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After topping the Browns' bid to move up to No. 2 to draft Griffin III, the Redskins snatched up Garcon and Morgan on the first day of free agency with huge contracts that would've broken the Browns' bank.
How can we not have cap room?
I didn't even see that quote.
Beats me. I thought we had a lot of room and thought the Skins were being penalized for being over the cap?
It's funny world we live in.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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After topping the Browns' bid to move up to No. 2 to draft Griffin III, the Redskins snatched up Garcon and Morgan on the first day of free agency with huge contracts that would've broken the Browns' bank.
How can we not have cap room?
Perhaps they meant based on the kind of guys we've signed, and contracts we've given out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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After topping the Browns' bid to move up to No. 2 to draft Griffin III, the Redskins snatched up Garcon and Morgan on the first day of free agency with huge contracts that would've broken the Browns' bank.
How can we not have cap room?
Perhaps they meant based on the kind of guys we've signed, and contracts we've given out.
Yea,I read it as they were paid more than what the Browns were willing to offer.
“It doesn't make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do; we hire smart people so they can tell us what to do.” -Steve Jobs.
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Didn't know if this was posted but thought it was interesting: Quote:
Cleveland Browns pursued wide receivers Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan in free agency, source says
Published: Monday, March 26, 2012, 9:24 AM Updated: Monday, March 26, 2012, 11:56 AM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
AP fileThe Browns pursued former Mount Union star Pierre Garcon, but lost out to Washington, a league source says.
PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Robert Griffin III isn't the only big-name player the Redskins beat the Browns to this offseason.
They also landed two receivers the Browns pursued in free agency, a league source told the Plain Dealer: former Colts receiver Pierre Garcon and former 49ers receiver Josh Morgan.
After topping the Browns' bid to move up to No. 2 to draft Griffin III, the Redskins snatched up Garcon and Morgan on the first day of free agency with huge contracts that would've broken the Browns' bank.
Garcon, who played at Mount Union, received a five-year deal worth a $42.5 million, including $21.5 million guaranteed. And Morgan received a five-year deal that will most likely void to a two-year deal worth $12 million, with $7.5 million guaranteed.
The Browns went after both players in an effort to help Colt McCoy, who's the leading candidate right now to be their starting quarterback in 2012.
Last season, even without Peyton Manning, Garcon caught 70 passes for 947 yards and six TDs -- and would have been the perfect fit in the Browns West Coast offense.
"It's a great signing by the Redskins,'' former Colts general manager and ESPN analyst Bill Polian told NFL Live after the move. "He's got great size, great speed. Played at Division III Mount Union College just now is coming into his own in the NFL. He's got world-class speed. In the West Coast offense, where they look for guys who can catch the ball across the middle and run with it after the catch, Pierre Garcon is a perfect fit.''
Morgan was placed on injured reserve last season with a broken leg, but started 26 games in 2009-2010, catching 96 passes for 1,225 yards and five touchdowns.
So it's not that the Browns aren't trying this offseason to significantly upgrade their offense. It's just that the Redskins have been beating them to the punch.
LERNER NOT HERE: The Browns are being represented in league meetings by team President Mike Holmgren, and Browns owner Randy Lerner is not attending, a team spokesman said. Browns general manager Tom Heckert and coach Pat Shurmur are also attending.
© 2012 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/cleveland_browns_pursued_wide.html
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I know it makes me mad that we didn't ridiculously overpay for these two guys.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I know it makes me mad that we didn't ridiculously overpay for these two guys.
I'd have loved to have them and I understand not wanting to overpay,, but the article makes it sound as if we coudn't have paid that money given our CAP room... dunno if that's actually true,, but sounds right
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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we dont have the cap room everyone thinks. i haven't looked into it since parker signed, but if you set aside 8-10 mil for draft picks and UDFA's, then we had around 8 mil a year left. i kn ow since, we've signed a couple lower tier guys.
when this was going down, we could have got one of them.....yet, it would have prevented moves later on. we could easily make more cap room as we've got some guys making too much (im looking at you, sheldon). either way, its certainly not like we're sitting on 30 mil like most people think.
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Then something isn't quite adding up.
We have Thomas and Haden,those two should be making alot of money,given thier draft spot and the position they play.But who else?
A 4-12 team that doesn't have mega bucks to spend,isn't handling thier cap correctly.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Well, a guy's yearly salary and his cap number are two different things. So maybe that factors in?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Yeah this is an interesting theory. According to this link, we are currently on the books for 85.8 million dollars including bonuses and cap rollover for 2012. This is without Patterson and Rubin's contracts. Patterson signed for 3/$16.05M. Don't know bonus details or how it is distributed so we can approximate that as $5.35M per year. Rubin signed for 3/$26.5M. Again no details on bonus and distribution so call it $8.83M per year. Adding both of those guys puts us at $99.98M. According to this article, the salary cap for 2012 is $120.6M but you can borrow up to $2M against future cap years so it can go as high as $123M. That means we still have anywhere from $20.6M to $23.0M left to spend for this season including signing all our draft picks and UDFA guys. Just for a comparison, last year the 49ers were allotted just over $8M to sign their 12 draft picks. Based on all this, we should have anywhere from $12M-$15M still to spend per year available for FA.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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... just clicking...
Hmmm..... just a little reminder for making sounds decisions:: "Just because you CAN do something, is not an indicator that you SHOULD do it".
At this rate, we may have single-handedly destroyed the Redskins by getting them to grossly overpay for both Draft AND Free Agency.
They have traded away a TON of draft picks, and now even in the face of having a load of cap space stripped from them, they spend like they always have.
There's a realistic chance that in two years they won't have any high picks AND they'll be right back in Cap Hell.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Thank-you.
We need to cut Brown,Watson,Fujita &Gocong.
That would free up another 20mil,that we wouldn't spend.Putting us around 80mil for next year.Which is about right,considering the play on the field.
I'm liking this McCoy kid.He's less than a million against the cap,which is on par with his performance.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Gocong played pretty well once he got the SOLB slot.
Watson is a good TE if he can get past the concussions (might as well give him a shot to do it)
Sheldon, oh, Sheldon - no idea what to make of him. I don't like cutting him because there are worse options out there. I don't like starting him either though.
And Fujita, I agree.
#gmstrong
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Uhhh, who on Earth thinks Gocong could actually be cut this offseason?
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Uhhh, who on Earth thinks Gocong could actually be cut this offseason?
Some people enjoy creating holes so we can try to fill them some other way... you know, since we don't have enough holes already.
yebat' Putin
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Yeah, like Tom Heckert and Mike Holmgren.
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how many 1st round busts can the Bengals sign in one offseason? they want the record (does it belong to the Raiders?)
#gmstrong
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The NFL is a business,if a guy isn't earning his pay,he should be cut.
Gocong played decent,but not $5mil worth.
Watson,his play doesn't warrant a $5mil cap hit either.
3 of the top 7 paid players are LB'ers.That seems out of whack to me.
Thomas,Haden Jackson and Dawson are earning their pay.
As far as the QB,the Browns are paying the starter about 300k,and they are getting their moneys worth,the backup at 2mil,sorry he's not worth that.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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$5 million isn't a huge sum in the world of the NFL.
It's just slightly over 4% of the cap. (assuming a cap of $120 million) That's a pretty reasonable price for a veteran starter. Plus, Gocong actually played pretty well on the strong side when Fujita went down with injury.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Gocong played at a probowl level once moved to the strong side.
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Hmmm..... just a little reminder for making sounds decisions:: "Just because you CAN do something, is not an indicator that you SHOULD do it".
Hmmm...... not according to my wife's credit card statements.
#GMSTRONG
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"$5 million isn't a huge sum in the world of the NFL."
I don't know the salary structure of the NFL,but to pay each of your starting 3 LB's 5mil seems crazy.You say Gocong earned his pay,I'll go with that,but collectively this trio isn't worth 15mil.It isn't wise to pay any linebacking core on a 4-3 team that much.
For some unexplainable reason this salary cap issue bothers me and it shouldn't.It's not my money,but man,a 4-12 team should have 40-50mil in cap room.
It just seems like alot of people are getting overpaid.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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A 4-12 team will not be allowed to have hardly any available cap room left over. Neither will a 15-1 or 16-0 team.
The new CBA will eliminate that into the foreseeable future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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... just clicking...
Hmmm..... just a little reminder for making sounds decisions:: "Just because you CAN do something, is not an indicator that you SHOULD do it".
At this rate, we may have single-handedly destroyed the Redskins by getting them to grossly overpay for both Draft AND Free Agency.
They have traded away a TON of draft picks, and now even in the face of having a load of cap space stripped from them, they spend like they always have.
There's a realistic chance that in two years they won't have any high picks AND they'll be right back in Cap Hell.
Taking this thought and applying it to what the Redskins now must do, they didn't have any choice BUT to badly over-pay for receivers. They won't have any draft picks worth mentioning over the next couple of years to add true impact, low-risk players, so the only options were to put all their chips into the middle of the table right now and hope these guys can turn Griffin into a winner very quickly.
The Deadskins absolutely HAD to start getting these free agent players because they've put themselves into this position. If they weren't going to absolutely over-pay for free agents, it wouldn't make any sense to go after Griffin since they wouldn't be able to put any weapons around him.
So am I upset that the Browns weren't willing to outbid the Deadskins? No, I'm not. The 'Skins have already heavily mortgaged the farm on a high-risk proposition. Let them take the huge gamble where the odds really aren't very good. We're rebuilding. We'd be committing organizational suicide if we started paying top-dollar for middling talent.
Better them than us.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I didn't want RGIII for what the Redskins got for him. But to say they don't have draft picks "worth mentioning" in the next couple of years is wrong. They traded their first and second round picks this year, yes. But they still have their second round picks in 2013 and 2014. Second round picks are very valuable picks and often turn into pretty good players.
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I didn't want RGIII for what the Redskins got for him. But to say they don't have draft picks "worth mentioning" in the next couple of years is wrong. They traded their first and second round picks this year, yes. But they still have their second round picks in 2013 and 2014. Second round picks are very valuable picks and often turn into pretty good players.
BUT...if your first round picks are very high picks you look bad if your 1st rounds are lower or towards the middle then you look like youve made the right choice but youve also hurt yourself in the process. If your first 2nd round pick is say the 44th pick you are not helping your team with moves you have made.
I agree with OT on this one.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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"$5 million isn't a huge sum in the world of the NFL."
I don't know the salary structure of the NFL,but to pay each of your starting 3 LB's 5mil seems crazy.You say Gocong earned his pay,I'll go with that,but collectively this trio isn't worth 15mil.It isn't wise to pay any linebacking core on a 4-3 team that much.
For some unexplainable reason this salary cap issue bothers me and it shouldn't.It's not my money,but man,a 4-12 team should have 40-50mil in cap room.
It just seems like alot of people are getting overpaid.
so you dont know salary structure, but your absolutely fine making judgements about salaries, who deserves them and who should be cut? is "overpaid" a feeling, or are you well versed in appropriate player salaries?
15 mil for a LB corps? if you think thats alot for 3 players, then have a look at some elite LB contracts. wanna know the scary thing.....considering most people feel our LB corps is the weak link on defense, either you pony up even more money or draft them. the cap is around 126mil this year....i dont think we have an issue overpaying our linebackers. you cant pay everyone league minimum.
im also still trying to figure out how a teams record is proportional to their cap room. thats avery....interesting....idea.
Last edited by choco; 03/27/12 07:42 AM.
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Taking this thought and applying it to what the Redskins now must do, they didn't have any choice BUT to badly over-pay for receivers. They won't have any draft picks worth mentioning over the next couple of years to add true impact, low-risk players,
If we had been successful in our efforts to get the Second pick in the Draft, wouldnt we be in the exact same situation?
Now they have to over pay. if the guys work out,, Great, but at those numbers, how long can they keep a team together?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Heckert hasn't ruled out the possibility of getting Cedric Benson?
http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=777379-browns---could-add-cedric-benson
Would anyone be opposed to this? Benson did have a few nice seasons in Cincinnati.
If Benson still has some gas left in the tank, he'd be an "ok" starter, if only for a year.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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how many 1st round busts can the Bengals sign in one offseason? they want the record (does it belong to the Raiders?)
When was Terrence Newman drafted?
They're about to get him, too
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haha, he was top5 I believe.
#gmstrong
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I want no part of Cedric Benson. He hasn't really been very good in two years (he averaged 3.5 yards per carry in 2010 and 3.9 last year). He is not a receiving threat at all. And he's going to turn thirty late in the season.
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Normally I ignore posters with such a condescending attitude,but you kinda issued a challenge and that's something I can't ignore.
The Browns have 15mil in cap space towards thier 3 LB's,I thought that to be odd for a 4-3 team,you say that was normal and a bunch of other crap.
Let's lookat some other 4-3 teams;
Atlanta,(IDK who their starters are,so I took the top 4 LBs) 7.1mil for 4 LBs
The Saints,(IDK who their starters are,so I took the top 4 LBs) 11.9mil for 4 LBs
SanFran,(IDK who their starters are,so I took the top 4 LBs) 11.3mil for 4 LBs
Philly,(IDK who their starters are,so I took the top 4 LBs) 12.6mil for 4 LBs
The SuperBowl winning Giants,(IDK who their starters are,so I took the top 4 LBs) 13.4mil for 4 LBs
The Bears,their 3 starters count 16.5mil against the cap.
When it comes to paying,we and the Bears are in a different league.When it comes to playing,we're not in same league as any of those teams.
Again,for the production we get from our LBs,we are overpaying,by alot.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I don't get your point. At all. What do you want us to do?
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Iwant you and everyone you know to congratulate me on the great job I did in uncovering the salary cap shenanigans the Browns have been playing on us.
Or,you could do what people who know me do,just allow me to play alone out in left field.That's where I'm happiest.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I really don't think it matters... at this point, I am betting that Fujita will be a cut and  hopefully replaced with either a better/younger FA pickup at the cutdown or a Draft pickup. Gocong is worth the money he's getting if they keep him doing what was Fujitas old job.. and DQ is worth the money. So really, it may seem high (and it really is) I don't think you are looking at the finished product yet. So let's see where it ends up..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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