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Browns reportedly outbid for Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan Posted by Josh Alper on March 26, 2012, 11:40 AM EDT According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, they are now 0-for-3 on that front. We all know about the Redskins coming up with a more compelling trade package for the Rams’ second overall pick which everyone expects will turn into Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III. Cabot now brings word that two of the guys Griffin will throw to were also on the Browns’ radar screen. Per the report, Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan were both pursued by the Browns before landing with the Redskins on the first day of free agency. Garcon signed a five-year deal worth $42.5 million with more than $21 million in guaranteed money. Morgan’s deal can also reach five years, but it is voidable after two seasons and comes with $7.5 million in guarantees. The Browns haven’t shown much sign that they’re spending that kind of money in free agency so it is hard to say just how serious their pursuit of the two wide receivers got before they landed in Washington. The Browns haven’t signed any other free agent wide receivers since missing out on Garcon and Morgan, leaving them with Greg Little, Josh Cribbs and Mohamed Massaquoi as their top three wideouts. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...nd-josh-morgan/ Interesting insight to our "plans" if any of it is true. Don't have a problem with the fact we didn't over pay these guys with the crazy money being thrown around but it does indicate they were probably trying to eliminate the urgent WR need early in the draft. At least NO one will know what we are doing come draft day 
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
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Post deleted by brownsfansince79
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Dang, I just posted this in the Free Agent thread.. sorry bout that
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Where does it say in the story that we outbid for these guys?
it's really saying that the Skins paid more than we could have..in a sense, we were outbid for them...
Oh, the title says it also
Last edited by Damanshot; 03/26/12 12:40 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Duh, I totally misread that. That is 100% my fault. What a moron.
I read it as saying that we offered more money but they still went to the 'Skins. What a dummy.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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"Outbid" kinda makes it sound like we offered all that we had but someone offered more. Whereas, I would suspect that we established a ceiling that we were willing to pay and no more. Some one else just had a higher ceiling they were willing to pay.
Would that sound right?
SaintDawg™
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I thought both were grossly overpaid - so I don't mind missing out.
That being said, there are still a lot of fish in the pond right now, I would hope we don't stay completely silent over the next three weeks.
~Lyuokdea
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Yes, it makes perfect sense. Like I said, I just totally misread it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Oh shoot, I wasn't worried about any mis-reading. I'm just shaking my head at the media that thinks we got out-hustled again. Like I said, I'm of the opinion we had an upper limit that we were interested in spending.. past that, we were not that interested.
SaintDawg™
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Gotcha.
Yeah, it's essentially "hey, look, the Redskins spent big money on a guy, so it's obvious the Browns suck."
Ignoring that this is the Redskins we're talking about.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Dang, I just posted this in the Free Agent thread.. sorry bout that
That's where it belongs . . .
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Dan Snyder will not be out-done.
On top of that, Washington is a more attractive city than Cleveland... thems the breaks.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Dan Snyder will not be out-done.
On top of that, Washington is a more attractive city than Cleveland... thems the breaks.
well, even after he lost some of his cap this year, he still had a pretty hefty number to play with. he's not afraid to use it.. Cleveland managment seems to be a bit more conservative in thier use of CAP dollars.
As for Washington being more attractive. there are 545 elected or appointed officials who are directly or indirectly responsible for ruining this great nation that live there at least part time,, would you want to be close to any of them? 
I get your drift however. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm pretty sure it's supposed to say that the Browns got outbid.
Either that or receivers really don't want to come to Cleveland. And let's be real, why would they?
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Just more reason to take 2 WRs in the first!
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Quote:
Dan Snyder will not be out-done.
On top of that, Washington is a more attractive city than Cleveland... thems the breaks.
After spending time in both cities, anybody that thinks DC is a more attractive place to live...needs their head examined.
Snyder is a fool. He now thinks that RGIII is going to put him over the top. Just like he did with guys like Haynesworth, McNabb and others. The guy is
trying to buy a championship.
Paying Garcon what he did is assinine. The guy is a number three reciever, and maybe good enough for a number two.
People might hate that Heckert isn't getting these guys, but I for one am glad he is not dumping the money like Washington is.
Silly money will always win out.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Paying Garcon what he did is assinine. The guy is a number three reciever, and maybe good enough for a number two.
People might hate that Heckert isn't getting these guys, but I for one am glad he is not dumping the money like Washington is.
Silly money will always win out.
That I agree with.
Quote:
After spending time in both cities, anybody that thinks DC is a more attractive place to live...needs their head examined.
Lived in the DC area for 7 years. I have lived in Northwest Ohio for the last 30 years. I love Ohio but the DC area has a lot more to offer than Cleveland.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Sorry, but if we take 2 WR in the 1st round, Heckert should be fired on the spot.
You won't fix this team with 2 WRs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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2nd String
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Blackmon and Wright coupled with Little would be pretty good, not sure why that would be a huge deal.
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Without a QB, receivers are useless.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Blackmon and Wright coupled with Little would be pretty good, not sure why that would be a huge deal.
I brought this up a while back, I wouldnt have a problem with us picking up both of these guys in round one, and picking up a back in the 2nd...I like Edwin Baker from michigan state, I see him as a poor mans Ray Rice.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
Without a QB, receivers are useless.
and without receivers a QB is worthless. Oh add in a line and RB as well just for good measure. 
YTB sometimes I get a strong feeling that no matter what the Browns draft this year your not going be happy because they didnt get RG3. I may be wrong and really hope I am but we need playmakers on this team and although Ill give you the QB is the most important, its not the ONLY pos that needs to be addressed.
This year we made the attempt so its not like they didnt try. They just didnt give up more then anyone ever in the history of the NFL has ever offered to move up...
Wait for it.......2 spots.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I would love to get both them as the back part is Smith even still on the team? He had some wheels for sure.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
Without a QB, receivers are useless.
Absolutely true. Problem is the only QB left for us to possibly acquire is Tannehill.
So at this rate, unless we draft Tannehill AND he becomes a 1st year stud (I'm fine with us drafting him but the 2nd part is highly unlikely) then we're already playing for 2013.
Might as well acquire the best talent available for when we get our franchise QB in 2013 (hopefully) even if it means it doesn't translate to a ton of wins immediately in 2012.
Remember we're on the 13 year plan here...
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I think Smith can be better and we all know he has some serious speed, match him up with a powerback like Baker, and we would have a nice young 1-2 punch, while having a WR core of Blackmon, Little, Wright, Cribbs, and Norwood....and maybe keep MoMass around as a 6thWR.
This teams isnt as far off as alot of people think. And I think McCoy will improve with a full off season, gotta at least have some faith in our guys. I wanted RG3 but there are 5 ppl in this draft I would be happy with, well make that 4 now that its pretty much a done deal that RG3 is going to Washington.....in no order T-Rich, Blackmon, Claiborne, and Wright
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Quote:
Quote:
Without a QB, receivers are useless.
and without receivers a QB is worthless. Oh add in a line and RB as well just for good measure.
YTB sometimes I get a strong feeling that no matter what the Browns draft this year your not going be happy because they didnt get RG3. I may be wrong and really hope I am but we need playmakers on this team and although Ill give you the QB is the most important, its not the ONLY pos that needs to be addressed.
This year we made the attempt so its not like they didnt try. They just didnt give up more then anyone ever in the history of the NFL has ever offered to move up...
Wait for it.......2 spots.
[purple]
Yeah we should just ignore the WR position, because we didn't get Griffen, so what the heck could we possibly need WR's for?
Maybe the next QB for the team can beat his way down the field with a club 3 yards at a crack. He won't need no stinking receivers either. [/purple]
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Im just curious so thought I would ask. Would you rather have Blackmon X player at 22 and Baker? or T-Rich- Wright or Floyd and XX player at 37?
Im more on the 1st option then the 2nd but wondered what your thoughts were on which you liked better. Im not so sure either of the other WR's will fall to us at 22 which kinda scares me if we take T-Rich.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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this is one year I dont think we can mess up too much.....That is an interesting look at things...how about this tho
Draft Blackmon at 4, then trade back into the top 10 and get T-Rich.......maybe use 22 and next years 1 to pull the trade off.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Meh.....Garcon is ok as long as their are better targets on the field. He can play well when there is no pressure on him to be a #1 or #2. Plus, Indy fans were sick and tired of his drops. I'd rather take a 2nd WR in the 4th round than sign Pierre (assuming we take a WR higher too). And as for Qunicy Morgan, talk about stone hands. We already had him. Waste. I wouldn't have signed him for anything. 
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Quote:
this is one year I dont think we can mess up too much.....That is an interesting look at things...how about this tho
Draft Blackmon at 4, then trade back into the top 10 and get T-Rich.......maybe use 22 and next years 1 to pull the trade off.
Yeah I agree dont think we can really mess this one up too much either. I would really have no problem moving back up and using the 22 and 37 and perhaps a 4th next year or atlantas 4th this year but not for our first next year.
If we walked away with Blackmon and T-Rich in this draft most people wont care to much about what we get rounds 4-7 anyway, they will be players to fill holes and add backup talent.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
Quote:
Without a QB, receivers are useless.
and without receivers a QB is worthless. Oh add in a line and RB as well just for good measure.
YTB sometimes I get a strong feeling that no matter what the Browns draft this year your not going be happy because they didnt get RG3. I may be wrong and really hope I am but we need playmakers on this team and although Ill give you the QB is the most important, its not the ONLY pos that needs to be addressed.
This year we made the attempt so its not like they didnt try. They just didnt give up more then anyone ever in the history of the NFL has ever offered to move up...
Wait for it.......2 spots.
Trust me, I'm not happy that we didn't get RG3. I think that we should have done whatever we needed to in order to get a franchise quality QB. We evidently tried, and failed. Again.
That being said, we aren't getting him, so we have to do the best we can with what we have.
If a different QB is a significant upgrade, then we should get him. If he is not, then we should stay away and suffer through this year with what we have.
We can add receivers and whatever else we want to, but it is my opinion that it's like putting beautiful alloy wheels on a '72 Pinto. It might look good from one angle or another ..... but you still have a Pinto.
If we build this year's team around a premium RB, then we might win 7 or 8 games. If we try to build it around McCoy again, we'll probably win 4-5 games. Yippee. That's a surefire way to see this front office replaced.
Last year all I heard was how McCoy couldn't do his job last year because of the Hillis situation, and how he couldn't succeed without a great running game. I agree. I don't think that he'll be successful period, but he might be somewhat better if we have a strong running game for him to fall back on. What I find ironic is that now people feel like we can, again, throw any schlub in there and have a good enough running game for McCoy to be successful. 
I want a premium QB ..... and I am worried that we won;t get one anytime in the next 4 or 5 years. By that point, all of these lovely draft picks we have accumulated will be gone ..... and we'll be starting over again. I am terrified of getting into 7-9 limbo, where we are unable to make a move for a great QB, and we stay stuck in 4th place, year after year, with an ocasional "great" year where we get to 3rd, or maybe even 2nd place.
As far as how many spots they tried to move up, that's irrelevant. The player is what matters. Is the player worth the price paid? I believe he was ..... but we lost ... again ..... a longstanding tradition around here.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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Quote:
Remember we're on the 13 year plan here...
2022!!!! 
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I can feel your pain my friend but its not as bleak as you right now may think. First off if we get the shiny new RB or we go WR and depend on McCoy either way we will see something. Progression. Thats the key progress helps a team address areas of need. Thats what you are doing at this moment however you only focusing on 1 area and we have many areas that need to be addressed.
Now I cant discount the fact that they (the FO) also see's your 1 area as a place they want to focus on but this year was a different game. The Rams wanted so badly to get outta that spot that they said "Give me your best offer to move up" our offer was in line with what should have been a great in fact more then I would have offerd and Washington went over the top of that.
That has never happened before where a team says you give me your best we are taking whatever is the best. Normally you have teams working one against the other we never had a chace to counter offer. Happens sometimes that way sometimes but in any given year (esp next year) we will again be in pos to stand pat and get a QB we like or move up if need be.
Heres the thing I dont think even if we got RG3 we would have won more then 6 games next year then without a first next year 8 games after that. With the picks we have this year I still dont expect us to win more then 8 games next year and be able to move up and still get a great franchise QB.
Im not scared of 7-9 because of an elite RB or WR or QB play Im scared of 3-13 or 5-11 because of poor coaching. The first can be addressed the 2nd as you said forces yet another rebuild.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
If we build this year's team around a premium RB, then we might win 7 or 8 games. If we try to build it around McCoy again, we'll probably win 4-5 games.
No offense, but I'm sick of people saying something along those lines.... So, I decided it was time to get out the facts.
1. A premium RB only sells Jerseys.
2. The amount of RB yards(including injuries) with a winning season (for the Browns) is irrelevant compared to two or more WR’s yards.
3. The only 2 winning seasons The Browns have together in the past decade are the ones where we had multiple receivers over 1000 yards or 3 or 4 over 500 (which would be 2 over 1,000) generating over 2000 yards of combined results
4. Every single year for the past decade the Browns have managed to get a RB (position) over 1,000 yards either by committee (injuries) or by an individual.
see facts below
Browns 2011 4-12-0
RB by injury Committee
RB: Peyton Hillis: 587 injury 3 tds 130 Receiving yards
Montario Haresty 266 injury 122 Receiving yards
Chris Ogbonnaya 334 1 td 165 Receiving yards
*RB combined 1187 yards rushing 417 yards receiving yards
Top WR Greg Little 709 yards 2 td's
Browns Record 2010 Record: 5-11-0
RB: Peyton Hillis: 1177 rushing yards 11td's 477 receiving yards 2 tds
Top WR:
Mohamed Massaquoi 483 yards 2 td's
2009 Record: 5-11-0,
Jamal Lewis 500 yards 0 td's 88 receiving yards (injury)
Harrison 862 yards rushing 5 td's 220 yards receiving 2 td's (injury Replacement)
*RB combined over 1362 yards rushing 308 receiving yards 2 tds
top receiver Mohamed Massaquoi 624 yards 3 td's
2008
Jamal Lewis 1304 yards 9 td's 248 receiving yards 2 tds
Top WR
Braylon Edwards 873 yards 3 td’s
2007 Record 10-6-0 (finished first in AFC North Division)
Jamal Lewis 1002 yards 4 tds 178 receiving yards
Top WR: Braylon Edwards 1289 16 tds
* Kellen Winslow 1106 yards 5 td's
Joe Jurevicius 614 yards 3 td’s
2006 Record 4-12-0
Reuben Droughns 758 yards 4 td's 169 receiving yards
top WR
Braylon Edwards 884 yards 6 td's
2005 Record 6-10-0
Reuben Droughns 1232 yards 2 td's 369 receiving yards
Top WR
Antonio Bryant 1009 yards 4 td's
Braylon Edwards 512 yards 3 td's
2004 Record 4-12-0
Top RB Lee Suggs 744 rushing 2 td’s 178 receiving 1 td
William Green 585 rushing 2 td's 84 receiving
Total yards 1329 4 td’s 262 receiving 1 td
Top WR
Dennis Northcutt 806 receiving 2 td's
2003 Record 5-11-0
Top RB
William Green 559 rushing 1 td 50 receiving injury
James Jackson 382 rushing 3 td 114 receiving injury
Jamel White 266 rushing 1 td 303 receiving 1 td injury
Lee Suggs 289 rushing 2 td injury
total yards 1496 rushing yards 7 td's 467 receiving 1 td
Top WR
Dennis Northcutt 729 yards 2 td's
2002 Record 9-7-0 (last playoff appearance)
Top RB
William Green 887 rushing 6 tds 113 receiving
Jamel White 470 rushing 3 tds 452 receiving
Total yards combined 1357 9 td’s and 565 reveiving
Top WR
Quincy Morgan 964 yards 7 td's
Kevin Johnson 703 4 tds
Dennis Northcutt 601 5 td's
Andre' Davis 420 receiving yards 6 td's
Why do some people insist on hitting the same brick wall, in the same place, for the past decade, and firmly expecting they will knock it down with a wet noodle as their weapon?
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Do you have this same type of information for all NFL teams? To use only 1 team is a small sample size.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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This is for the Cleveland Browns (the only team that matters) 10 years really isn't that small of a sample  I had to do the research (which took me hours) just for our team
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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I meant sample size of 1 team vs. other teams. I realize you're looking at Browns seasons vs. Browns seasons, but I wonder if it plays out this way in most cases across the league. I'd guess that the better/best teams are those that can both run and pass well or at least do either when the situation calls for it.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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A great RB can help make a bad team competitive. A great running game isn't going to propel a team into the Super Bowl anymore, but you can use a great running game like the Texans did last year, to carry a bad QB to win a few games. (and yes the Texans did carry their rookie starter at the end of the year) They got by with him throwing for about 160 yards in the 6 games in which he appeared. He threw 3 TD passes and 3 INT, yet the Texans won 2 of his 5 starts, plus they won the game in which he has to relieve an injured Matt Leihart.
This kid would have been an 0-6 afterthought on our team. The Texans running game and defense let them stay in games even without their starting QB, but when the playoffs hit, bad QB play is exposed.
We don't have to worry about that, because we can't even sniff .500, and we won't scoring 13 PPG.
It would be nice to get to even approaching .500. It would be nice to score more than 2 TD per game. The only guy that can almost guarantee that this happens is Richardson.
Look at the Jaguars. When they just got competent QB play, they could win with a strong run game and a strong defense. They weren't a team to go deep into the playoffs, but at least they could have a winning season now and then.
The Niners were built on running the ball and defense. Again, not a team built to go deep in the playoffs, (even though they actually did make the NFC Championship Game) but a team that was able to win their division.
As far as using the Browns as an example of anything ...... when is the last time we had even just a professional passing game in Cleveland. Other than the one anomaly by Anderson, I would argue that you have to go back to the days of Kosar.
Oh, and in 2007 we finished tied for the AFCN lead with the Steelers, but were 2nd (and the Wildcard) due to 2 (eventually 3) losses to them. That year Jamal Lewis ran for 1304 yards and 9 TDs for the Browns.
I really hate having to argue for a running game, because it really does go against what I accept as modern day dogma as far as winning Super Bowls in today's NFL ..... but we are so far away from winning a Super Bowl that we need to just start winning games before anything else. I look at the guys we might have available to us at 4, and the guy I think has the best chance to be truly great is Richardson. I think that he will help whatever scrub QBs we have until we finally are able to find a franchise level guy. (whatever decade/century that is)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 5
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,647 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
when is the last time we had even just a professional passing game in Cleveland. Other than the one anomaly by Anderson, I would argue that you have to go back to the days of Kosar.
I don't think there's any question of that being the case. Testeverde had a solid season or two, but for a consistent passing game, it really does -sadly- go all the way back to Bernie.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
when is the last time we had even just a professional passing game in Cleveland. Other than the one anomaly by Anderson, I would argue that you have to go back to the days of Kosar.
I don't think there's any question of that being the case. Testeverde had a solid season or two, but for a consistent passing game, it really does -sadly- go all the way back to Bernie.
let's not forget Holcomb's blip too.
#gmstrong
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