight ends is we don't give them a chance to catch often enough. If you are going to put guys like that on the team, why put them in there to block? It doesn't make sense. We have to determine whether we want a guy who can catch and split the seams or if we want a blocker. We seem to get all bodgered up and have non blockers in there to block and slow plodding blockers in there to split the seams. Unless you have the rare guy who can do both, you have to decide which you want and go with it. You can't ask people to do things they can't. It makes no sense.
I agree on Hillis. No doubt the guy had some issues, but I wonder how many of those issues were brought on by the coach and his inability to put his player in a situation where he could utilize his talents? The guy could run and the guy could catch, but we seemed to ignore that, allow the egg head in him to surface and let him walk. Again, makes no sense. My attitude is put your aces in their places and play the hand. It seems to me we don't play the cards we have and rather try to bluff a great deal of the time.
Best of luck my man and if you have a desire to get back to your old stomping grounds to catch a game, let me know. You can sit with me anytime Bubba.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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What I am seeing with this fanbase is further division amongst its fans year after year. As long as this franchise continues to suck and spiral nowhere, the more fans are dropping off entirely, becoming apathetic, taking sides in debates, accusing others of things they didn't say or strawmanning them, the list goes on and on.
Each year consists of what can we do to rectify the situation and how do we do it. This has created a scapegoat scenario, with one season it being the coach who must go and the next the QB. Well, we got our wonderful new coach and his offense flat out blew, so now it is time to move on from the crap QB before at least letting him develop. Apparently, there are enough experts out there who can tell when a QB has reached his supposed ceiling in a brand new system and scheme devoid of talent.
The one thing I can say about this regime is they seem intent on staying the course, but as Dave said, if we start seeing the same craptastic offense and play calling this year, how much longer can you stay with these guys? I get we need continuity, but we also need talent throughout the organization in making the right decisions, not just on the field.
This brings up another point: When I see fans already planning on the team sucking this year or hoping we suck so we can get some sort of franchise saver with another top pick, I know that my once great franchise and fanbase has reached new lows. It sickens me to see this type of fandom, but its the ramification of what happens when a team can't get its stuff together.
I plan on this team winning around 8 games this year winning some they shouldn't and losing some they shouldn't, but continuing to grow without hopefully sustaining too many injuries. I would like to think Colt will grow more and continue to develop into a viable starter, but if he doesn't, so be it. We didn't find a starter with a third rounder and move on as the team continues to be built. The picks this year that have been accrued are huge going forward. The Browns are in a position to creep up on people with young talent that is not known throughout the league.
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I don't agree with everything you posted.. some yes, some no, but you didn't deserve Django going off on you like a child who's daddy just said NO, YOU CAN"T DO THAT..... Welcome,, hope you stick around.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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If there's one thing I've been skeptical about is all the Bob LaMonte clients on staff. Stinks of nepotism but I've let it slide.
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If there's one thing I've been skeptical about is all the Bob LaMonte clients on staff. Stinks of nepotism but I've let it slide.
FWIW, 38 years in the recruiting business tells me that it's not so much nepotism. it's more familiar people..
When you hire like this, you are looking for info and input from those you trust..
Sometimes, it leads you down a path like this,,,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Geez Riff, I didn't know you moved to Wisconsin. Best of wishes all the way my man. I hope you make it back for a game from time to time. I enjoyed the times we met up at tailgates. I'll have to pull up Howies video where we were barking in tandem, showing how it's done!
As with you, I would much rather have Mangini over Unshurmer, but water under the bridge as you say. It's just a different philosophy, so it takes time. We'll see how much time.
I differ a bit on the TE. I don't care if a TE can block much, as long as they can catch and make plays. Ozzie wasn't known for his blocking skills. The problem with our non-blocking tight ends is we don't give them a chance to catch often enough. If you are going to put guys like that on the team, why put them in there to block? It doesn't make sense. We have to determine whether we want a guy who can catch and split the seams or if we want a blocker. We seem to get all bodgered up and have non blockers in there to block and slow plodding blockers in there to split the seams. Unless you have the rare guy who can do both, you have to decide which you want and go with it. You can't ask people to do things they can't. It makes no sense.
I agree on Hillis. No doubt the guy had some issues, but I wonder how many of those issues were brought on by the coach and his inability to put his player in a situation where he could utilize his talents? The guy could run and the guy could catch, but we seemed to ignore that, allow the egg head in him to surface and let him walk. Again, makes no sense. My attitude is put your aces in their places and play the hand. It seems to me we don't play the cards we have and rather try to bluff a great deal of the time.
Best of luck my man and if you have a desire to get back to your old stomping grounds to catch a game, let me know. You can sit with me anytime Bubba.
Peens, thanks for the welcome old friend. We have had some good times at the Gates with the shine, orange sheet and good folks. I will probably try to coordinate coming back around to Ohio for visits around a home game. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and I know I will miss the team even more after being at such a distance. I am in Appleton BTW, which is about 30 miles SW of Green Bay. LOL, the Pack fans I have met are pretty apathetic toward me being a Browns fan, but I have of course already met a Steeler fan through my new job.
Regarding your post, I think we are in agreement on the TE thing, you just said it better. We had quite a mishmash of mismatches regarding our TE's last year. My point is, you can't have TE's lining up in running packages that are completely irrelevant in trying to block the Harrison types out there, but then when you split them out, they can easily be covered by nickel and dime backs etc.
I want playmakers everywhere I can get them. For example, I would have liked to have worked out something with Hillis to play him in more of a dual back role at fullback, kinda like Mack and Byner.
I want to believe in Shurms, but man, he really didn't show me much last year to even say he is the least bit competent. Was he limiting things because of the lack of talent? Was it because Colt really does limit the ability to stretch defenses and get them out of the box? Not sure yet, but Shurms lacked basic coaching skills many times during the season and in his pressers.
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If there's one thing I've been skeptical about is all the Bob LaMonte clients on staff. Stinks of nepotism but I've let it slide.
FWIW, 38 years in the recruiting business tells me that it's not so much nepotism. it's more familiar people..
When you hire like this, you are looking for info and input from those you trust..
Sometimes, it leads you down a path like this,,,,
Daman, I appreciate your showing a little class regarding newer posters being treated like crap by old vets on boards. I assure you though, guys like that don't bother me because you will find them wherever you go. Besides that, if all boards were all kumbaya all the time, you wouldn't have those boards around very long. Trust me when I say I have been on quite a few boards going back years, even been a mod on a few, but sometimes boards run there course because certain posters just ruin things for everybody and make the board unreadable.
Regarding your recruiting experience, I agree to a point. However, too much familiarity can be a bad thing too. Sometimes you need dissenting views, someone to say "hey, why don't we go this route?" without being afraid of the corporate gang mentality coming at them.
Seems like an excessive amount of clients under the same agent to me, but I don't necessarily think it is the end of the world either.
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Not a bad rant, Riffer.
I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I could at least follow and understand where you were coming from. That's a rare quality in many of the posts here.
I had someone agree with everything I said once----couldn't stand her.
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I never wanted to let Mangini go and thought it was moronic that Walrus couldn't find a way to make things work out with a guy who got Cleveland football.
Mangini spoke French. Holmgren spoke Japanese. It was ever going to work.
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continued to run Greg Little out there play after play
Why is that a bad thing?
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still didn't fully utilize Cribbs
What more do you want him to do, run the now extinct Wildcat?
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What did Fritz's nephew have on his resume that was enough to be an upgrade over Mangini? A WCO playbook?
Yes. And he is an offensive minded coach. Something Holmgren wanted.
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This is Cleveland, not Seattle, and we mean business here.
People in Seattle don't care about football? What about Green bay?
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get that Fat Man?
Very mature.
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You told us the guy who was getting excitement going here again by beating the New Englands, the New Orleans etc after gutting things, wasn't good enough for us.
It is fun to beat good teams. It is more fun to win lots of games every year. Winning lots of games every year was not possible with Mangini as the head coach.
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Now you're telling us everything is going to be fine as we watch your handpicked guy get our young QB killed and the special teams can't execute normal plays---heck, the defense couldn't even get out of the huddle.
As you said before, things with a new head coach were going to be rough. The special teams executed fine after Pointbriand was cut. The defense had one horrible play the first game of the season, but really made now other major mistakes besides that.
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We do know that he is stupid, that can't be refuted if you watch the games. We can certainly hope that he gets less stupid, but he will still be stupid.
Huh? What did he do that was stupid? Somebody on here went through and looked at the play-by-play of every offensive play we had and Lauvao had something like six penalties the whole season.
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when he didn't have the sniffles.
Pashos may have been injured a lot, but he had some very serious injuries. And he even played through injury last season. Acting like he had minor injuries and didn't play through them is wrong.
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I still can't logically fathom letting Hillis walk. Regardless what went down
You can't logically fathom letting a player who quit on his team walk? No not regardless. It happened, bridges were burned.
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he was still a viable starter
He had one good season. How is that a viable starter?
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the perception around the league seems to be we don't want to win.
It is? How do you know this? There is a difference between can't win and don't want to win. I can understand the perception that we can't win (for numerous reasons). If we don't want to win, that's a whole different story.
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I know that I picked your post apart in my previous post, just would also like to say that I agree with you on a few points as well. Especially on the point about Colt McCoy.
Welcome to the boards!
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A little history on me: I never wanted to let Mangini go and thought it was moronic that Walrus couldn't find a way to make things work out with a guy who got Cleveland football.
rif...yesterday, I stopped reading your post thinking I knew exactly where it was headed.
Today, I allowed myself to read the rest of your post...I should have saved myself the time because I was right "yesterday" about where you were heading with the post.
The Browns are rebuilding via the draft and will continue, this being the third draft since Holmgren and Heckert were hired. This draft should put the Brown past the 50% level as the focus of this draft will likely have an offensive flavor to it.
It takes time to rebuild a team via the draft and most NFL franchises today are not willing to invest 4 or 5 yrs in such a process. Today's impatient fans and media talking heads want their playoff caliber team now and if they don't get their playoff caliber team now, they are going to trash the very team they claim to be fans of...and that makes absolutely no sense to me.
Patience is needed to endure this process and if you don't have the patience to endure the process, most likely, you are not going to be happy this year, either.
I'm not looking for a miracle season this year, but next year...the 2013 season is when I expect the Browns turn the corner. That does not mean a Super Bowl team in 2013...it means the pieces are in place to produce a winning team that should challenge for the playoffs.
In 2014 and 2015, the Browns should be loaded with talent that is just beginning to reach their prime. The window for success for the Cleveland Browns begins to open next year (2013) and should remain open for years to come.
Got to have a long term vision...
It does no good to look back...
It does no good to cry about today..
The future is ahead for Browns fans...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Another Mangini-McCoy apologist scapegoating this FO.....NEXT !
Hard to believe we have working class America holding all this football knowledge hostage.
No wonder why somebody wants attention and cyber hugs.
Riffer, that was a great post! To know where we are going - one has to understand where we've been at the draft and free agency in all the successive years leading up to this regime and off season. Did I need to use caps too?
Last edited by Ottomatic Flugel; 03/18/12 09:44 AM.
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
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Not a bad rant, Riffer.
I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I could at least follow and understand where you were coming from. That's a rare quality in many of the posts here.
I had someone agree with everything I said once----couldn't stand her.
You shouldn't have married her. 
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Mangini spoke French. Holmgren spoke Japanese. It was ever going to work.
Whose fault was that? Perhaps an owner shouldn't hire a coach before the President/Mr. Everything. Mangini = > Patty Shurms anyway you cut it. Find a WCO coordinator than.
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Why is that a bad thing?
Because there were times when Little needed sat, he flat out wasn't performing. He was given a sense of entitlement for a second round pick that didn't even play his last year of school cuz he was suspended. I get he needed all the experience possible, but when he was dropping passes at an alarming rate and not using his body correctly on routes, he needed a break.
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What more do you want him to do, run the now extinct Wildcat?
Are you one of those guys that doesn't like Cribbs for whatever reason? Seems a lot of fans undervalue Cribbs, even to the point of wanting to trade him for fourth rounders and other crazy stuff. The Wildcat is not the only way to implement playmakers, which Cribbs is most definitely. What were we just talking about with Little getting all the reps?
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Yes. And he is an offensive minded coach. Something Holmgren wanted.
Whatever Walrus Wants, he gets. That offensive minded coach scored one more point than an expansion team.
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People in Seattle don't care about football? What about Green bay?
You are really trying to compare the fandom of the Seattle area to Northeast Ohio? Let me say that again----you are really trying to compare the fandom of Seattle Seahawks fans to the Browns? Green Bay I will give you, but it has been years since Walrus was there and not in an executive capacity. I will say, since being up here in and around Green Bay, I have talked to quite a few Packer fans and I have yet to be impressed with their knowledge, it is nothing that impressive---not that I have a full sampling yet. They are typical happy fans who happen to have a great football team with a great tradition. It is quite easy to be happy go lucky when your team has not sucked since 1994.
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Very mature.
Oh good gracious. My deepest apologies, I certainly hope I didn't offend Mr. Holmgren with a term many fans and media have used toward him. Let me guess, you are one of those guys who has a man purse and watches a lot of Lifetime?? 
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It is fun to beat good teams. It is more fun to win lots of games every year. Winning lots of games every year was not possible with Mangini as the head coach.
Where to start with such a simple statement. Let's see, Mangini won 5 games each in two seasons with an expansion style roster that was left depleted by Phillip with very few draft picks. There were glimpses at times of a team with an identity and a team that could put good to great football together. I hate going back in time on this stuff, but when people make such simple statements construed as fact I feel a helping hand is in order. Two winning seasons in NY, including 10 wins out the gate. Patty Shurms had 4 ugly wins against the weakest schedule since the DA breakout half season, with more talent.
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As you said before, things with a new head coach were going to be rough. The special teams executed fine after Pointbriand was cut. The defense had one horrible play the first game of the season, but really made now other major mistakes besides that.
Good points. Things with a new coach with no experience were beyond rough, but getting Mangini out of here was apparently all worth it. Glad you are happy with the special teams now that we unceremoniously got rid of that pesky Pontbriand.
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Pashos may have been injured a lot, but he had some very serious injuries. And he even played through injury last season. Acting like he had minor injuries and didn't play through them is wrong.
No it is not. Pashos is a pretty good player when healthy and at full strength, the problem is this is hardly ever. You don't recall the game missed for being sick??? All the Hillis crap aside, but fans came to expect it from Pashos. I heard about him complaining that he played hurt all last season, but the guy collected a lot of money here and didn't give the franchise back what it invested, plain and simple. He was simply unreliable, period. It was his M O when signed and still is.
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You can't logically fathom letting a player who quit on his team walk? No not regardless. It happened, bridges were burned.
Again, these are your perceptions. All I know is we had running back covered for at least another season and now we don't. Rather than being able to invest in other primary areas of need, we have to put RB at a very high priority. Hillis may begin with hi but it doesn't spell Hitler, he is not satan reincarnated despite what fans like you have tried to surmise.
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He had one good season. How is that a viable starter?
Do you have two eyes? Do you watch the games? Did you not see this big white guy running with 4.5 speed and knocking the snot out of the opposition, all while possessing the best hands that Dave Logan said he ever saw on any player? He signed for a pittance to go elsewhere and we have no backs, you are kidding me right? I'm not even a huge Hillis fan, but this team would have been better off with him than without. I do think there is a bit of a book out on him now in that teams are hitting him low and taking his legs out, which has hurt his effectiveness in stretching runs.
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It is? How do you know this? There is a difference between can't win and don't want to win. I can understand the perception that we can't win (for numerous reasons). If we don't want to win, that's a whole different story.
When you are not attempting to put the best team you can on the field, that is the perception, right or wrong. Players and agents don't care about 5 year rebuilding plans---it is what it is.
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Oh yea , DJ. has become the board appointed apologist for Heckert and Co.
For the record: I'll defend Heckert as long as he keeps drafting 2 above AVG starters every draft + 1-2 below AVG to AVG starters every year....that's a good hitting percentage...don't believe me? Take a look at other team's drafts...you know he's done a good job when people's number 1 gripe after 2 drafts is that he's drafted a "bust" TE in round 4 or spend a 3rd and 2x5ths for a RB with bum knees...remember those days when we drafted busts in round 1 and 2? I think Eric "Holy Cow" Mangini managed to draft 3 busts in round 2...in just 1 draft
Holmgren has 2 strikes on him for being loyal to a fault with Mangini (his job isn't to be nice, it's to accelerate there-building process and he slowed it down with this non-move) and for pulling rank on McCoy selection, who we're about to waste a 2nd season on...
Shurmur I'm on the fence...he's likeable imho and I think the players play hard for him...I can't remember a season with less "unmotivated" games than this...they played hard till the end pretty much in every game...under Crennel and Mangini there were games where they looked they didn't even care, just going through the motions...haven't seen much of this last season....incompetency? Sure, but I haven't seen a lack of effort
If I had to rank the trifecta in my "faith" 1. Heckert, 2. Shurmur, 3. Holmgren
Holmgren has the "toughest" job, as every little mistake by the other 2 leads back to him, but I just don't feel good about his involvement in the draft room or FA....I hope he really lets Heckert do his job and isn't bored doing nothing...I like his philosophy of how to build a team though
Overall, I'm hardly an apologist for this FO but I'll defend them anytime from irrational attacks from revisionist, who try to polish the holy shrines of past losers by deferring blame and that's what I read in the 1st post and that's why I responded the way I did....consider it as a summary of a long winded post
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Because there were times when Little needed sat, he flat out wasn't performing. He was given a sense of entitlement for a second round pick that didn't even play his last year of school cuz he was suspended. I get he needed all the experience possible, but when he was dropping passes at an alarming rate and not using his body correctly on routes, he needed a break.
He was, sadly, the best option we had. In a losing season, I don't really see the harm in letting the kid get some experience under his belt and and attempt to iron out the wrinkles.
What else were we going to do, send Carlton Mitchell out there?
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Let's see, Mangini won 5 games each in two seasons with an expansion style roster that was left depleted by Phillip with very few draft picks.
How was it Phil Savage's fault that Mangini burned down the barn in the 2009 draft? Coming into the draft, he had the #5 pick, and after trading Winslow (which I thought was a good move), two seconds. Through trading down he picked up an extra second, and two extra sixths (which were horrible trades).
He turned that into Alex Mack, Brett Ratliff, Abe Elam, Kenyon Coleman, Mohamed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, David Veikune, Coy Francies and James Davis.
The lack on talent Mangini had to work with is on Mangini, not Savage.
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Good points. Things with a new coach with no experience were beyond rough, but getting Mangini out of here was apparently all worth it.
I would agree with that to an extent, yeah.
I really dislike Shurmur, and he's shown me nothing to indicate that he won't be canned in a year or two, but long-term, getting rid of Mangini was a good call.
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Oh good gracious. My deepest apologies, I certainly hope I didn't offend Mr. Holmgren with a term many fans and media have used toward him. Let me guess, you are one of those guys who has a man purse and watches a lot of Lifetime??
Picking on a guy for being fat is poor form. How is pointing that out akin to being feminine?
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Do you have two eyes? Do you watch the games? Did you not see this big white guy running with 4.5 speed and knocking the snot out of the opposition, all while possessing the best hands that Dave Logan said he ever saw on any player? He signed for a pittance to go elsewhere and we have no backs, you are kidding me right? I'm not even a huge Hillis fan, but this team would have been better off with him than without. I do think there is a bit of a book out on him now in that teams are hitting him low and taking his legs out, which has hurt his effectiveness in stretching runs.
I would've preferred to keep the guy, as well, but the writing was on the wall there from the get-go. For whatever reason Heckert and/or Shurmur seemed lukewarm on the guy from day one. Couple that in with his antics this season, and divorce was inevitable.
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After the FA and draft last year ; my son and I where talking .. His comment was that they were pretty much tossing the season away and looking at next year ! I thought that was a little harsh ( felt sorry for season ticket holders , like I do every year ) Wonder if we trade down again this year ( way down ) and skip picking a play maker ( like Blackmon ) and try and pick another first for next season ???? I think it was DC who was asking when do we sit tight and take a play maker .. Just typing out loud
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Perhaps an owner shouldn't hire a coach before the President/Mr. Everything.
Are we talking about when Mangini was hired before Kokinis?
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Find a WCO coordinator than.
So fire Mangini's guy Daboll and hire someone who runs an entirely different system than everybody on the staff? That would have went well.
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Are you one of those guys that doesn't like Cribbs for whatever reason?
No. I love Cribbs. I just don't think he is anything special as a receiver.
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You are really trying to compare the fandom of the Seattle area to Northeast Ohio?
Yes. Seattle has one of the most passionate fan bases in all of sports.
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Let me guess, you are one of those guys who has a man purse and watches a lot of Lifetime??
Wow. When you are trying to get people to take you seriously don't make dumb comments like this.
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Let's see, Mangini won 5 games each in two seasons with an expansion style roster that was left depleted by Phillip with very few draft picks.
Mangini had eight picks in the 2009 draft. Some he inherited, some he gained through trade. Of those eight picks only three are still on the roster (Mack, Maiava, and Massaquoi). And you said this about Massaquoi in your first post, "NoMoreMass please just sucks".
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Glad you are happy with the special teams now that we unceremoniously got rid of that pesky Pontbriand.
Wouldn't you agree that many of of our special team problems, that you highlighted in your first post, stemmed from bad snaps by Pontbriand? His only job was to snap the ball cleanly. He failed multiple times. He was fired.
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he is not satan reincarnated despite what fans like you have tried to surmise.
Nope he [Hillis] was just a bad teammate for half the season.
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When you are not attempting to put the best team you can on the field
Who says they weren't trying? You?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
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Joined: Jan 2007
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I think Little and Norwood are both going to be decent receivers for us. We need a #1 though.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
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What I am seeing with this fanbase is further division amongst its fans year after year. As long as this franchise continues to suck and spiral nowhere, the more fans are dropping off entirely, becoming apathetic, taking sides in debates, accusing others of things they didn't say or strawmanning them, the list goes on and on.
I see frustration from the fanbase, but none of what you believe you see. I believe you're projecting your frustrations in such a way as to influence your own perceptions.
When the Browns are dealing with blackouts, then one can argue of the things you speak.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
Practice Squad
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OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106 |
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What I am seeing with this fanbase is further division amongst its fans year after year. As long as this franchise continues to suck and spiral nowhere, the more fans are dropping off entirely, becoming apathetic, taking sides in debates, accusing others of things they didn't say or strawmanning them, the list goes on and on.
I see frustration from the fanbase, but none of what you believe you see. I believe you're projecting your frustrations in such a way as to influence your own perceptions.
When the Browns are dealing with blackouts, then one can argue of the things you speak.
Oh man......smelling salts please!!!
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"Does Howdy Doody got Wooden balls, man?"
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
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OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106 |
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I think Little and Norwood are both going to be decent receivers for us. We need a #1 though.
I agree, but Little's hands are a bit of a concern. Here is a little reminder of what we have had here going back some years:
Tim's "Got More Drops Than Carter's Got Pills"
Braylons
Antonio Bryant
Dennis Northcutt
Michael Jackson
Quincy "Dr. Q" Morgan
Paul "Glue Hands" Hubbard
Roberts Royale with Butter
To name a few of our good hands team.
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"Does Howdy Doody got Wooden balls, man?"
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
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Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106 |
No time for the nitpicking for one liners replies this go around: I had no idea one little comment that was more of a local talk radio and local fan comment about Walrus' appearance would be offensive on a football message board. Again, my apologies to those that were offended--or felt the need to point out how much more righteous they are  Regarding the squad that EM inherited from Phillip, I see some here need to do a little further research. Savage left this team with 4 picks total after giving up picks like a drunken Fantasy Footballer owner. He was slinging picks around for one gap 4/3 guys and expecting RAC to utilize their talents fully in two gap 3/4's. EM was hired to be a football coach, so I can somewhat excuse his drafting. BTW, I liked most of the picks except for Veikune, never could figure out what EM was smoking on that one. Fully backed MoMass and Robo until this past season. Robo can play in a certain system, but not here. MoMass just lacks the savvy and instinct to play the position, and I am not sure he ever fully recovered from Harrison's cheapshot. Your owner screwed this up and put us behind the 8 ball again by hiring his coach and whatever Kokinis was before he hired Walrus to be Gawd. I still would like to know someday what the deal was behind Kok's firing, but we probably never will. BTW, Cribbs was the best receiver the team had last season---just an FYI.
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"Does Howdy Doody got Wooden balls, man?"
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