Quote: Lastly, even IF we used all 13 picks on offense, those 13 players will STILL be rookies...all 13 of them.
willie...good point...even if the Browns draft help for the Oline and WRs, those guys are still going to be rookies, so don't expect them to play like veterans.
They will play like rookies and they will make rookie mistakes that hurt the offense at times...but they will get better...and better, with experience.
Yep .... the preemptive excuses begin .........
McCoy better look like a real NFL QB this coming year or he is done. Moreover, if we take a QB in the 1st or 2nd round, he better show a lot early, or he'll probably be replaced by game 6 or 7.
He's damn lucky that Washington beat us to RG3, because if they hadn't, McCoy would be replaced, and would probably never start another game in the NFL.
I am trying to figure out what other teams McCoy would start for. The only one I come up with as a possibility is Jacksonville ...... and they have a rookie who put up similarly bad numbers last year already.
McCoy better put it all together and be a force this year, because "pretty good" just isn't going to get it.
The Browns, as a team, are getting better, but so are the other teams in our division. Every team in our division has a more effective QB than we do. If he doesn't at least catch up to 3rd place, then he's done.
If he "leads" us to another 4 or 5 win season, he may take members of the front office with him. These guys were brought in to finally settle the QB position, and it's as far from settled as it was the day they walked in.
Further, I love .... and I mean LOVE how a rookie QB in Cincinnati had his success last season diminished by certain people on the boards because he had AJ Green ... also a rookie, by the way ........ but our rookies won't be able to perform .... because they're rookies? Wow.
YT...Question...did the Browns rookie Greg Little, a 2nd round draft pick, play like a rookie?
...another question...did Pinkston, the rookie who stepped in to play OG when Steinie was lost for the season...did Pinkston play like a rookie?
...question...did the Browns 4th round draft pick, TE Jordan Cameron, play like a rookie?
...question...did the Browns other 4th round pick, FB Owen Marecic, play like a rookie?
This is/was the supporting cast the Browns drafted to support their QB last season.
YT...analyze these draft picks, then tell everyone how much was added to our QB's supporting cast last season.
Quote: Here is what I do not get from those try to beat a QB down like this (McCoy)...if you are a fan of the game, should you not understand that every successful QB has a competent supporting cast...
Here's what I do not get from those that try to defend a QB like this (Frye)...if you are a fan of the game, should you not be able to understand what kind of tools a QB has...
McCoy doesn't have Manning's tools. He has to have SOMETHING elite to make up for all the severe deficiencies in his game.
But hey, as you've always said Mac, you trust the Browns FO and will support their decision, and their decision was to throw the farm at Griffin III and dump McCoy. So now you have a decision to make...
Toad...question...how would you rate the "play of the supporting cast" the Browns provided for their QBs last season...
...one of the best performing supporting cast (in the NFL)?
...one of the worst performing supporting cast (in the NFL)?
Toad...last question...how would you rate the "play of the supporting cast" the Giants provided for Eli Manning last season...
...one of the best performing supporting cast (in the NFL)?
...one of the worst performing supporting cast (in the NFL)?
Quote: That article says it a couple times, get players to help McCoy look better, and surrounded McCoy with ordinary players. It's time to hold McCoy accountable, because nobody's going to look any good if he can't be a better quarterback.
I don't know how one can expect him to get major improvement from last year until this when he didn't get improvement from weeks 2 and 3 where he played his best last year, until the end of the season.
I can't understand how they could go another year with Colt McCoy, when they have a whole year to do Anything else to challenge him to perform better. He just can't get the ball where it needs to be.
this is the year for McCoy where it is all or nothing.. If he doesn't win atleast 8 games or put a lot of points out there on the field.. It's a wrap for Colt.
Quote: I know...it's about talent and talent evaluation though...Mangini, Royal, Robo, Veikune and probably pretty soon Massa are already out of the league...meanwhile Chud is managing an up and coming Panthers Offense, Winslow still is consistently catching passes in Tampa...BE's career is fading, but he still caught 11 TDs in 2 seasons in NY and just from a talent standpoint I'd still take him over Massa...even today and he would have been more productive than Massa in 09 and 2010
We gave away NFL talent and traded it into CFL talent
Good point about the personnel issues. I think GM/VP should have been here before Lerner introduced Mangini as the Head Coach. Coming off 1 keeper from the 2008 draft - we had 4 draft picks scheduled in 2009 without a front office/personnel guru in house. It couldn't have been any more opposite than the situation he walked into in NY.
When Mangini went to NY with a GM already in-house, they were drafting guys like D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Darrelle Revis, David Harris, Nick Mangold and Dustin Keller. As a result, NY won 10 games one year and 9 games another in spite of Mangini inheriting a 4-12 team there.
I honestly don't remember a list big name candidates that were interested in the Head Coaching gig here in 2009. They probably looked at the hollow front office, most recent draft at the time, what the next draft volume had scheduled (4 picks), and what the roster looked like. Keep in mind, Rubin didn't show he was the only keeper from the 2008 draft until he replaced and upgraded the injured Shaun Rogers in 2009.
When you really think about it - what has Braylon Edwards accomplished since celebrating another Tequila Sunrise with Donte Stallworth? Wasn't he still getting arrested for bar fights in NY? He was a #3 overall pick that only played up to that value one season over his entire career. Even worse, the right GM might have solved the answers to all our QB prayers if he put any reasonable research into Aaron Rodgers (1st round QB talent) in that same draft. And his resume included wins over more talented teams like USC. We probably could have traded back to add picks and snagged Aaron Rodgers in the process. This year we would have had to trade away about 4-5 picks to move up 2 spots in order to get the next perceived version of Aaron Rodgers. If Edwards showed NY or SF he was still interested in football, he probably would have stayed with one of them. Neither franchise felt like he was worth keeping around for very long though.
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
You can spew the "fact" that Mangini inherited a 4-12 team all you want (he didn't inherit a 4-12 roster talent)...but LARGE SAMPLE fact is that the HCs BEFORE and AFTER Mangini had better records and more postseasons appearances (quantity and %).....and you complain about the Edwards pick and don't even discuss the WHOLE 09 draft failure?
Stop acting as if Mangini was some kind of misunderstood construction worker...he was a bad HC in NY and here...mainly because he has 0 talent evaluation skills and the people skills of a cockroach, he had paper-HC skills in his fantasy head but was a bad facilitator...he was a dazzler and talked a good game while doing the opposite all too often
Guys like you are the reason why I always said he should run a sect...he can sell with his words and your 1 of many who fell for it and still can't handle the letdown
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
I love hearing from folks about how we have amazing talent evaluators in our FO now, and then hear about how Colt couldn't possibly succeed with the lack of talent around him.
I love hearing from folks about how we have amazing talent evaluators in our FO now, and then hear about how Colt couldn't possibly succeed with the lack of talent around him.
we've used the high ends of the first 2 drafts on defense. that is where Heckert has excelled so far.
I love hearing from folks about how we have amazing talent evaluators in our FO now, and then hear about how Colt couldn't possibly succeed with the lack of talent around him.
Maybe because they have concentrated the top of the first two drafts mainly on D. They have drafted Little(who was/is raw and didn't play for a year), Jordan Cameron(who was a basketball player that is Raw), Owen Marecic(who hopefully gets better), Pinkston and Hardesty(Injured his first year and ineffective when he does play).
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
There are still other means of acquiring players, and great talent evaluators should be able to find guys lower in the draft, through FA or through exploring trades with other teams, guys who aren't marquee high-dollar guys but can still contribute positively at positions of need. Heckert and Holmgren got here with no talent at the offensive skill positions and have added nobody of any appreciable talent outside of a project 3rd round QB and a project 2nd round wide receiver.
At some point your talent evaluators have to do just that: evaluate talent. Going into a season with the crew we had at receiver and then failure to do anything to address the situation as it became an obvious issue doesn't belie great talent evaluation.
And IMHO, drafting a consensus top CB in Joe Haden and hitting on a high 2nd round DE doesn't constitute excelling in the draft.
Quote: They have drafted Little(who was/is raw and didn't play for a year), Jordan Cameron(who was a basketball player that is Raw), Owen Marecic(who hopefully gets better), Pinkston and Hardesty(Injured his first year and ineffective when he does play).
That is my point. A WR who hadn't played in a year, a basketball player, a converted DB and a RB with busted knees. We went into last season relying heavily on three of those four players.
Hillis, Watson, Little. Those are the 3 best skill position guys Heckert has brought in. Pinkston looks like a late round find on offense (or being between Mack and Thomas made him look better).
Too early to say on Marecic, Lauvao, and Cameron, but they didn't have promising starts (Lauvao did improve later in the year though). Colt is in a make-or-break year.
I'll wait to see what they do in the draft. They just might really like this WR class (I do. Really good talent throughout).
-----------------------
hitting on 5 of 6 top2 round draft picks in 2 years is pretty good, no? Haden, Ward, Hardesty, Taylor, Sheard, Little. Only Hardesty looks like a bust and that's because he can't stay on the field (which is important and was a red flag for him).
Quote: They have drafted Little(who was/is raw and didn't play for a year), Jordan Cameron(who was a basketball player that is Raw), Owen Marecic(who hopefully gets better), Pinkston and Hardesty(Injured his first year and ineffective when he does play).
That is my point. A WR who hadn't played in a year, a basketball player, a converted DB and a RB with busted knees. We went into last season relying heavily on three of those four players.
Actually we weren't relying on any of them except Marecic...the sad state of the team and the fact that Little was our best Receiver and Robiskie released, Watson with three concussions and Hillis and Steinbach being hurt or Mentally hamstrung is why they played a part. Just proving how bad the players around Colt really were on offense and that developing players not meant to have such a significant role were the biggest contributors.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I wouldn't consider Ward, Taylor or Little to be hits at this point. Hardesty will have to do a lot to not be considered a busted pick. Haden appears to be a no-brainer, and if Sheard plays like he did last season then he appears to be an excellent choice as well.
That's the first two rounds. Any GM in the NFL should be able to hit on talent in those rounds.
yes, Mangini deserves some credit for Hillis too, but Heckert completed that trade.
Ward has been good but was hurt last year. Taylor not a hit? He struggled at times and faded a little down the stretch, but I thought he played pretty darn well for a rookie DT. Little needs to continue to improve but he did have a good rookie year.
Quote: Any GM in the NFL should be able to hit on talent in those rounds.
tell that to the GMs we have had since '99
or the Patriots the past several drafts or the Colts the past several drafts
Last edited by no_logo_required; 04/04/1211:18 AM.
I love hearing from folks about how we have amazing talent evaluators in our FO now, and then hear about how Colt couldn't possibly succeed with the lack of talent around him.
The current team of evaluators has only added Little, Pinkston and Lauvao. Momass, Cribbs, and most others were already here.. so you might want to give it a little more time to see if those they add this year have an impact.
I should also add that the high picks so far by this regime have, with the exception of Hardesty and Little, been on D.
Was Mack a Mangini pick or a Heckert pick,, I think Mangini.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Taylor not a hit? He struggled at times and faded a little down the stretch, but I thought he played pretty darn well for a rookie DT.
He did so well, but I recall a guy named Wimbley that everyone thought was a superstar after his rookie season, only to disappear. A good rookie season gives me hope, but follow it up with a respectable sophmore year before i celebrate a pick victory.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 04/04/1211:30 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: Toad...question...how would you rate the "play of the supporting cast" the Browns provided for their QBs last season...
Quote: Toad...last question...how would you rate the "play of the supporting cast" the Giants provided for Eli Manning last season...
I'm not going to legitimize that question with an answer, not when you're trying to compare McCoy to Manning.
The Browns tried to give up the future for a guy to replace McCoy. You've stated you trust the FO and will follow where they lead. Yet you're bucking that by banging the drum for McCoy.
So, again, you have a choice to make. You either are supporting McCoy in the face of the actions of the organization, or you'll support the organization in replacing him. You have a decision to make...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Little had 61 catches. I don't think that you can expect much more from a rookie than that. How many more catches should a 2nd round WR have in your opinion?
Pinkston played really well for a rookie. He had a few bumps along the way, but overall his play was pretty damn good. For a 5th round pick, I'd say his performance was quite marvelous.
Marecic was a non factor. 4th round picks usually aren't the guys you depend on day in and day out. What did you expect from a 4th round FB?
Cameron was the 4th string TE. He hardly played until after Watson was lost for the year. That was after McCoy was also out for the year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Hello? Again, this isn't about other QBs....you said he hit Little in stride, I said he didn't...post the vid if you want so that everyone can laugh at you...he had 5yds on the DBs when Colt threw it (would like to know if he would have thrown it even with the CB being right there because he should have since the S was out of it and it was a 1on1 deep) and then had to slow down for the ball
Just because it was 1 of his better throws doesn't mean that it was a good one...it was an easy read and a so-so throw...and if that was his "best of" deep throw, then god save us
Django, I seem to remember someone picking apart a previous one of your film observations..and it didn't work out so well for you. That aside..here is the video so you and everyone can laugh and I will post some from every QB in the league and Griffin too so you can say they suck too. 46 seconds in. You are over the top and the fact you can't acknowledge a good throw is no surprise based solely on the fact that you don't like the guy. If this was any other QB you would be saying what a great throw it was and why can't McCoy throw it like that..
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
The throw at 46 seconds was nice .... but it would have been nicer if it were out in front so that Little could have continued on for the TD. However, I'm not going to complain about that one. It was a decent throw to a wide, wide open WR. (even though our receivers can't get open and all .....)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I should also add that the high picks so far by this regime have, with the exception of Hardesty and Little, been on D.
Was Mack a Mangini pick or a Heckert pick,, I think Mangini.
I get that, and that's part of my point. If you're only finding talent in the first and second rounds, how good of a job are you doing?
Mack was Mangini/Kokinis 2009 first round selection.
You were referencing our evaluation staff and connecting the dots to Colt's lack of production.. I was merely poining out that they haven't really spent much time addressing the O side of things in the draft yet. This I think will be the year..
And we got some decent talent in the lower part of the draft,, Pinkston, Lauvao. Skrine nd Hagg contributed as First year guys who could show promise in thier second year
Jordan and Mericic and Undrafted Armond Smith didn't show much but then again, didn't play much either.. so it's not as if they picked up the dreggs of the world and put them on this team... THere is some reason for hope out of some of these guys. Consider yourself lucky if you get a guy that 's undrafted or in the late rounds and he turns out to be a contributor in a big way his first year.
What i'm convinced they need to do this year is to add to the Offense in a big way. A WR, RB and RT.
Hit on those three positions and it really could change the outlook
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
You said he hit him in stride, I said he didn't...that's the topic. The rest is just gibberish trying to deviate from your blunder...and the "other" film discussion was about Tannehill....go back to the thread and read again for whom it didn't work out so well....I invite anyone to do so...not that I think they'll take your word for it, lol
Back to your blunder: Is Little so slow that he magically lost 5yds ground to a CB in 10yds? I doubt it...he had to wait for the ball and turned his whole upper body towards it...if Colt hits him in stride, it's an easy TD...and it should have been since he was as wide open deep as good as it gets in the NFL
Btw, we failed to score a TD after that play and only collected 3p...and we lost that game by 1p...goes to show what makes the difference in this league
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Quote: The throw at 46 seconds was nice .... but it would have been nicer if it were out in front so that Little could have continued on for the TD. However, I'm not going to complain about that one. It was a decent throw to a wide, wide open WR. (even though our receivers can't get open and all .....)
Three things happened on that play...He had time to throw the ball and had good protection, Little got separation and Caught the ball, and McCoy gave him a chance with a good throw albeit a second late..Like I said, we can go through the league and see those same passes and think it was a good play by the QB and Receiver but if it is McCoy we hold him up to some arbitrary standard.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Toad...question...how would you rate the "play of the supporting cast" the Browns provided for their QBs last season...
Quote: Toad...last question...how would you rate the "play of the supporting cast" the Giants provided for Eli Manning last season...
I'm not going to legitimize that question with an answer, not when you're trying to compare McCoy to Manning.
No offense Toadie, but it's not a comparison of McCoy to Manning but the supporting cast around McCoy to that which was around Manning.
Quote: The Browns tried to give up the future for a guy to replace McCoy. You've stated you trust the FO and will follow where they lead. Yet you're bucking that by banging the drum for McCoy.
The media tried to force a team to give up their future for a prospect QB. You can agree or disagree on whether the prospect QB was worth it or not, but the media drove the hype. It's what they do. Since the trade between Washington & the Rams, have you seen a whole lot written about how RG3 will make the Redskins perennial Super Bowl contenders? Even with the FA WR signings they made. There is hardly a peep out of the media about it.
Yeah, that's how big the story was. Now they've moved on from that and are trying to hype up Tannehill. Problem for them is that the Browns front office (and I still contend that was a Randy Lerner forced attempt to trade up, not Holmgren & Heckert) isn't biting. All the talk has turned who will move up to get him. They've even injected the Vikings into the trade talks now, who will take Kalil to protect their investment in Ponder. If they don't, you can legitimately question if they have any brains at all.
Quote: So, again, you have a choice to make. You either are supporting McCoy in the face of the actions of the organization, or you'll support the organization in replacing him. You have a decision to make...
For me, I've always advocated surrounding McCoy with players with actual talent.
Quote: You said he hit him in stride, I said he didn't...that's the topic. The rest is just gibberish trying to deviate from your blunder...and the "other" film discussion was about Tannehill....go back to the thread and read again for whom it didn't work out so well....I invite anyone to do so...not that I think they'll take your word for it, lol
Back to your blunder: Is Little so slow that he magically lost 5yds ground to a CB in 10yds? I doubt it...he had to wait for the ball and turned his whole upper body towards it...if Colt hits him in stride, it's an easy TD...and it should have been since he was as wide open deep as good as it gets in the NFL
Btw, we failed to score a TD after that play and only collected 3p...and we lost that game by 1p...goes to show what makes the difference in this league
I believe it was established that what you were saying and what the tape showed were two different things..but hey..It's your world! Just as you forget to mention that there was only 14 seconds left before half and we were at the 10 after that clutch 52 yard play before Evan Moore had a 15 yard facemask call..oops..He took them from the 10 to the 10 in 50 seconds..You are also forgetting that Dawson missed a easy field goal after Pontbriand hit Macks leg on the snap, you also forgot to mention the handoff to Alex Smith that he fumbled at the 9 yard line, Obagnaya was picked up and starting on a whim because Hillis and Hardesty were hurt had him and Thomas Clayton. I didn't even mention the drops and you know there was at least one in there and if I still have the game I think it was a third down pass to Norwood. Did I mention that Browns field goal to put them up with 7:42 to play was set up with a Fumble by Josh Cribbs on a return? McCoy by the way was 20-27 for 218 and a 98 rating and 8.1ypc. You focus on one thing but the fact is McCoy put us in a position to win that game, didn't lose it and we lost for reasons other than anything you will ever acknowledge.. But that is typical of you. So yeah..It does go to show what makes a difference in this league.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 04/04/1202:08 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: The throw at 46 seconds was nice .... but it would have been nicer if it were out in front so that Little could have continued on for the TD. However, I'm not going to complain about that one. It was a decent throw to a wide, wide open WR. (even though our receivers can't get open and all .....)
Three things happened on that play...He had time to throw the ball and had good protection, Little got separation and Caught the ball, and McCoy gave him a chance with a good throw albeit a second late..Like I said, we can go through the league and see those same passes and think it was a good play by the QB and Receiver but if it is McCoy we hold him up to some arbitrary standard.
It was one good play, that could have been better. Little was wide open. I would expect any QB to be able to hit a guy that wide open.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: No offense Toadie, but it's not a comparison of McCoy to Manning but the supporting cast around McCoy to that which was around Manning.
None taken, but you don't know the tricks Mac has pulled over the last decade.
He knew what he was doing.
Quote: The media tried to force a team to give up their future for a prospect QB. You can agree or disagree on whether the prospect QB was worth it or not, but the media drove the hype.
While I fully believe the media and fan-base do have an effect on moves an organization can make, there's no way the media prompted Heckert to change his mind away from McCoy and to selling the farm for Griffin. They've spent too much time, effort, and money on scouts and film study to be duped like that.
I despise the media, but the Browns went after Griffin because they wanted to replace McCoy with a superior guy, and you don't replace a guy you like in this league.
Quote: For me, I've always advocated surrounding McCoy with players with actual talent.
And I've always advocated that you can build a team first without addressing the QB when you are so void of talent at numerous positions.
As for McCoy, the Browns may do just what you'd like them to do, but make no mistake about it. That move would be plan-B. Plan-A is going to the Deadskins.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Quote: The throw at 46 seconds was nice .... but it would have been nicer if it were out in front so that Little could have continued on for the TD. However, I'm not going to complain about that one. It was a decent throw to a wide, wide open WR. (even though our receivers can't get open and all .....)
This comment from you - and django's comment, prove to me you guys know very little other than "Colt sucks".
Please.
Notice how Little was open, and - DUH - you can't catch a ball if you don't turn your head for it, right? Ever seen a sprinter running with his arms out, and head turned backwards? I haven't.
It's not like Little had to reach behind him to catch it - he was still in full stride.
Notice the d-back that sees this happening, puts his head down and sprints full speed - never looking back.
Honestly, any other qb in the nfl makes that throw, you drool over it - jango too. Colt makes it - and it's "oh, could've been a foot or 2 further......"
Seriously, it gets old. Even on a good throw you guys attack Colt. Yet, if you watch RG throw for Baylor, all he did was hit wide open guys - and NOT in stride most of the time.
.....or he didn't lead his team to a TD and only 12p against 1 of only 3 teams that had a worse record than us
You say he put us in position to win it...I'd say he put us in position not to lose it (as others did)..."not to lose" is not enough in this league...especially not at QB, actually that's the definition of a backup QB
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
As many others have pointed out, this is what the 49ers did last season with Alex Smith. And they made the NFC Championship game. Strong run game, stronger defense, no turnovers.
Quote: I believe it was established that what you were saying and what the tape showed were two different things..but hey..It's your world! Just as you forget to mention that there was only 14 seconds left before half and we were at the 10 after that clutch 52 yard play before Evan Moore had a 15 yard facemask call..oops..He took them from the 10 to the 10 in 50 seconds..You are also forgetting that Dawson missed a easy field goal after Pontbriand hit Macks leg on the snap, you also forgot to mention the handoff to Alex Smith that he fumbled at the 9 yard line, Obagnaya was picked up and starting on a whim because Hillis and Hardesty were hurt had him and Thomas Clayton. I didn't even mention the drops and you know there was at least one in there and if I still have the game I think it was a third down pass to Norwood. Did I mention that Browns field goal to put them up with 7:42 to play was set up with a Fumble by Josh Cribbs on a return? McCoy by the way was 20-27 for 218 and a 98 rating and 8.1ypc. You focus on one thing but the fact is McCoy put us in a position to win that game, didn't lose it and we lost for reasons other than anything you will ever acknowledge.. But that is typical of you. So yeah..It does go to show what makes a difference in this league.
Quote: .....or he didn't lead his team to a TD and only 12p against 1 of only 3 teams that had a worse record than us
You say he put us in position to win it...I'd say he put us in position not to lose it (as others did)..."not to lose" is not enough in this league...especially not at QB, actually that's the definition of a backup QB
Just jibberish and biased opinion..way to address the post. The fact that you pin a 1 point loss on McCoy after laying out what happened that game is laughable. We can do that all day long...He put up more against the worst team in the league(Indy) than Pittsburgh, Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Houston and Jacksonville again plus tied Cinci, Tennesseex2, Carolina..so what's your point?
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
They needed everything to go their way: below AVG injuries, 1st year HC euphoria, weak division and they still didn't get to the big dance...you think if they had Eli and the Giants Smith this game would have been close? It's much tougher to build a comlete team around a middling QB ...window of opportunity is also shorter since the value guys that make little money want their big payday once the reach FA (salary cap, FA, injuries, depth issues are all factors that have to go your way for a window of opportunity)...if you have a franchise QB though, you keep him as long as he can throw and build the rest around him
I can't believe I'm debating this..Smith and the 9ers are the exception not the rule...the rule are Brees, Manningx2, Roethli, Rodgers, Flacco, Ryan, Cutler etc...and even on that list you can see: the better the QB the deeper the teams get
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
What's your point? You happy with Colt? Then enjoy more Top 10 picks year in year out...he's a bad QB by pretty much any standard
This stupid debate started because you said he hit Little in stride, which he didn't...if he did, we probably win this game...that's what I said...did others lose that game? Sure, they did...I said that, I didn't say Colt lost it, I said he didn't WIN it...your QB is not disallowed to WIN it for you making your team overcome a Cribbs fumble etc...he makes this throw more accurately and we would have won that game...we will probably never see a blown deep coverage like that with 20sec to go from deep in our half (tells you a lot about how little they respect McCoy in this league...they didn't even care about the deep half with 20sec and 80yds to go, lol what an insult)...a play it safe underthrow get you 3p, a better throw in stride makes it 7....yeah, I get it...other QBs underthrow those too...sure but they also hit them in stride every now and then....that "now and then" is what's missing with Colt...I've never seen him throw someone open for a TD...mostly jump balls in single coverage is as good as it gets with Colt....and even of those he doesn't throw nearly enough of considering the number of 1on1s he has on the outside
not
to
lose
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Your tape watching skills leave quite a bit to be desired.
He DID hit Little in stride. Deal with it. And yes, your "disection" of Colt getting a concussion from the stooler cheat was a pathetic display of your so called "football knowledge".
Dude, why do you argue things when the tape is there for all to see?
Underthrow my rear..You are reaching man..it's sad. The throw was fine and if it was any other QB besides Colt you would agree. Then you say a guy like Flacco and Ryan? Flacco had a worse completion percentage last year than McCoy..20 TD and 12 picks with a top notch defense, Ray Rice, and weapons all around him and a good O-line. I don't remember seeing any of those guys in a Super Bowl. He lost against Tennessee, Jacksonville, Seattle and San Diego last year..We beat Jacksonville and Seattle and lost to Tennessee. Also I have to believe if you give Colt 4 years in the league and same system with Michael Turner, Roddy White and Julio Jones things would be different, but since we have had Montario Hardsty/Obagnaya, Robiskie/Little and MoMass/Josh Cribbs in a second system after a shortened offseason for a coach who's offenses have scored over 21 points 5 times in 48 games so it's hard to tell. This started because of your distorted view of a good play and the inability to give a semblance of credit where due and choosing instead to pick a play apart and pin a 1 point loss squarely on the shoulders of 1 guy..
You probably don't even remember anymore what that discussion was all about but I argued that he got himself knocked out on that play by holding on to the ball for too long and running unprotected out of the pocket..and yes, "running" out of it was unnecessary...cool QBs take steps to evade, not run around...it was a 3 man rush and after the guy was evaded there was no need to run at all...but he was in panic mode already then
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Wow. 
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
Just as you forget to mention that there was only 14 seconds left before half and we were at the 10 after that clutch 52 yard play before Evan Moore had a 15 yard facemask call..oops..He took them from the 10 to the 10 in 50 seconds..You are also forgetting that Dawson missed a easy field goal after Pontbriand hit Macks leg on the snap, you also forgot to mention the handoff to Alex Smith that he fumbled at the 9 yard line, Obagnaya was picked up and starting on a whim because Hillis and Hardesty were hurt had him and Thomas Clayton. I didn't even mention the drops and you know there was at least one in there and if I still have the game I think it was a third down pass to Norwood. Did I mention that Browns field goal to put them up with 7:42 to play was set up with a Fumble by Josh Cribbs on a return? McCoy by the way was 20-27 for 218 and a 98 rating and 8.1ypc. You focus on one thing but the fact is McCoy put us in a position to win that game, didn't lose it and we lost for reasons other than anything you will ever acknowledge.. But that is typical of you. So yeah..It does go to show what makes a difference in this league.