Posted: Apr 27, 2012 9:55 AM PHT Updated: Apr 30, 2012 10:00 PM PHT By Bob Segall - bio
Millions of illegal immigrants are getting a bigger tax refund than you. Eyewitness News shows a massive tax loophole that provides billions of dollars in tax credits to undocumented workers and, in many cases, people who have never stepped foot in the United States. And you are paying for it!
Note: This is part one in a two-part series. Read part two here.
INDIANAPOLIS - Inside his central Indiana office, a longtime tax consultant sits at his desk, shaking his head in disbelief.
"There is not a doubt in my mind there's huge fraud taking place here," he said, slowly flipping through the pages of a tax return.
The tax preparer does not want you to know his name for fear of reprisal, but he does want you to know about a nationwide problem with a huge price tag.
He came to 13 Investigates to blow the whistle.
"We're talking about a multi-billion dollar fraud scheme here that's taking place and no one is talking about it," he said.
The scheme involves illegal immigrants -- illegal immigrants who are filing tax returns.
How it works
The Internal Revenue Service says everyone who is employed in the United States – even those who are working here illegally – must report income and pay taxes. Of course, undocumented workers are not supposed to have a social security number. So for them to pay taxes, the IRS created what's called an ITIN, an individual taxpayer identification number. A 9-digit ITIN number issued by the IRS provides both resident and nonresident aliens with a unique identification number that allows them to file tax returns.
While that may have seemed like a good idea, it's now backfiring in a big way.
Each spring, at tax preparation offices all across the nation, many illegal immigrants are now eagerly filing tax returns to take advantage of a tax loophole, using their ITIN numbers to get huge refunds from the IRS.
The loophole is called the Additional Child Tax Credit. It's a fully-refundable credit of up to $1000 per child, and it's meant to help working families who have children living at home.
But 13 Investigates has found many undocumented workers are claiming the tax credit for kids who live in Mexico – lots of kids in Mexico.
"We've seen sometimes 10 or 12 dependents, most times nieces and nephews, on these tax forms," the whistleblower told Eyewitness News. "The more you put on there, the more you get back."
The whistleblower has thousands of examples, and he brought some of them to 13 Investigates. While identifying information such as names and addresses on the tax returns was redacted, it was still clear that the tax filers had received large tax refunds after claiming additional child tax credits for many dependents.
"Here's a return right here: we've got a $10,3000 refund for nine nieces and nephews," he said, pointing to the words "niece" and "nephew" listed on the tax forms nine separate times.
"We're getting an $11,000 refund on this tax return. There's seven nieces and nephews," he said, pointing to another set of documents. "I can bring out stacks and stacks. It's just so easy it's ridiculous."
20 kids = $30,000
WTHR spoke to several undocumented workers who confirmed it is easy.
They all agreed to talk with WTHR investigative reporter Bob Segall and a translator as long as WTHR agreed not to reveal their identity.
One of the workers, who was interviewed at his home in southern Indiana, admitted his address was used this year to file tax returns by four other undocumented workers who don't even live there. Those four workers claimed 20 children live inside the one residence and, as a result, the IRS sent the illegal immigrants tax refunds totaling $29,608.
13 Investigates saw only one little girl who lives at that address (a small mobile home). We wondered about the 20 kids claimed as tax deductions?
"They don't live here," said the undocumented worker. "The other kids are in their country of origin, which is Mexico."
He later explained none of the 20 children have ever visited the United States – let alone lived here.
So why should undocumented workers receive tax credits for children living in a foreign country, which is a violation of IRS tax rules?
"If the opportunity is there and they can give it to me, why not take advantage of it?" the worker said.
Other undocumented workers in Indiana told 13 Investigates the same thing. Their families are collecting tax refunds for children who do not live in this country. Several of the workers told WTHR they were told it was legal for them to claim the tax credit for a child who does not live in the United States.
IRS was repeatedly warned
"The magnitude of the problem has grown exponentially," said Russell George, the United States Department of Treasury's Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA).
And he says the IRS has known about the problem for years.
George has repeatedly warned the IRS that additional child tax credits are being abused by undocumented workers. In 2009, his office released an audit report that showed ITIN tax filers received about $1 billion in additional child tax credits. Last year, the inspector general released a new report showing the problem now costs American tax payers more than $4.2 billion.
"Keep in mind, we're talking $4 billion per year," he said. "It's very troubling."
What George finds even more troubling is the IRS has not taken action despite multiple warnings from the inspector general.
"Millions of people are seeking this tax credit who, we believe, are not entitled to it," said the inspector general. "We have made recommendations to [IRS] as to how they could address this, and they have not taken sufficient action in our view to solve the problem."
Other information obtained from the TIGTA audits include:
· Claims for additional child tax credits by ITIN filers have skyrocketed during the past decade, from $161 million in 2001 to $4.2 billion in tax year 2010.
· Undocumented workers filed 3.02 million tax returns in 2010. 72% of those returns (2.18 million) claimed the additional child tax credit.
· In 2010, the IRS owed undocumented workers more in claimed additional child tax credits than it collected from those workers in taxes.
Agency responds – sort of
What does the IRS have to say about all this?
The agency sent WTHR a statement, defending its policy of paying tax credits to illegal immigrants.
"The law has been clear for over a decade that eligibility for these credits does not depend on work authorization status or the type of taxpayer identification number used. Any suggestion that the IRS shouldn't be paying out these credits under current law to ITIN holders is simply incorrect. The IRS administers the law impartially and applies it as it is written," the statement said.
George disagrees with that position and believes the IRS should be doing more to prevent undocumented workers from getting billions in US tax dollars.
"The IRS is not doing something as simple as requesting sufficient documentation from people seeking this credit," he said. "Once the money goes out the door, it's nearly impossible for the IRS to get it back."
Over the past month, WTHR has tried to ask the IRS more questions about its efforts to prevent abuse involving additional child tax credits.
Despite repeated phone calls, e-mails and a visit to IRS headquarters in Washington, the agency said none of its 100,000 employees had time to meet with 13 Investigates for an interview. An IRS spokeswoman said all staff were too busy because of the tax filing deadline in mid-April.
Apparently, the IRS doesn't have time to respond to some tax preparers, either.
Last year, our whistleblower noticed dozens of undocumented workers had used phony documents and false income to claim tax credits. He reported all of it to the IRS.
"These were fraudulent, 100% fraudulent tax returns, but I got no response; absolutely none. We never heard a thing," he said. "To me, it's clear the IRS is letting this happen."
The IRS tells WTHR it can do nothing to change the current system unless it gets permission from Congress. In other words, according to the IRS, closing the loophole would require lawmakers to pass a new law specifically excluding illegal immigrants from claiming additional child tax credits.
The big questions now: Is Congress willing to do that?
What's next
Tomorrow night, 13 Investigates will show you how lawmakers are reacting to WTHR's investigation and what they plan to do about. You'll also hear why some undocumented workers say the credits are essential and should be left intact. Our investigation continues Friday night at 11:00.
Full statement to WTHR from the Internal Revenue Service
The law has been clear for over a decade that eligibility for these credits does not depend on work authorization status or the type of taxpayer identification number used. Any suggestion that the IRS shouldn't be paying out these credits under current law to ITIN holders is simply incorrect. The IRS administers the law impartially and applies it as it is written. If the law were changed, the IRS would change its programs accordingly. The IRS disagrees with TIGTA's recommendation on requiring additional documentation to verify child credit claims. As TIGTA acknowledges in this report, the IRS does not currently have the legal authority to verify and disallow the Child Tax Credit and the Additional Child Tax Credit during return processing simply because of the lack of documentation. The IRS has procedures in place specifically for the evaluation of questionable credit claims early in the processing stream and prior to issuance of a refund. The IRS continues to work to refine and improve our processes.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
last year I got a penalty for about $3000 extra because my tax return was rejected and thus late because someone had already tried to file in my name... took about 9 months to get my money back....
This, things like Buffet wanting "rich" people to pay more in taxes when he himself owes how many millions in back taxes? How many "celebrities" owe back taxes?
Unreal. And yet, you or I? Get audited and the IRS finds a "problem"? They'll sink their teeth in so deep you'll never heal. OR, you'll go to prison.
Unreal. Buffet pisses me off. Jackwagon owes millions in back taxes, yet he still insists "others" should pay more?????
This country is a hand basket. Hell is right around the corner - and this country is sprinting full speed to hell.
Of course, getting back taxes for lying on their returns is nothing compared to the money the top earners get back for loopholes they bought into law.
While fraud sucks and i hope everyone involved is prosecuted, this is not an illegal immigration issue, it's a fraud issue, and plenty of legal residents commit just as much fraud.
Honestly, it's kind of karma, considering the government was trying to get taxes from people working here while refusing to give them the right to work here - essentially trying to make money off of criminal activity.
In any event, it's a pittance compared to the daily theft taking place legally by our government. Go illegal immigrants, take the money and run.
Quote: Go illegal immigrants, take the money and run.
Wow. How bout we round up the ILLEGAL immigrants and get them the hell out of our country? If I were to be ILLEGAL in Mexico I'd be in prison.
This article irritates me to no end. Some will say the ILLEGAL immigrants are not the problem here - they are just using the tax code as it is designed. That may be true, but they are still ILLEGAL. It was stupid for the government to put this into place - how could they not see it coming? How about we get rid of the ILLEGAL immigrants.
I swear, the government looks for every possible way to get more money from the people instead of controlling their own spending. I agree arch, I think hell is right around the corner. Time to buy more ammo and make sure my food supplies are in order.
Quote: Of course, getting back taxes for lying on their returns is nothing compared to the money the top earners get back for loopholes they bought into law.
While fraud sucks and i hope everyone involved is prosecuted, this is not an illegal immigration issue, it's a fraud issue, and plenty of legal residents commit just as much fraud.
Honestly, it's kind of karma, considering the government was trying to get taxes from people working here while refusing to give them the right to work here - essentially trying to make money off of criminal activity.
In any event, it's a pittance compared to the daily theft taking place legally by our government. Go illegal immigrants, take the money and run.
The IRS also expect drug dealers to pay taxes on their earnings as well. Considering that the arrested Al Capone on the basis of not paying his taxes, they been doing this for years.
But Illegal immigrants should not be receiving these tax credits to begin with and they shouldn't be working to begin with and we should be making it harder for them to live here than easier. But I am guessing you want to make it easier for them to live here, like not impounding their cars for not having a license(while you impound citizen's vehicles who actually have the gumption of actually applying for a license to begin with) or allowing them to get college scholarship as tuition increases and actual citizens are trying get money for education.
Furthermore, good luck getting that money back from the illegal immigrants when fraud is actually found, because they will do exactly what you said and take the money and run whereas a regular citizen would have their assets frozen and taken by the IRS for being overpaid and be forced to pay it back.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
Quote: Of course, getting back taxes for lying on their returns is nothing compared to the money the top earners get back for loopholes they bought into law.
While fraud sucks and i hope everyone involved is prosecuted, this is not an illegal immigration issue, it's a fraud issue, and plenty of legal residents commit just as much fraud.
Honestly, it's kind of karma, considering the government was trying to get taxes from people working here while refusing to give them the right to work here - essentially trying to make money off of criminal activity.
In any event, it's a pittance compared to the daily theft taking place legally by our government. Go illegal immigrants, take the money and run.
Tax loopholes for the rich? Loopholes, as you call them, are written into law by..............Congress.
Hey, do yourself a favor. Take 19 minutes and 40 seconds and watch this video. Maybe then you'll see that we're screwed, as a country.
Sorry bud, taxing the rich isn't going to do anything. Spending has to be cut.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Congress cut the IRS budget late last year, and that is undermining the whole tax system. It's also why jaybird had to wait 9 months to get everything corrected. There simply isn't enough of a budget to get things done correctly or in a timely fashion.
I generally favor the argument that running a budget deficit violates the idea of "no taxation without representation". On a micro-level can you imagine a grandparent / parent pushing massive debts onto their children? No one would consider that very fair.
I was born into massive debt. Not exactly fair or charitable on the parts of the adults around before me. But then again that assumes that any of us have any control over the political system..which we mostly don't.
If I were running the Romney campaign, I would run a commercial with a father trying to quietly give his son a piggy bank .... and then there is a knock at the door ........ with federal agents coming to take his kid's money from him .........
"Sorry son, your parents, grandparents, and great grandparents spent it, but you're going to have to pay for it."
And the boy breaks out into tears ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If I were running the Romney campaign, I would run a commercial with a father trying to quietly give his son a piggy bank .... and then there is a knock at the door ........ with federal agents coming to take his kid's money from him .........
"Sorry son, your parents, grandparents, and great grandparents spent it, but you're going to have to pay for it."
A 2010 study says the total cost of illegal immigration is 113 billion per year. The largest portion of it is 52 billion per year spent by public schools educating children of illegals.
Quote: Congress cut the IRS budget late last year, and that is undermining the whole tax system. It's also why jaybird had to wait 9 months to get everything corrected. There simply isn't enough of a budget to get things done correctly or in a timely fashion.
If the tax code wasn't 80,000 pages long and filled with a gazillion nuances for every possible penny a business or person might make or spend maybe the system could be administered more accurately and with fewer agents... just a thought.
Quote: Congress cut the IRS budget late last year, and that is undermining the whole tax system. It's also why jaybird had to wait 9 months to get everything corrected. There simply isn't enough of a budget to get things done correctly or in a timely fashion.
If the tax code wasn't 80,000 pages long and filled with a gazillion nuances for every possible penny a business or person might make or spend maybe the system could be administered more accurately and with fewer agents... just a thought.
Oh that would never work ..........
:Sarcasm off:
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If the tax code wasn't 80,000 pages long and filled with a gazillion nuances for every possible penny a business or person might make or spend maybe the system could be administered more accurately and with fewer agents... just a thought.
Very valid point, and one I don't disagree with. However, you can't implement and run a system based on how you would like it to be. You have to go with current rules.
It makes no sense to me that Congress cut the IRS budget while the code remains complex. They should have simplified the system first, then reduced the IRS budget if the simpler system warranted it.
On top of that, based on estimates I have seen (I think in links from my post above), an IRS agent brings in nearly $100 in revenue for every $1 they earn in wages. With improper tax payments estimated to account for anywhere from 15-20% in revenue loss, that seems like a good investment to me. It probably even justifies expanding the IRS.
Quote: It makes no sense to me that Congress cut the IRS budget while the code remains complex.
Wow.. congress does things out of order... like cutting IRS agents before simplifying the system... and spending money before they have it... I'm shocked.
Quote: Of course, getting back taxes for lying on their returns is nothing compared to the money the top earners get back for loopholes they bought into law.
While fraud sucks and i hope everyone involved is prosecuted, this is not an illegal immigration issue, it's a fraud issue, and plenty of legal residents commit just as much fraud.
Honestly, it's kind of karma, considering the government was trying to get taxes from people working here while refusing to give them the right to work here - essentially trying to make money off of criminal activity.
In any event, it's a pittance compared to the daily theft taking place legally by our government. Go illegal immigrants, take the money and run.
The IRS also expect drug dealers to pay taxes on their earnings as well. Considering that the arrested Al Capone on the basis of not paying his taxes, they been doing this for years.
But Illegal immigrants should not be receiving these tax credits to begin with and they shouldn't be working to begin with and we should be making it harder for them to live here than easier. But I am guessing you want to make it easier for them to live here, like not impounding their cars for not having a license(while you impound citizen's vehicles who actually have the gumption of actually applying for a license to begin with) or allowing them to get college scholarship as tuition increases and actual citizens are trying get money for education.
Furthermore, good luck getting that money back from the illegal immigrants when fraud is actually found, because they will do exactly what you said and take the money and run whereas a regular citizen would have their assets frozen and taken by the IRS for being overpaid and be forced to pay it back.
I can only assume you are making assumptions because a "regular" citizen committing fraud does not just sit on the money waiting for the government to freeze their accounts. I am a criminal defense lawyer. I've actually represented both citizens committing fraud and illegals comitting fraud. The only difference is that after the illegals finish their prison term, they get deported. In all other ways, they are the same.
Just like in all other ways in education, morals, religion, humanity, and etc., citizens are the same as illegals. There is no difference except in the designation by the very government you are criticizing. Your status as a legal resident, entitled to all the advantages and benefits, is just an arbitrary designation by the government. You are no better or worse than any other person.
And yes, I believe we should make it easier for them to be here. I believe in complete amnesty for all. I'm sure that will make me popular on this board.
Quote: And yes, I believe we should make it easier for them to be here. I believe in complete amnesty for all. I'm sure that will make me popular on this board.
That's all fine and dandy, but if we don't secure the border first, we will just have a flood of 10 million more to take their place as illegals who work much cheaper, use resources and force us to learn a second language in our own country.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: I am a criminal defense lawyer. I've actually represented both citizens committing fraud and illegals comitting fraud. The only difference is that after the illegals finish their prison term, they get deported. In all other ways, they are the same.
So we foot the bill for them while they are in jail When they should be deported as soon as they are found to be illegal
Quote: And yes, I believe we should make it easier for them to be here. I believe in complete amnesty for all. I'm sure that will make me popular on this board.
Given our times and the things that have happened in this country, making it easier isn't the answer in and of itself. In fact, making it tougher is smarter overall.
When my grandparents immigrated to the USA it wasn't all that difficult sounding they way they told it. But still, you had certain rules you had to follow, certain things you had to do to get in. (please don't ask me what all they were,, man, they told me this stuff when I was a kid)
THe point is, we still need to make sure that ONLY those that wish to enter the country do so LEGALLY.. those that don't, I personally would give them no quarter.. I'd kick them out.. the minute I find them.
But as long as they will follow our laws to enter the USA, I'm good with it. Really good with it. Those that come here in search of a better life for the family,, I applaud them.
I ask only a few things of them.
1. Come into this country legally.
2. Learn our language. You came here,, remember. It shouldn't be our responsibility to learn yours or to turn our lives upside down to fit your needs
3. Obey our laws..
4. Work hard, pay your taxes
5. Become a US citizen as soon as you are allowed to do so.
As for those that are already here illegally,, I'm sorry,, they gotta go. They can come back legally later, but right now, they gotta go. simple as that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I am a criminal defense lawyer. I've actually represented both citizens committing fraud and illegals comitting fraud. The only difference is that after the illegals finish their prison term, they get deported. In all other ways, they are the same.
So we foot the bill for them while they are in jail When they should be deported as soon as they are found to be illegal
That's due to our obsession with punishment. We want to punish them in prison first. We're willing to pay to punish people, even if they're going to get deported afterwards.
IMO if the american people could vote on this they would rather have them deported than living on our dime. Now if anybody want's to come to this country legally then more power to them I support them 100 percent.
Quote: And yes, I believe we should make it easier for them to be here. I believe in complete amnesty for all. I'm sure that will make me popular on this board.
I suppose if I was a criminal defense attorney that profited from people committing crime, I might feel the same way.
Quote: And yes, I believe we should make it easier for them to be here. I believe in complete amnesty for all. I'm sure that will make me popular on this board.
I suppose if I was a criminal defense attorney that profited from people committing crime, I might feel the same way.
Well, not really. It'd be horrible for my business. The crimes they commit are mostly the crime of coming into the country illegally. Plus most of them don't have a lot of money and can't hire a private attorney. No, white u.s. citizens committing fraud provide most of the income for private criminal defense attorneys.
I find it so hilarious that people think illegal immigrants are this huge source of crime. It's a joke. The crimes they commit are illegal entry and returning after deportation. Other than that, their crime rate mirrors the rest of the country.
Maybe I'm a bit more biased because I live in Houston so we see a lot of illegals here committing serious crimes, we have several hispanic gangs in the area that are not US citizens..
but the crime isn't my biggest beef.... I get upset that we are loading up our schools with children of illegals which puts too much stress on our teachers.... I also get upset that we have so many illegals in our hospitals either being funded by medicaid or with the hospitals footing the bills.
I'm all for letting people in the country if they do it the right way and are contributing to our country (of course there are a lot of americans I really wish would contribute more to our country).
Quote: Other than that, their crime rate mirrors the rest of the country.
In theory, they are committing crimes that would not be committed if they weren't here. Those crimes cost money to catch, process, prosecute, detain, etc...
It's like saying that I spend $300 a year on auto maintenance so if I buy two more cars, which also require $300 a year in maintenance it's not really costing me anything...
Quote: Other than that, their crime rate mirrors the rest of the country.
In theory, they are committing crimes that would not be committed if they weren't here. Those crimes cost money to catch, process, prosecute, detain, etc...
It's like saying that I spend $300 a year on auto maintenance so if I buy two more cars, which also require $300 a year in maintenance it's not really costing me anything...
There are also quite a few of them paying taxes that wouldn't be paid if they weren't here. And even more to the point, they are also here spending money and contributing to the economy that wouldn't happen if they were here.
Your logic is for a general decrease in population. If that's the worry, then we can restrict childbirth like China does.
Quote: Other than that, their crime rate mirrors the rest of the country.
In theory, they are committing crimes that would not be committed if they weren't here. Those crimes cost money to catch, process, prosecute, detain, etc...
It's like saying that I spend $300 a year on auto maintenance so if I buy two more cars, which also require $300 a year in maintenance it's not really costing me anything...
There are also quite a few of them paying taxes that wouldn't be paid if they weren't here. And even more to the point, they are also here spending money and contributing to the economy that wouldn't happen if they were here.
Your logic is for a general decrease in population. If that's the worry, then we can restrict childbirth like China does.
The whole point is they are ILLEGAL. Get them out. Period.
Quote: Other than that, their crime rate mirrors the rest of the country.
In theory, they are committing crimes that would not be committed if they weren't here. Those crimes cost money to catch, process, prosecute, detain, etc...
It's like saying that I spend $300 a year on auto maintenance so if I buy two more cars, which also require $300 a year in maintenance it's not really costing me anything...
There are also quite a few of them paying taxes that wouldn't be paid if they weren't here. And even more to the point, they are also here spending money and contributing to the economy that wouldn't happen if they were here.
Your logic is for a general decrease in population. If that's the worry, then we can restrict childbirth like China does.
The whole point is they are ILLEGAL. Get them out. Period.
Quote: Well, if millions upon millions are committing what you admit is a crime, they in fact are a huge source of crime. I don't see what the joke is.
It's a crime on paper, yeah, but at the end of the day, the vast majority is a crime of someone being told 'Hey, you come over here, there will be lines of people ready to hire you on for an hourly wage that you make in a week. Don't worry about the legal stuff, your boss won't care, and there's government subsidies involved.'
At the end of the day, our immigration problem is swelling and will eventually get out of control. But the incense people have about illegal interest is a bit of a joke. We need them in our economy, we want them in our economy. They're there for a reason.
I would love to see some sort of unity in an 'illegal immigrants strike week', where we actually saw the outcome it would have on our economy. Hotels, restaurants, gold courses, the people that clean your office ... but that really wouldn't happen because for the most part, they're here to work.
And don't get me wrong ... there's a lot of lazy bad apples ... it comes with the territory of humanity. But for the most part it's honest people who took a dishonest shortcut to live an incredibly better life, and they work for it. I can understand fretting about the economic ramifications at some point, but the sheer ire, the ship 'em the F out' mentality ... is kind of baffling, and I think it's a bit of a joke myself.
From my experience (which only goes so far), a lot of the bad apples will get themselves weeded out. Those with some sense of purpose generally keep their noses clean. And sometimes, especially in smaller towns, you'll see employers who draw water help employed illegals nabbed on a small crime or a traffic violation stick around.
Yep, that's my point. Unless that changes, the rest of your post is meaningless. If the laws were enforced from the beginning, we wouldn't have the mess you describe.
Quote: I would love to see some sort of unity in an 'illegal immigrants strike week', where we actually saw the outcome it would have on our economy.
It would be a serious blow to the economy, but it wouldn't prove anything except that it took decades of corruptness for this problem to evolve, and it will take time to solve if any of our politicians have the balls to confront it. The day is approaching where those jobs will be sought by legal citizens.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: I would love to see some sort of unity in an 'illegal immigrants strike week', where we actually saw the outcome it would have on our economy. Hotels, restaurants, gold courses, the people that clean your office ...
I wanna work at a "gold course". That sounds like fun.
Anyway ..... yeah .... let them strike ... that way we can see what businesses are cheating and hiring people illegally, and take legal action against them.
Sorry but I disagree that hotels and restaurants can't survive if they have to hire only people who are legally permitted to work in this country. If that's the case, then their businesses are poorly run. There are so many people who need jobs that there should be no reason that they can't fill those positions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I would love to see some sort of unity in an 'illegal immigrants strike week', where we actually saw the outcome it would have on our economy. Hotels, restaurants, gold courses, the people that clean your office ... but that really wouldn't happen because for the most part, they're here to work.
They had "Illegal immigrants strike day" a few years ago ... I noticed nothing really ... except a few mexican restaurants were closed for the day and the highway traffic was amazingly better.
Quote: We need them in our economy, we want them in our economy. They're there for a reason.
Total bullcrap, we don't want them or need them. What we need and want is them out, so that american citizens can have jobs to feed their families, and we can quit wasting our tax dollars on them.
I would love to see some sort of unity in an 'illegal immigrants strike week', where we actually saw the outcome it would have on our economy. Hotels, restaurants, gold courses, the people that clean your office ... but that really wouldn't happen because for the most part, they're here to work.
The only jobs they do that Americans don't want are the farm jobs, and even then, most of those have migrant worker visas.
I know a lot of Americans that would love to Drywall, put up CBS block, landscape, cook in restaurants, concrete work, painting contractors. Those are just the ones I encounter daily that have almost all Hispanic crews that "at least claim" to not speak English.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: There are also quite a few of them paying taxes that wouldn't be paid if they weren't here. And even more to the point, they are also here spending money and contributing to the economy that wouldn't happen if they were here.
There are also a ton of unemployed people who are here legally who can't find jobs because they aren't willing to work for nothing like the illegals do... Whatever money they make, whatever taxes they pay, whatever they do for the economy, would be done by somebody else if they weren't here.
Quote: Your logic is for a general decrease in population. If that's the worry, then we can restrict childbirth like China does.
That's an idiotic thing to say, is that how you argue cases, with moronic and insulting hyperbole?... my logic is that we are a nation of laws and we should not get to pick and choose which laws we feel are worth obeying and which ones are not based on our own interpretation of what is "fair" and how we "feel" about it.
This is the part I don't understand.. total population of Mexico is about 115 million.. number of mexicans in the united states illegally is estimated at about 8 million... over 100K Mexicans come into this country legally every year.... plus the people that are still in Mexico that are hard working and want a better life for their family... with those kinds of numbers, why can't they enact reforms in Mexico? They have natural resources, they have tourism, they have agriculture, they have manufacturing and textiles...
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png)
How bout we round up the ILLEGAL immigrants and get them the hell out of our country? If I were to be ILLEGAL in Mexico I'd be in prison. 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif){kind=logo}
When they should be deported as soon as they are found to be illegal
