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You're right. I stand corrected. I must have gotten him confused with Montario Hardesty the year before. My apologies.
We chose him with the 2nd round pick we got from Atlanta. Still, we used a 2nd rounder on a WR converted from RB who had not played the season before.
Greg Little may turn out to be a great WR for the Browns - but he was a true project - in every sense of the word. Stephen Hill is not a project.
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You're right. I stand corrected. I must have gotten him confused with Montario Hardesty the year before. My apologies.
We chose him with the 2nd round pick we got from Atlanta. Still, we used a 2nd rounder on a WR converted from RB who had not played the season before.
Greg Little may turn out to be a great WR for the Browns - but he was a true project - in every sense of the word. Stephen Hill is not a project.
Little was raw, but at least he played in a pro style offense at NC. He was also a 2nd round pick and that's where you gamble on a project player. Not in the 1st round.
I think Hill will probably be drafted higher then he should.....
There are probably 6 WR in this years class who should be drafted high then Hill.
In 3 years he might end up being a better player then some of his peers, but there is much about playing WR where he is behind those peers at this time.
You can convince yourself otherwise, but that doesn't make it so.
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He would still have the 87 or 88 catches for 1,300 yards! Would that kind of production put him in the talk as the #1 overall receiver?
Well, Blackmon had 121 catches for 1522 yds and 18 TDs as a senior and the focus of every defense he played against.
Also, it's tough to project production in the ACC to production in the SEC.
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He would still have the 87 or 88 catches for 1,300 yards! Would that kind of production put him in the talk as the #1 overall receiver?
Well, Blackmon had 121 catches for 1522 yds and 18 TDs as a senior and the focus of every defense he played against.
Also, it's tough to project production in the ACC to production in the SEC.
Blackmon wasn't in the SEC. I suppose that you meant to infer that he was comparable with the conference that Blackmon played in.
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Yeah, I pretty solid in my view that Stephen Hill is probably the best receiver in this class - over Blackmon, Floyd, Wright, Jeffery, et al.
Based on 49 career receptions in College over 3 years 
It was probably a good thing that he left GT with another year of eligibility, because there isn't anything he would learn about playing the position there, but there is like 7 routes this youngster needs to learn to run at the next level.
Intriguing yes, best in his class GMAB.
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He would still have the 87 or 88 catches for 1,300 yards! Would that kind of production put him in the talk as the #1 overall receiver?
Well, Blackmon had 121 catches for 1522 yds and 18 TDs as a senior and the focus of every defense he played against.
Also, it's tough to project production in the ACC to production in the SEC.
Blackmon wasn't in the SEC. I suppose that you meant to infer that he was comparable with the conference that Blackmon played in.
I was talking about the translation from production at Georgia Tech to the projected production at Georgia.
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A project? We have Greg Little as our top receiver. He was traded up for in the second round, was a converted RB and hadn't played the season before he was drafted and he never had the production that Stephen Hill has.
That's right...Little is a project...Hill WILL BE a project(maybe not as big of a project as Little but a project none the less)....are you suggesting that our top 2 receivers be projects???? Do we really need another project at receiver?? 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Yeah, I pretty solid in my view that Stephen Hill is probably the best receiver in this class - over Blackmon, Floyd, Wright, Jeffery, et al.
Based on 49 career receptions in College over 3 years
Actually, no. Not based on 49 career receptions over 3 years. Based on production with the opportunities given by the GT system.
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It was probably a good thing that he left GT with another year of eligibility, because there isn't anything he would learn about playing the position there, but there is like 7 routes this youngster needs to learn to run at the next level.
Intriguing yes, best in his class GMAB.
The same routes that Calvin Johnson and Demaryius Thomas ran?
Yeah, I think he'll be the best WR in the NFL out of this entire draft class.
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A project? We have Greg Little as our top receiver. He was traded up for in the second round, was a converted RB and hadn't played the season before he was drafted and he never had the production that Stephen Hill has.
That's right...Little is a project...Hill WILL BE a project(maybe not as big of a project as Little but a project none the less)....are you suggesting that our top 2 receivers be projects???? Do we really need another project at receiver??
Whatever. I don't think that Stephen Hill is a project at all. I don't think that Megatron is a project.
I don't think that Demaryius Thomas is all that much of a project. Remember him? Caught a pass from Tebow to beat Putzburgh in the first play in OT during the playoffs?
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The same routes that Calvin Johnson no and Demaryius Thomas yes ran?
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I see the confusion now. I never tried. I was just comparing raw numbers. Of course it is hard to compare the ACC and SEC receivers, but I dare say that it could be argued that the ACC provides a better test than the Big 12 where Blackmon played. If Hill was in the Big 12, he might have had 50 catches for 4,000 yards. 
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The same routes that Calvin Johnson no and Demaryius Thomas yes ran?
Okay. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.
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Has GT had a Coaching change since Johnson was there?
Because if not, why would the routes/scheme be that different?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I think it is safe to say that Hill is most physically gifted wide receiver in the draft. He is 6'4" and 215 pounds. He ran a 4.36 forty-yard dash. He also had a 39.5" vertical leap. Those numbers are all impressive.
We will probably bring him in for a visit. It is there it will be determined if he is capable of running NFL routes. If it is determined he can run NFL routes and he works hard, he will be a beast.
If we go Richardson/Martin or something similar in the first round I would have no problems taking Hill with our second round pick.
If he is successful he could be a Vincent Jackson type of receiver.
Yes, he is raw, but so way Greg Little. And Little had over 700 yards receiving in his rookie season. A season in which there was no off-season to learn the offense. If Little could take a step forward and Hill could replicate Little's rookie season I think we would all be ery happy.
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Has GT had a Coaching change since Johnson was there?
Because if not, why would the routes/scheme be that different?
Calvin Johnson was at Georgia Tech from 2004 to 2006. The head coach at Georgia Tech during that time period was Chan Gailey. Gailey was fired in 2007 and Georgia Tech hired their current head coach and triple option runner Paul Johnson; who has been there ever since.
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Has GT had a Coaching change since Johnson was there?
Because if not, why would the routes/scheme be that different?
What is Chan Gailey's offensive philosophy? I don't remember it being an Air Coryell offense, do you?
As for GT during that time, Calvin Johnson caught about the same percent of passes as Stephen Hill.
I'll leave the rest up to everyone else to decide. But, when every team sent a contingent to talk to him at the Combine, I think that speaks volumes about his abilities.
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What is Chan Gailey's offensive philosophy? I don't remember it being an Air Coryell offense, do you?
I don't think it is Air Coryell, but it is a pretty big difference compared to the offense that Paul Johnson currently runs.
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As for GT during that time, Calvin Johnson caught about the same percent of passes as Stephen Hill.
That doesn't matter. Johnson was running NFL routes. And the more reps you get making catches the more ready you will be for the NFL.
Johnson had 48 catches his freshman year. Hill had 49 in his three year college career.
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I think that speaks volumes about his abilities.
Yes. His physical abilities.
There is nothing wrong with being a raw, uber-talented draft pick. I am a Stephen Hill fan, but he shouldn't be taken in the first round, unless it is determined he can already run the NFL routes successfully. The only way to determine that is watching game film. In his game film he doesn't run those routes because his team runs the ball every play. Another way to find out is to bring him in and work him out. But that would only put him against air on an empty field.
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Except that Hills numbers do not compare with those players you mentioned.
It's not only the offense, but also how they where used.
Calvin Johnson (3 years)
Career Receiving: 178 Rec, 2927 Yds, 16.4 Avg, 28 TD
Demaryius Thomas
(3 years)
Career Receiving: 120 Rec, 2339 Yds, 19.5 Avg, 15 TD
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Chan Gailey is the current head coach of the Buffalo Bills who run a quick, timing passing offense which has allowed them to have the best statistical performance protecting against sacks while having a shoddy offensive line. They threw the 10th-most passes in the league this year.
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That doesn't matter. Johnson was running NFL routes. And the more reps you get making catches the more ready you will be for the NFL.
Sure it matters. Stephen Hill is running NFL routes too. Why do you think he's skyrocketed up the WR rankings? Because he couldn't show that he can run NFL routes at the combine? All college WRs run NFL routes, it's just a matter of how well they do it. I'm impressed by how well he does it. I'm not alone. ( http://www.cbssports.com/print/nfl/story...a-techs-pro-day
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Johnson had 48 catches his freshman year. Hill had 49 in his three year college career.
*shrug* That means next to zero.
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Yes. His physical abilities.
About his ability to make big plays! You don't average more than 25 ypc without having skills. It doesn't matter if it's the ACC, Div-II or even Div-III football.
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There is nothing wrong with being a raw, uber-talented draft pick. I am a Stephen Hill fan, but he shouldn't be taken in the first round, unless it is determined he can already run the NFL routes successfully. The only way to determine that is watching game film. In his game film he doesn't run those routes because his team runs the ball every play. Another way to find out is to bring him in and work him out. But that would only put him against air on an empty field.
Blah, blah, blah. That's what RG3 did. That's what Andrew Luck did. It's what Blackmon will do. That's what they all do at their pro days.
Here's what Mayock has to say about his performance at the pro day. Interesting that the link comes from the Ravens website (I'm sure it was taken from NFL.com) but still. They like the kid and he's drawing a lot of interest. You bet your ass that if he's there at #22, the Browns should take him. Will they? I don't know. If you were the GM, they wouldn't and the Browns would continue to suck at the WR spot. Give us another receiver named Mohamed please! Are you one of those guys that want Sanu? That'll work for us! 
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Except that Hills numbers do not compare with those players you mentioned.
It's not only the offense, but also how they where used.
Calvin Johnson (3 years)
Career Receiving: 178 Rec, 2927 Yds, 16.4 Avg, 28 TD
Demaryius Thomas
(3 years)
Career Receiving: 120 Rec, 2339 Yds, 19.5 Avg, 15 TD
Actually, it was the offensive scheme that they used. Period.
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Why did he only produce one year out of his three at Georgia Tech?
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Chan Gailey is the current head coach of the Buffalo Bills who run a quick, timing passing offense which has allowed them to have the best statistical performance protecting against sacks while having a shoddy offensive line. They threw the 10th-most passes in the league this year.
And they still sucked canal water. After receiving his big contract, Ryan Fitzpatrick did next to nothing.
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Lol the point was that the offense was very different than the triple option.
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Why did he only produce one year out of his three at Georgia Tech?
It's the system.
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Except that Hills numbers do not compare with those players you mentioned.
It's not only the offense, but also how they where used.
Calvin Johnson (3 years)
Career Receiving: 178 Rec, 2927 Yds, 16.4 Avg, 28 TD
Demaryius Thomas
(3 years)
Career Receiving: 120 Rec, 2339 Yds, 19.5 Avg, 15 TD
Actually, it was the offensive scheme that they used. Period.
No that's incorrect. It's how they used Hill. Why is his average so high and he only had limited production at GT.
He was only used to run two routes ... The up and the post route. Both are the deepest routes on the tree.
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Lol the point was that the offense was very different than the triple option.
Oh, I know what the point was. And I'm not saying anything to the contrary. The offense under Gailey was different, but that hardly disproves my point that Hill's numbers are adversely effected by the system. Even in the triple option, the receivers run routes and Stephen Hill ran routes.
I stick to my viewpoint that he'll be a better pro WR than anyone else in the 2012 NFL draft class. Mock me and laugh all you want. It's the system. I don't expect that Hill will put up gaudy YPC numbers at the NFL like he did in college, but he's got a better chance of making big plays than most of the others.
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I'm not trying to mock or laugh at you. I was only saying that D Thomas can be used as a frame of reference but Calvin Johnson is irrelevant to the discussion, besides the fact that he is tall and fast. That's it. I agree that Hill's production is largely a product of the system he was in... Both the light reception total and the gaudy ypr average.
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No that's incorrect. It's how they used Hill. Why is his average so high and he only had limited production at GT.
Which is exactly because of the scheme.
He ran the "NFL" routes at the combine and again at his pro day. He did the short and mid-range routes because that's what the scouts wanted to see. He caught every ball thrown to him.
So, tell me why are teams like the 49ers, Rams, Ravens, Bears, Bills, Cincy, Steelers, Texans, Patriots, Giants, Raiders, Colts (just about every team in the league) is interested in this guy. I would not be surprised to see the Browns looking hard at him at #22, even if they do take Blackmon at #4.
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No that's incorrect. It's how they used Hill. Why is his average so high and he only had limited production at GT.
Which is exactly because of the scheme.
He ran the "NFL" routes at the combine and again at his pro day. He did the short and mid-range routes because that's what the scouts wanted to see. He caught every ball thrown to him.
So, tell me why are teams like the 49ers, Rams, Ravens, Bears, Bills, Cincy, Steelers, Texans, Patriots, Giants, Raiders, Colts (just about every team in the league) is interested in this guy. I would not be surprised to see the Browns looking hard at him at #22, even if they do take Blackmon at #4.
Demaryius Thomas played in the same system and was used to run other routes.
As I posted in another thread there are 9 basic routes on the passing tree and about 60 variations (including proper spacing that his system in college is a liability to also) in total.
I have never said that Hill can't learn to run those routes, it's just that he hasn't and there will be a learning curve, of that I have little doubt.
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Why did he only produce one year out of his three at Georgia Tech?
It's the system.
So it was the system's fault his first two years when he had no numbers? Then all of the sudden the system allowed him to score more?
I don't know why I am arguing with you. I like Stephen Hill. I just don't get how anyone can say he isn't raw.
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So it was the system's fault his first two years when he had no numbers? Then all of the sudden the system allowed him to score more?
He caught just 49 passes in 3 years because of the system. He was only a starter for one of those seasons, last year.
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Why didn't he start the other two years? Most of these big time wide receivers are starters the moment they commit to the school. Why was his best year the year before he entered the NFL draft?
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Why didn't he start the other two years? Most of these big time wide receivers are starters the moment they commit to the school. Why was his best year the year before he entered the NFL draft?
Oh. I must correct myself. He was a starter for two seasons. The season before last, he was also a starting receiver. He also led the team with 15 catches and 291 receiving yards!
Yeah, it was the system.
Even in his freshman year, when he caught only 6 passes, that placed third on the team in receptions. Demaryius Thomas led the team with 46 receptions and another receiver had 8, followed by Hill's 6 receptions.
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I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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