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I love the kid but Richardson at 4 or Martin at 37 is a no brainer for me. It is just how these GM's view the position now days and it is like Decastro. Talent alone Decastro is a top 5 player, he is a hell of a lot better than Kalil. LT vs Guard. Now the same mentality must be applied to RB.
You need a good RB but you can get a good RB more than a full round later then why wouldn't you go that route.
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Because without a great QB we need a GREAT RB.. not just a "good" one. He will single handedly take over some games and make what passing game we do have, that much better. Yes.. he will be the face and heart of the Browns come next Thursday. NO one else left in this draft can come close to the same kind of instant sucess that TR can and we can't pass on the closest, sure thing he represents.
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The kid is a rock.
Shifty.
Will shut down an interior blitzer.
Has nice hands (not Hillis type elite RB hands).
Doesn't fumble.
Basically he's everything you want except a no doubt home run threat.
It's like watching Chris Johnson. When you see that he sees the lane open up...your inner you (hey inner you how ya doin'?!?) says touchdown!
Pretty cool feeling. I haven't had that since Metcalf left. I'd like to have it again.
For me it's a headscratcher that Richardson is held up in this elite light. Oh well.
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Quote:
For me it's a headscratcher that Richardson is held up in this elite light.
What don't you get? Richardson does everything you just said Martin does. Except he did it in the SEC, while Martin did it in the WAC/Mountain West.
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I think Martin is the complete back and will be just as good as Richardson over his career maybe better as he takes less high impact shots. Throw in the homerun hitters like Wilson or Lamichael James and wow behind our big OL with a Glenn or Reiff at RT next to Lauvao.
I see potential greatness for our OL and RB without investing the #4 in those areas. I dont want Kalil nor Richardson at 4 but I wont complain if we do take Richardson.
Gotta get the QB in here and get this thing going.
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I am hoping the Browns don't draft any QB's this year. I know impatient fans want to win this year, but if you think about where this team is and look at the schedule, you will realize that this isn't the year. What makes Indy such a great franchise is they know how to really suck when they need to. It would be exciting if we had Luck or RG3 right now, but we don't. I don't want any of the the 2nd or 3rd tier guys. This year we need to fix the many holes this team has in the draft. Fix RB, WR and OT in the first 2 rounds and try to get depth with the other picks. LOSE this year. Next year (I really do hate saying next year) we can get a real franchise QB and surround him with a legitimate team. Painful pill to swallow, but I would take this over wasting a pick on a guy that won't ever get us where we want to go. The worst thing that can happen is Colt won't be as bad as everyone thought and we end up winning.
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That is the difference as I see Tannehill as the 2nd best QB in this draft class behind Luck and better than every QB in next years class minus Barkley and Barkley has no where near the upside as Tannehill. It is just the better college QB at this point. I have Barkley higher but it would be hard for me to take him with his lack of upside.
Hell I have tannehill rated above every QB in last years class as well.
Cam would not succeed in this offense but he is perfect for Chuds vertical assault. Tannehill is clearly better than Ponder, Locker, Gabbert and Dalton.
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When choosing between a WR who has an attitude problem with Cleveland and is not physically dominating, a QB who has played more games at WR and is a gamble, or a running back who may not be able to go the distance, I'll take the RB every time.
Richardson will be a stud. I'm not sure Blackmon's ceiling is very high, and Tannehill just is not the smart choice for a variety of reasons, the least of which is that he won't be as good as Richardson or Claiborne, IMO.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
I see Tannehill as the 2nd best QB in this draft class behind Luck
How come no one else thinks this (besides Heldawg and THROW LONG)? You see something in Tannehill that no one else does? I'm not even an RGIII guy and I know this is insane.
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better than every QB in next years class minus Barkley and Barkley has no where near the upside as Tannehill.
Who is to say that someone doesn't pop up out of no where (well not no where, but at least make a huge jump) like RGIII and Tannehill did this year? Tannehill might be better than the rest of next year's QB class.
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Hell I have tannehill rated above every QB in last years class as well.
That's just dumb. Knowing what we now know about Cam Newton it would be hard to take any QB over him. He can make every throw, he is huge, he is fast, and he is a hard worker.
Your Tannehill love is out of control. Take off the blinders. And you aren't even the worst one on here; as you at least say you will be able to handle a different pick.
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That is the difference as I see Tannehill as the 2nd best QB in this draft class behind Luck and better than every QB in next years class minus Barkley and Barkley has no where near the upside as Tannehill. It is just the better college QB at this point. I have Barkley higher but it would be hard for me to take him with his lack of upside.
Hell I have tannehill rated above every QB in last years class as well.
Cam would not succeed in this offense but he is perfect for Chuds vertical assault. Tannehill is clearly better than Ponder, Locker, Gabbert and Dalton.
Whew ..... I'm glad that you aren't handling the draft for the Browns ..... 
I will say this much ...... a lot of us have put ourselves on the line with certain players, and will have to live with our opinions. Of course, there are many others who have refused to take any positions at all, so that they can "be right" no matter what happens ...... so I actually prefer your "annoying" Tannehill pimping. lol 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't hitch my wagon to any players because I've gotten burned too many times in the past. If a guy gets drafted by the Browns I am now a fan of that player and hold no bitterness.
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I hope that every player we get is wildly successful.
Heck, if Colt McCoy winds up starting then I hope I am absolutely and 100% wrong, and that he turns out to be a great QB. Same thing if we draft Tannehill. I don't like him as a prospect, but if we draft him then I hope he turns out to be a great player, and proves me wrong.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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First off, I am not a fan of college spread QBs and I have never seen a college QB especially one from the spread take the hits that RG3 takes. He will not make it at this level unless he learns to get rid of the ball quickly. He has a quick release but he is waiting for guys to come 10 yards open most of the time and he gets killed for it.
Cam is an exciting player but he is Tebow with close to DA accuracy. I would buy a ticket to watch him play but I just dont think he would be great in a timing based scheme where accuracy is a must.
I believe Tannehill has special qualities and it isn't about being blind to his faults it is about seeing his strengths and how it all projects to the next level. The draft is about projection and not college stats. What are a players weaknesses and are they likely to overcome those weaknesses?
The kid has everything you want and he is super smart. The recipe is there for great success.
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Taking Weeden, we would have to give him at least 10-12 starts...I think that'd be enough with him to see where he's trending....it wouldn't be very fair, but life isn't fair to QBs in this league....Weeden would not stop the FO going QB high again next draft, esp. if drafted outside the 1st round...then again Holmgren's pride wouldn't allow that
Yup, I agree he'd need to get that many starts, and I agree he wouldn't get that many more. Judge from there.
I do disagree that there isn't much of a gap between taking him late 1st or early 3rd. It's my opinion that we simply cannot afford to miss at 1, 22, and even 37. Now if we take the flyer on him in the 3rd, I can stomach that one, but only because of where we're at with McCoy, with the team, and with where we're likely to be in the future.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Just for the record... If we take someone other than Tannehill I will have the peace of mind that this front office that I have the utmost respect for has put in the time and done all the due diligence possible on the guy I see as a future elite QB in this system. I will say I was wrong and I will be a big fan of our newest Brown. Even if it's out of left field like Michale Floyd or Quinton Coples. With all that said... I'm sure it's Tannehill and the other stuff we've done has been to obfuscate our intrest in him.  
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C'mon man...you can cross the picket line. Tannehill will still love you when it's over. 
The world knows we're taking Richardson. Bill Polian just called him the best player in the draft. McShay has crossed the line and the world has forgiven him. He was all Tannehill last month, but is all-in with Richardson as our pick. Polian has climbed aboard the bandwagon as well.
I've always got seats saved for you and Mourg. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Wow, the Tannehill lover's are like a strange cult.
It appears they have been brain washed to the point they are convinced every possible draft pick sucks besides the one they worship.
I just hope the cult doesn't barricade themselves inside their compound after Tannehill
isn't the pick. That could end badly.
[color:"white"]I've always been crazy, but it's kept me from going insane -Waylon Jennings
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If it goes that way then roll out the red carpet for me!
I have you and others on watch if Tannehill is drafted and may set up a 1-800 help line for those who are dismayed.
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Should we play flat for Matt (Barkley)
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Ok.. it's less than a week. I need to jump off the fence and declare. Before I do so.. these are the things I'm considering: I'm convinced that H and H have more time to get this done than we think they do. I have come to believe that the frawg is right when he says that we are in a bona fide re-build and it's year 2 not year 3. I don't want to get into whether or not Mike erred by keeping EM that extra year.. it's neither here nor there. Having said that.. lets NOT look at a whole hell of a lot about what H/H has said but rather what they have done. We were gawdawful quiet in FA. We essentially stayed out of it. We picked up some guys that are going to be back-ups. That are going to be depth which to my mind has been a major problem for us. I would imagine H / H thought so too. We had an RB that we know has good hands, can catch out of the backfield and can run for 1000.. just walk away. We KNEW that was going to create a hole in our roster. There is simply no way H / H think we have his replacement on the roster right now. We went heavy on D before and our D isn't that terrible. Our problem is offense and playmakers. Our WR corps led the league in drops. We get HALF those drops back, CMC has some decent stats. We went after RG3 and we absolutely should have. I do NOT think this was a reflection on CMC.. it's just that RG3 is a better talent and if you have the chance to better the talent on your roster in an important position then by golly.. you DO it. We had our offer and we stuck to our offer. We had that plan and we implemented that plan. It didn't work out.. we've moved on. I think it's blatantly obvious that we will stick with CMC and this draft will be about getting playmakers and difference makers. The playmakers will be the offensive skill positions, the RB's and the WR's. And the difference makers will be the RT's the DE's and the LB's. Now then.. IF you have a top ten pick and you take a player and he works out great for you, I'm just NOT going to pat you on the back for that.. you SHOULD get that one right. It should be freakin OBVIOUS. Where I'm gonna pat you on the back and give you the official ATTABOYS is the middle rounds. OK.. having said all this.. the easiest way to give a QB help and take some of the load off him is to give him a running game. You just give your back 25 carries. It really, really helps matters if you have a stud RB. We have 13 picks (even tho 4 are garbage 6th and 7th rounders) We SHOULD be able to address some big needs on this team. I generally wince when I see or hear Mel Kiper, but the other day he commented that the team with the worst talent at skill positions was the Browns. I agree with him. Our offensive output agrees with him. Most of you guys have been spending time arguing weeden / tannehill / osweiler.. ad nauseum. Under normal circumstances I would advocate getting Claiborne because I would just LOVE to see QB's trying to get past Haden, Claiborne and Ward... I just get a stiffy thinking about that outfield. But, than not gonna happen. We take Richardson. Then we take the RT. We cannot allow defenses to hammer CMC from the right side anymore. Then we get the WR. I'll let you guys argue about who those picks should be.
SaintDawg™
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I'm sure it's Tannehill
I'm sure you're insane. Not because you like Tannehill, but because you think you're sure who we are going to pick.
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SaintDawg.. Well said and my thoughts exactly. We can't miss at 4 and TR is a sure a thing to be picked as a girl is at the Bunny Ranch 
Last edited by AlwaysABrownsFan; 04/21/12 04:13 AM.
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On the subject of Richardson, he reminds me of Courtney Brown. Too perfect, just the pinacle of everything you'd want. He's too perfect and I think he'd be lackluster here, of course on another team, he'd probably excel.
I think there's probably a 30% chance Richardson ends up Browns at 4, and that might be the most ping pong balls in the nba draft lottery of pick at 4. NObody knows yet? 6 more days.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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..jc...
Listening to Heckert, it sounds as if the Browns are prepared for whatever scenario materializes...
#1...Richardson, if he's on the board when the Browns pick
#2...Kalil, if the Vikings trade out of the #3 slot and Richardson is gone
#3...trade down if someone wants to pay a king's ransom for our #4 pick
I'm not about to define a "king's ransom"...but I would think it would be a deal similar to the Julio Jones deal or more.
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I am hoping the Browns don't draft any QB's this year. I know impatient fans want to win this year, but if you think about where this team is and look at the schedule, you will realize that this isn't the year. What makes Indy such a great franchise is they know how to really suck when they need to. It would be exciting if we had Luck or RG3 right now, but we don't. I don't want any of the the 2nd or 3rd tier guys. This year we need to fix the many holes this team has in the draft. Fix RB, WR and OT in the first 2 rounds and try to get depth with the other picks. LOSE this year. Next year (I really do hate saying next year) we can get a real franchise QB and surround him with a legitimate team. Painful pill to swallow, but I would take this over wasting a pick on a guy that won't ever get us where we want to go. The worst thing that can happen is Colt won't be as bad as everyone thought and we end up winning.
I would agree with this except for that fact that we have Seneca Wallace on the team and he shouldn't be. He should be gone and replaced on the roster. I'd be fine with having Thaddeus Lewis as the #2 and someone like Joshua Cribbs as the emergency #3 QB, but I don't think you want that. I think you'll have to draft a QB somewhere in the draft to be either the back-up or #3. I suppose you could sign one that goes through the draft unselected as the #2 or #3. In any case, Seneca Wallace should be off the team entirely.
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First off, I am not a fan of college spread QBs and I have never seen a college QB especially one from the spread take the hits that RG3 takes. He will not make it at this level unless he learns to get rid of the ball quickly. He has a quick release but he is waiting for guys to come 10 yards open most of the time and he gets killed for it.
Cam is an exciting player but he is Tebow with close to DA accuracy. I would buy a ticket to watch him play but I just dont think he would be great in a timing based scheme where accuracy is a must.
I believe Tannehill has special qualities and it isn't about being blind to his faults it is about seeing his strengths and how it all projects to the next level. The draft is about projection and not college stats. What are a players weaknesses and are they likely to overcome those weaknesses?
The kid has everything you want and he is super smart. The recipe is there for great success.
I don't know whether this plays into your like of Tannehill or not but there is something to be said of him playing at both of the positions. He knows what it takes to be a WR and he's learning what it takes to be a QB. This might help him in his development, but I'm not certain that it actually will.
With that said, I don't think that we need Tannehill. We've got a QB in McCoy (and I'm not sure about Thaddeus Lewis) on the team that can make the throws that we need him to make. We don't need to add Tannehill to the mix.
We definitely need some weapons on the team and I'm still hoping that the Browns trade back and acquire a few more picks (including one this year and one next year) and snagging DeCastro with the first pick (maybe trading back to Buffalo's spot?) We could then use our 22 pick on a target for McCoy that isn't afraid of being a success, Stephen Hill (although we might actually have to move up to get him!  ) Having the additional picks that we received from the trade back should help if we feel we have to move up to get him.
In the 2nd round, take the best remaining RB. I like Doug Martin a lot but I'd be alright with either Lamar Miller or David Wilson. Both Miller and Wilson are smaller backs while Martin is more of a Richardson-type of power back, but with a guard like DeCastro any back becomes more effective running the ball. Having the pulling G down the field blocking helps RBs tremendously.
Taking the best interior lineman in the draft is a no-brainer. He'll be there for the next decade or more. I don't see how you pass up on a player that would be Top 5 (possibly Top 3 in the NFL) from Game 1 and you have them for a decade. You simply don't get a player of that quality on the interior of the line in every draft.
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just clicking...
The following two posts, the first by Chinchilla7222 and the second post from Mourgrym, responding to Chinchilla...
they sum up the dilemma the Browns are facing in this draft.
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Chinchilla7222 writes...
I am hoping the Browns don't draft any QB's this year. I know impatient fans want to win this year, but if you think about where this team is and look at the schedule, you will realize that this isn't the year. What makes Indy such a great franchise is they know how to really suck when they need to. It would be exciting if we had Luck or RG3 right now, but we don't. I don't want any of the the 2nd or 3rd tier guys. This year we need to fix the many holes this team has in the draft. Fix RB, WR and OT in the first 2 rounds and try to get depth with the other picks. LOSE this year. Next year (I really do hate saying next year) we can get a real franchise QB and surround him with a legitimate team. Painful pill to swallow, but I would take this over wasting a pick on a guy that won't ever get us where we want to go. The worst thing that can happen is Colt won't be as bad as everyone thought and we end up winning.
Mourgrym responds...
That is the difference as I see Tannehill as the 2nd best QB in this draft class behind Luck and better than every QB in next years class minus Barkley and Barkley has no where near the upside as Tannehill. It is just the better college QB at this point. I have Barkley higher but it would be hard for me to take him with his lack of upside.
Hell I have tannehill rated above every QB in last years class as well.
Cam would not succeed in this offense but he is perfect for Chuds vertical assault. Tannehill is clearly better than Ponder, Locker, Gabbert and Dalton.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with Chinchilla for the most part..Browns fans need to be patient when it comes to demanding "wins" this season. The Browns are playing a very tough schedule and do not have the experience level and talent level (yet) to defeat most of the veteran teams on our schedule.
Fans need to stay focused on the "big picture", understanding this is the beginning of the 3rd year of the 5 year rebuilding program. In this, the 3rd draft of the rebuild, the Browns are positioned to address the offensive needs.
The Browns offensive needs are WR, OT, RB and QB.
At #4, do the Browns take
...the best RB, Trent Richardson (if available)?
...the best OT, Kalil (if available)?
...the best WR, Blackmon (if available)?
...OR the #3 ranked QB (if available)?
Since the Browns are not forced to address all 4 positions of need (on offense) in one draft, it would seem the wisest move would be to take a #1 rated player at one of our positions of need, rather than a #3 rated player at one of our positions of need.
Just the sense I get from some of the more reputable draft experts as of late, some of shine has come off of Tannehill as far as the Browns pick at #4. Trent Richardson, if available at #4 seems to be the consensus pick. It is hard to feel bad about drafting a player who is the highest rated RB to come out of college since Adrian Peterson. Some draft experts claim Richardson is a more complete RB than Peterson was coming out of college. Bill Polian, the ex president and GM of the Colts said Richardson is the best player in the draft.
But, if the Browns brass see something special in Tannehill, I'm not going to claim the Browns blew the pick. I realize their judgement and resources with which to make this draft decision are far superior than anything a fan has.
A QB this year or a QB next year (if needed), makes no difference to me...
...does it make a difference to Heckert and Holmgren?
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Quote:
That is the difference as I see Tannehill as the 2nd best QB in this draft class behind Luck and better than every QB in next years class minus Barkley and Barkley has no where near the upside as Tannehill. It is just the better college QB at this point. I have Barkley higher but it would be hard for me to take him with his lack of upside.
Hell I have tannehill rated above every QB in last years class as well.
Cam would not succeed in this offense but he is perfect for Chuds vertical assault. Tannehill is clearly better than Ponder, Locker, Gabbert and Dalton.
What the ??????? Pass whatever you are drinking over to me. what are you basing this on??? Better then Cam?(threw 4k yards), Dalton(led his team out the gutter to the playoffs) or Barkley.
Tannehill couldn't beat a top tier team and barely went over .500 at 7-6. Throwing multiple interceptions in mutliple big games. He couldn't be successful against the top 60 rated defenses in Big 12 what makes you think he has this stardom written all over him?
Well everyone one has a right to their opinion... and yours is wrong
Your worse then Skip Bayless with his mancrush on Tebow.
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I'm all for Tannehilll. If by some stroke of luck he free falls to 22. Otherwise I think you take the best player available. IMO that would be TR followed by Claiborne.
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I am basing on where Cam was when coming out of college. Tannehill is a much better passer than Cam was when he came out. As I said, he is a great fit in Chud's offense but would not be in this offense.
You are one of these people that fall in love with college stats. I understand you now and it makes debating you pointless.
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I'm all for Tannehilll. If by some stroke of luck he free falls to 22. Otherwise I think you take the best player available. IMO that would be TR followed by Claiborne.
I'm all for not taking a QB high this year.. give me Darron Thomas in the 6th/7th.. and then next year.. at the moment.. I'm all for Barkley is Colt fails horribly.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Ugh. I want no part of Barely ... err ... I mean Barkley .......  
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
I'm not a stat guy... but you can't not look at stats. They do tend to tell you tendacies. Like how he will respond 2nd half in close games or coming from behind. His accuracy which was only 60% while throwing tons of bubble screens. Thats not very good. Stats do have their value if you know what your looking at. And there is no arguement the competition defensively he went against was not elite at all. He wasn't even the 3rd best QB in his conference.
I just feel there is more to being a QB then just being a great athlete.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391 |
I want TR at #4 and then do the reverse trade from last year. Package #22, #37 and next year's #1 to move up to #5 with Tampa and take Blackmon too.
If they believe Colt's the man for the job, I'd do that trade in heartbeat.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
Do stats reveal that Tannehill led game winning drives only to have the defense return the favor? How about the drives where receivers dropped the winning touchdown? Then you have the fact that Mike Sherman often went ball control in the 2nd half because he had a huge lead. Hell I watched games in which Tannehill had 5 passes or less that failed to hit the receivers hands and at the end of the game he is finishing with a 60% completion percentage.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
I really like Blackmon... but I don't think i would give up 3 picks for him.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, but mine was in first, and mine is right, so it's not Tannehill.
Mourg, I don't see how you get Tannehill out of that quote...
I get Claiborne out of it
Especially if you throw in the quote that you need 3 good CBs in this league... 
If anyone listened to how he spoke about Claiborne..he didn't stammer,stutter and break off his sentence like he does when discussing other prospects..and he said the CB group is not a great group this year but Claiborne is a really really good one..and in this league U need 3 corners..he never spoke of any other position with that much clarity..Except when he spoke about RG/Luck being pro bowl qbs..Oh thats not to say McCoy is bad..we really like McCoy,we do..hehe thhat was funny...
I certainly feel it's Claiborne/Richardson..
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Quote:
he didn't stammer,stutter and break off his sentence like he does when discussing other prospects
Easiest way to tell when Heckert's blowing smoke right there. He starts jabbering a mile a minute.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
Is Tannehill better than McCoy today?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Heckert: "We'll get one of our top
two guys'' at No. 4
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