DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Weeden think he'll be ready to start right away

Wallace also played one of his 3 games in a hurricane, so that has to be a consideration.

Regardless, either Wallace or McCoy (or, less likely, both) will be gone next year. Weeden will be our starter. I suspect that he will get better as the year goes on, and he learns the offense. I never really got the feeling that our offense improved last year as the year went on.

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Actually ..... that's not true.

Little had 5 catches in that game for 131 yards. That play was 76 yards. That means that he also had 4 catches for 55 yards.

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Which is what I said.. he was one busted play away from having a very ordinary game... thanks for helping me prove that.

He had 6 games of 5 catches or more and 5 games of 50 yards or more (2 over 70 yards) with Colt as the QB... 1 improvised busted scramble is the basis for your argument that Wallace is why he had his best game of the year that day...

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I knew that someone would say that ...... but how could it matter if the receivers can't get open? If they can't get open with a solid TE in the game, then they aren't magically going to be able to do so with fewer weapons in the game.

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They were getting open for the exact same 10.3 yards per completion plays that Colt was finding.. no better and no worse. Wallace just wasn't spreading the ball around as much.

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Again ..... if a receiver supposedly sucks .... the it makes no difference what the rest of the team is, or is not. If a receiver can't get open, People say that our receivers can't get open ...... yet they each did in these 2 games, against solid to good defenses. These defenses may have single covered the receivers ..... but that was already happening all year long once teams realized that this was the way to stop the Browns offense with McCoy under Center.

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Let me break this down for you and I'll use McCoy against Pittsburgh, which he played part of the game with a concussion and Wallace against Pittsburgh.. same defense... You claim the WRs were able to get open because Cribbs had a good game...

Against Pittsburgh, Colt completed 9 passes to WRs for 128 yards... 3 to MoMass for 44, 2 to Cribbs for 38, 2 to Little for 25 and 2 to Norwood for 21.

Against Pittsburgh, Wallace completed 10 passes to WRs for 126 yards... 7 to Cribbs for 91, 2 to MoMass for 16 and 1 to Mitchell for 19

That's one more catch but 2 fewer yards... one would probably argue that Wallace had no more or less ability to find WRs, he just found the same one over and over again.. maybe he doesn't see the whole field well enough to spread it around, I don't know.

In the same game, Colt had 8 completions to his TEs for 85 yards.... 2 to Watson for 11, 2 to Smith for 19 and 4 to Moore for 55

In the same game, Wallace had 5 completions to his TEs for 54 yards... 1 to Cameron for 15 and 4 to Moore for 39...

Wallace had 3 fewer completions for 31 fewer yards...

And lastly, Colt had 2 completions to his RBs, 2 to Hardesty for 9 yards..

Wallace had 1 completion to a RB, 1 to Hillis for -3 yards..

So let me break this down for you.. Colt had more receiving yards to WRs, he had more receiving yards to TEs, and he had more receiving yards to RBs... The fact that Colt had 8 guys with 2 or more catches and Wallace only had 3 shouldn't be held against Colt..

All of this brings me back to the point I made several posts ago.. you are seeing what you want to see.

Edit: I'm not fighting this to prove that Colt played well, obviously he did not.. I'm fighting this too prove that Wallace had no better success with our WRs than Colt did.

Just curious, do those stats for Moore v pit include the strike Wallace came off the bench to throw which was the best throw of the game for either team?

Even without that big play, Little's performance against Arizona was still enough to be his 6th best game of the year.

You can't just say "take away this big play, or that big play", because big plays are what separate the great from the also-rans.

People say that our receivers can't get open, yet somehow, even without the TE drawing attention to the middle of the field .... even without the backup TE drawing attention to the middle of the field ..... somehow without our best slot guy drawing attention to the middle of the field ..... well, somehow 4 of our WRs were able to have their best games in the final 3 weeks of the season ...... even though we played good defenses.

Pittsburgh was the #1 defense against the pass, and we played them in a hurricane. Baltimore was #3. Arizona was 17th against the pass.Somehow 2 of our "horrible" starting receivers were able to have their best games of the season during this 3 game stretch, despite missing several weapons.

The bottom line is that both Cribbs and Little each had 1 great game last year ...... and it wasn't with Colt McCoy under Center. People say that our receivers "suck", but if they do, then why did they each have a great game at the end of the season with a different QB? Hell, we ran the ball more in those games too. So what. Maybe that took away from their opportunities ........

There are just so many ways to spin things ......

As far as McCoy, he had so many yards in lost causes that it really makes it hard to say what games he had impactful plays to receivers, and which games were horrible until a drive against a "burn time off the clock" defense.

I really don't remember seeing him drop a single pass in those final 3 games.

I know that Norwood had a couple, but that is all I remember from those games.

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Even without that big play, Little's performance against Arizona was still enough to be his 6th best game of the year.

You can't just say "take away this big play, or that big play", because big plays are what separate the great from the also-rans.

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The conversation has evolved, when I made that comment I was specifically arguing the point you were trying to make that Wallace was somehow throwing our WRs open and exploiting single coverage... and the play which caused the great stats you were quoting was a busted scramble play which had nothing to do with that... then we moved to a far more general conversation..

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People say that our receivers can't get open, yet somehow, even without the TE drawing attention to the middle of the field .... even without the backup TE drawing attention to the middle of the field ..... somehow without our best slot guy drawing attention to the middle of the field .....

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Watson missed all 3 games, Moore only missed the Arizona game.. who are you talking about? And Ben Watson is a nice veteran player but you talk about him like he's Vernon Davis drawing a ton of attention and altering a defenses game plan.. the guy averaged about 3 catches a game for 30 yards... I'm sure in his absence somebody else was running his routes and the Steelers were covering the guy, probably with about the same amount of attention they would have paid to Ben Watson...

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well, somehow 4 of our WRs were able to have their best games in the final 3 weeks of the season ...... even though we played good defenses.

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The only way you can get close to 4 is if you count Mitchells 1 catch for 19 yards as his "best game".. The guy very seldom saw the field.. who are the other 3? It's not MoMass, it's not Norwood.... who am I missing?

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The bottom line is that both Cribbs and Little each had 1 great game last year ...... and it wasn't with Colt McCoy under Center.

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And the other bottom line is that in every game where a receiver had really good numbers with Wallace, other players numbers were down as a result. He did nothing to lift the entire offense over where it had been.

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People say that our receivers "suck", but if they do, then why did they each have a great game at the end of the season with a different QB?

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I've been through that and I, for the record, am not one that says our WRs suck... Little had one busted play that took an average game and made it a "great game" and Cribbs had a 91 yard game but in that game MoMass only had 16 yards and Little had 0... I'm sure if Colt wanted to throw it at the same WR 15 times a game that player could have had bigger numbers.

Actually, my original comment was that Little and Cribbs each had their best game last year with Wallace at QB. That is a true statement.

I don't want Wallace at QB, but I don't think that McCoy could have, in any way, shape, or form, made the throw to Little that Wallace made. That throw led Little perfectly, despite Wallace being under heavy pressure.

Smith was our backup TE last year, and he was hurt in the Arizona game.

As far as the "4" ...... typo. Substitute "2" for "4".

Seriously - just stop with your Colt bashing. Please? You're looking bad.

News flash: Colt will not be the starter this year. (barring injury, or God forbid, Weeden can't beat him out, and I highly doubt that scenario will unfold for multiple reasons)

But honestly............just quit. PDR showed you that Little had drops in the last 3 games, according to espn AND to the nfl. But you "don't remember them". So, since you don't remember them, they didn't happen and espn AND the nfl are wrong?

Oh, by the way, you're setting the bar for Weeden awfully high. You'll probably be eating crow OR saying "that's not what I said" come next season, and that's with a #3 pick running back AND what we hope is an improved O line.

I honestly, from your posts alone, expect a minimum of 300 yds passing and 2 td passes per game from Weeden. After all, he will "lead" the receivers into open spots where they can get yac, right?

You set the bar for Weeden. I'm glad I'm not Weeden. Some of us have realistic expectations. Your expectations are beyond belief. And I'll be here saying you were right, or I'll be here saying the guy played like a rookie, or I'll be here saying he sucked, whatever the case may be.

You, on the other hand, have said how much better we'll be with him.

I love how you complain YTown always puts words in your mouth...

And then you put words in his mouth any chance you get...

history shows that Colt throwing to Wide Open people down the field leads to Lobs that make the WR stop and wait for the ball allowing the defense to catch them...

Ask Cribbs.

Yeah Yeah Yeah.. Bottom line, it's way better if you got a Payton manning,, But if you have a QB that's a bit above average and a whole bunch of solid guys aroiund him,, you are going to win games..

If rookie camp means anything (and I"m not sure it does) then maybe we have a guy in Weeden who would be at least above average.. and I'm good as gold with that.

The think you and perhaps some others missed in all these debates is that, nobody I know said that Colt was the answer. I didn't hear anyone say it.

What most of us were saying is, with what he had around him, I'm not sure a Payton Manning could have done a whole lot more. Better than McCoy,, I'd certainly hope so.. But tremendously better,, ahhh.. That's a hard one to believe.

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but I don't think that McCoy could have, in any way, shape, or form, made the throw to Little that Wallace made. That throw led Little perfectly, despite Wallace being under heavy pressure.

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Now I know you are just being stupid.

Well, there is one at about the 1:25 mark of this video..



Then there is one at about the 3:05 mark of this one..


Both are similar, probably more difficult because of more defenders in the area, tighter windows..

Both are somewhat similar, but neither was the QB hitting a receiver in stride, with the ability to run after the catch. The TD was a really good play, as was the other throw you listed.

4-12 and 8-8 aren't in the same zip code. And "almost" only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades ....

The minute we started sniffing any success at all in a game, the opposition just tried harder and opened the playbook up more.

We have some nice young pieces on this team but they've got to learn to win like everyone does. Better QB play would have meant more competitive games, not blowouts ... IMO. Unless Manning himself was QB, and even if Manning himself was QB, I still don't believe last year's team makes the playoffs.

To be fair, neither throw covered the distance the Wallace throw did either.

However, it wasn't a difficult throw. There's no reason to believe any QB in the league that has a decent set of wheels couldn't have made that throw.

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Both are somewhat similar, but neither was the QB hitting a receiver in stride, with the ability to run after the catch.

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RAC or not, they were both perfectly placed given the situation, while on the run, and isn't that what we are really talking about?

Browns coach Pat Shurmur: Brandon Weeden 'headed in the right direction' toward becoming starting QB
By Nate Ulrich Published: May 14, 2012

Browns coach Pat Shurmur spoke this afternoon in front of the Pro Football Hall of Fame Luncheon Club in Canton. Here are some highlights:

Looking like a starting quarterback

Before rookie minicamp this past weekend, Shurmur said rookie Brandon Weeden must earn the starting quarterback job. But as Shurmur reflected on the recent minicamp while speaking to reporters following his speaking engagement, he said Weeden is making a strong case for himself in his pursuit of the starting job.

“There’s no question I think he’s headed in the right direction,” Shurmur said. “He showed us in the first minicamp that he can throw the ball in this league, and now we’ll get a chance to see him interact with the team, the full squad, and see how he does.”

Shurmur stopped short of revealing whether Weeden would take snaps with the first-team offense May 22 when organized team activities begin. But it certainly seems like a safe bet that Weeden will.

“I’ll hold onto that till we talk about that [as a team and as a coaching staff],” Shurmur said. “But he’s gonna be able to compete with those guys to be the starter. So how we choose to do that really is a method, and we’ll just see how it works.”

Shurmur was much more direct in his praise of Weeden’s performance during rookie minicamp.

“I think he’s extremely accurate,” he said. “His strong arm really showed up in this minicamp. There’s something natural about his play. He hadn’t really thrown to these receivers before and to be able to throw somewhat precise routes and be very accurate, that was good to see.

“He throws a very, very -- wow -- it’s a pretty ball. It’s easy for the receivers to catch, and some of the guys he was working with for the first time really performed extremely well because there’s synergy there when you get good quarterback play.”

Quarterback situation

A member of the audience asked Shurmur to compare Colt McCoy and Weeden.

“Colt McCoy is a gritty guy,” Shurmur said. “I think Colt McCoy is a fine football player and can play quarterback in this league. We think Brandon Weeden can do the same thing. Obviously one guy’s a little bit taller than the other. … They’re both guys that I want on this team and I want to see them compete. The best one will play when we play Philadelphia in September.”

So what will happen to Seneca Wallace?

“I think there’s a case to be made that Seneca, Colt and Brandon are all [on the roster] together,” Shurmur said. “We’ll see. I think that’s yet to be determined. But we’re gonna just watch them all compete and interact, and we’ll see what happens.”

Reliable running back

Shurmur touted running back Trent Richardson, the third overall pick in this year’s draft, as a key piece to the team’s future.

“Trent Richardson is 5-9 ½, but he is a full-grown man,” Shurmur said. “I think he’s gonna be a tremendous player here for a very long time. He’s a quarterback’s best friend. When things get a little dicey, you just turn around and hand it to him, and I really believe he’s gonna be a big part of what we do.

“We could tell from the meeting room interaction to the field that he learns extremely well. All that’s in his favor, and I think this weekend helped him.”

New back in mix

Shurmur said the Browns have signed Toledo running back Adonis Thomas, who spent rookie minicamp with the team on a tryout basis.

“He actually came in on a workout basis,” Shurmur said. “It was just a weekend tryout, and [he] impressed us enough where we signed him to our 90-man roster. So he’ll be coming to training camp with us. He did a terrific job and we feel like he’s got a chance to contribute.”

Shurmur said Adonis filled the vacancy left on the roster by Ohio State linebacker Andrew Sweat, who signed with the Browns as an undrafted free agent but decided not to pursue an NFL career.

Phil Taylor update

Shurmur said defensive tackle Phil Taylor will have surgery Wednesday to repair the left pectoral muscle he tore while lifting weights last week.

Third-round pick John Hughes is a candidate to replace Taylor in the starting lineup.

“Unfortunately with what happened to Phil Taylor, John’s gonna have to step it up and be a quicker part of what we do,” Shurmur said. … “We’re not gonna plug him in. He’s gonna have to get in there and compete with the other defensive tackles to win that spot. If he ends up being the guy, he’s obviously not as big as Phil. But I really believe he can create pass rush inside and play well against the run.”

There’s also a chance the Browns could acquire a veteran defensive lineman.

“We’ll continue to look at a veteran really at any position,” he said. “And we’ll know about how it all fits once we can get into the OTAs, and they’re all out there working together.”

Golden opportunity

Rookie linebackers James-Michael Johnson, a fourth-round pick, and Emmanuel Acho, a sixth-round selection, could receive a chance to crack the starting lineup right away if starting strongside linebacker Scott Fujita’s three-game suspension is upheld. The NFL punished Fujita for his alleged role in the New Orleans Saints’ bounty scandal. Fujita has denied involvement and reserved the right to appeal the suspension.

“I do think they did some things in the rookie minicamp that would make you say these guys got a chance,” Shurmur said of Johnson and Acho. … “I wouldn’t say one’s ahead of the other right now.”

Time to step up

This could be a make-or-break year for Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, who was plagued by injuries and didn’t produce much last season.

“It’s time for him to show us what we know he can do,” Shurmur said. “I think last year he was hampered by injury, which can be tough for a receiver. What I’ve seen thus far in the offseason, it looks like he’s gonna be ready to go.”

Reunion in cards?

Shurmur was asked if the Browns will re-sign left guard Eric Steinbach, who was cut in March after he missed last season with a back injury that required surgery. The Browns and Steinbach couldn’t agree on a restructured contract, leading to his release.

“There’s a chance [he could be brought back],” Shurmur said. “I know he’s out in that free-agent world right now trying to find a home. I don’t know the specifics right now, but I have a strong appreciation for Eric and what he did prior to being here last year. Unfortunately last year, he sustained his injury. So maybe. I couldn’t say yes at this point.”

Tight ends ready

Benjamin Watson suffered three concussions last year and ended the season on injured reserve, but Shurmur said Watson is poised to come back.

“He’s fine,” Shurmur said. “He looks great. He’s ready to go.”

Shurmur expects a significant jump in production from Jordan Cameron, who appeared in eight games last season as a rookie.

“The guy that looks way different is Jordan Cameron,” Shurmur said. “Oh, gosh -- the size -- and he’s had a great offseason. He’s a guy that hadn’t played much football, so I think he’ll make a big improvement this year.”

Uniform change

Shurmur indicated the Browns will wear brown jerseys for at least some of their home games this year. Last season, they wore white jerseys and white pants at home.

“Yeah, there’s a chance we can wear the brown [jerseys] this year,” he said.

Lots of laughs

Shurmur always seems to let loose at this event, showing the luncheon club his sense of humor for the second year in a row. He got big laughs from the following jokes:

On returning to the luncheon club: “I feel like coming back the second year I’m a little bit more like you guys. I’m a little balder, a lot grayer. Being the coach of the Browns will do that to ya.”
On the 28-year-old Weeden’s age: “I think he’s older than me. I know he’s more mature than me for sure.”
On being the last speaker of the luncheon club’s season: “It’s tough to stand here as the last guy. I’m sure you’ve heard some real funny guys, and you’ve probably been inspired and all that stuff. Well, sorry. They didn’t even feed me [lunch].”
On why the team won’t put the Brownie Elf on its uniforms: “That’s way above my pay grade. I’ll take that under advisement. [Vice president of media relations] Neal [Gulkis] tries to prepare me for all questions. That’s from the warning track in left field right there.”
On the increase in media coverage over the years: “If there was NFL Network when I was in college, I would have flunked out. I mean Euchre kept me grades down.”

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Loved the comment on Jordan Cameron.

To me, he is a huge wild card.

Imagine if we could get our own Jimmy Graham.

Mourg, I don't really care about any of that crap Shurmur is spewing, I want to know if Weeden can battle.

The big catch Cameron made in preseason last year made me believe the kid has more to offer. I like the praise. I also like the fact he called out Mo and let him know its time to step it up.

Ok, show me IN HISTORY where Either I or YTown said befre the draft that we wanted to draft Brandon Weeden.

I never said that. If you check my Facebook timeline seconds after picck 22 was announced you'll see an all caps 4 letter word that starts with F.

But Weeden is here now, And is likely going to be our starter.

He has talents that Colt McCoy WILL NEVER HAVE. I think EVEN YOU could admit that.

Is there going to be growing pains? Of course.

Am I more optimistic now than had Colt been the starter? Yes.

Have I ever thrown out SPECIFIC numbers (like you like to do) for Weeden this year? No.

But go ahead and continue spouting off whatever it is you currently are. Because unlike you, I enjoy when our team succeeds (regardless if I'm right or not)