DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) The Case for Kalil

A quick note before I start this off: I think the Vikings will take Kalil, rendering this somewhat moot. Secondly, I would take a large trade-down from #4 even if Kalil is here.

Without further ado, this is why you take Kalil if he is there at #4.

1.) Kalil is BPA -- of course, if you disagree with this, the rest of the discussion is moot - but this is a popular opinion even among those who would not take Kalil at #3. As well as being the top pass blocking LT in the past 3-4 years, he's a highly underrated run blocker who gets to the second level effectively and can overpower defenders on the first level.

2.) RT is our position of greatest need - Oneil Cousins is our current starter. Repeat that to yourself for a minute. Oneil Cousins might start for the Browns this year. We need a first or second round RT to step in from day one -- so it's not reasonable that "we don't need an RT at #4).

3.) Even if we already have a bona-fide LT in Thomas, LT is not particularly more important than other positions on the line. Let's look at the top ten OLs in pass protection last year (from http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/23/ranking-the-2011-offensive-lines-part-2/):

1.) Tennessee Titans
2.) Buffalo Bills
3.) New Orleans Saints
4.) Houston Texans
5.) Detroit Lions
6.) Cincinnati Bengals
7.) Baltimore Ravens
8.) New England Patriots
9.) Kansas City Chiefs
10.) Cleveland Browns

And according to a poll of the ESPN NFL division analysts, here are the top ten LTs in the NFL last year:

1.) Joe Thomas, Cleveland
2.) Jake Long, Miami
3.) Ryan Clady, Denver
4.) Jordan Gross, Carolina
5.) D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NYJ
6.) Michael Roos, Tennessee
7.) Jason Peters, Philadelphia
8.) Marcus McNeil, San Diego
9.) Donald Penn, Tampa Bay
10.) Matt Light, New England

Now, random odds tell me that I should expect three of these players to be on the best line - even if the results were entirely uncorrelated. Since LT is the most important position on the line - the overlap should be much greater. In fact there are only three players overlapping - Thomas, Light, and Roos. It's only one year, with a lot of statisitical variation - but the point is that the quality of a line is determined just as much by players at the other positions, as at LT.

4.) Kalil will not be "too valuable" to play LT. He has a very cheap contract over his first 4 years. (AJ Green had 4 years, $19.6 Million guaranteed). This is extremely reasonable for a bona fide RT.

5.) Kalil and Thomas will not be in conflict for the LT position when Kalil's rookie contract is over. The timing will be perfect for Kalil to slide over to LT. This is something that most people don't understand. Once Kalil's rookie contract is up, Joe Thomas will be 31. Here is how many game the "greatest LTs of all time" played after they turned 31:

Orlando Pace = 26 (15 with Rams, Never played a full season after turning 30)
Walter Jones = 58 (only one more complete season)
Jonathan Ogden = 40 games (one full season)
Willie Roaf = 58 games (3 full seasons but was traded by Saints for a conditional pick when he turned 31)
Anthony Muonz = 53 games

Even if we decide to hold onto Thomas for another year or two - it is really only one or two years where Kalil and Thomas will overlap with large contracts. Within a year or two of that second contract, Kalil will clearly be the LT. This is not a reason to avoid Kalil.

6.) LT skills translate to RT skills. All of the 1st round "RTs" we're looking at are currently LTs - Martin, Glenn, Reiff, Kalil. They are the best pass protectors available, and that's why they protect a college QBs blind side.

That's the first point I made - it's probable, but not certain, so it's worth thinking about.

That's probably why the Browns went to go visit Kalil as well.

I think that you presented a very good case for taking Kalil if he was to fall to us.

If I could add to what you said it would be that OT's have the lowest bust rate in the first round.

Kalil is #2 (has been for months) on my board behind only Andrew Luck. So yes he could be the BPA at pick 4 if he was to fall to us there.

Good case but NOT happening. Even if he falls to us I don't want a RT at 4. It's depressing even thinking about hearing that on draft down..

If people can devalue a RB and call them a dime a dozen to be taken in later rounds..how can those same people with a straight face they would take a RT that high. We have Joe locked up for a long time and can't plan on selecting a RT now to play LT in 5 years. I'm all for taking OL with our 3rd pick but not before.

If you take Kalil at 4, and grab a WR either at 22 or 37 (Hill, Jeffery, or Sanu are my choices) you can either grab Weeden at 37 or maybe one of the RBs.

Or you can go with Colt, and he has a SOLID Oline, a new WR and possibly a new RB.

I don't see what's wrong with having one of the best Olines in the NFL for the next 4-5 years...

Me personally however, My order would be

1. Trade back and grab Richardson
2. Take Kalil
3. Take Richardson
4. Take Claiborne
...
137. Take Tannehill

I think that he illustrated very well the rookie salary kinda makes it a moot point ... LT, RT, both are still an OT.
The philosophy of not drafting a RT high in the past had much to do with the money. RT is still less valuable then LT, but any OT has high value to a team.
Even more so in today's NFL.

Just ask our opponents who have had to face Sheard if they think that the position is a valuable one.

Besides Kalil being able to fill that black hole at RT, he could also move over to the LT if anything was to happen to take JT out of the game (heaven forbid).

It's probably all a moot point anyway, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over this if I where you.

I am not sure that LT skills always translate to RT. My impression - correct me if I'm wrong - is that a pro LT has to excell at pass protect first, run block second, and that the skill set necessary is the opposite for a pro RT.

I just don't know. How many Pro-Bowl left tackes have lead their team to a Superbowl. If Colt had ALL day to read a defense and pass to our group would it really matter all that much ?

It's a balance, but I still say you win more games with studs that actually touch the ball once in awhile. NFL scouts and coaches SHOULD be able to get a decent guy to play RT a lot easier and later than it is to find a guy like TR. Those guys roll out of bed with those natural gifts, little of it is coached.

I have no problem taking a RT in the top 10 but he must be an excellent pass blocker as well as a dominant run blocker and there is no tackle in this draft that fits that bill.

I would be just as thrilled with drafting Massie or Swartz as I would with Kalil. Don't believe there would be any real drop off at the position. lose a little in pass protection but gain in run blocking.

The talk of Martin falling into the 2nd is really good news for us. He was my favorite tackle out of the bunch. He has a bit of that nasty streak I like even in their zone scheme. I think he is better suited for a more in line scheme like ours


Kalil, I didnt pay as much attention to him because I didnt think there was any chance of us taking him but when I did watch him I saw more walling off than driving people off.

Warner was not mobile, but he was immediate with his decisions and throws.

It doesn't take 10 seconds for a receiver to get 20 yards down the field. Sometimes I think that people (not necessarily you) forget this. A receiver can get 20 yards downfield and make a break, set down in a zone, or so on in a matter of 2-2.5 seconds. Even then, many times the QB will have already thrown the ball. So how long does the line really have to block for great QBs?

Hell, when Manning was playing in Indy, they would throw together any crappy line because they knew that Manning would have the ball out of his hands in about 1-2 seconds on almost every play. he identified the single cover and attacked it. He threw to receivers before they made their breaks. He did everything imaginable to help his OL be successful.

The guy I think is a can't miss is DeCastro. He will be a pro bowler but he is a guard. 4 is too high and 22 is too low. Does anybody else want this guy and know how can we get him? Can Pinkston play RT?

I know Heckert could have been trying to deceive, but he seemed to think the Browns would get one of the 18 guys they are targeting at 22. It sounds like he won't move up from 22. If we can trade down from 4 and still get Richardson or Claiborne, and move up from 22 I would like either DeCastro or Floyd.

The team has repeatedly said that they like Pinkston at G, and that he is not moving to RT. They have been really emphatic about it too.

I do not think that we will see Pinkston move anywhere.

Colt McCoy is to QB what Oniel Cousins is to RT....1 of the 5 worst starters at their position...and QB has more value than RT...I'd rather go into the season with Cousins if I had a Manning than McCoy if I had a Tyron Smith....bottom line is: more wins with Manning/Cousins than McCoy/Smith, so if you feel ANGST with Cousins you should go all Michael Myers thinking about Colt starting another season

He never said anything about Tannehill...

Quarterback is much more imporatant to look for in the very 1st round.
Offensive Tackles can be found later on, while Quarterbacks run out quickly.

I've made the point Qb's make the OL look good. Didn't this guy block for Luck?

Can Anyone on this message board honestly say they think even 10% that the Redskins might have made this trade up to #2 for " Kalil" or any Offensive lineman?

The Quarterback changes everything. You have to get the Quarterback Quarterback Quarterback.

Do I want a Franchise QB? Yes.

Does that mean I just take the highest rated QB? No.

I agree completely.

What exactly is a 'franchise QB'? Someone have a definition that I can somehow verify?

a franchise player is an athlete who is not simply the best player on their team.... but a player that the team can build their "franchise" (team) around for the foreseeable future......

Quote:

---

Walks on water, throws the football perfectly (without even touching it) and is inducted to the Hall of Fame while still playing.

---

you forgot the part...where they turn losses into wins...

A titanium vibrator?

This draft doesn't have anyone in it that makes me go Wow ! Joe Thomas has done a great job for this team... And with his effort...there has not been much to show for it... in the win / loss %...

As much as I like Kalil...I don't know if spending the first pick on him would be a factor in the Offensive production...Although..it could make a big impact..all assumption..

That would give the O-line 3 number one picks on it... Mack in "09"...

Kalil would be the BPA.... But is it the right move for this team... Of course he will improve the line.... But will it improve the Offensive play ? Got to have play makers who can utilize the strengths he brings...

If...The Browns wanted to go with O-line with the first pick....A trade down would seem a little more sensible.. I'm just not sold on spending 1a on a RT...

We could have a line of number one draft picks...Is that enough to Win more games with this system ?



At this point...I'm liking the CB spot...jmo..

Talk heats up that Matt Kalil could slide
Posted by Michael David Smith on April 22, 2012, 11:43 AM EDT
Matt Kalil AP

USC left tackle Matt Kalil has been tied to the Vikings with the third pick in the NFL draft for so long that hardly anyone has even stopped to think about where Kalil might go if the Vikings don’t draft him. But as we enter draft week, there’s increasing talk that the Vikings could pass on Kalil — and Kalil could side after that.

We noted last week that the Vikings have interest in not just Kalil but also Oklahoma State’s Justin Blackmon and LSU’s Morris Claiborne, and ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported on SportsCenter this morning that the interest from the Vikings in all three of those players is very real. The word out of Minnesota is that the Vikings have not decided to take Kalil, contrary to what has been believed.

So if the Vikings were to pass on Kalil, where would he end up? As Schefter noted, he could slide a few picks, as the next teams on the board — Browns at No. 4, Buccaneers at No. 5, Rams at No. 6 and Jaguars at No. 7 — all could conceivably pass on the draft’s top tackle.

Then there’s the assessment from Greg Cosell of NFL Films, who writes that in his own mock draft, not only does Kalil not go at No. 3 to the Vikings, but Kalil doesn’t even go in the Top 10. Cosell isn’t necessarily down on Kalil — he calls Kalil the top tackle in the draft — but he doesn’t think Kalil’s talents and any team’s needs align until at least 10 picks are off the board.

It’s still entirely possible, maybe even probable, that Kalil will go third overall to the Vikings. But after months of mock drafts listing Kalil as the third player off the board, that doesn’t seem like such a sure thing. web page

It's probably just the Vikings trying to generate some interest in teams moving up to 3. If everyone is sold on the fact the Vikings are taking Kalil, no one is going to come calling.

Bill Polian said Kalil isn't worth #3. He said he isn't Jake Long and isn't an elite LT. He lacks strength.

More Smoke, He's A Viking, mark it down, done deal