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Beause theres a difference between a group of crappy RBs combining for 1k yards...

And your Rookie RB beasting it for 1k yards...




That's pretty optimistic considering the crappy right side of our line.




Well, one member of the Crappy right side is gone so it's pretty obvious we have a plan or an idea of what needs done to correct that. So, maybe a WR in the second round, at RT in the Late 1st round and Richardson will do the trick to get us to 8 wins.


A man can dream right? LOL




I hope it goes this way. If Heckert views it the same on draft day we will be be closer to 8-9 wins than 4-5 next year. I've got my finger's crossed.

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Beause theres a difference between a group of crappy RBs combining for 1k yards...

And your Rookie RB beasting it for 1k yards...




That's pretty optimistic considering the crappy right side of our line.




Well, one member of the Crappy right side is gone so it's pretty obvious we have a plan or an idea of what needs done to correct that. So, maybe a WR in the second round, at RT in the Late 1st round and Richardson will do the trick to get us to 8 wins.


A man can dream right? LOL




I hope it goes this way. If Heckert views it the same on draft day we will be be closer to 8-9 wins than 4-5 next year. I've got my finger's crossed.




I keep looking for all the problems everyone says we have with Colt McCoy.. and they are there,, no question about it. Can't deny it. But I also see that he can make all the throws, but he didn't do it on a consistent basis.

I'm not good enough about the game to know why that is.

But this is what I'm sure of, with a RB that gets it done, something we didnt' have last year. With a couple of WR's that catch the ball. and if the Right side of the line can improve. Honestly, I do see that it's possible for us to score an average of 21 points. Believe it or not, 21 points a game last year would have meant a 10-6 record....


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But this is what I'm sure of, with a RB that gets it done, something we didnt' have last year. With a couple of WR's that catch the ball. and if the Right side of the line can improve. Honestly, I do see that it's possible for us to score an average of 21 points. Believe it or not, 21 points a game last year would have meant a 10-6 record....


I believe Childress will have a significant impact alone in scoring more points as well as the positional upgrades you speak of. 21 points doesn't seem to be asking too much but if you dig down a little, I believe a Pat Shurmer offense in St Louis or his first year here has scored 21 points 4 or 5 games over three seasons. 5 out of 48 games is awfully low..Both teams were talent deprived and the training wheels were on. Last year we had the Lockout, learning a new system, some injuries and we play in the toughest division in football. There is only one way to go and that is up and with Childress. a second year in the system, an offseason, and a solid draft and hopefully some healthy players for a change I don't think 21 points a game is out of the question.


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It would only mean 10-6 if our opponents didn't shut it down by the time the 4th quarter rolled around. You can't assume that the games wouldn't be played differently if we were producing twice as many points as we actually did.

FWIW, 21 points per game last season would've put us between the Vikings and Dolphins, the teams picking 3rd and 8th in the draft.

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Believe it or not, 21 points a game last year would have meant a 10-6 record....





Only in the most superficial of ways of looking at things.

Teams shut it down against us in the second half of games last year. I detailed at least 5 different games where teams simply stopped taking any chanced at all throwing the ball after halftime, and it got even worse following the 1st drive following halftime.

That wouldn't happen if our offense wasn't so anemic. Teams wouldn't say "we have a 10 point lead, and as long as we don't screw up, there's no way the Browns can overcome that deficit".

Things would have been far, far different if we'd had a competent offense.

This is not to say that I am down on our defense, because I'm not. However, our defense is overrated by a great number of fans. I think that they will be good in time, maybe even this year, but "great" defenses don't give up 132, 290, 147, 74, 162, and 161 yards rushing as we did in our final 6 games of the season. There was only 1 quality performance in that stretch ...... and the sad part is that we knew those teams were going to run on us.


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It would only mean 10-6 if our opponents didn't shut it down by the time the 4th quarter rolled around.




If If If.... I said,, as clearly as I could, based on the final scores of last years games, we'd have won 10 games had we been able to score 21 points.

What will happen next season? Hell if I know. Maybe our D will totally fall apart and we'll need to score 40 a game to win 10..

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FWIW, 21 points per game last season would've put us between the Vikings and Dolphins, the teams picking 3rd and 8th in the draft.




WOW,, do some simple math here. if we'd have scored 21 points a game last year, we'd have won 10 games... or so it appears..

YES, of course, there is ALWAYS the chance that teams would have done something different and stopped us.. Yes, it's NO guarantee....


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.Here is a nice breakdown of Arm Strength.

QB Arm Strength

Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2012
Posted on March 12, 2012 by ProScoutDan

Brandon Weeden 2012

Ourlads’ Guide to the NFL Draft is the only source that gives the number for the quarterback’s velocity at the NFL Combine. Velocity is measured by a radar gun in miles per hour.

YEAR: 2012

Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State 59

Kirk Cousins, Michigan State 59

Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi 58

Nick Foles, Arizona 57

Chandler Harnish, Northern Illinois 57

Jordan Jefferson, LSU 57

Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 55

Casey Keenum, Houston 55

Patrick Witt, Yale 54

Darron Thomas, Oregon 53

Ryan Lindley, San Diego State 52

Kellen Moore, Boise State 52

Jacory Harris, Miami 50

Aaron Corp, Richmond 50

BJ Coleman, Tennessee-Chattanooga Did not throw

Robert Griffin III, Baylor Did not throw

Andrew Luck, Stanford Did not throw

Brock Osweiler, Arizona State Did not throw

Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M Did not throw

Andy Dalton 2011

YEAR: 2011

Colin Kaepernick, Nevada 59

Ryan Mallett, Arkansas 58

Patrick Devlin, Delaware 56

Andy Dalton, TCU 56

Cam Newton, Auburn 56

Scott Tolzien, Wisconsin 55

Nathan Enderle, Idaho 54

Jake Locker, Washington 54

TJ Yates, North Carolina 52

Christian Ponder, Florida St 51

Ricky Stanzi, Iowa 50

Tyrod Taylor, Va Tech 50

Greg McElroy, Alabama Did not throw

Blaine Gabbert, Missouri Did not throw



John Skelton 2010

YEAR: 2010

Levi Brown, Troy 56

Colt McCoy, Texas 56 (Did not throw at Combine. Throw was recorded at a private workout with a Radar Gun & Computer Chip in Ball.

Max Hall, BYU 52

Tim Hiller, Western Michigan 52

Michael Kafka, Northwestern 52

Zac Robinson, Oklahoma St. 52

Jevan Snead, Mississippi 52

Sean Canfield, Oregon St. 51

Jarrett Brown, West Virginia 50

John Skelton, Fordham 50

Dan LeFevour, Central Michigan 49

Tony Pike, Cincinnati 49

Armanti Edwards, Appalachian St. 46.5

Sam Bradford, Oklahoma Did not throw

Jimmy Clausen,Notre Dame Did not throw

Jonathan Crompton, Tennessee Did not throw

Tim Tebow, Florida Did not throw



Josh Freeman 2009

YEAR: 2009

John Wilson Parker, Alabama 58

Mike Reilly, Central Washington 58

Drew Willy, Buffalo 58

Mark Sanchez, Southern Cal 57

Josh Freeman, Kansas State 57

Chase Daniels, Missouri 57

Nate Davis, Ball State 56

Curtis Painter, Purdue 56

Rhett Bomar, Sam Houston State 55

Tom Brandstetter, Fresno State 53

Cullen Harper, Clemson 53

Stephen McGee, Texas A & M 53

Graham Harrell, Texas Tech 52

Pat White, West Virginia 52

Matt Stafford, Georgia Did not throw



Joe Flacco 2008

YEAR 2008:

Paul Smith, Tulsa 57

Joe Flacco, Delaware 55

Kevin O’Connell, San Diego St 55

Brian Brohm, Louisville 53

Chad Henne, Michigan 53

Erik Ainge, Tennessee 52

John David Booty, Southern Cal 51

Matt Flynn, LSU 50

Josh Johnson, San Diego 49

Colt Brennan, Hawaii 44

Dennis Dixon, Oregon Did not throw

Matt Ryan, Boston College Did not throw

Andre Woodson, Kentucky Did not throw


I was bored(draft can't get here fast enough ) and went back and wanted to see the amount of time it took that 56 yard pass from Colt to Little in the air and try to find a comparison and I came across one with Roethlesberger..Both QB's unloaded it and thought it it would be a good measuring stick because neither were touch throws and both had a clean pocket..just a comparison for fun..take it for what it is worth.

It took the ball going 56 yards in flight from Colt's hand to Greg little 3 seconds in this video at 46 seconds. From the 30 yard line down to the 9 from 49 seconds to 52 seconds in the video
Roethlesburger threw a 56 yard pass which took 3 seconds in the air..from the 361/2 yard line to the 71/2 at 6-9 seconds on the video

Done with a stopwatch(yes, really bored) McCoys traveled that distance in 2.67 seconds and Roethlesbergers the same distance in 2.88..



Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 04/02/12 02:57 PM.

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That cinches it... McCoy doesn't have enough arm.


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Interesting numbers on the radar.

So McCoy has the same arm strength as Cam Newton (56) and he is 6 mph stronger than Matt Flynn (50)?

Surprising to say the least.


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That cinches it... McCoy doesn't have enough arm.




He needs to hit the locker room he is all washed up


in all honesty, I have a feeling that Colt is going to be a big producer this year if he starts.


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That cinches it... McCoy doesn't have enough arm.




He needs to hit the locker room he is all washed up


in all honesty, I have a feeling that Colt is going to be a big producer this year if he starts.




He can make the throws,, just need more Littles to catch them...


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At around 3:11 of that video is a 24 yard out from the opposite hash..by many to be considered the toughest ball to throw and claimed by some a throw that McCoy can't make..sorry this is slow and it wouldn't let me edit my other post to add this.


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At around 3:11 of that video is a 24 yard out from the opposite hash..by many to be considered the toughest ball to throw and claimed by some a throw that McCoy can't make..sorry this is slow and it wouldn't let me edit my other post to add this.




and he threw to the left side of the field


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At around 3:11 of that video is a 24 yard out from the opposite hash..by many to be considered the toughest ball to throw and claimed by some a throw that McCoy can't make..sorry this is slow and it wouldn't let me edit my other post to add this.




and he threw to the left side of the field


Imagine that..a double whammy on one play..


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At around 3:11 of that video is a 24 yard out from the opposite hash..by many to be considered the toughest ball to throw and claimed by some a throw that McCoy can't make..sorry this is slow and it wouldn't let me edit my other post to add this.




Let's be very clear about what the term "a throw that player-X can't make" means. It never means the player cannot make the throw. The term means a throw that the player can or cannot make consistently.

Charlie Frye could make all the throws. Charlie Frye could not make all the NFL throws consistently.


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which I agree. so far, Colt has not been consistent enough with his throws and reads.

however, it's also why I get so up in arms when people want to replace him by using our #4 pick on one of the more inconsistent college guys (Tannehill)


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Sometimes, you just can't get a QB and have to wait for another time.

(that means i'm right there with you in not reaching for tannehill just because we don't have a franchise guy )


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Let's be very clear about what the term "a throw that player-X can't make" means. It never means the player cannot make the throw. The term means a throw that the player can or cannot make consistently.

Charlie Frye could make all the throws. Charlie Frye could not make all the NFL throws consistently.



Believe it or not Toad, I think some jump on a band wagon and think he really can't make the throw. Which is obviously not the case and as far as consistency goes, that would be determined by how many he attempted, were dropped, were not catchable, etc. Hard to be judged on how consistent you are if the play is not consistently run or there. Pressure and the receiver beating coverage would also play a part on a timing pattern. I could understand that being an argument but I think that is hard to judge unless you are in practice or know how many times that play was run vs completed. At any rate the whole noodle arm argument has no basis and proved in three different examples. If I wanted to pick McCoy apart I would look at the timing..but he even improved on that at the end of the year and should more so with an offseason, training camp and a second year in the system with hopefully better protection from the right and a couple fresh new receivers that get into camp on time.

Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 04/02/12 05:39 PM.

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The thing is...Colt NEVER was considered even a potential franchise QB by 32 teams...all 32 teams passed him 2 or 3 times, including us in an incredibly weak QB class

From a talent standpoint it's not even close between Tannehill and Colt...and the draft is all about upgrading your TEAM...sure when can upgrade the RB position by selecting Richardson...but we can do the same by selecting another RB in the 3rd or 4th...would a 3rd or 4th round QB upgrade our QB situation though? We can even upgrade RB significantly via FA still (Addai, Grant and Benson are still out there and we're pretty much the only team left whithout a sure no1 RB...many teams have 2 already)...can we upgrade QB via FA? No...when measuring value for a TEAM and upgrades for said team you always have to factor in position scarcity too...the draft like FA is all about UPGRADING your needs....and Tannehill is an upgrade over Colt just as Martin/Miller/Wilson/Turbin is over Hardesty...do you see a QB that you can select in the 2nd to 4th though that is an upgrade to Colt?

People still act as if pick 4 is all we have...you should NEVER look from pick to pick when preparing for a draft...you don't pick in a vacuum...this kind of thinking leads to Mack in the 1st and bust the rest of the draft playing catch up at higher value positions


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I get your point Django but I still disagree with it. I would still rather take a Richardson or a Blackmon, a guy that I am about as certain as I can be, that he will provide a HUGE upgrade to a position and solidify it for years to come rather than take a big risk on Tannehill at #4 and then get much milder upgrades at other spots.

I also agree with you about position scarcity which his why if you are going to go QB high, then you better be darn sure because you are married to that decision for 2 or 3 years.. if you take Blackmon or Richardson and they turn out to be a total waste after 1 year, you can try to find something in FA.. if you take Tannehill and he is just marginally better than McCoy, you still aren't going to replace him after 1 year..

If we take Tannehill at #4 and he is not on a top 10 NFL qb trajectory in 3 years, we will be having this conversation again in 2015.. and that is just a scary freakin thought.


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Actually Colt was a projected late first -2nd rounder. Gil Brandt came out and said he is a top ten pick. His shoulder and nerve damage had as much to do with him slipping than anything. When he got plugged in his rookie year I think I remember him saying his shoulder was at 80% and believe he said he felt healthy last year for the first time. As far as Talent..that is a matter of one man's opinion and you certainly are entitled to yours. If you want to look at their Careers being in the same conference, their 40's, how many rushing yards, passing yards, completion %, TD-int ratio, big games won..I can't think of one that Tannehill would take the edge in. He is a decent looking QB if he can sit for a year or 2, but by no means is he a upgrade over McCoy..


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At around 3:11 of that video is a 24 yard out from the opposite hash..by many to be considered the toughest ball to throw and claimed by some a throw that McCoy can't make..sorry this is slow and it wouldn't let me edit my other post to add this.




Let's be very clear about what the term "a throw that player-X can't make" means. It never means the player cannot make the throw. The term means a throw that the player can or cannot make consistently.

Charlie Frye could make all the throws. Charlie Frye could not make all the NFL throws consistently.





I agree with you Toad,, McCoy can and has shown the ability to make about any throw, but consistency is the problem.

The difference to me is that he's not been schooled properly in the WCO. I think he had to think too much.. instead of it coming naturally.

I think he's smart enough,,, physically, he's capable.. so let him learn then judge him...


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That cinches it... McCoy doesn't have enough arm.




He needs to hit the locker room he is all washed up


in all honesty, I have a feeling that Colt is going to be a big producer this year if he starts.




Its not an IF he starts. It's a WHEN he starts. I know our FO has been hard pressed to find a better QB or at least some competition for McCoy. However, they have all stated that Colt will be our starter this year. I'm not going to be bold and state that he will light it up this year, but, I will say I am confident that he will have better numbers with better talent around him and the right side of the line gets improved. This is the year that McCoy will be looked at with fair judgement. I can't say that last year with the lockout, shortened prep time for the season, and offensive injuries that he got a fair look.

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If we take Tannehill at #4 and he is not on a top 10 NFL qb trajectory in 3 years, we will be having this conversation again in 2015.. and that is just a scary freakin thought.




...and if you don't even try with a Tannehill or Weeden you're stuck with the Frye's, McCoy's and DA's, the who is who of mid to late round QB projects...I was thinking along the same line 3 or 5 years ago but we gotta take a chance and at least try...if we miss? Oh well, draft another one 2 or 3 years later until you find one...as I said...I can live with passing on Tannehill and Weeden and am perectly ok with whoever we pick at 4...but I want to see a sound draft plan....if we pass on all QBs but then trade a 3rd day pick for Hasselbeck to push Colt, hey that's something...but we can't go into next season with Colt and Wallace as our 1-2 at the QB depth chart...wrong message to locker room, fan base, coaches...it'd be a hopeless season from day 1

and LOYAL: the FACT that Colt fell deep into the 3rd with multiple teams needing a QB is all you need to know...he was a 1st rounder on draftnik boards, who are weather vanes of NFL FOs and probably got played...that or Colt had a medical red flag on that shoulder....he wasn't a 1st rounder on any NFL team's draft board


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Dang - that first video throws a wrench into the Colt haters positions. Can't make throws. Can't strong arm a pass. Can't read protections/coverages..................amazing what a video will do.

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For some folks, this has gotta be like the Zapruder Film and Bigfoot footage all rolled into one!!

Was he throwing it to Nessie by any chance??


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Django..like I said it is one man's opinion. Just curious what teams needed a QB as a #1 need? Here is a link I didn't want to read all through it but just curious. Maybe you could find a different one. The reason Holmgren waited and knew they could get McCoy later was the fact that most teams had QB's and it wasn't a need for most teams and the nerve damage. Under those circumstance he was taken right where he should have been.

2010 Team needs


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The thing is...Colt NEVER was considered even a potential franchise QB by 32 teams...all 32 teams passed him 2 or 3 times, including us in an incredibly weak QB class





And this means...what???

By your logic, Tom Brady is half the QB of Colt McCoy.

Here's a hint for you: Draft position means precisely ZIP, ZILCH, NADA, ZERO the moment the player is selected.
From here, you may now continue your analysis


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Dang - that first video throws a wrench into the Colt haters positions. Can't make throws. Can't strong arm a pass. Can't read protections/coverages..................amazing what a video will do.




but but but,, he doesn't do it every single time so therefore, he can't be the guy......


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Dang - that first video throws a wrench into the Colt haters positions. Can't make throws. Can't strong arm a pass. Can't read protections/coverages..................amazing what a video will do.




but but but,, he doesn't do it every single time so therefore, he can't be the guy......





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j/c....



Is "consistency" the name of the new drum that's going to be beaten, now???

If so, then someone please chime in with the following for me so that I can keep up: Other than that part where EVERYTHING changed... can someone name anything that was consistent about last year??

Mack & Thomas don't count.... so, other than them... what in the name of God WAS consistent?? And how do you expect and harp about consistency when absolutely everyone and everything is in the middle of trying to figure out something very new and incredibly complex??


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Quote:

For some folks, this has gotta be like the Zapruder Film and Bigfoot footage all rolled into one!!

Was he throwing it to Nessie by any chance??


Good Analogy!


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j/c....



Is "consistency" the name of the new drum that's going to be beaten, now???

If so, then someone please chime in with the following for me so that I can keep up: Other than that part where EVERYTHING changed... can someone name anything that was consistent about last year??

Mack & Thomas don't count.... so, other than them... what in the name of God WAS consistent?? And how do you expect and harp about consistency when absolutely everyone and everything is in the middle of trying to figure out something very new and incredibly complex??


Robiskie and Hillis


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The thing is...Colt NEVER was considered even a potential franchise QB by 32 teams...all 32 teams passed him 2 or 3 times, including us in an incredibly weak QB class





And this means...what???

By your logic, Tom Brady is half the QB of Colt McCoy.




It means that we rather traded 3 picks for a gamble on a RB with bum knees than selecting our supposed franchise QB

and Tom Brady is a perfect example for my argument...he was NEVER drafted as a franchise QB...he was forced onto the field and made himself a franchise QB by playing good...he got a chance and ran away with it...Colt got his and he crapped his pants...like 98% of QB's picked in the 3rd to 7th do btw, so he's not alone...Tom Brady is the rare (actually UNIQUE) exception, not the norm...but he was never drafted with the intention to give him 20 + NFL starts...he earned them and Colt didn't...that's the difference


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lol!

Just watched the Little video.... wow, that kid is going to be something special if he keeps coming along at the pace he did last year!!


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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lol!

Just watched the Little video.... wow, that kid is going to be something special if he keeps coming along at the pace he did last year!!




No kidding. Who was the qb throwing those passes?

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I would love to say that you were right and I was wrong about McCoy ... because that would be best for the Browns.

I would hate to be right about him ....... I hope that somehow he turns out to be far, far more than I expect ... at least if we tie our future to him this year.

I would definitely be happy to publicly say that I was wrong about him ...... just like I did about DQ and Little. If it turns out that McCoy somehow becomes more than I think he can be, then I would happily say a public mea culpa.

I'm not even hoping that those who have called me everything in the book, and denigrated my every thought on the QB position would apologize if I am right ..... because that would be bad for the Browns. (and I know that I would never hear a "you were right" anyway ..... because I didn't regarding Frye or Quinn after similarly having been called everything in the book)

Oh, and a word of warning about season or 2 highlight reels ..... I bet that I could do a similar one on Frye, Quinn, Anderson, Couch, and every other QB to wander his way through Berea ... all showing "evidence" contrary to their purported weaknesses. Highlight reels prove nothing, except that someone had a few highlights.


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lol!

Just watched the Little video.... wow, that kid is going to be something special if he keeps coming along at the pace he did last year!!




No kidding. Who was the qb throwing those passes?


Yeah, I think so too. The difference was very noticeable once Robiskie was limited and released. It was good to get him those reps and will be exciting to see what he can do after a year in the league and in the same offense. Don't forget the guy didn't even play the year before and was our best receiver..


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Oh, and a word of warning about season or 2 highlight reels ..... I bet that I could do a similar one on Frye, Quinn, Anderson, Couch, and every other QB to wander his way through Berea ... all showing "evidence" contrary to their purported weaknesses. Highlight reels prove nothing, except that someone had a few highlights.


It was a Greg Little highlight real..so you would have to use one for Kevin Johnson or Edwards. Nice post.


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Oh, and a word of warning about season or 2 highlight reels ..... I bet that I could do a similar one on Frye, Quinn, Anderson, Couch, and every other QB to wander his way through Berea ... all showing "evidence" contrary to their purported weaknesses. Highlight reels prove nothing, except that someone had a few highlights.


It was a Greg Little highlight real..so you would have to use one for Kevin Johnson or Edwards. Nice post.




it wasn't really a highlight reel.. it just showed all of little's catches.


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