Quote: Wasn't it you last year that noticed our receivers were open constantly downfield last year but were never thrown to?
That's so laughable it's pathetic.
Our receivers were "constantly open downfield?" Please.
But, as you wish. If they were "constantly open downfield", then I would expect, this year, with a first round qb.........I will expect to see 10 to 30 yd. passes constantly. Constantly, as in every other pass play.
But, you didn't know that Brandon Weeden, other than being Holmgren's job-saver, is also adept at sewing. He'll be able to 'thread a needle' just as well as Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger and Tom Brady. Weeden is a sure fire HOFer. And don't be worried about his age, Roger Staubach was 28 when he started his NFL career. I'm sure Weeden took his military bligation seriously like Staubach did.
Quote: MoMass is a joke when it comes to fighting for a ball. I don't care who's throwing it, a WR has to want the ball more than the DB. Mass has shown me none of that. Weeden better hit him in stride or it'll be more of the same.
Not to mention he offers zilch, nada in the way of YAC.
A WR can posses all of the right attributes for the position and still not cut the mustard, because they are lacking in the nuances of the position.
When was the last time you saw Massaquoi help his QB and come back for a football thrown to him?
I know, I know. It's a trick question. He NEVER has come back for a football to help his QB out. That's what good receivers do.
Quote: MoMass is a joke when it comes to fighting for a ball. I don't care who's throwing it, a WR has to want the ball more than the DB. Mass has shown me none of that. Weeden better hit him in stride or it'll be more of the same.
Not to mention he offers zilch, nada in the way of YAC.
A WR can posses all of the right attributes for the position and still not cut the mustard, because they are lacking in the nuances of the position.
When was the last time you saw Massaquoi help his QB and come back for a football thrown to him?
I know, I know. It's a trick question. He NEVER has come back for a football to help his QB out. That's what good receivers do.
Quote: For those of you who complain about being 'lied to' what do you want the coaches to say?
I want them to say nothing. If they're asked a question that they don't want to answer just say "I'm not talking about that." Let the media complain all they want.
Quote: We think McCoy sucks and we're doing our best to find someone better?!? Then what happens when they don't get anyone and are stuck with McCoy.
See above. If they think that McCoy sucks, just say nothing to the media. Don't say something that you either know to be lie or say something that doesn't fit with your actions.
How about you take a look at the reaction to the Browns selection of Brandon Weeden?
Quote: MoMass is a joke when it comes to fighting for a ball. I don't care who's throwing it, a WR has to want the ball more than the DB. Mass has shown me none of that. Weeden better hit him in stride or it'll be more of the same.
Not to mention he offers zilch, nada in the way of YAC.
A WR can posses all of the right attributes for the position and still not cut the mustard, because they are lacking in the nuances of the position.
When was the last time you saw Massaquoi help his QB and come back for a football thrown to him?
I know, I know. It's a trick question. He NEVER has come back for a football to help his QB out. That's what good receivers do.
last time we had a QB with an arm.. Mo looked like this:
Quote: MoMass is a joke when it comes to fighting for a ball. I don't care who's throwing it, a WR has to want the ball more than the DB. Mass has shown me none of that. Weeden better hit him in stride or it'll be more of the same.
Not to mention he offers zilch, nada in the way of YAC.
A WR can posses all of the right attributes for the position and still not cut the mustard, because they are lacking in the nuances of the position.
When was the last time you saw Massaquoi help his QB and come back for a football thrown to him?
I know, I know. It's a trick question. He NEVER has come back for a football to help his QB out. That's what good receivers do.
That's a complaint I have with him too. He will run his route, but if the play breaks down and get's extended he never seems to try and give the QB a target or come back to the ball.
There is a reason why Cribbs saw more time the Moe at the end of the season. He was simply more productive and is an asset, not a liability in the running game.
Quote: You've gotten bitter lately. The woman leave ya? Ol'Rover up and died? Oh,now I understand,Colt got replaced.
No, but on draft night after Weeden got selected she reiterated that she needs me to have a life insurance policy. She thought I might pop a blood vessel with how angry I was and the expletives that were coming out of my mouth after I recovered and was able to pick it off the floor.
It's not about McCoy, it's about improving the Browns. Other than Richardson, who is 1000% better than anything we've had since the return in 1999, we haven't improved the weapons on offense at all.
But somehow, many here think our WR corps are just fine. Apparently the front office and HC agree with them.
Ironically, we seem to be the minority on this particular message board, but in step with the rest of the NFL and the fans that don't visit this message board.
There wasn't a pass in the video that shouldn't have been caught. I'm talking about making plays on balls that aren't perfectly thrown. Finding a highlight reel of go routes is one thing. Not every ball is thrown to a wide open spot. As much as some here think that Weeden is suddenly going to be throwing every pass on the numbers. Mass has no hustle on poorly thrown balls. It isn't going to change with a different QB. Watch AJ Green, or Megatron, or Harrison, Driver, Fitz... When the ball is in the air they own it. Whether its well thrown or not. Mass falls asleep on poorly thrown passes. Elite, even very good, receivers don't.
Quote: MoMass is a joke when it comes to fighting for a ball. I don't care who's throwing it, a WR has to want the ball more than the DB. Mass has shown me none of that. Weeden better hit him in stride or it'll be more of the same.
Not to mention he offers zilch, nada in the way of YAC.
A WR can posses all of the right attributes for the position and still not cut the mustard, because they are lacking in the nuances of the position.
When was the last time you saw Massaquoi help his QB and come back for a football thrown to him?
I know, I know. It's a trick question. He NEVER has come back for a football to help his QB out. That's what good receivers do.
last time we had a QB with an arm.. Mo looked like this:
A highlight reel? Really! LOL Completely different team. What's that QB doing these days? Didn't he move to the desert and find it too hot and then move to Carolina or something to be a back-up? If he is as good as you think he is, why was he cut?
Quote: No, but on draft night after Weeden got selected she reiterated that she needs me to have a life insurance policy. She thought I might pop a blood vessel with how angry I was and the expletives that were coming out of my mouth after I recovered and was able to pick it off the floor.
Sounds... healthy.
Our wideouts are a below average group, but I think we've reasonably improved units in bulk since H/H came to town. First we set defensive roots that would translate into either scheme at the time in our secondary, then addressed the trenches on defense adjusting to a new scheme (though we just still need our RDE as Rucker and Parker/Benard/Wynn stopgap and push for time/depth, and in this draft upgraded our running game (first THREE picks relate to that, too) and threw our hats into the ring for a potential franchise QB who-even if he fails- is impacting our running game by at least stretching the field and keeping defenses honest so T-Rich doesn't always see eight in the box.
I understand the move. They had to improve the offensive unit to stay in and win more games. The running game just ended up being the first real talent installation because of the scarcity at QB and how the draft's best prospects presented itself. Some of the expectations for adding talent throughout the roster and fixing needs are just laughably unrealistic. You can't go into a draft and legitimately upgrade to all plus starters at RT, QB, WR, DE, RB, LB, CB, FS, and G in one draft. You have to follow reasonable value guidelines at different spots in the draft to get those needs, too.
Next year I just see us really hitting that RDE and WR. Our roster's getting much closer up to snuff. I just hope this fan base and be rational about Heckert's drafts and give these guys time to give us a legit rebuilt a la Detroit's. The accumulation of talent to get a roster up to average from dog . doesn't happen overnight. Miami and Atlanta's big flashes in the pan look like they sparked too many "instant turnaround" demands....
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
I could care less what DA is doing now.. the point is he made throws down the field, and quite often MoMass was the recipient of those passes.
Lets wait these long summer months and see what Weeden can do with the WR's we have is all I'm suggesting. I just wish we would stop bashing the guys we have on our team. The draft is over.. It's done. We barely addressed the position, so we have to work with what we have.
Somebody wondered earlier what happened to Massaquoi. James Harrison happened to Massaquoi. He's had the yips ever since the shot Harrison put on him in 2010. We need a bounty on that SOB.
Quote: You completely missed his point. He was implying Momass would be better playing with a QB with a strong arm
The truth has got to be somewhere in the middle, right?
It's not far fetched to believe the WRs will get better with better QB play. It's borderline common sense.
It's also not far fetched to trust what you see with your own eyes and know that despite the QB play the WRs don't have much of a ceiling, including Little.
My prediction is next year we will draft WR #1.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Quote: Despite what I've already said in discussions about QB's, I also believe this group can be better than they've shown..
Two factors come to mind..1. Another year in the system and this time, with a tutoring from coaches. 2. Experience. That one year may have been the key to really knowing what to expect.
So based on that, there could be an improvement.
Huh? So the coaches haven't been tutoring their WR (or QBs) in the system? And from that one season with the WCO, they can make adjustments to it that will improve it? So, you're saying that they found out that the plays that they designed sucked ass and that they don't work?
So busy trying to make fun of someone, apparently you forgot there was NO OFF SEASON last year.. that's what I was referring too....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: You completely missed his point. He was implying Momass would be better playing with a QB with a strong arm
And that Massaquoi can get open when the damned QB actually throws the ball down the field. (which is the opposite of what many people have said, instead claiming that he cannot get open) The amazing thing is people saying "Yeah, but he was so open that he didn't have to adjust to the ball ............."
So he went from being so open that he didn't have to adjust to the ball, to not being able to get open? I just don't see how that could be possible.
Obviously the front office broke down tape of last year .... evaluated the various positions ....... looked at throws made by the QBs ..... routes run by the WRs ......and every other aspect of the game.
Doing this, they decided that their overriding priorities were RB, QB, and RT.
It's hard to argue with that.
Our TE production went downhill last year. Our passing game production went downhill last year. Our scoring went downhill last year. The coaches and front office looked at the tape, and decided that there were 3 main areas that needed improvement, and that QB was a far more desperate need than receiver.
Plus, Massaquoi had a concussion and played with an ankle injury last year. It really seemed like you weren't a Browns receiver until you got a concussion. Receivers were thrown into coverage so often ... yeah, that probably has an impact. (about the same degree of impact as the defender trying to take the receiver's head off)
I love how now the front office is somehow "Mini-Me" ...... because they looked at the tape and disagreed with a certain poster's opinion on the whole QB/receiver situation.
Again though, I never said that our receivers were perfect. They aren't. They are a bunch of 2s. However, a team can win with 2s at the WR position. It is considerably easier when you have a 1 ... but sometimes you just have to develop a 1. The Steelers do it frequently. They sign 3rd and 4th and 6th round receivers, and these guys outproduce the 1st rounders they used to take. Why? Because QBs make receivers. Receivers don't make QBs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Despite what I've already said in discussions about QB's, I also believe this group can be better than they've shown..
Two factors come to mind..1. Another year in the system and this time, with a tutoring from coaches. 2. Experience. That one year may have been the key to really knowing what to expect.
So based on that, there could be an improvement.
Huh? So the coaches haven't been tutoring their WR (or QBs) in the system? And from that one season with the WCO, they can make adjustments to it that will improve it? So, you're saying that they found out that the plays that they designed sucked ass and that they don't work?
So busy trying to make fun of someone, apparently you forgot there was NO OFF SEASON last year.. that's what I was referring too....
So, there is no "during the season" tutoring by the coaches?
Truth is, I think that the play-calling sucked and I dare say that the plays, as designed, sucked. If there is any improvement over last year, it's because Childress was brought in to design plays and help with the game planning. Shurmur was so far over his head as an OC, it wasn't even funny. I'm not even talking about his HC duties, I'm just talking about his OC duties. He shouldn't have been hired as the OC, much less the HC.
I admittedly (and erroneously) thought that all these guys were on the same page with executing the WCO. I didn't know it was the comics page.
Quote: I could care less what DA is doing now.. the point is he made throws down the field, and quite often MoMass was the recipient of those passes.
You held him up there as a QB with an arm. Okay, he could throw it down field when receivers are left wide open. He single-handedly cost us a playoff berth with a 4 INT performance in the last game of the season.
Truth is, he sucked as a QB. The season we went 10-6, our schedule was among the weakest in the league. With the talent (outside of the QB position), we should have won 10 games with little effort.
Quote: Lets wait these long summer months and see what Weeden can do with the WR's we have is all I'm suggesting.
And the RB and RT we drafted? I'm not sure that even those players will improve the team. We're going to be worse off than we were last season. It won't be lack of effort by the players. It's going to due to lack of talent at QB and WR.
Quote: I just wish we would stop bashing the guys we have on our team. The draft is over.. It's done. We barely addressed the position, so we have to work with what we have.
Stop bashing the players on the team? I'm lambasting the front office for screwing the pooch again and doing a horrible job with the draft. They only had two good picks, IMO, with Richardson and Winn. All the others were either poor or average. Richardson was a no-brainer selection though. But Blackmon, Kalil, or Claiborne could have been called a no-brainer at #4 too! I know, we traded up one spot to get Richardson. And before you say that we gave up nothing really to move up, how far could we have moved up from the 4th packaged with the 5th and 7th rounders that we gave up? Could we have gotten up into the middle of the third? Maybe just the lower end of the third round? So, in essence, to move up from #4 to #3, we gave up a third round pick.
Let's look at who was taken from picks 17-32 of the 3rd round and the top of the 4th round, where our next selection was.
CB - Jamell Fleming (Cardinals) DE - Tyrone Crawford (Cowboys) DT - Mike Martin (Titans) WR - Mohamed Sanu (Bengals) RB - Bernard Pierce (Ravens) CB - Dwight Bentley (Lions) LB - Sean Spence (Steelers) QB - Nick Foles (Eagles) DE - Akiem Hicks (Saints) DE - Jake Bequette (Patriots) OT - Lamar Holmes (Falcons) WR - T.Y. Hilton (Colts) DT - Brandon Thompson (Bengals) CB - Jayron Hosley (Giants) OT - Tony Bergstrom (Raiders)
WR - Chris Givens (Rams) RB - Lamar Miller (Dolphins) C - Ben Jones (Texans)
* - Note, I excluded our own awful selection of John Hughes.
So, we could have potentially had the following well-regarded prospects.
DBs - Jamell Fleming, Jayron Hosley DLs - Tyrone Crawford, Mike Martin, Brandon Thompson WRs - Mohamed Sanu, T.Y. Hilton, Chris Givens RBs - Lamar Miller OLs - Ben Jones QBs - Nick Foles
Quote: You completely missed his point. He was implying Momass would be better playing with a QB with a strong arm
And you miss the point. McCoy would be a better QB with receivers that can actually catch the ball and with an OL that's not a sieve and with Trent Richardson in the backfield.
Of course, Weeden will have two of those, a RT that isn't a sieve (or at least we hope) and Richardson in the backfield. He still won't have receivers that are worth a damn.
Quote: And you miss the point. McCoy would be a better QB with receivers that can actually catch the ball and with an OL that's not a sieve and with Trent Richardson in the backfield.
Look around the NFL. Offenses around the league move the ball week in and week out with mediocre WRs . While this may be a passing league, receivers do not make the offense. An elite receiver might put an avg offense over the top. (Moss with Pats/TO with Eagles) But that same WR will never make a subpar, unreliable passing game into something it is not. Colt regressed badly last year. And even in the handful of games where things would start to look up, bam bam he would lead our receivers into a big hit to end the momentum. Until you have a reliable steady offense an elite WR is a waste.
Okay now put the film on Moe in a different offense like last year in the WCO. I Think that he was more suited to Daboll's vertical offense with less short routes in traffic.
Quote: Okay now put the film on Moe in a different offense like last year in the WCO. I Think that he was more suited to Daboll's vertical offense with less short routes in traffic.
In regards to Mo's short route running, or lack there of.. I agree w/ most. He doesn't push it 100% and come back to the QB. Thing is, if the ball didn't come to him so slow, the less that would matter.Dude runs a 10 yard out and has to come back 5 more yards just to catch it.. lol. #justsayin
at the end of the day.. everyone needs to get better..
when Colt McCoy was drafted by the Browns,he walked into a dysfunctional environment. The culture was defined by a lack of continunity and the constant losing since 1999. When Colt took over as QB,he had garbage to work with other than Hillis. Robiskie,Massaqiou, Chansi Suckey(who dropped a key pass vs the Jets) Robert Royal..are you kidding me? meanwhile in that 2010 Draft....this front office that is populated by so called compatence, drafted T.J Ward and passed on legit offensive talent like Rob Gronkowski,and Aaron Hernandez,Demariyus Thomas,Dez Bryant and Ben Tate. Mike Holmgren said in the preseason,"the plan is not to let him take one snap this season" they addressed him as if he was a franchise QB. Then last year, they pass on more WR/TE's with game changing skill sets. So now its safe to assume Colt McCoy is written out of the Browns plans. with that said,since Brandon Weeden is now the starter and the future,judging on Holmgren's track record with QB's since he came aboard,how much faith can you put in the Whale from Seattle? 2 years later,he's moving on to a yet another starting QB. what if Weeden goes 1-11 in the North which is possible... do you kick him to Greyhound Station? its safe to say that Weeden is coming into a situation much more favorable than McCoy.
Against off man coverage, Colt got Little Jacked up on a 7 yard out, which is nearly impossible to do. Colt was horrible, we know it the, front office knows it and that is why they have replaced him. The receivers were so bad that we went out and spent a 4th round pick on a slot guy. Colt was so bad we offered 3 first round picks for his replacement.
People can moan and cry over the horrible team surrounding Colt all they want but he made everyone around him worse. Just look at his receiving options, every damn one of them got their bell rung because he was getting them killed.
Watson, Jordan, Moore, Mo, Little, Norwood were all laid out thanks to his inability to put the ball out in front of the receiver. Our receivers never had a chance, they would reach back for the ball and bam.
Colt is a great kid and one day he may be successful but right now he is a horrible QB.
I wish I could be so succinct, but I like to 'talk'.
Ok I'll mention Greg Little. He was out of football. He was a converted RB at UNC. There was no offseason training camps. He didn't know a lick of our offense.
And it was obvious from Day 1 that he was the only thing we had at the positiion.
If you want to PROJECT WHAT HE COULD BE IN THE FUTURE then we have one wide receiver.
He could be nothing. But I would work with him because he did well comparitively with the rest of our botards and the fact that he was coming in about as cold as possible.
----------------------
One thing I will add is that we have so many holes on our team you can't fix everything in one off season. I thought with the bounty of picks this year we may have been able to fix it in two offseasons.
Nope!
We give up 4 picks to select Richardson.
We take 80s movies directors in the 80s.
It's going to take three offseasons now.
-------------------------
Lastly did you notice that they reached for a QB.
Took no injury flyers.
Traded no picks for 2013 picks.
Does anyone else see either hit or Hindenburg here????
If Weedon fails and if the rest of this draft class doesn't come through....welllllll......
We are currently the odds on favorite to pick #1 in 2013.
Quote: We are currently the odds on favorite to pick #1 in 2013.
Only in your mind, this team wasn't even the worst last year. How many games did we lose by a play or two?
GMAFB........you and anarchy ought to just find another team, you both seem to hate everything this FO does. It is funny, because most think they are moving in the right direction.
I would bet on the above statement, but you are not worth the time.
Quote: Look around the NFL. Offenses around the league move the ball week in and week out with mediocre WRs.
What WRs do we have that even reach the level of mediocre? Jordan Norwood. That's about it.
Quote: While this may be a passing league, receivers do not make the offense.
They do if you're trying to pass the ball and they drop the passes.
Quote: Colt regressed badly last year. And even in the handful of games where things would start to look up, bam bam he would lead our receivers into a big hit to end the momentum.
So, you're saying the receiver would drop the ball and kill a drive?
Quote: Until you have a reliable steady offense an elite WR is a waste.
An elite WR? Just give me a primary target that is just competent.
I really hope that you don't have a stoke if Weeden comes in and throws for like 4000 yards this year to our "crappy" receivers.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
So, what you're saying is that our receivers still suck. Little was a reach in the second round. Could we have been better off drafting someone else with that selection? Hell yeah!
I don't want to burst anyone's bubbles, but you don't take a WR who was converted from RB and had been out of football for a year in the second round when players who are natural WRs are undrafted.
Greg Little stands a great chance of being a 1000 yard receiver this coming year. He had 700+ yards with an ineffective Colt McCoy throwing the ball. I think that he will be far better this coming year.
Little put up 700 yards as a rookie. What would he have had to do to be a good pick in your eyes?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I really hope that you don't have a stoke if Weeden comes in and throws for like 4000 yards this year to our "crappy" receivers.
I hope you don't have a stroke if Weeden stinks up the joint and we start 0-6 and McCoy is thrust into the lineup to provide a spark.
Or... if Weeden gets injured and McCoy takes over. When was the last time the Browns had a starting QB finish the season uninjured?
And it's good that you realize that our receivers are 'crappy'. It's a step in the right direction. Hopefully, you'll finally come to realize that the WR corps of the Browns completely suck before the end of the year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Greg Little stands a great chance of being a 1000 yard receiver this coming year. He had 700+ yards with an ineffective Colt McCoy throwing the ball. I think that he will be far better this coming year.
Little put up 700 yards as a rookie. What would he have had to do to be a good pick in your eyes?
Greg Little has a great chance of being a 1000 yard receiver? What do you base this statement on? Just more bloviating without anything to back it up again? Just because you hope that it happens, doesn't mean that it will. Besides, it could be McCoy throwing the ball to him again. Maybe it'll be Thaddeus Lewis.
Weeden is a sure fire HOFer. And don't be worried about his age, Roger Staubach was 28 when he started his NFL career. I'm sure Weeden took his military bligation seriously like Staubach did.![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/PortlandDawg/banner.jpg)
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