|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,480 |
Quote:
It sounded to me as if he was reluctant to name anybody he met with. As if some team (maybe ours or maybe some other) asked him not to. He even seemed reluctant to confirm that he met with Holmgren. Perhaps he cannot remember any of their names but there are other explanations for his unwillingness to name them.
Anytime you go to a game you are welcome to tailgate with myself, SaintDawg, and CapitalGG. 'Peen even graces with his presence sometimes.  We are in the yellow lot north of the stadium.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
One thing is for certain, there is not one person knows what we are going to do outside of Berea and if they do know there has been every aspect and scenario floated that you would be lucky to pick the right one. Remember that loose lips sink ships and these guys are all on the same page when it comes to protocol. They might not agree on a player but they agree on the approach.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520 |
Quote:
It sounded to me as if he was reluctant to name anybody he met with. As if some team (maybe ours or maybe some other) asked him not to. He even seemed reluctant to confirm that he met with Holmgren. Perhaps he cannot remember any of their names but there are other explanations for his unwillingness to name them.
I'm kind of amazed at the lack of knowlege or insight most of the college kids have about the NFL teams and their structures/players/coaches etc.
Maybe it's just me but most of the one's I've listened to don't have a clue. They were wrapped up in their own little world and devoting all their time to school and football so I guess it makes sense.
Most of the guys on this board can name all the coaches,divisions,top players on each team and recite stats till the cows come home. I remember a "Welcome to the NFL rookie: ( or some such name) show that Colt and others were in a couple years ago after he was drafted and he didn't even know what division the Browns were in.
Then Again.. I remember Curtis Martin talking during an interview and when asked about this team or that team and who he liked, He responded that he wasn't a real big fan and didn't watch many games . He just played for a job. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,828
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,828 |
Quote:
Citing unnamed sources, the magazine reported that Browns general manager Tom Heckert is sold on Blackmon while president Mike Holmgren is weighing whether the team should go with Tannehill.
The Browns need to stir the pot every week or so, to keep the competition guessing.
Floating draft rumors are part of the game, especially if a team is looking to generate interest in trading down.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
"Welcome to the NFL rookie: ( or some such name) show that Colt and others were in a couple years ago after he was drafted and he didn't even know what division the Browns were in.
Didn't even know what conference we were in. Said "uhhhh... Big twelve? With a stupid grin on his face. I've seen people from texas joking. He wasn't joking that he didn't know the conference. Of course he knew it wasn't the big XII. Couldn't name the teams in our division. Carlton Mitchell, who was quizzing him, was completely incredulous.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
BROWNS SHOULD PASS ON QB IN THIS DRAFT The temptation will be there. Not once. Not twice. But three times early in the draft. The need for a quarterback will ratchet up the pressure on the Cleveland Browns to take one every time they're on the clock with their first three picks. The smart move -- albeit not an easy one -- is to pass on a quarterback this year. Texas A&M's Ryan Tannehill will likely be sitting there for the taking at the fourth overall pick. Oklahoma State's Brandon Weeden will be available at the 22nd pick and could still be on the board at the 37th pick. Taking a potential franchise quarterback provides instant promise. But taking Tannehill or Weeden, especially in the first round, is hitting the panic button. It's making a pick based on need and not the best player available, which is the formula for failure in the NFL draft. This isn't to say Tannehill or Weeden will flop as franchise quarterbacks. Tannehill could develop into the next Philip Rivers (who was taken fourth overall in 2004), and Weeden could become this year's Andy Dalton (taken in the second round last year). There is just too much risk when the Browns have so many more needs to address. The only legitimate franchise quarterbacks in this draft are Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III. What the Browns are left to choose from is this: a quarterback who is too inexperienced (Tannehill) or too old (Weeden). Tannehill made 19 starts in college, half as many as Luck. Weeden turns 29 in October, which makes him one year younger than Ben Roethlisberger. Patience is extremely tough when it comes to the quarterback position. That's why you have the Baltimore Ravens trading back in the first round for Kyle Boller in 2003 and the Minnesota Vikings using the 12th overall pick on Christian Ponder last season. Remaining patient is tougher when all your AFC North neighbors found their franchise quarterbacks and went to the playoffs last season. The Browns know they won't close the gap on the rest of the division without a quarterback. It has to be the right quarterback, though. Cleveland attempted to get the right one when it aggressively pursued a chance to draft RG3. When the St. Louis Rams chose to trade the No. 2 overall pick to the Washington Redskins, the Browns' focus had to shift from getting a quarterback to getting weapons for a quarterback. The Browns made it clear that Colt McCoy wasn't their No. 1 choice to be the starter, but they can help him with their first three picks. While the Browns shouldn't reach for players to satisfy need, they can potentially address major holes at running back (Alabama's Trent Richardson), wide receiver (Georgia Tech's Stephen Hill or LSU's Rueben Randle) and right tackle (Stanford's Jonathan Martin or Mississippi's Bobby Massie) with three of the draft's first 37 picks. By using an early-round pick on Tannehill or Weeden, the Browns lose out on an impact player who can fill one of these voids. Some league observers believe the Browns are seriously considering Tannehill. There was a report earlier this week that indicated Cleveland's decision for the fourth overall pick is down to Tannehill and Oklahoma State wide receiver Justin Blackmon. Others suggested the Browns were feigning interest in trading down last week so a team like the Miami Dolphins or Seattle Seahawks won't trade up to No. 3 to take Tannehill. ESPN's Todd McShay thinks it will be tough for the Browns to pass on Tannehill. [+] Enlarge Trent RichardsonRonald Martinez/Getty ImagesMany draft boards have the Browns taking Trent Richardson with their first-round pick. “He belongs in the top 10 and he has a chance to be an elite quarterback in the NFL,” McShay said. “To me, Andrew Luck is No. 1. Then there’s a little bit of a drop-off. There’s a difference, I think, between [Luck] and Robert Griffin III. But I don’t think the difference between Robert Griffin III and Tannehill is all that big, to be quite honest with you.” ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. disagrees with that assessment and thinks it's a mistake to take Tannehill that high. "To me, he's being overdrafted," Kiper Jr. said. "We saw it last year with Christian Ponder. He should've been a second-round pick. Overdrafting is taking place at quarterback, and it's going to happen again with Ryan Tannehill."
The concerns push you to side with Kiper Jr. on this one. According to a recent SportsNation poll, 84 percent of voters say the Browns shouldn't take Tannehill with the fourth overall pick. It's hard to wrap your head around investing that high of a draft choice in a quarterback who was a wide receiver until midway through his junior year. It's difficult to label someone a franchise quarterback when he had a 12-7 record in college and continues to have durability issues.
The alternative is taking Weeden in the second round, or as some suggested, selecting him in the first round. Both would be mistakes, although not as drastic as drafting Tannehill in the top 10. While Weeden's age has to be taken into consideration, there are other factors weighing against him. He struggled with his accuracy at times and forced throws into coverage.By not taking Tannehill or Weeden, the Browns face more questions at quarterback in the future. If McCoy doesn't improve with more playmakers around him, the Browns can look at the 2013 group of free-agent quarterbacks, which might have someone better than Matt Flynn. The draft could have a handful of intriguing first-round quarterback prospects like USC's Matt Barkley, Arkansas' Tyler Wilson, Georgia's Aaron Murray and Oklahoma's Landry Jones. But this isn't the time to talk about 2013. Eight days from today, the Browns face a major decision at quarterback and the future of their team. Taking Tannehill or Weeden isn't the right move. It would be a desperate one. So says ESPN's Hemsley
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
completely agree, and I usually don't agree with with Helmsley.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
On the other hand ........
If they decide to go into 2012 with McCoy and not much else and he flops ......... if the team goes 2-14, or 3-13 ..... then I bet there would be a strong likelihood that this regime would be toast.
I think that Holmgren knows this, hence his pre-season remarks on the need to win this year.
That could add to the pressure for this regime to take a QB early.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
I think about this too. Three things can happen if you don't address the QB situation this year. Keep in mind we are talking about 2nd round picks and 3rd and 4th QB's off the board. Not that they can't be productive or be a great QB in this league but with any QB or player there is always that chance that they are not. If we did not take one and we go offense with our first 3/4 picks with playmakers and a RT we will
(a)have a horrendous year against a very tough schedule and be in a prime position to get Barkley/Jones/Bray/Wilson next year and have weapons and an established offense for them to step into and help be successful ala Pittsburgh,Baltimore, GB.
(b)Have a Great year exceeding everyone's expectations with the weapons and reps in the offseason proving to be what this offense lacked. Seeing overall improvement in anticipation and timing and knowing where to go with the ball..McCoy comes into his own.
(c)McCoy and the offense are marginal where even with weapons McCoy seems to have plateaued as just a decent QB and we got the answer we were looking for. Just average means we are at about 10-15 in the draft and although there is 4 first round QB's we should be able to get one at our spot and if not we will have to offer up some future 1st to get the one we want but will have weapons and an established system still where a rookie QB won't be asked to carry the team.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
Nobody that's available to us in the draft at QB gives us a better chance of winning this year than McCoy. If someone's head needs to roll after this year, it'll be Shurmur's.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
Quote:
Nobody that's available to us in the draft at QB gives us a better chance of winning this year than McCoy. If someone's head needs to roll after this year, it'll be Shurmur's.
I disagree. I do think that Shurmur would be chopped, but it could go far beyond that. I don't think that Shurmur would go by himself.
This group was brought in and put together for one major reason, and that is to find a QB for this team. Thus far they have flopped. if they take a guy high in the draft, they can throw him in and pray that he shows something, but if he doesn't show a lot, well, "We had to go to him sooner than we really wanted to". A QB drafted high buys them time .... at least potentially.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
On the other hand ........
If they decide to go into 2012 with McCoy and not much else and he flops ......... if the team goes 2-14, or 3-13 ..... then I bet there would be a strong likelihood that this regime would be toast.
but I thought the rhetoric was that Randy Lerner doesn't care, doesn't pay attention, etc. how would he even know what our record was? 
in all seriousness, if this FO doesn't have the support of the owner to make the best long-term decisions for the franchise, then the owner IS the problem (that's what Snyder does to his FO). I think Lerner trusts Holmgren and company more than that.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
Like someone famous once said "There is no 'try', there is only 'do' and 'do not'.". This group was brought in to win, not just to find a QB. Holmgren has said a QB needs to play at least 32 games in a system before he can be fairly evaluated. They will make a decision on McCoy this year (even though he will not have had 32 games in the WCO), and the tale of the tape will be W's. If he fails, they start over next year with Barkley, or Jones, one of the other QB phenoms, possibly playing behind a FA veteran / place-holder.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
Quote:
Quote:
On the other hand ........
If they decide to go into 2012 with McCoy and not much else and he flops ......... if the team goes 2-14, or 3-13 ..... then I bet there would be a strong likelihood that this regime would be toast.
but I thought the rhetoric was that Randy Lerner doesn't care, doesn't pay attention, etc. how would he even know what our record was?
in all seriousness, if this FO doesn't have the support of the owner to make the best long-term decisions for the franchise, then the owner IS the problem (that's what Snyder does to his FO). I think Lerner trusts Holmgren and company more than that.
I do think that Randy Lerner cares. In some ways, I think that he cares too much.
That being said, if we go from 4-12, to Mangini with 5-11 and 5-11, to 4-12 ... and then hit a 3-13 or 2-14 season this year, changes will have to be made. The team would absolutely be going in the wrong direction.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Holmgren must have not let us know about his out-clause in that statement since our efforts to get RG3 seem to contradict that wisdom. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
Quote:
Nobody that's available to us in the draft at QB gives us a better chance of winning this year than McCoy. If someone's head needs to roll after this year, it'll be Shurmur's.
I disagree. I do think that Shurmur would be chopped, but it could go far beyond that. I don't think that Shurmur would go by himself.
This group was brought in and put together for one major reason, and that is to find a QB for this team.
I disagree with this statement and the premise that someone will be fired.
These guys were brought in to build a winner, revamp the whole inner workings of this organization on a business side and personnel side, add stability and respect and consistency.
This regime and coach are here for the long haul and as long as they keep building this team properly and making smart business decisions I can't see Lerner finding a more qualified group that would want this job.
Yes they are here to find a QB but that is part of building the team properly. Drafting Brady Quinn was an improper decision, trading out of 5 for a bunch of castoffs was an improper decision, drafting Tim Couch in 99 and not drafting a OL or protecting him was a bad decision.
Right now they can correct a potentially bad decision by addressing the offensive side of the ball around the QB and establishing the system and integrate the players in it another year before a QB(if needed).
I think the bad decision would be to take a gamble on a rookie QB and failing to address the pressing issues at WR/RB and OT on offense and OLB and to a lesser extent CB, RDE and S.
That with the improvement of the 2nd and third year players will help McCoy or give next years QB a suitable situation to come in and have the best situation and a better environment to speed up the evaluation process.
All these guys will be rookies and young players. There will be a second year WR/FB/TE/OG and a rookie RB/WR and a third year QB playing for a second year HC.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
Quote:
Like someone famous once said "There is no 'try', there is only 'do' and 'do not'.". This group was brought in to win, not just to find a QB. Holmgren has said a QB needs to play at least 32 games in a system before he can be fairly evaluated. They will make a decision on McCoy this year (even though he will not have had 32 games in the WCO), and the tale of the tape will be W's. If he fails, they start over next year with Barkley, or Jones, one of the other QB phenoms, possibly playing behind a FA veteran / place-holder.
Perhaps that's true ..... but a QB can't play like crap for a year+ and expect to keep his job ..... no matter what system he's in. Further, I look at a kid like Ryan Tannehill, who was a freakin' WR before he got his shot at QB. He was able to get a handle on their WCO pretty quickly. If ours takes 2 years before the QB can become competent .... then why? Why would our offense be so much harder to learn than every other offense in the NFL? Why would guys like Dalton and Newton be able to come in and dramatically improve their teams as rookies, while our QB flopped around like a fish straight out of the bucket and into the fire?
Further, there are things that McCoy simply does not do at an NFL level, regardless of what the play call is. Making throws is making throws no matter what the system is ..... and there are many throws that McCoy simply cannot make with any degree of consistency at all. His accuracy and anticipation, his ability to throw a receiver open, his unwillingness to take a chance down the field to receivers in single cover, these have nothing to do with the offense at all. These are QB issues, not offense, scheme, receiver, coach, or team problems.
I do worry that Holmgren thinks that his offense is so amazing that he can somehow dazzle the rest of the NFL, even with any crappy QB. Crappy QBs aren't winning Super Bowls ... and I don't care what offense they play in.
As far as "starting over" .... well, that is a rather horrifying thought in year 3 of this regime. According to what some have said, that means that years 4 and 5 are shot while the new QB learns the offense ....... and then maybe by year 6 we'll be competent?
That's as unacceptable as what we've had dumped on us for the past 13 years. I am tired of crap. I see other teams turn things around, and I want the Browns to be one of those teams, instead of the league whipping boys.
The Falcons turned things around. They aren't all the way there yet, but they are a consistent playoff team. Detroit appears to be turning it around. New Orleans turned things around years ago. San Francisco turned things around this past year.
Yet here we are ..... waiting for mediocrity. We're not even hoping to be good ..... just to not suck as much as we have in the past 4 years ... or in almost every one of the past 13. Just don't suck. Man, that should be our team motto. Other teams get "commitment to excellence" ..... we get "Just try not to suck again this year." 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
What do you think then, that Holmgren meant when he said "Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12) as your signature says? Do you think that he just says "Oh well" if we win 2 or 3 games next year?
If he does, then he's shown to be a liar.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
ok, i'm not going to nitpick through all the flaws in that post and just state the obvious:
it all starts with drafting well. if you draft well (particularly high in the draft), then you build your team's skill level and give yourself a chance to compete. yes, you also have to have the proper coaching, etc. in place, but it starts with the talent. there is no such thing as a 1 year turnaround in the NFL.
we have drafted well the past 2 years IMO and I think that as long as that continues we will continue to see a better team being built.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
Maybe there isn't a 1 year turnaround ..... but teams are turned around in 2 or 3 years.
Just not us.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
I'm not sure I believe they really wanted Griffin.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
Simple bubble screen is great for when teams have loaded up with middle pressure and off coverage. I see Colt make that throw and I see Tannehill make that throw and the difference on that simple of a throw is amazing. Now you get to that 7 yards up and out throw that really defines a QB and Colt can not make that throw and it is a throw tannehill makes with ease. It takes a strong arm,Timing and Anticipation and those are qualities Colt simply doesnt have.
Tannehill knows the language and knows the offense and I believe Shurmur would hold an open compeititon. 3 weeks competition would be over.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Like someone famous once said "There is no 'try', there is only 'do' and 'do not'.".
Someone famous? The exact quote is "Do or not do... there is no try" and it was this guy. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,637
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,637 |
I totally agree with this article. Paraphrasing Savage (which could be risky  ) you build a team around the QB, not through him. Nobody after Luck and RG3 gives us a better opportunity to win than a 1 year older & wiser Colt. Perhaps he falls on his face but with a real RT, a good couple of new receivers and Trent Richardson I think they win 2 or 3 more games this year than last and have a good shot at one of the 3 very good QB's coming out next year. This year you have to wash your hands of the drafting QB idea. If we have 3 or 4 fewer holes next year the logic of trading the farm to go up to get "the guy" makes a lot more sense.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Maybe there isn't a 1 year turnaround ..... but teams are turned around in 2 or 3 years.
Just not us.
You are correct in that there is no such thing as "1 year turnaround" and if you look at teams that people claim did it, you can usually find a 2-3 year span where they made a lot of the right moves, then culminated it with the right QB or the right head coach that pushed it over the top.
I honestly believe that if we can fill the WR, RB, RT spot this year in the draft then we are in that position going into 2013... maybe not a "worst to first" but definitely a "worst to competitive" situation... the big problem is that we still have big ??????? at the QB and the HC spot.
i do believe our defense is middle of the road but improving because most of our talent is still young... I believe with a few pieces our offense could also be middleof the road in a year... then it will take the stud QB or the stud HC to push it over the top.. if we need both, then I fear the whole thing could fall apart again..
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 |
Not a Star Wars fan ... I thought it might have been Darth Vader, or maybe Dick Cheney.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Not a Star Wars fan ... I thought it might have been Darth Vader, or maybe Dick Cheney.
I was told they are the same person. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Quote:
What do you think then, that Holmgren meant when he said "Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12) as your signature says? Do you think that he just says "Oh well" if we win 2 or 3 games next year?
If he does, then he's shown to be a liar.
How would he be shown to be a liar? I don't see that statement ending in"if not Shurmer is fired". He says 6-10 isn't good enough because He as You and I and everyone else has higher expectations. But realistically 6-10 in our division with our schedule in our 2nd year is improvement and realistic. I am not sure I see it after a second year, halfway through the third year yes and quite possibly. For all we know Holmgren's plan from the beginning was to build this Organization from the ground up and put everyone in their place and get the ball rolling so all his time and energy can be put into that and once that foundation has been set to come down to the sidelines instead of trying to do everything as a Coach in a dual roll. Shurmer's roll was to put in place the basic principles of WCO and get the players integrated.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 295
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 295 |
Quote:
Quote:
Not a Star Wars fan ... I thought it might have been Darth Vader, or maybe Dick Cheney.
I was told they are the same person.
No, Darth Vader eventually turned back to the good side. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Not a Star Wars fan ... I thought it might have been Darth Vader, or maybe Dick Cheney.
I was told they are the same person.
No, Darth Vader eventually turned back to the good side.
And was mortal.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,828
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,828 |
Quote:
If they decide to go into 2012 with McCoy and not much else and he flops ......... if the team goes 2-14, or 3-13 ..... then I bet there would be a strong likelihood that this regime would be toast.
yt...oh great, let's return to the failed policies of the past...hire and fire...hire and fire...hire and fire.
You ever look to see what the Steelers have done to become successful for the long term?...have you looked?
In 1969 Chuck Noll took over a mess that had not had a winning season in 5 yrs. Noll began rebuilding the Steelers primarily through the draft, but only won 1 game his first year. Noll even drafted a QB in the 2nd round...
In 1970, the Steelers had their second good draft and Noll again drafted a QB, this time in the 1st round...the team won 5 games in Noll's 2nd seasons as HC.
In 1971, the Steelers continued to rebuild their team via the draft and the team won only 6 games after 3 draft classes under Noll. YT would have fired Chuck Noll after the 1970 season and if not then, surely after the 1971 season.
If only YT would have been the Steelers GM...with his hire and fire method of rebuilding, the Steelers may not have ever won a Super Bowl.
In 1972, after 4 drafts, the Steelers made the playoffs.
YT...you tell us what you want...you want the Browns rebuilt for the long term?...like the Steelers were rebuilt under Chuck Noll...OR do you want to continue the Browns rebuild policy of hire and fire every 2-3-4 yrs as the Browns did prior to Holmgren arriving?
What do you want YT...failed policies of the past...OR ...sacrifice now knowing the Browns are being rebuilt for the long term?
The Steelers showed the Browns how to rebuild for the long term...are Browns fans smart enough and tough enough to see Holmgren's plan through?...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
in response to gruden qb camp - luck
thanks for posting that. i noticed during the video that on spider 3 y banana, the FB is always open. west coast offense staple play and FB is always open. that leads me to understand why they took marecic. he knows that play. he ran that play. that play is a staple of the wco. now what happens with mccoy? too many times throws the under to venus on the spider 3 Y banana because he did not come up learning the wco. its all making sense now!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
Maybe there isn't a 1 year turnaround ..... but teams are turned around in 2 or 3 years.
Just not us.
The instant turnarounds are usually teams with a lot of talent in spots but just general underachieving. Mangini gutted our roster and left them with trash. We only had a handful of core guys left after H&H dumped the guys we thought were good but weren't like Pool, Wright etc. Legit keepers include Thomas, Mack, Cribbs, Jackson, Rubin, Dawson. They extended every one of those guys but Mack who doesn't need an extension yet and Dawson who lives on the tag. 2 key players on each side of the ball and 2 special teamers. Identified and locked down, but that's it.
How on earth are they supposed to build a roster from that in 2 years? Usually a team will come away with 2-3 instant starters from a draft and the rest of it takes time to develop. Even if we draft 4 legitimate starters every year (which would be a preposterous hit rate), that's still not enough to turn this team into a contender in 3 years. We need another draft this year and next year along with actual FA next year to round out the roster.
To me, this is a full 5 year deal. I'd give them certain benchmarks to hit.
- If we don't get a QB next year, we MUST come away with one in 2013 when there will likely be at least one if not multiple franchise QBs for the picking. It shouldn't take a bunch of QB gurus 4 years to get a stud.
- Improve in Year 4 and become a contender in Year 5. Our roster is still too thin to have any expectations in Year 3. Sorry, but it's true. No one in our front office is on the hot seat this year and Shurmur only is if we're beyond terrible.
- If the QB they decide on stinks, it'll probably get blown up. Again, they're QB gurus, they should know how to find a good one.
It's not a huge stretch in terms of requirements, it's just that it will take some patience. We can fix our offense in a big way this year but remember, they're all going to be rookies. It'll take time for them to get acclimated. I just hope we give this regime the full 5 years to see how this team actually develops. I refuse to blow things up AGAIN.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
yt...oh great, let's return to the failed policies of the past...hire and fire...hire and fire...hire and fire.
Not that reading and comprehending have ever been high on your priority list... but ytown didn't say he wanted people fired, he said he wouldn't be surprised if they were...
And the Steelers were built in a pre-free agency world where things were much different. Do you remember Lynn Swann holding out for more money? How about when Jack Lambert tested free agency to see if he could make more money? Do you remember all of the conversation about how the Steelers were going to keep all of that talent under the salary cap? No, neither do I.
Quote:
are Browns fans smart enough and tough enough to see Holmgren's plan through?...
This whole macho thing you have going about your desire to suffer and sacrifice for your team is borderline hysterical... no, wait, it's well beyond hysterical.
I'm sure if/when the Browns are good in a few years you will be on here touting how you were the only one who saw it coming and everybody was a wuss about to jump off the bandwagon.. and how you deserve to celebrate more than anybody else because you were loyal to the cause when others weren't..... which will also be hysterical....
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
Just clicking because you're last in line ......
Anyway ..... about the Holmgren Quote ...... here is the part that was left out .....
“Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn’t good enough,” Holmgren said. “And that’s been conveyed. I believe we are going to be better than that — in fact, we’re going to be a lot better than that. I expect this team to take a pretty good jump this year.
“We’ve gone through some blood, sweat and tears here the last couple of years. But now it’s time to start winning those close games, scoring more points, to get fewer penalties, for our experienced guys to get better"
Now you don't convey something, presumably all the way down the line, unless it is important. Listening to his call, he said similar stuff a couple of times that lead me to believe that we better be better than 6-10 or changes will be made.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I wonder if he meant that he has conveyed it down the line or if Lerner has conveyed it to him.... 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,441 |
I really hadn't thought about it that way ....... but could be ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
When I listened to it, to me it sounded like he was the one doing the conveying.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
I'm assuming it's not uncommon for people in the NFL to make the owner promises... the only question is what happens if those promises go unfulfilled? Does it mean nothing, Shurmur goes, Holmgren goes or another clean sweep? I hope Randy is at least patient while we build this roster up but at this point, he's probably just as frustrated as we are if not moreso.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Report: Browns split on Justin
Blackmon, Ryan Tannehill
|
|
