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So as we all know our recievers were pretty bad last season. So what do we do now? We drafted 1 WR and picked up 3 as UDFA's. The competition needs raised way high. I am in favor of getting tons of WR's in camp to fight it out. As far as I'm concerned only Greg Little should make this team. Norwood is probably 2nd on the list for me. We need to do more to try to upgrade here(this weekend is a solid start in the right direction). I hear Jacoby Jones on the Texans in on the trade block. Have you heard of anyone else being on the trade block? Are there any free agents left you desire?
Our WR's for last season:Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood, Carlton Mitchell, Rod Windsor,
Added this weekend: Travis Benjamin, Josh Cooper, Jermaine Saffold, Bert Reed
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It is a weak group no doubt.
But I'm still surprised we are in year 3 of Heckert and people refuse to believe this guy. He pretty much gives us the truth every time he opens his mouth. And they like our WRs. I can only assume they've seen stuff on tape that they really believe will get rectified with better QB play. And let's face it that's not too far fetched.
Little is going to be a good one.
I think Norwood is going to be solid.
I think MoMass is terrible but I like to engage in a bit of hyperbole when it comes to him. I think he is a significant contributor on a better team. His play will improve the most with better QB play.
I think Cribbs is better than people give him credit for.
Well, yeah it's a pretty weak group .....I assume we they will get better with better QB play....then they can truly figure what the trash is going into next offseason.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I would be surprised if we make a trade for a receiver at this point ..... unless he is a real speed guy.
We have a lot of receivers who are the 6'1" - 6'3", 205-220# type receivers. Big bodied guys with decent speed, but no real burners.
The WCO really doesn't rely upon burners on the outside, but more speed is never a bad thing.
However, most teams will not give up a solid receiver with plus speed. Anyone we could trade for would have flaws, and I have to wonder if they, like the receivers available in rounds 4 on, would be appreciable upgrades.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Best available FA WR's, according to Bleacher Report.com (which never fails to gag and totally lock up my laptop) are:
1. Plaxico Burress
2. Mike Sims-Walker
3. Patrick Crayton
4. Mike Williams
5. Mark Clayton
I guess they don't think Braylon Edwards is better than any of those guys, because he's a FA too. I also read that Santonio Holmes' act has worn thin in New York, and he could be had for a song. The Jets did draft Stephen Hill, so there could be something to that rumor.
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IMO we have to have one speedster to keep the safety's honest.
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I think I read something yesterday about Lee Evans being available still in FA. Think it said he was 31 now. He had a bad year last year for the Ravens, but he was a beast in Buffalo a couple years back. I Don't think it would hurt bringing him in solely to have that veteran presence on WR that we don't have.
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He pretty much gives us the truth every time he opens his mouth.
On trading up to #3: "It's probably not something we're going to do. We'll get a very good player at 4"
On taking players early/reaching or trading up for need: "One thing you can't do is panic. We did that twice at (defensive tackle and pass rusher) and it didn't work out. That's when you start to make mistakes."
On what to do with draft picks after missing out on RGIII: "We're going to use those picks on starters that we can put around the QB. We're not down on Colt at all."
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We upgraded the WRs big time by upgrading the QB. Mo Mass was looking like a real prospect until one thing happened. That was Colt taking over at QB. Even when Jake Delhomme was at QB, Mo looked like a solid receiver.
Last year we added Little and he was pretty damn good considering he hadn't played football in over a year. Josh Cribbs was coming into his own as a receiver at the end of last year. I saw some good things from him and we still have Norwood who was coming into his own until he was injured.
I believe this group is capable of much more than we have seen. Also Evan Moore and our receivers will add a lot to the passing game. Jordan Cameron might be the big surprise this season.
Colt faced 8 and 9 man fronts yet rarely took a shot. That should change with Weeden but we will probably still be seeing 8 and 9 until he shows he can hit those targets and our receivers have to beat 1 on 1 coverage which they often did but it went unnoticed.
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I dont know why anyone is surprised..
the eagles went FOREVER before drafting their current starters. And even pre-Jackson and Maclin, they fielded a pretty good offense.
WR's won't make or break your offense, but your QB will.
Can the position be upgraded? sure.. but goodness.. how many times a day to we have to post about it?
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We have the worst WR core in the league. We have nobody teams have to respect. Next year the game plan is to put 8 in the box and stop Trent.
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I was going to mention that I think Evan Moore should be considered a WR, because he's sure not a TE. A big, kinda slow (4.63) WR, sure, but I could see him causing some mismatches with his height and jump ability - like a poor man's Joe J or Dave Logan.
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I'm putting last year in the books and closing it...As we all knew that it was nothing more than a watch and learn season...
The Browns have added a few needed pieces on the coaching staff...." OC "...
It may be enough to get more out of the receiving core...
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I'm not saying the guy bats a thousand, but even with the stuff you quoted where did he lie? He said they probably wouldn't trade to 3. He gave himself some wiggle room there. And on the reaches, everyone is assuming they reached.....has the FO come out and said they felt they reached?
I'll give you the third one. Again, I'm not saying the guy bats a thousand, but things change between when something is said and when things play out too. And for the most part these guys are pretty honest with the fans and media.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Career stats
2 seasons
3 receptions
31 yards
This year the league is going to fear Carlton Mitchell
Is there some reason this guy is still on the team?
#GMSTRONG
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OK, I was wrong: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/cleveland_browns_gm_tom_hecker_13.htmlQuote:
There's been speculation some teams might try to trade with Minnesota to get the man they really want, especially if they think the Browns will take him at No. 4.
"We're not trading up, I guarantee that," Heckert said. "There's going to be five guys that we really like and we're going to get a really good player at number four. But we could still get a really good player at five, six, seven, eight too."
And you're right, they didn't come right out and say they reached for him, but they were willing to publilcly say this much about taking him where they did, basically indicating that taking him at 22 wasn't their plan, but that they were set on taking him:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...23-f10d30d53c82
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There were some things that transpired in that first round as always does as you’re going through the draft. So instead of waiting and rolling the dice just a little bit perhaps and seeing another way to go there we said, ‘Lets not run the risk and take Brandon at the 22nd pick.’
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Quote:
Career stats
2 seasons
3 receptions
31 yards
This year the league is going to fear Carlton Mitchell
Is there some reason this guy is still on the team?
I would say there probably is. He was considered a project, and that's how they have viewed him. He never got on the field, but, when at the end of the season he did, he made a couple catches.
I have no idea what his future holds, but I do believe they are keeping him around for a reason. Ther two balls they threw to him were caught, so that is a start.
For the front office to choose a QB instead of WRs, speaks volumes of what they saw on tape. Holmgren and Shurmur both said at times recievers were open. Many posters here, who attended the games have also said there were guys open. I have to believe that they feel the QB was the bigger problem.
They might still bring in a vet receiver, but if they don't, it is probably because film has shown that they are not the problem.
#gmstrong
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And you're right, they didn't come right out and say they reached for him, but they were willing to publilcly say this much about taking him where they did, basically indicating that taking him at 22 wasn't their plan, but that they were set on taking him:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...23-f10d30d53c82
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There were some things that transpired in that first round as always does as you’re going through the draft. So instead of waiting and rolling the dice just a little bit perhaps and seeing another way to go there we said, ‘Lets not run the risk and take Brandon at the 22nd pick.’
IMO this hardly defines a reach. You and Anarchy have an agenda of hate for Holmgren and Heckert. It is too obvious not to see . Anybody who has been on these boards for the past couple weeks can clearly see it. So while your opinion is welcomed, your bias is obvious, and anything you claim will be treated accordingly. You two constantly claim this team has no chance, I wonder seriously why you follow them at all.
#gmstrong
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Ok, the first article is over a month old.
Didn't they soften their stance on trading up leading Heckert to use the term "probably not" as evidenced by the first quote you used? Additionally, I thought the most recent stuff - you know the stuff closest to when the draft actually occurred - had us liking four guys so we were guaranteed to get one at 4. The article you used mentions 5 or 6...you know the article that is over a month old.
We can go round and round with this all day. Bottom line an NFL GM is permitted to change his mind over time and he's also permitted to play the draft game ....you know that whole misdirection thing....but take his entire body of work ....over three years worth ....and not just at draft time ....and this guy is usually pretty straight up.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think I read something yesterday about Lee Evans being available still in FA. Think it said he was 31 now. He had a bad year last year for the Ravens, but he was a beast in Buffalo a couple years back. I Don't think it would hurt bringing him in solely to have that veteran presence on WR that we don't have.
Lee Evans signed with the Jaguars. He disappeared in Baltimore last year. 4 catches on the year. Yea! 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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lol can I tell my wife that my guarantees were made more than a month ago?
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We have the worst WR core in the league. We have nobody teams have to respect. Next year the game plan is to put 8 in the box and stop Trent.
I just dont get these feelings. Our receivers are every bit as good as what the Giants/Patriots/ trot out there. And they are a SB contending team. You dont need Calvin Johnson to score points and win games.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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lol can I tell my wife that my guarantees were made more than a month ago?
Only if you are drafting a new wife. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
And you're right, they didn't come right out and say they reached for him, but they were willing to publilcly say this much about taking him where they did, basically indicating that taking him at 22 wasn't their plan, but that they were set on taking him:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...23-f10d30d53c82
Quote:
There were some things that transpired in that first round as always does as you’re going through the draft. So instead of waiting and rolling the dice just a little bit perhaps and seeing another way to go there we said, ‘Lets not run the risk and take Brandon at the 22nd pick.’
IMO this hardly defines a reach. You and Anarchy have an agenda of hate for Holmgren and Heckert. It is too obvious not to see . Anybody who has been on these boards for the past couple weeks can clearly see it. So while your opinion is welcomed, your bias is obvious, and anything you claim will be treated accordingly. You two constantly claim this team has no chance, I wonder seriously why you follow them at all.
BT, I respect your opinion on here and know you only post when you feel something has to be said. I do not have a hate agenda on Holmgren and Heckert. In fact, I was really anticipating a very, very good draft.
You could say I'm obsessed with trying to find a way to improve the Browns. I have spent so much time on the draft that, outside of the DT from Cincinnati, i knew what each player that we drafted looks like running in their uniform, and would be able to pick each of their faces out from a group of 50 headshots. I can't say anything about the abilities of the DT from Cincy... I've never watched him play and have only seen his stats (which are actually decent for a DT) but when your team is as bad as ours, has as many holes as ours, why are you picking up an intended backup in the third round at a position where you have above-average starters and decent depth?
I just care too much about the team. When I see an opportunity to turn our weaknesses into strengths, and instead we make lateral moves or burn resources, I get angry, because we don't have many opportunities to get better. We can't get decent free agents to come here, so we have to hit home runs in the draft just to compete.
Why do Holmgren and Shurmur tell us it takes two years for a QB to learn the WCO, then draft another QB in the first round with question marks (mainly mobility, experience (system), vision issues to me. I have no qualms about his age or his arm) after giving Colt one year to learn it? What have our WRs done to show they warrant a pass, besides not adjusting to balls (MoMass) and dropping passes (Little.) Don't get me wrong, I think Little can get better, but he's long-term limited in the speed department. MoMass to me seems like a lost cause. Norwood is an acceptable #3 receiver, and Cribbs is a good #4 receiver. I think we could have hugely upgraded our #1 this year with an amazing WR prospect in Blackmon. I think we could have improved our front line taking Childs. I think we could have gone from bottom 3 WR groups to top 5 WR groups if we had decided to take both Blackmon and had the trade ammo to go get Wright, when it was obvious to everyone he'd get taken 1, 2, or 3 picks before us. I think we also could have upgraded our slot position quite a bit with J. Wright, Wylie, Adams, or Rainey. I like Benjamin OK, but I feel like hoping he makes a significant impact is wishful thinking. I wanted us to turns weaknesses into strengths with the draft.
Even some of the people who thought trading up for Richardson was the right thing to do knew we couldn't make a significant improvement to our WR corps after the first round, saying things like "DON'T TAKE A WR JUST TO TAKE ONE, BLACKMON AND FLOYD ARE GONE AND THERE'S NOBODY ELSE TO IMPROVE OUR #1 WR" in the draft day threads. There were plenty of opportunities throughout the draft to improve our RB position. After the first round, we were pretty much relegated to moderate/potential upgrades at WR. It was so obvious that that would be the case leading up to the draft yet H&H decided that the RB option was the better course.
I like Schwartz as a player. He made first-team Pac-12 as an OT in a conference with Kalil and Martin. But when given the option between taking him at 37 and Cordy Glenn (who is 40 pounds heavier, is stronger, and more athletic) being gifted to you at that pick, I don't see why you don't jump on that opportunity? Is Schwartz going to make our RBs better? I don't know. But I can say for sure that Glenn would. Either guy upgrades our pass pro.
I don't know... I just see a lot of opportunities wasted in this draft. This was our big shot as we won't have nearly the ammo in next draft that we did in this one. And we'll probably have Aaron Murray, Tyler Wilson, and Tyler Bray staring us in the face with our first round pick, and we won't draft them because we took a QB in the first this year.
I'd better calm down... I'm giving myself heart palpitations.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 04/29/12 12:49 PM.
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Quote:
Quote:
We have the worst WR core in the league. We have nobody teams have to respect. Next year the game plan is to put 8 in the box and stop Trent.
Our receivers are every bit as good as what the Giants/Patriots/ trot out there.
What?!? 
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The thing that struck me with Blackmon, is that I watched tons of video of him, and while he looked very good one thing stood out. Just about every pass he caught hit him in the numbers. At the time I was watching, I didn't realize it was Weeden making the throws.
I commented to one of my friends about how he constantly had the ball hit him in stride or right in the numbers, he was the one who made me realize that Weeden was the QB. IMO, Blackmon is good, but Weeden could be very well responsible for many of his stats. I also believe that after Floyd, most of the receivers left were comparable to what we already have.
As for Glenn, I watched a lot of videos on all the lineman, and many compare him to Gallery. It is said he has short arms, and many of the commentators stated that he might be better suited at gaurd in the pros. I would also like to point out that they took 3 players capable of playing RT, that to me shows they are commited to building the Oline and adding depth.
I respect your thoughts about thinking they wasted picks, but you also seem to have already convinced yourself that Weeden is a failure. IMO that is not being fair to Weeden, or yourself.
I don't understand how many get so upset, and jump off the cliff so quickly. Let it play out, they made moves they feel will help, give it time to play out.
I truly believe this team was better than they looked last year. I also think many off the later round guys they picked up will contribute this year. We all are tired of the "3 year" plans that keep being rebooted, but for once, I really feel the team is being built correctly, and as much as I hate waiting, I think this time it will be worth it.
I hope you do calm down and relax, life is too short to get too worked up about anything. Sit back and try to look at the positives for a while, you will find it more enjoyable in the long run.
#gmstrong
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BT, I agree that Weedon is a more accurate passer than is McCoy, but I worry about him staring down his receivers like he did in college. Also, I don't think it's fair to expect Weeden to come in and have control of the offense as a rookie, as even our coaches and executives say it's a difficult offense to learn and to run.
As far as Cordy Glenn, the guy actually has really long arms (measured 36" at the combine) whereas Joe T's arms are 32 1/2". I think the main reason they were talking about moving him to OG in the pros was he's a huge fatty and they were worried about his athleticism. I think he answered that pretty well at the combine, turning in one of the most-athletic performances of all the lineman. He certainly has the athleticism and strength to play on the right side.
I'm sure that some of this is colored by the players I really hoped we would get, but I wanted those players for a reason. If I try to rationalize it to myself, the best I can come up with is "well, they shouldn't have been there when our picks came up, so no big loss" but I've never been a sour grapes kind of person.
We did acquire some talent. Weeden is the big question mark. Can he go from being a guy who takes the snap out of the shotgun and pitching a strike to his wideout in stride to a guy who drops back from center, makes multiple reads, and still replicate the same success and accuracy? Can he do it without a dominant presence at WR who can turn a 7-yard slant into a 20-25 yard gain on a regular basis? We don't know. I hope so, because we've taken ourselves out of the running for the QBs coming out next year that have experience doing those sorts of things (Tennessee, Arkansas, USC, UNC, Georgia.)
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I hope so, because we've taken ourselves out of the running for the QBs coming out next year that have experience doing those sorts of things (Tennessee, Arkansas, USC, UNC, Georgia.)
How so?
#gmstrong
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I am only basing this on past history, but I'm sure that more than 90% of the time when a team drafts a QB in the first round they don't draft another in the first or high in the second round the next year.
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That's one of the things I like about Heckert. I believe that if Weeden fails, he would draft a top QB next year.
I hope he doesn't have to, but if he does, I feel he has the nuts to do it and not let the team stuggle for another year. I think him drafting Weeden when so many think McCoy should get more time is proof. He was the starter, but it is more than evident that they felt he could be upgraded.
If they draft a QB every year, it wouldn't bother me, eventually they got to hit the right guy.
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I think time will tell on this group. I honestly liked what I saw out of Norwood, and hopefully Little improves, but Momass I have lost hope for. It was not my opinion that the QB was the cause of their suckiness. If you lead the league in drops, thats means that in the eyes of the NFL, the QB put the ball in a place where the receiver should have caught it.
I like TRich, but if we really were targeting Weeden, than grabbing Blackmon, his favorite target, made alot of sense. Teams would have keyed on him, thus freeing up the other guys.
Just my $0.02 FWIW.
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Glenn had the long arms and ok feet but he doesn't really play with that mean streak you want, he is pretty finesse for a guy his size. Martin had the great feet but played in that zone scheme as a wall of blocker and not a mauler. We want maulers.
Swartz has good feet but not great. Good size and strength and he just plays meaner. The guy loves to hit and he fits what we are looking for. He was the guy noone was talking about coming into the senior bowl and he outperformed everyone there. He has great bend and initial pop. Perfect for RT in our scheme.
I liked all 3 guys for obvious reasons but I understand the pick. Honestly, I cant believe LT needy teams passed on Martin and Glenn but system specific draft took place and he is our RT.
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I've just watched 5 of Weeden's games. Your take on him is exactly opposite of mine.
He is NOT an accurate passer. Not at all from the games I watched (courtesy of lyouk........however his name is spelled..........in the first weeden thread).
Accuracy is an afterthought - from what I saw. I must have just seen the wrong tapes I guess.
Honestly, from the 5 games I watched, I sat back and thought "accuracy is this guys claim to fame? Seriously?"
After watching those 5 games, I will say Blackmon is a pretty doggone good receiver. I have this feeling Blackmon made Weeden. Again, if Weeden is known for accuracy, I should've been a qb in college. Heck, at 43, I should be now I guess.
In those 5 games I watched, I saw passes batted down, throws that were short (many, many of those), over throws...........I just didn't see the accuracy.
I did see receivers that made fantastic catches.
And in fairness, I saw some decent accuracy. Mainly on dump offs - and Weeden had a ton of dump offs.
The more tape I watched of Weeden - knowing we drafted him in round 1 at #22, the more I wondered why?
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I don't like the pick but it is an upgrade. Just have to wait and see on how much of an upgrade it will truly be. After we passed on Tannehill, I wouldn't have drafted anyone until next year.
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Posts: 50,418
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
I am really curious to see who has the bigger impact in the NFL this coming season: Blackmon or Weeden.
It will be interesting to see because Blackmon went to Jacksonville, where Blaine Gabbert was as close to being a Colt McCoy clone last year as is possible.
We drafted Weeden, but left the receiver corps almost completely alone.
It will be interesting to see which team improves more.
The Jaguars already had a great running back, and we added Richardson.
We have the same receivers with a new QB. They have a shiny new receiver with the same QB.
Which team improves more next year?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
I'd put my money on Blackmon. Kid is a stud day 1.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
It'll be an interesting experiment.
Does the new WR make the QB in Jacksonville better? (and he should get better from year 1 to year 2 anyway)
Or ..... does a new QB make the receivers in Cleveland better? (Likewise, Little should improve from year 1 to year 2)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 249 |
I agree with this for the most part. Little: Undecided, I think he has potential and he started to show it late last season. However he will need to show more for the benefit of this offense. I'm worried about the drops, if he's dropping passes from McCoy, what's he gonna do trying to catch these bombs from Weeden? Norwood: He's quick and he's got good hands but he's small and he's not "fast". I don't think he's a starting NFL WR and would probably be a special teamer on most other NFL Teams. For us, we're talking about him as a #3. This says it all IMO. I like Norwood, but I haven't seen enough of him. MoMass: I think he should have been cut with Robo... He's done nothing to convince me he's a starting NFL WR since showing moderate promise in his rookie season. Cribbs: I think he's the teams best WR. He's a much better wide out than he is given credit for being and he IS a big play threat. That TD catch he had vs Miami was probably the highlight of the entire season, as it was one of the best throws I've seen McCoy make and it was an awesome catch as well. He may not be a complete receiver but Cribbs is a football player and he makes plays, Weeden will need that. IF Weeden has the impact they drafted him to have, he should make all these WR's better. Quote:
It is a weak group no doubt.
Little is going to be a good one.
I think Norwood is going to be solid.
I think MoMass is terrible but I like to engage in a bit of hyperbole when it comes to him. I think he is a significant contributor on a better team. His play will improve the most with better QB play.
I think Cribbs is better than people give him credit for.
Well, yeah it's a pretty weak group .....I assume we they will get better with better QB play....then they can truly figure what the trash is going into next offseason.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 745
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 745 |
The problem with the Browns WR's is that that don't have that one guy who dominated at the collegiate level.
One guy that could take over a game when he had to.
It looks like Little is the number guy again.
He's better suited playing the Z instead of the X.
Cribbs is a poor mans Greg Little. Basically the same guy. Strong,physical. Not easy to bring down with one guy. But lacks top end dragstrip speed.
Massaqiou lacks the desire the be that X. hes a reminder of Mangini's ineptness
Norwood is a slot guy..the F whatever you want to draw it up.
Mitchell will never come around.
Benjamin will get pressed right away. No DB is dumb enough to give him a 6 yard cushion.
Weeden doesn't have a security blanket anymore.
He's gonna have to spread ball out.
The Browns stil have a bottom 3 WR core
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,984
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,984 |
I predict Little kicks butt this year
Joe Thomas #73
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