Actually I think that both Little and Massaquoi will do well this coming year.
I am really getting more and more excited about this coming year every passing day.
When does Training Camp start???????
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I suspect that he will have more than 5 TDs if he catches 70 balls this year.
He won't be catching late 3 yard passes anymore. Hit him in stride and he gives you what people said was Blackmon's strength ..... an ability to tear free of tackles, and a refusal to go down on contact.
I can't wait to see him catch some passes in stride.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Apparently, we are being run by bunch of "Ytown" clones.. They apparently believe that adding a better QB (if indeed he is) will suddenly make our receivers better...
Color me confused....
But, this I will say,, Adding what is hopefully a better QB, RB and RT.. and yeah,, more time to find open receivers and I suppose it could work out jjust fine.
My biggest hope at this point is that Little grows and Mitchell finally gets it.
Clearly, I'm not in a good mood over this draft...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: So as we all know our recievers were pretty bad last season. So what do we do now? We drafted 1 WR and picked up 3 as UDFA's. The competition needs raised way high. I am in favor of getting tons of WR's in camp to fight it out. As far as I'm concerned only Greg Little should make this team. Norwood is probably 2nd on the list for me. We need to do more to try to upgrade here(this weekend is a solid start in the right direction). I hear Jacoby Jones on the Texans in on the trade block. Have you heard of anyone else being on the trade block? Are there any free agents left you desire?
Our WR's for last season:Greg Little, Mohammad Massaquoi, Josh Cribbs, Jordan Norwood, Carlton Mitchell, Rod Windsor,
Okay Lets take another approach/angle to/on this question of 'Our WR's'.
How many of you supporters of this unit would place them as starting WR's on another team over what they have already? That would be an interesting case study.
Quote: Wasn't it you last year that noticed our receivers were open constantly downfield last year but were never thrown to?
That's so laughable it's pathetic.
Our receivers were "constantly open downfield?" Please.
But, as you wish. If they were "constantly open downfield", then I would expect, this year, with a first round qb.........I will expect to see 10 to 30 yd. passes constantly. Constantly, as in every other pass play.
Quote: I have and will continue to maintain that our receivers were held back by McCoy, and that they are better than given credit for.
Absolutely. They had zero chance for YAC since they were constantly having to reach back for the ball.
I have a feeling people are going to wonder what happened to MoMass and say it's good he is starting to take things seriously.
I think people are going to get excited to see Little take some slant routes to the house rather than run curl after curl since Dolt had a hard time hitting a moving target.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
MoMass is a joke when it comes to fighting for a ball. I don't care who's throwing it, a WR has to want the ball more than the DB. Mass has shown me none of that. Weeden better hit him in stride or it'll be more of the same.
Quote: MoMass is a joke when it comes to fighting for a ball. I don't care who's throwing it, a WR has to want the ball more than the DB. Mass has shown me none of that. Weeden better hit him in stride or it'll be more of the same.
Not to mention he offers zilch, nada in the way of YAC.
A WR can posses all of the right attributes for the position and still not cut the mustard, because they are lacking in the nuances of the position.
Quote: Wasn't it you last year that noticed our receivers were open constantly downfield last year but were never thrown to?
Along with several others, yes, that opinion was shared. That isn't to say our receivers are these all-pro's who are waiting to explode, but they are better than they've been given credit for.
It's all connected. Receivers and QB's have to have a symbiotic relationship, which isn't news to anyone. However, one of the golden rules of the NFL has always stated QB's have a far greater impact on receivers than the other way around. McCoy's widespread criticisms have reflected his inability to get the ball downfield. Defenses picked up on that, shrinking down the coverages. That tightens down the open space our receivers and TE's can work in, making it even more difficult. Having a healthy Mass back is critical, and when you combine that with the maturation of Little and the emergence of Norwood, well, as I've said, our receivers are better than they've been given credit for. For all my bashing of the failed experiments and wasted energies of Cribbs over the years, there's a receiving role for him on the roster, just as long as we don't overdo it like we did last year and beat him down to the point where he's gotta sit some to get his energies back.
We still need some help at the position, as we don't have a guy on the roster that looks like a true #1, but we're also not stuck with a bunch of #4's.
Hell, if nothing else was learned from the Derek Anderson days, having a big-armed guy opens up the entire field, even if that guy isn't very good. Weeden, for all his flaws and IMHO slim chance of becoming a great QB, will at least be able to keep defenses honest by airing it out. When the holes in the zones are opened up a bit by keeping DB's from cheating up, people will see our receivers doing some better work in the intermediate routes.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
I'm not going to back down this road. I'd buried McCoy for laying his receivers out to dry on drop-off's and check-down's. This wasn't missed by others, either. When you get your clock cleaned so often you get aligator arms, and after watching Little, Watson, and Mass get their bells rung, the FO had enough of McCoy as well. We had the same crap happen was Frye was here. That's a big problem with soft-tossers who are, in fact, not accurate or heady.
So I got my wish and McCoy is gone. I'm not going down that road again. However, we can make this interesting...I'd be willing to bet we don't have as many drops as last year, in spite of the fact we're going to have a rookie QB. If anyone cares to make an interesting, light-hearted bet, like a sig-bet, let's have some fun with this.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Well, we disagree. They may not be league beaters, but Dolt held them back a great deal. I don't think they suck and with a decent QB, I expect to see them make some solid strides.
I think the staff feels the same way. It's why we went and got a QB and why we didn't jump out of our shoes to grab a receiver....though I do think we had a couple of guys...Wright and Sanu targeted, only to have them drafted a few slots before us.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: He pretty much gives us the truth every time he opens his mouth.
On trading up to #3: "It's probably not something we're going to do. We'll get a very good player at 4"
On taking players early/reaching or trading up for need: "One thing you can't do is panic. We did that twice at (defensive tackle and pass rusher) and it didn't work out. That's when you start to make mistakes."
On what to do with draft picks after missing out on RGIII: "We're going to use those picks on starters that we can put around the QB. We're not down on Colt at all."
I believe everything that comes out of their mouths. They would never lead us wrong or lie to us.
Can we add to this list?
Holmgren asked about Mangini's firing - "Five wins isn't enough."
Apparently 5 wins was too much! Only 4 wins is acceptable!
Holmgren asked about whether he'll coach the Browns after Mangini's firing - "As of right now, I am the president of the Cleveland Browns and my job is to find the best coach available, the right coach for this job."
Apparently it wasn't. We have Pat Shurmur as the head coach.
Holmgren about the miserable 2011 season - "Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn’t good enough, and that’s been conveyed. I believe we are going to be better than that — in fact, we’re going to be a lot better than that. I expect this team to take a pretty good jump this year."
So, if the Browns don't win more than 6 games, he'll fire Pat Shurmur or he'll resign himself?
Tom Heckert about the play of Colt McCoy - "Another year in this system, we get him better players, we think he has a chance to be really good and we’ll have to see what happens during the rest of the off-season."
I guess that trying to obtain RG3, Bradford and failing those, drafting Brandon Weeden with the #22 pick in the draft is what he meant when he said "we get him better players...."
Yeah, I think I can believe everything they say.
Judging by what they say, I think that going 2-12 means that Shurmur will get a $100 million contract extension with no club opt-outs without paying the whole contract.
Does anyone know who Weeden's agent is?
Oh, just more tidbits for you all to digest.
• At 28 years, 195 days, he became the oldest player ever taken in the first round of the modern NFL draft.
• He's 48 days older than Aaron Rodgers.
• He's two years older than JaMarcus Russell.
• The man he'll battle for the starting role in Cleveland, Colt McCoy, is entering his third season in the NFL. Weedon was born three years earlier than McCoy.
• He was selected in the same MLB draft as Prince Fielder, Zack Greinke, Cole Hamels, Curtis Granderson and one of the main characters from "Moneyball."
Browns fans scared off by Weeden's age can take solace in one fact: He's not as old as Chris Weinke was when he was drafted by the Carolina Panthers in 2001. The Florida State quarterback was older than Weeden by three months, but went in the fourth round, not the first.
For those of you who complain about being 'lied to' what do you want the coaches to say?
We think McCoy sucks and we're doing our best to find someone better?!? Then what happens when they don't get anyone and are stuck with McCoy.
I appreciate that this FO didn't leave McCoy out to dry in the media and have spoken highly of him... I want that from my coaches. In terms of the not trading up and all that other crap... do people actually believe ANYTHING that the FO says in pre-draft? It's all crap... from every FO....
Well, we disagree. They may not be league beaters, but Dolt held them back a great deal. I don't think they suck and with a decent QB, I expect to see them make some solid strides.
I think they are the worst in the league. Theyre comprised of stone hands and nobodies.
Ball put in hands,, Ball hits hands, ball hits ground..
yeah,, That is all on McCoy...
Look OT,, I want the best we can get our hands on as our QB. if Weeden is the guy,, There isn't anyone on this board that will be happier.. Not one.
And if our Receivers suddenly don't drop 40 balls,, I'll be excited as hell.. and I won't give damn who throws it.
But this damned misconception that every stinking ball McCoy threw was behind someone is idiotic.. it's just not the truth..
Some were behind...there is NOT 1 QB in the league that hasn't done that. NOT ONE..
But whats the old saying,, if it hits the receivers in the hands, hes supposed to catch it.
Well,, if weeden puts it in thier hands,,, and they drop it,,, is it still McCoys fault? Or will there be a whole new set of excuses for a receiving corp that didn't receive.
Now, having said all that, the powers in Berea have spoken loadly,, They think they needed an upgrade to McCoy.. OK,, I'm fine with that. I'm going to get over my concerns that we just pinned our hopes on a 28 year old.. If we win with Weeden in there,, if the offense scores more,, Im gonna be jumping up and down watching games like everyone else.
These guys in Berea are smarter than me when it comes to football. I trust them (although I'm finding it harder and if you have paid any attention to me over the years, you kinow tht's one hell of an admission coming from me) I am the eternal optomist,, But this draft has me wondering,, what the hell were they thinking..
I hope they are right and I am wrong.. Yo have no IDEA how much I hope I"m wrong..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Last year we added Little and he was pretty damn good considering he hadn't played football in over a year.
Built-in excuse for his dropped passes.
Quote: Josh Cribbs was coming into his own as a receiver at the end of last year.
Built-in excuse for the Browns having no receivers on the team worth a damn. They were forced, by their own stupidity, to convert a KR who played QB in college into a WR. Why'd they do that, because he's the most electrifying (return plays) on the entire team. When your team's star is the kick return man, your team sucks!
Quote: I believe this group is capable of much more than we have seen.
I'm curious to know why you believe this.
Quote: Also Evan Moore and our receivers will add a lot to the passing game.
Why weren't they incorporated into the passing game last year? And remember that Evan Moore was angry about not being utilized.
Quote: Jordan Cameron might be the big surprise this season.
Maybe, but way to go out on a limb there. Qualified statement with the words 'might be'. Will they use him as a full-back at the goal-line instead of Alex Smith?
Quote: Colt faced 8 and 9 man fronts yet rarely took a shot.
You better stop whatever it is you're doing because it's making you go blind.
Quote: That should change with Weeden...
Because he's more mobile than McCoy?
Quote: ...but we will probably still be seeing 8 and 9 until he shows he can hit those targets and our receivers have to beat 1 on 1 coverage which they often did but it went unnoticed.
Our receivers beat 1-on-1 coverage often? You're making things up too. I love your 'make-believe' world. Go to Disneyland often?
I agree with you that he'll be seeing 8 or 9 in the box because Trent Richardson is his only legitimate weapon.
Quote: For those of you who complain about being 'lied to' what do you want the coaches to say?
We think McCoy sucks and we're doing our best to find someone better?!? Then what happens when they don't get anyone and are stuck with McCoy.
I appreciate that this FO didn't leave McCoy out to dry in the media and have spoken highly of him... I want that from my coaches. In terms of the not trading up and all that other crap... do people actually believe ANYTHING that the FO says in pre-draft? It's all crap... from every FO....
I agree and that's across the board, not just with Colt McCoy.
The fact that they wanted some of the bigger names WR's in FA even though they lost tells you that they would like to add another starting WR.
I believe you take those type receivers high in the Draft and with RT and QB also high on the list after we settled on a RB, that pretty much sealed the fate of the chance of doing that in this Draft.
I am glad that we didn't wast another 2nd round pick on a WR hoping to get a silk purse out of a sows ear ... That would only have served to compound the situation, because now your banking on that guy developing over a couple of years and if he doesn't ... well we are all keenly aware of what if he doesn't develop means.
I believe this group is capable of much more than we have seen.
Dispite what I've already said in discussions about QB's, I also believe this group can be better than they've shown..
Two factors come to mind..1. Another year in the system and this time, with a tutoring from coaches. 2. Experience. That one year may have been the key to really knowing what to expect.
So based on that, there could be an improvement.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Well, we disagree. They may not be league beaters, but Dolt held them back a great deal. I don't think they suck and with a decent QB, I expect to see them make some solid strides.
I think they are the worst in the league. Theyre comprised of stone hands and nobodies.
Cool. The guys who wanted a receiver are upset because the FO didn't see it that way.
We will see what happens in the fall.
By the way, I thought this was pretty cool.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: We did acquire some talent. Weeden is the big question mark. Can he go from being a guy who takes the snap out of the shotgun and pitching a strike to his wideout in stride to a guy who drops back from center, makes multiple reads, and still replicate the same success and accuracy? Can he do it without a dominant presence at WR who can turn a 7-yard slant into a 20-25 yard gain on a regular basis? We don't know. I hope so, because we've taken ourselves out of the running for the QBs coming out next year that have experience doing those sorts of things (Tennessee, Arkansas, USC, UNC, Georgia.)
I don't know whether we took ourselves out of contention for drafting a QB in next year's draft. I honestly believe, looking at our schedule, who we acquired and what other teams acquired, that we could very well lose EVERY game next year. I still think we will win a game or two, but scarcely any more than that. We'll be drafting in the Top 5 again and possibly #1 overall.
Quote: Best available FA WR's, according to Bleacher Report.com (which never fails to gag and totally lock up my laptop) are:
1. Plaxico Burress 2. Mike Sims-Walker 3. Patrick Crayton 4. Mike Williams 5. Mark Clayton
I guess they don't think Braylon Edwards is better than any of those guys, because he's a FA too. I also read that Santonio Holmes' act has worn thin in New York, and he could be had for a song. The Jets did draft Stephen Hill, so there could be something to that rumor.
You can add Greg Camarillo,Roy Williams, Bryant Johnson, Michael Clayton, and TJ Housmanzadeh to make that a "top 10" list.
If I were the Browns I would sign two of these 10 to get more solid competition in camp. Mike Sims-Walker is one of the younger guys on here so I'd take a look at him. Then TJ Housmanzadeh could be worthwhile, he's old but he has had good hands and two years ago he was a starter.
when Peyton Hillis was productive back in 2010 and the darling of the Browns fans and media,McCoy looked like he progressing. this coming from a QB who Holmgren never intended to take one snap that year. the plan was to let him sit and learn. but circumstances led McCoy under center. but in the mean time the Browns got a surprise in Hillis. He was a throw in the Broncos trade. But he looked like a bulldozer and proved to be a throwback player. But 2011 comes around and a lockout. New coach,new playbook. But same old same old lackluster lathargic WR core. No one single upgrade other than a converted RB who missed a whole year of playing. O-line is forced to start a rookie at LG and mental midget at RG and a RT who had buyer beware written all over him. now you throw in your lead FB let go cause apparently to them,they are not worth paying for. Your 3rd down specialist,done for the year and Hillis lands on the IR. It was impossible to McCoy to overcome all that. It would be impossible for alot of QB's to overcome that. now you throw in a ultra conservative playbook that lacked plays to threaten a defense at all levels downfield. teams didn't have to cram 8 in the box to stop the Browns running game. defenses didn't have to get exotic to beat the Browns. rush 4, drop 7. maybe throw in a "joker" once in awhile on passing downs, for example in the Browns 2nd meeting vs the Bengals...I saw McCoy get blasted by Geno Atkins on a 4 man rush in the 2nd half. McCoy had no time really set up and read the field. He got cut in half only to have it picked by Reggie Nelson. teams easily defensed the Browns McCoy was taking what the defense was giving him...all stuff underneath. Defense knew the Browns WR's were not the types to take 5 yard slants and evade pursuit and get a extra 8 yards etc. it took 14 games before I saw a Browns WR actually break off his route and come back to the football and make something out of it. you still have to be able to run the ball in the NFL in order to be able to pass on 1st down. The Browns could never throw on 1st down in 2011. so they resorted to running...well they couldn't run the ball either. if a defense gets you in 3rd and 5 or longer..advantage defense.
Jax had a better record (5-11 compared with the Browns 4-12) last year... with Gabbert than we did with our league-leading (in dropped passes) WR corps.
And Jax is going through a HC change too. Del Rio was fired last year, replaced by an interim HC (Tucker, the current DC). Now they're lead by Mike Mularkey.
Del Rio was fired after 11 games (3-8) then replaced. The Jaguars went 2-3 in the final 5 games with Gabbert as their QB. How did the Browns finish the seasons final 5 games? 0-5, including 0-3 with Seneca Wallace (not McCoy) leading them.
Now, if Jax improves more than the Browns, what will you say? Also, what are the metrics for determining how well the teams improve or regress? Record (W-L)? Offensive points scored? Just want to make sure I've got the proper metric(s) to look for.
Quote: Despite what I've already said in discussions about QB's, I also believe this group can be better than they've shown..
Two factors come to mind..1. Another year in the system and this time, with a tutoring from coaches. 2. Experience. That one year may have been the key to really knowing what to expect.
So based on that, there could be an improvement.
Huh? So the coaches haven't been tutoring their WR (or QBs) in the system? And from that one season with the WCO, they can make adjustments to it that will improve it? So, you're saying that they found out that the plays that they designed sucked ass and that they don't work?
You did you notice that Weeden was throwing to a spot, right? He's good at hitting that spot. But, he was NOT throwing at a pigeon. Not even close.
He was flat out throwing to a spot. And he was good at hitting that spot with no defense.
Shoot - I've shot pigeons coming off basically the same thrower. If you don't change the trajectory up or down, or change the direction...........I could shoot the clays with my eyes closed.
Same goes for throwing the football. All he had to do was aim at a spot. As long as he could hit that spot.........shoot, he's got a 6" to 8" "bullet" to hit the clay.
I will bet my house that, if the thrower was changing the angle or trajectory, Weeden would've been 0 for however many they threw.
Quote: We have capable WR's.. I think what some of you are asking for is a WR that intimidates the defense to get them to adjust accordingly.
As of right now, I think if defenses stack the box with 8 guys leaving man on man coverage.. Weeden will light those guys up.
Or you're conclude, as most everyone else has already concluded, that our WR corps blows and that we'll be drafting a WR in the first round next year but that we've drafted Chris Weinke's clone and need a QB really bad. It's going to be a harsh choice next year. Another shiny new QB or a WR with actual talent at the position.
Well, we disagree. They may not be league beaters, but Dolt held them back a great deal. I don't think they suck and with a decent QB, I expect to see them make some solid strides.
I think they are the worst in the league. Theyre comprised of stone hands and nobodies.
You would be correct.
You can catch, or you can't. Catching is NOT coachable. You can, or you can't. You will, or you won't. Doesn't matter who's throwing to you. Doesn't matter at all where the ball is. If you can get your hands on it - you catch it. Period.
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