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Draft is big for these five teams Ravens have glaring needs on D; Browns must land multiple impact players Originally Published: April 9, 2012 By Matt Williamson | Scouts Inc.
These five teams have the most work to do in the upcoming NFL draft.
Baltimore Ravens: The Ravens have taken some hits this offseason. To keep pace in the AFC, they will need another strong draft, something they have an excellent track record of accomplishing. But they don't pick until No. 29 in Round 1.
The Ravens were wise to bring back Matt Birk, but at this point, he is just a short-term fix at center. They lost Ben Grubbs in free agency, and left tackle was a problem area last season -- Bryant McKinnie is very difficult to count on. The offensive line needs to prepare for the future while also getting immediate help on the left side. Peter Konz very well could be Baltimore's first-round pick if he is still available. I would not object to that selection.
On defense, the Ravens need to find eventual replacements for future Hall of Famers Ed Reed and Ray Lewis. Reed and Lewis will never be replaced, but someone is going to have to take over at those positions sooner rather than later and the Ravens just lost two safeties in free agency. Also on defense, Baltimore lacks a complementary pass-rusher opposite Terrell Suggs. Finding all of those players -- along with a running back to back up Ray Rice and maybe one more threatening wide receiver -- will not be easy. But GM Ozzie Newsome is among the very best at his craft. The Ravens also have an extra pick in the fourth round, which might be a great place to find Rice's backup.
Cleveland Browns: Not only do the Browns have the fourth overall pick, they also pick 22nd in the first round. With 13 selections overall, Cleveland has more draft picks right now than can probably make the final roster.
The Browns have taken the quantity over quality approach to drafting lately. That would be a huge mistake this year. If anything, they should be looking to trade up at times, packaging their excess picks to acquire higher-quality prospects. This team is starved for difference-makers.
Is the No. 4 pick too high for Trent Richardson? Not if you're the Browns.
The first order of business is the Browns' quarterback quandary. Cleveland made the biggest mistake of any team this offseason when it did not land the second pick overall to get Robert Griffin III. But that ship has sailed -- time to move on. The Browns still desperately need a quarterback, which leads us to Ryan Tannehill. Assuming Andrew Luck, Matt Kalil and Griffin are off the board at No. 4, I would take Trent Richardson if I were in charge of the Browns. Tannehill should be a consideration. I firmly believe you can't overspend for a franchise quarterback and am generally not a fan of taking a running back this early. But this case is different. Richardson is special. Richardson is the only player in this scenario whom I would put ahead of Tannehill on the Browns' draft board.
My approach now for Cleveland would be to build everything around Colt McCoy -- even though I don't believe he's the team's long-term solution at the position. I would go all in to draft a franchise quarterback early next year or to put a package together this year if Tannehill happens to slip in the first round. Adding a non-franchise quarterback prospect such as Brandon Weeden or Kirk Cousins makes little sense to me.
This team has a ton of needs. The Browns need to be able to run the football. Richardson would be a terrific start to make that happen. Everyone is saying the Browns should go offense with all three of their early picks this year, looking at quarterback, running back, right tackle and/or wide receiver. I don't disagree, but I also can't say Cleveland is nearly set on the defensive side. This team needs a ton of work and has to put together an exceptional draft.
Indianapolis Colts: This is the worst pre-draft NFL roster that I can remember. The Colts will select their quarterback and new face of the franchise first overall, so they do not need to address the quarterback position after that card is handed to the commissioner. But they need everything else.
I wouldn't look to bring in a running back in this class -- Donald Brown and Delone Carter showed enough during last year's dismal season. The offensive line also shows some promise with some offseason acquisitions and two early picks from the 2011 draft class.
New offensive coordinator Bruce Arians loves using multiple-tight end sets. The Colts have zero at this position. A great pick early in the second round -- or maybe trading back into the first round to acquire -- is Andrew Luck's college teammate, Coby Fleener. Or, because they do have so many needs, maybe the Colts just stay put and take the player whom they didn't expect to fall and don't worry about his position. With the exception of Reggie Wayne, who is aging, and maybe Austin Collie, the players Luck will throw to are among the very worst in the league.
On defense, transitioning from Indianapolis' Cover 2 scheme that stressed speed over size to a physical Ravens-like multiple defensive scheme is going to be incredibly difficult. In fact, the Colts need to get bigger and more physical on both sides of the ball. Pat Angerer and Antoine Bethea are promising young players, but several current key pieces -- Cory Redding, Robert Mathis and probably Dwight Freeney -- are all older, which is a problem.
Also, 3-4 defenses just are not successful on early downs without a good nose tackle, and Indy doesn't have one currently on the roster. Cornerback also stands out as an extremely weak spot. I expect the Colts to pick first overall again next year at this time. But they have four picks in the top 100 and absolutely must find some good players in this draft to start a massive rebuilding project and make Luck's transition to the pros a smooth one.
Miami Dolphins: This has been a brutal offseason for Miami. Now it is time to take a step back as a franchise and realize there is no short-term fix. This is a rebuilding project, and that means improving through the draft. Miami has the eighth pick in the first round. The Dolphins also picked up an extra third-round selection in the Brandon Marshall trade.
The Dolphins have plenty of problem areas that need to be addressed, but their roster is not as lacking in star power as Cleveland's. In this case, drafting Tannehill in the first round, eighth overall, could ignite a franchise where little has gone right lately. I like Matt Moore, and having Moore on board allows Miami to bring Tannehill along slowly, which is exactly what he needs. Miami also has Mike Sherman, Tannehill's college coach, on staff. That should ease his transition to the NFL.
But quarterback isn't the only area that needs an upgrade. Marshall is now in Chicago and the Dolphins have nothing resembling a No. 1 wide receiver. If they can't land Tannehill, picking Michael Floyd at the eight spot makes sense. Tannehill versus Floyd at No. 8 is an interesting discussion. The Dolphins would be a much better team in 2012 with Moore throwing to Floyd than with Tannehill on the bench or on the field throwing to the present lackluster wide receivers. The rest of Miami's offensive skill positions are in good enough shape, but the right side of the offensive line, particularly right tackle, needs starting-caliber additions.
It might not be a sudden change, but the Dolphins are switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defensive alignment. In addition to requiring some reinforcements in the secondary, this scheme switch leaves Miami very light on true 4-3 weakside linebackers and especially defensive ends. Melvin Ingram or Quinton Coples, who brings size at the defensive end position, could factor into Miami's first-round considerations. The Dolphins need to stop the bleeding from an embarrassing offseason with an excellent draft to get their rebuilding project going in the right direction.
New York Jets: I see a lot of prominent holes on this team. On offense, the Jets really need a right tackle, and another guard would be nice as well. I am not sold on their running back stable; they also could use depth at tight end and really need a second wide receiver opposite Santonio Holmes. That isn't even getting into the Jets' quarterback mess, which is unlikely to be addressed during this draft anyway.
Defensively, New York is slow at inside linebacker and lacking at safety, which is a problem in a division that features the New England Patriots' outstanding pair of tight ends. The Jets have a few decent pass-rushers, but they lack a true No. 1 difference-maker. Fixing these holes in the draft may prove to be very difficult. Although they might not be able to fill all these needs, missing on picks could really set this team back.
New York selects 16th overall in the first round, and there are many directions it could go. The Jets better not swing and miss. Some first-round names to consider are Mark Barron, Courtney Upshaw, Nick Perry, Cordy Glenn and maybe Jonathan Martin or Mike Adams. But Martin and Adams are not the mashers in the run game New York needs at right tackle, considering how much it will need to run the football.
The Jets do not have a fourth-round pick, but they do have three selections in both the sixth and seventh rounds. Those additional late picks could help a team that isn't particularly deep. I have a tough time believing the Jets are still in New England's class in the AFC East, but if they botch this draft, they could very well be looking up at the Buffalo Bills, too.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I dont disagree with the sentiment that this is a very important draft for the Browns, but his assessment of the team is one that is very prominent among people that dont quite understand the Browns.
Everyone sees a team that is very far from winning (not necessarily as we played several games within 7 pts and were a bunch of ball bounces away from 10-6 and maybe better). They also see a team that is in desperate need of a QB. Again, that may be true, but I just dont see it as the biggest hole in the Browns. Its not as though our WRs OL, RBs and general inability to stop the run are small potholes covering a big sinkhole that is our QB.
Its more that we have a big hole that was dug with a bunch of shoveled out parts of that whole and together creates that big hole. However, there are some parts that are covering that hole a little (in our secondary as 3/4 of it is very solid (Usama/Hagg...safety being the big missing piece, but thats Jauron's specialty so I expect a better year from one of them coming to be our guy...but I think Usama is better near the LOS so i like him as Wards backup)...
Our biggest needs are:
WR...we dont have a playmaker yet. Greg Little will be good down the road but will benefit from an attention taker on the other side of the field. We're in good shape with Little #2, Norwood #3 and Cribbs #4...but that #1 is a cavern of emptiness in talent.
Right Side OL: Lauvao seems like the Sanchez of our OL. Not horrible, not bad, but makes mistakes when you dont want them and hurts ya. Can be good for stretches, but just doesnt seem consistent...that being said. He's super young still and green...maybe this offseason will shore him up. I'm willing to keep him starting, but have a capable backup just in case (ie Billy Yates esque guy). But we need an RT...Bad. Pashos/Cousins/Hicks were all bad and only Cousins is back. Please find a guy...
other DE: We're great with Sheard, we're great in the middle, but Stephens, Mitchell, and Schaefering just arent the guys. Benard is gone? Who knows he isnt reliable anymore anyway. We need a DE there (I'd love Upshaw but him prolly being gone at 15ish will make him unreachable)
Other OLB: DQ and Gocong are good...im happy there, very happy. But, we need someone else. Fujita isnt right for it, he and Gocong should rotate there (with Chris getting the majority of snaps) Hightower at the end of the 1st would be sweet...then DQ can move outside and be the roaming guy hes made to be.
Other Safety: Ward is good...can Hagg, Sheldon Brown, Young, or Ventrone do the job? Hagg maybe...Brown maybe...but thats it on our roster. A nice 4th round safety would be a great pickup for us. Our CBs are all set regardless of if Brown stays CB or not...Haden, Skrine, Patterson, and Dockery will be fine there. A strength.
QB: Colt McCoy is the enigma...that being said. Seneca Wallace is a capable backup and he makes our QB situation stable despite the general consensus. If Colt flops he flops...Thaddeus and Seneca are good enough on the backside where our need for a QB is limited. If we want to take a guy, I get it, but i dont see the NEED. RB: Count me as one of the few who is fine with Hardesty, Jackson, Ogbonnaya, and Armond Smith...if Hardesty proves he isnt capable, Ogbonnaya is capable, and Jackson can take the heat off of them by being a 3rd down stalwart. TE: Get Evan more reps...and Jordan Cameron, and Alex Smith...
I think our big needs and our first 4 picks should be focused on WR, RT, DE, OLB and then replacing guys that are serviceable (CB, QB, RB, LB).
We have 13 picks and could use at least 4 to move up to get us to 9 which would be great.
"It has to start somewhere It has to start somehow What better place than here? What better time than now?"
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Glad to see somebody agrees with me.  I started out on the side of drafting a WR at #4 (Blackmon) and the best RB available at 22... I'm now of the opinion that I could live with that or Richardson at #4 and the best WR available at 22. Then I would look long and hard at what OTs are available in the 2nd round.
yebat' Putin
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Count me as one that see's Oogy as a guy who might not be on the roster when the season starts. He can catch a little, but he's slow, doesn't have much vision, isn't a good blocker, and has little power. He's a B-level 3rd down back, and if he's toting the rock for any team, that team is in a bad place at the RB position.
Jackson IMHO is the only keeper, and he just missed an entire season due to injury. Hardesty in year 3 is one eye-lash away from being a pure bust, and still has to prove he can stay healthy, nevermind show whether or not he has NFL talent.
Yikes.
However, based on his thoughts of the Browns, he's spot-on: We need a ton of talent and should use some of our movable picks to get higher in the draft to get some quality.
We lack at least one starting caliber player at the following positions:
QB WR RB DE S CB RT
Yikes.
We can't afford to gamble and miss.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yeah, I see us as not having any real answer other than "Yikes!" at RB right now.
Jackson is coming back off injury. Hardesty has been consistently hurt, and has accomplished almost nothing in his NFL career. Smith has done nothing. Ogbonnaya hasn't done anything at the NFL level. He ran for what .... 300 some yards last year? Pardon me for not getting all excited.
We need at least a starter at RB , and probably a backup too the way this team is put together right now. Luckily this draft appears to be pretty deep at RB, and we should be able to get a starter and backup in the first 4-6 rounds where we have a ton of picks.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I wouldn't even panic if we didn't draft a RB at all...
Grant, Addai, Benson, Hightower, Caddilac are all still available in FA
#gmstrong
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You should because you're taking it for granted that Heckert would sign one of them. I no longer have an ounce of faith that he has any intention of signing anyone we've ever heard of off the free agent market.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Where are these RBs going to play next season? It's a numbers game and we hold all teh cards as we cold very well be the last team with a starter opening at RB when the draft is over
That said...I think Heckert still feels good about Hardesty as a RBBC guy and already has a camp battle for 3rd down RB with Obi and Jackson...a mid rounder or one of the FAs and our depth chart at RB is set imho
I don't get the panic mode when it comes to the RB position since there are sooo many ways still left to fill it adequately at least for 2012....QB or RT or WR otoh? That's where people should panic... we have as big a hole at QB and RT with no FA options left and no mid rounders to fill...so we better look at QB and RT before even thinking about a RB
#gmstrong
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Yea.. "RB's are a dime a dozen" "Build the line and anyone will look like a pro-bowler back there" I love these quotes so often spoken here over the last few years.. And we're STILL looking for THAT guy.
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Quote:
I don't get the panic mode when it comes to the RB position since there are sooo many ways still left to fill it adequately at least for 2012....
Yea, we could fill it adequately for 2012.. or we are in a position to lock it up definitely for the next 8-10 years...
Quote:
QB or RT or WR otoh? That's where people should panic... we have as big a hole at QB and RT with no FA options left and no mid rounders to fill...so we better look at QB and RT before even thinking about a RB
There is absolutely zero reason to panic at QB right now. I agreed with the article that said drafting a 2nd tier QB doesn't make any sense and I think Tannehill is closer to 2nd tier than he is to elite... Colt is going to start next year and play the whole year barring injury and it's not going to be with his replacement-in-waiting on the bench... I think people just need to accept that. So it's either WR-RB-RT or RB-WR-RT... I'd be happy with either.
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j/c
I think a case could be made for RT being our biggest, gapping hole.
Not saying I'd take one at #4 overall...but we have players who are serviceable - at worst - at QB, WR, RB. (Those being the most talked-about positions.)
For instance:
I'd rather roll the dice with Hardesty, Jackson, & Obiwan at RB than I would Cousins at RT.
I can do that with QB & WR too.
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Quote:
Where are these RBs going to play next season? It's a numbers game and we hold all teh cards as we cold very well be the last team with a starter opening at RB when the draft is over
Again, how much faith does anyone have that Heckert would sign one of those veteran guys at another $1 million per? Where's the track record of those kinds of moves here that would suggest you believe he's going to go that route?
We're rebuilding and doing it on the uber-cheap. Bringing in a guy off the street and plugging him right into the WCO ahead of guys who are already here isn't a bad idea...until you realize that Heckert has shown no desire whatsoever to sign free agents.
This dials us back a month or so ago when we signed Rucker. I said I wouldn't mind the selection if we paired him up with someone else since he's nothing close to a full-time player. I was told that would happen. I referenced the Jayme Mitchell signing when saying Heckert decided to stand pat with the guys already on the roster.
So, DJ, that's the problem here. I see nothing that tells me Heckert would even look at one of those guys.
I honestly and truly believe that we are done with free agent RB's. I'm 100% certain we're going to take one in the draft, and equally certain we aren't going to sign a guy off the street when they are going to get $1 million as veteran minimum (estimated).
The only real question is how far down are we going to get one.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'd rather roll the dice with YOU at right tackle than Cousins.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well this shows Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc doesn't want to see the Browns win this year. I don't want to read anymore he has to say.
" Is 4 overall too early for Trent Richardson, not if you're the Browns" So for another random team YES it would be
" I would build everything around Colt McCoy though he is not the long term answer" Don't qualify it with long term, if he's not the answer, it's dumb to build around him.
" I would go all in to draft a franchise qb next year"
Ya Matt Willaimson, Scouts Inc, You are a NEXT YEAR guy.
That doesn't work anymore. Next year is for Losers.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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You also have to remember this is still an entertainment business. Marketing is huge. If I was the Business manager for Randy and looked at your Claiborne and left overs draft I would cringe. The big boys KNOW we need a face to market and a CB,RT and 2nd string QB ain't gonna help one bit. The only national news mention of the Browns again this year will be when we are on the clock....
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Quote:
Yea.. "RB's are a dime a dozen" "Build the line and anyone will look like a pro-bowler back there" I love these quotes so often spoken here over the last few years.. And we're STILL looking for THAT guy.
yeah, if we go into this season with what we had last season, why would we expect to have any more than we wound up with last year.
Those who think that we can pick up a RB anytime ..... well that's true ...... we did it last year. Unfortunately, we wound up with Chris Ogbonnaya. He played 11 games, starting 4, and ran for 334 yards. Yea.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They might have 13 picks but 4 of those are over 200, those are just UDFA's that can be selected early
Any pick over 140 is just a hopeful.
You can't count on gettting any production out of those late picks anymore than you could Haggerty, or his types, other Udfa's
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
You also have to remember this is still an entertainment business. Marketing is huge. If I was the Business manager for Randy and looked at your Claiborne and left overs draft I would cringe. The big boys KNOW we need a face to market and a CB,RT and 2nd string QB ain't gonna help one bit. The only national news mention of the Browns again this year will be when we are on the clock....
Interesting side angle.
Sure, Richardson isn't in Griffin's class as far as marketability goes, but in a face-starved town like Cleveland, he could put us on the map the way Hillis did...without all the idiotic headaches.
I could see how that might play a small role in the decision, but I would venture to say that'd be a happy benefit as opposed to a primary factor.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Yea.. "RB's are a dime a dozen" "Build the line and anyone will look like a pro-bowler back there" I love these quotes so often spoken here over the last few years.. And we're STILL looking for THAT guy.
Not to knock you but when has the line here been built either? If we had a good or great line I would love to see if "RB's are a dime a dozen" here. The browns have to get a good RT in the 2nd or late 1st IMO to help the running backs.
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Well building the offensive line is not for a lack of quantity, they kept a boatload of offensive linemen on the roster even druing the season last year, and they've drafted and through free agency added alot of players over the last 5 years.
They just haven't found that perfect one to make all of the below average guys behind them look perfect also.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Heckert went stop gap at FS with Young, RDE with Rucker/Parker, RT with Pashos...he does it when it NEEDS to be done...but there's simply no need to at RB right now due to a large market
You could be right that we'll probably add 1 through the draft but I think Heckert is keeping his options open at RB because it's a buyer's market...if somehow the value of the draft leads us to not drafting a RB, we always can go back to FA....there's simply no urgency to stop gap fill the positions...to the contrary, it would limit our flexibility on draft day...especially at 4...if we would have signed a FA RB for 3mil+ already, we probably won't take Richardson, right? So now if TB desperately wants Richardson at 5, they may throw an extra 3rd or 2nd our way to move 1 spot for him
at this point, nobody really knows WHO we want...is it Richardson? Blackmon? Claiborne? or Tannehill?...this helps us come draft day and I think Heckert will field many more calls for our pick(s)
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Yea.. "RB's are a dime a dozen" "Build the line and anyone will look like a pro-bowler back there" I love these quotes so often spoken here over the last few years.. And we're STILL looking for THAT guy.
Not to knock you but when has the line here been built either? If we had a good or great line I would love to see if "RB's are a dime a dozen" here. The browns have to get a good RT in the 2nd or late 1st IMO to help the running backs.
shep...you beat me to it...
I happen to believe that if a team builds a superior offensive line, it does help the running back's performance. Denver, for years, cranked out top running backs, especially when Alex Gibbs was their offensive line coach.
Last season, the Browns offensive line depth was exposed, when Pinkston and Lauvao plus waiver wire guys helped the Browns field a full Oline until Pashos returned. Even then, Pashos is on the downward side of his career. The Browns have yet to find that Oline coach who can develop talent.
George Warhop has been the Browns OLine coach since 2009 and we are still waiting for him to develop young talent. Hopefully Warhop can improve the play of Lauvao and Pinkston so the Browns are not forced to draft more OGs.
If the Browns do not draft a OT, then the position will likely go to Cousins. Again, it will be up to Oline coach Warhop to develop Cousins if the Browns do not draft a OT.
There are two ways to build a top offensive line in the NFL... #1...draft them #2...develop them
Looking back at the OLine talent Alex Gibbs developed for the Broncos, he saved them a lot of draft picks by taking lower round talent and developing them into some of the best offensive lines in football.
So far, the Browns OLine success has come from drafting top talent..Joe Thomas, Alex Mack. Let's hope Warhop can help the Oline improve the play at OGs and RT.
My high school coach used to say his grandmother could run a football for 5 yards but it took an offensive line to open a hole for her.
Some things in football never change...the importance of the offensive line is one of them!
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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[quote}
Some things in football never change...the importance of the offensive line is one of them!
You build a offense with OL.
You build a Defense with DB's
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Quote:
There are two ways to build a top offensive line in the NFL... #1...draft them #2...develop them
I agree with you but part of that equation is giving them time to develop... and giving the line time to gel overall.
Look at pretty much every good OL and you will find a couple relatively high draft picks and a couple low draft picks/UDFAs... but the one thing that is fairly constant is that the core of the OL has played together for a number of years with few changes. We seem to change 2 to 3 players a year on the OL every year... of course we also change offensive systems every 2 or 3 years as well... and we change QBs like a revolving door too... All of which affects the OLs ability to grow and develop and play at a high level...
yebat' Putin
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And once again ...... the Browns OL last year was not much worse than the year before. The difference was that total number of passes thrown.
The difference between the 2 OL was basically about 2 QB pressures.
Let's go back to 2009:
In 2009, we had 30 sacks and 61 hits in 443 pass attempts. That's one hit/sack per 4.87 pass attempts.
In 2010, we had 36 sacks and 63 QB hits in 478 pass attempts. This is one sack/hit per 4.83 pass attempts.
In 2011, we had 39 sacks and 83 QB hits, but this was in 570 pass attempts. This is one sack/hit per 4.67 pass attempts.
To put this in context, if we had thrown the same number of passes in 2009 and 2010, we would have allowed 117 hits/sacks in 2009, or 118 in 2009. We allowed a total of 122 hits/sacks last year.
Yep ..... huge difference there.
The Houston Texans "only" allowed 101 sacks/hits last year. (33 sacks and 68 hits) Their line was much better than ours, right?
Well, 101 sacks/hits in 467 pass attempts is one hit/sack every 4.62 pass attempts. That's almost the same as our OL .... though they were just a hair worse.
Last year, the Packers allowed 41 sacks and 73 hits in 552 pass attempts. That's 114 hits/sacks in 552 attempts, or one hit/sack every 4.84 pass attempts. We allowed one every 4.67 pass attempts.
The OL is nowhere near as bad as some pretend.
Now look at a team like St Louis, who allowed 55 sacks and 114 hits in 549 attempts. They got their QB his or sacked once every 3.25 pass attempts. Ouch. No wonder they went through QBs galore.
How about the Niners, who made the NFC Championship game? They allowed 44 sacks and 82 hits, or 126 hits/sacks in only 451 pass attempts. This in one hit/sack per 3.58 pass attempts.
The Bears allowed 49 sacks and 87 hits, or a total of 136 in 473 pass attempts. That's one hit/sack per 3.48 pass attempts. Ouch.
Still want to whine about how bad the OL was?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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YT...you are using two variables to judge the offensive line...sacks given up and hits on the qb.
What about passes thrown away to avoid sacks and hits?
What about times the qb ran to avoid a sacks and hits?
What about the times the middle of the Browns offensive line was shoved in the QBs face?
What about the number of blitzes teams used because they knew the center of the Oline was suspect?
Intentional grounding calls?
Should hurries be factored in?
What about the pressure that came from the RT side of the Oline?
What about run blocking?
Then there is this...you are assuming the 2010 offensive line was great and you compare the 2011 line which was not better than the 2010 line.
Rush blocking, the Browns 2010 line helped generated 1646 rushing yds...ranking 20th in the NFL ........................................2011.................................1531................................28th..............
Pass blocking, the Browns 2010 line helped generate 2989 passing yds...ranking 29th in the NFL ........................................2011...............................3090.................................24th...............
The Browns 2010 line gave up 36 sacks, ranking them 17th in the NFL ..................2011...................39................................18th..............
The Browns 2010 line allowed 63 hits, ranking them 6th (fewest) in the NFL ..................2011...................83............................25th.........................
YT...while you have settled in on one factor to measure the performance of the offensive line...your greatest mistake was to assume the Browns Oline was great in 2010...IT WASN'T.
Then there is the eye test...especially when you compare an offensive line such as the Saints vs the offensive line of the Browns. The Saints Oline is the gold standard...it is the quality of offensive line every team would hope to have...protect their QB, giving him time and space to read, go through progressions and deliver an accurate pass.
...and to open holes for their RBs to help control the game and set up play action passes.
I want an offensive line like the Saints have...
YT...what do you want in an offensive line?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Put Colt behind that Saints line and everyone would be asking "What happened to the Saints OL? They suck!!"
Brees is fantastic at moving within the pocket and avoiding pressure. Colt has yet to show the ability to move within the pocket to avoid pressure. If a team shows blitz, he starts looking for defenders instead of receivers and ends up getting clobbered.
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Isn't it amazing the opinions out there on whats most important for an offense ?
Manning and good wide receivers behind a below average line,
Barry Sanders and 1 ft of daylight.
Walter Payton and 11" of daylight.
5 Pro-Bowl OLinemen and Toad in the backfield. ( he hops over the defenders)
I guess thats why they call it a TEAM sport. No one piece can do it all. It is a finely tune mesh of multiple parts and requires a balance across the board.
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Glad to see someone agrees with me we totally flubbed the RGIII deal.
For me, the biggest needs are:
QB RB WR S OT OLB DE G
LOL....pretty much everything.
The problem is if you enter the draft going for needs when your team sucks, you're screwed. Seeing as we don't do squat in FA, I guess we are screwed. We will either draft for needs and leave better players on the board or draft the best players and still have holes all over the field.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I can't say you flubbed the RGIII deal....as you did offer a lot, and the Rams did said they were not going to use you to raise the bidding against the Skins.....just send in your best offer....and you did...almost.
But I will say this....its a QB league...period...and nothing else really matters.....With Manning...the Colts were playoff bound...and Super Bowl contenders...did not matter the RB, or the WR....without him...they get the #1 pick.
You have to have "THE MAN" at QB
HACK
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YT, I've been watching the same team you have and you need to go back further then 2009 to see better numbers ... Since Ryan Tucker our OL has not been very good.
How many other plays 'not' in your stats where hurried or forced to throw the ball away (hopefully not an INT)?
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Quote:
I can't say you flubbed the RGIII deal....as you did offer a lot, and the Rams did said they were not going to use you to raise the bidding against the Skins.....just send in your best offer....and you did...almost.
But I will say this....its a QB league...period...and nothing else really matters.....With Manning...the Colts were playoff bound...and Super Bowl contenders...did not matter the RB, or the WR....without him...they get the #1 pick.
You have to have "THE MAN" at QB
HACK
Almost schmallmost.
Any idiot could have figured out the Skins were going to have at add another pick since we had better even to even picks.....except our idiots. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I honestly didn't think there was anyone dumb enough to give up 3 firsts for the #2 pick lol. Apparently Holmgren and Snyder were both dumb enough but Snyder was just the dumber of the two.
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Quote:
YT, I've been watching the same team you have and you need to go back further then 2009 to see better numbers ... Since Ryan Tucker our OL has not been very good.
How many other plays 'not' in your stats where hurried or forced to throw the ball away (hopefully not an INT)?
Our line has not been a top of the NFL line. However, it also has not been as bad as some try to make it out to be.
Look back to 2007. What happened to improve the line? Different QB is what. Quicker decisions. The line wasn't blocking all day long for a 4 yard pass anymore. Suddenly the line was better.
How many quick decisions did the QB make last year?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So where does the RB enter your equation mac? lol You want to now use the running game as the deciding factor, but we didn't have Hillis.
This is so typical of you ...... you lose your initial argument, so you try to change the debate.
Ogbonnaya averaged 4.6 yards/carry last year. Hardesty was slow, slower, and slowest coming back from injury. Hillis averaged 3.6 yards/carry, but also missed playing against many of the lesser defenses. He was on line for a 1000 yard season. He ran for 587 yards in 10 games. That's 939 yards, projected out. Plus he missed the games against the "easier" defenses ..... St Louis .... Jacksonville ..... Seattle ....... Miami .........
Hillis probably would have had an 1100 yard season if he hadn't been hurt.
How is that the fault of the OL?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Last year's run blocking was probably the best I have seen from the Browns since the 80's. Now the actual running was putrid. I don't know which was worse the absolutely no burst or the no vision shared by our backs.
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Quote:
And once again ...... the Browns OL last year was not much worse than the year before. The difference was that total number of passes thrown.
The difference between the 2 OL was basically about 2 QB pressures.
Let's go back to 2009:
In 2009, we had 30 sacks and 61 hits in 443 pass attempts. That's one hit/sack per 4.87 pass attempts.
In 2010, we had 36 sacks and 63 QB hits in 478 pass attempts. This is one sack/hit per 4.83 pass attempts.
In 2011, we had 39 sacks and 83 QB hits, but this was in 570 pass attempts. This is one sack/hit per 4.67 pass attempts.
To put this in context, if we had thrown the same number of passes in 2009 and 2010, we would have allowed 117 hits/sacks in 2009, or 118 in 2009. We allowed a total of 122 hits/sacks last year.
Yep ..... huge difference there.
The Houston Texans "only" allowed 101 sacks/hits last year. (33 sacks and 68 hits) Their line was much better than ours, right?
Well, 101 sacks/hits in 467 pass attempts is one hit/sack every 4.62 pass attempts. That's almost the same as our OL .... though they were just a hair worse.
Last year, the Packers allowed 41 sacks and 73 hits in 552 pass attempts. That's 114 hits/sacks in 552 attempts, or one hit/sack every 4.84 pass attempts. We allowed one every 4.67 pass attempts.
The OL is nowhere near as bad as some pretend.
Now look at a team like St Louis, who allowed 55 sacks and 114 hits in 549 attempts. They got their QB his or sacked once every 3.25 pass attempts. Ouch. No wonder they went through QBs galore.
How about the Niners, who made the NFC Championship game? They allowed 44 sacks and 82 hits, or 126 hits/sacks in only 451 pass attempts. This in one hit/sack per 3.58 pass attempts.
The Bears allowed 49 sacks and 87 hits, or a total of 136 in 473 pass attempts. That's one hit/sack per 3.48 pass attempts. Ouch.
Still want to whine about how bad the OL was?
Yes. Well sense you brought up the Texans, How was their running game last year behind that not so good OL? Where did they finish in the standing? How many high draft picks do they have running the ball. All this with a backup to the backup at QB.
I would love to see the Browns open holes the way the Texans did but thats right their line sucked. Apple and oranges with rushing and passing plays Right? I didn't say the line was the worst I have seen and yes it needs time but I also think, and I know this is going to be a DUH statement but, we need guys to push guys on the OL and depth and that is not something that has been here since this team has returned to the league. Get a good RT and some later round depth as I can see them doing but then again it isn't fast enough for most Browns fans. This is part of the reason I want them to move down in the draft if possible to get more picks and build this the right way ala Pittsburgh, New England, Green Bay and on and on.
Last edited by Sheppard1972; 04/10/12 01:01 AM.
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Quote:
Last year's run blocking was probably the best I have seen from the Browns since the 80's.
Mourg, I think you've become afflicted with that new affliction. I think it's called "Gil Brandt Disease."
Get help buddy.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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When your primary backs are Hillis for just over half the year, Hardesty and Ogbonnaya, you're going to struggle running the ball.
We had the following guys run the ball last year:
Hardesty: 88 carries for 266 yards. Ogbonnaya: 73 carries for 334 yards. Hillis: 161 carries for 587 yards.
Hardesty really dragged our running game down badly. He had about one quarter of our carries last year, and averaged 3 yards/carry. That has nothing to do with the OL.
Ogbonnaya and Hillis (oft injured) combined for 234 carries for 921 yards. That's 3.96 yards/carry. That's not a spectacular average, but for a guy who wasn't on a roster at the beginning of the year, and a guy who battled through injuries and controversy for the entire year last year, that's not horrible.
Also, and one thing that no one really talks about, is that we had an ineffective QB, who played the game in such a way as to cause defenses to pack the box.
I don't know if the line was spectacular, but I do not believe that it was as bad as some make it out to be. The line plays a part in the running game, obviously ....... but the RB plays a big part too. If you are running out scrubs to run the ball you're not likely to get great results.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Kansas City should be on this list. They have not had a quarterback drafted to their team win a game for their team. Seriously, the Chiefs have not had this since September 13, 1987.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Draft is big for these five teams
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