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Boston.com Article Facebook cofounder Saverin renounces US citizenship ahead of IPO By Bloomberg News Eduardo Saverin, the billionaire cofounder of Facebook Inc., renounced his US citizenship before an initial public offering that values the social network at as much as $96 billion, a move that may reduce his tax bill.Facebook plans to raise as much as $11.8 billion through the IPO, the biggest in history for an Internet company. Saverin’s stake is about 4 percent, according to the website Who Owns Facebook. At the high end of the IPO valuation, that would be worth about $3.84 billion. His holdings aren’t listed in Facebook’s regulatory filings. Saverin, 30, joins a growing number of people giving up US citizenship, a move that can reduce their tax liabilities in this country. The Brazilian-born resident of Singapore is one of several people who helped Mark Zuckerberg start Facebook in a Harvard University dorm, and stand to reap billions of dollars after the world’s largest social network holds its IPO. “Eduardo recently found it more practical to become a resident of Singapore since he plans to live there for an indefinite period of time,” said Tom Goodman, a spokesman for Saverin, in an e-mailed statement. Saverin’s name is on a list of people who chose to renounce citizenship as of April 30, published by the Internal Revenue Service. Saverin renounced his US citizenship “around September” of last year, according to his spokesman. Singapore doesn’t have a capital gains tax. It does tax income earned in that nation, as well as “certain foreign- sourced income,” according to a government website on tax policies there. Saverin won’t escape all US taxes. Americans who give up their citizenship owe what is effectively an exit tax on the capital gains from their stock holdings, even if they don’t sell the shares, said Reuven S. Avi-Yonah, director of the international tax program at the University of Michigan’s law school. For tax purposes, the IRS treats the stock as if it has been sold. Renouncing your citizenship well in advance of an IPO is “a very smart idea,” from a tax standpoint, said Avi-Yonah. “Once it’s public you can’t fool around with the value.” Saverin previously scuffled with Zuckerberg, his Harvard University classmate, over his ownership in Facebook. Saverin sued him and settled for an undisclosed amount. The 2010 movie “The Social Network” added to Saverin’s fame after it portrayed him as a scorned friend who provided the company’s early financing and then was squeezed out. In the film, written by Aaron Sorkin, Saverin was portrayed by Andrew Garfield, who will play Spider-Man in “The Amazing Spider- Man.” Saverin moved to the US in 1992, and became a citizen in 1998, his spokesman said. He has invested in Asian, US, and European companies, according to his spokesman. He plans to keep investing in Brazilian and global companies that have strong interests in entering the Asian markets. “Accordingly, it made the most sense for him to use Singapore as a home base,” Goodman said in the statement. His US holdings include Jumio Inc., an online payments company, and ShopSavvy Inc., a price-comparison service. Renouncing citizenship is an option chosen by increasing numbers of Americans. A record 1,780 gave up their US passports last year compared with 235 in 2008, according to government records. Income-tax rates for top US earners will rise to 39.6 percent from 35 percent next year, and rates on capital gains and dividends also are scheduled to rise unless Congress blocks the increases. “It’s a loss for the US to have many well-educated people who actually have a great deal of affection for America make that choice,” said Richard Weisman, an attorney at Baker & McKenzie in Hong Kong. “The tax cost, complexity and the traps for the unwary are among the considerations.” Some of the world’s largest wealth-management firms have ramped up efforts to fight tax evasion ahead of Washington’s implementation of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, known as Fatca, which seeks to prevent tax evasion by Americans with offshore accounts. HSBC Holdings Plc, Deutsche Bank AG, Bank of Singapore Ltd. and DBS Group Holdings Ltd. all say they have turned away business. The 2010 law, to be phased in starting Jan. 1, 2013, requires financial institutions based outside the US to obtain and report information about income and interest payments accrued to the accounts of American clients. That means additional compliance costs for banks and fewer investment options and advisers for all US citizens living abroad, which may depress banks’ returns. Facebook plans to price its IPO on May 17, offering 337.4 million shares at $28 to $35 each. The shares will be listed on the Nasdaq Stock Market under the symbol FB. Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. are leading the sale.
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I can just see the debates this fall...
Romney: "My opponent refuses to give tax breaks to business people. Do you know what will happen? They will revoke their American citizenship because of my opponent! I, as president, will make sure not to lose anymore productive American citizens by giving tax breaks to job creators."
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Facebook plans to raise as much as $11.8 billion through the IPO, the biggest in history for an Internet company. Saverin’s stake is about 4 percent, according to the website Who Owns Facebook. At the high end of the IPO valuation, that would be worth about $3.84 billion. His holdings aren’t listed in Facebook’s regulatory filings.
Isn't 4% of 11.8 billion only 472 million?
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As much as you make a joke of this ...... how many US companies have moved their headquarters overseas because of crushing corporate tax rates? (35% on corporate profits, plus individual taxes on dividends) The US currently has the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Why would any business incorporate here if they don't have to?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The reason these corporations are moving, as we all discussed in the Foxconn thread, is because they like higher profit margins overseas. They can pay workers 1% of what they pay American workers, not deal with "evil communist labor unions!", and work the workers 12 hours a day without overtime. We still need to give them tax breaks, right?
I'm not of the belief that money can trump ethics, human dignity, and values.
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The reason these corporations are moving, as we all discussed in the Foxconn thread, is because they like higher profit margins overseas. They can pay workers 1% of what they pay American workers, not deal with "evil communist labor unions!", and work the workers 12 hours a day without overtime. We still need to give them tax breaks, right?
I'm not of the belief that money can trump ethics, human dignity, and values.
Exactly.
In the grand scheme, the tax rate isn't what's driving corporations and factories out. It's the cheaper production costs.
Our corporate tax rate right now is around 39.2%, though most major companies don't pay nearly that - with tax breaks and deductions it gets down to about 15% or less. China's corporate tax rate is around 25%, though, again, most major companies pay about 15% or less as well. Once deductions and breaks are figured into the equation, the corporate tax rates of the U.S. and China (as well as most other major players) are close enough that they can't really be cited as a driving factor.
It's the cheap labor and ability to work it like a dog that's most appealing. And as China grows, we're beginning to see some of their production being moved to places where it's even cheaper.
If we could get our finances in order, I think the personal income tax rate should be lowered. The Bush tax cuts wouldn't have been a terrible idea and the moron not decided to launch two wars and skyrocket social spending and corporate subsidies. Obama is currently perpetuating the mistake at an increased rate. But as far as corporate is concerned ... they're already getting away with enough, and have zero allegiance to the greater good of the society.
To put it in simple terms, they wouldn't pee on us if we were on fire ... I don't see any need to placate them any further. We already do more than enough in corporate subsidies and launching military operations for their benefit.
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Quote:
Quote:
The reason these corporations are moving, as we all discussed in the Foxconn thread, is because they like higher profit margins overseas. They can pay workers 1% of what they pay American workers, not deal with "evil communist labor unions!", and work the workers 12 hours a day without overtime. We still need to give them tax breaks, right?
I'm not of the belief that money can trump ethics, human dignity, and values.
Exactly.
In the grand scheme, the tax rate isn't what's driving corporations and factories out. It's the cheaper production costs.
Our corporate tax rate right now is around 39.2%, though most major companies don't pay nearly that - with tax breaks and deductions it gets down to about 15% or less. China's corporate tax rate is around 25%, though, again, most major companies pay about 15% or less as well. Once deductions and breaks are figured into the equation, the corporate tax rates of the U.S. and China (as well as most other major players) are close enough that they can't really be cited as a driving factor.
It's the cheap labor and ability to work it like a dog that's most appealing. And as China grows, we're beginning to see some of their production being moved to places where it's even cheaper.
If we could get our finances in order, I think the personal income tax rate should be lowered. The Bush tax cuts wouldn't have been a terrible idea and the moron not decided to launch two wars and skyrocket social spending and corporate subsidies. Obama is currently perpetuating the mistake at an increased rate. But as far as corporate is concerned ... they're already getting away with enough, and have zero allegiance to the greater good of the society.
To put it in simple terms, they wouldn't pee on us if we were on fire ... I don't see any need to placate them any further. We already do more than enough in corporate subsidies and launching military operations for their benefit.
Actually .... both play a role.
However, as far as corporations moving their headquarters, and incorporating overseas, that has everything to do with tax rates.
Lower labor costs definitely can have an impact on a business's decision to move production, however it has to be balanced against transportation costs, the cost of doing business with foreign governments, and so on. Right now the US is a tough place to do business, and the government is putting up even more roadblocks.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Means he's moving back to Brazil right? 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Facebook plans to raise as much as $11.8 billion through the IPO, the biggest in history for an Internet company. Saverin’s stake is about 4 percent, according to the website Who Owns Facebook. At the high end of the IPO valuation, that would be worth about $3.84 billion. His holdings aren’t listed in Facebook’s regulatory filings.
Isn't 4% of 11.8 billion only 472 million?
4% of 96 is 3.84.
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I know two guys that either have or are in the process of ! .. It's not all that easy with a Ton of of parer work and Govt. depts. I remember folks saying " If you don't like here just leave " welllllllllllllllll ! From what I can gather ; the Govt. could give a rats ass on you leaving , or even Why.. All they want is info about is your finances ..  There was a program ( 60 min type ) about all the Biz. that has pulled out of France because of Govt. intervention and Tax's .. The Left never learns until it is to late 
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it didn't stop him from making all that money off of 350 million americans.
he wouldn't have near as much money if he only was able to sell facebook to however many singapore ians.
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“It’s a loss for the US to have many well-educated people who actually have a great deal of affection for America make that choice,” said Richard Weisman,
BS. They love the advantages that America provides to their opportunities but are unwilling to give their share when they become fabulously rich. If the tax rates were so oppressive in the US maybe he should have stayed in brazil and gotten kidnapped or gotten AIDS. Or maybe he wishes he'd been born in Singapore and become a natural gas miner or transvestite prostitute. This guy is just a greedy a-hole and wants to blame America for it.
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Yeah, you're right. Can someone please delete that? I just get very angry when people blame America for their greedy actions.
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This is already happening. Trust me I see it and there are more that are looking at it.
What is a big reason that people move to Texas and Florida? Taxes.
Why will some rich people choose to live outside the US? Taxes
It's just the next step in the evolution.
And I have no doubt that this guy has an affinity for this country.
But what would you do if you had the option.
Door A: Stay in the US and pay the federal government $1.5 Billion
Door B: Leave the US and keep that money.
I don't blame him and I'd probably make the same choice honestly.
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The reason these corporations are moving, as we all discussed in the Foxconn thread, is because they like higher profit margins overseas. They can pay workers 1% of what they pay American workers, not deal with "evil communist labor unions!", and work the workers 12 hours a day without overtime. We still need to give them tax breaks, right?
Umm.. he's not moving a corporation or a manufacturing base, he's moving himself and his own personal wealth out of here because it is fiscally responsible to do so.
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I'm not of the belief that money can trump ethics, human dignity, and values.
You would be wrong.... but regardless, what is he doing that is unethical or lacking in values?
Let's be honest, America is still a country which provides a great opportunity to GET rich, perhaps it's just not such a great country in which to BE rich.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
The reason these corporations are moving, as we all discussed in the Foxconn thread, is because they like higher profit margins overseas. They can pay workers 1% of what they pay American workers, not deal with "evil communist labor unions!", and work the workers 12 hours a day without overtime. We still need to give them tax breaks, right?
Umm.. he's not moving a corporation or a manufacturing base, he's moving himself and his own personal wealth out of here because it is fiscally responsible to do so.
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I'm not of the belief that money can trump ethics, human dignity, and values.
You would be wrong.... but regardless, what is he doing that is unethical or lacking in values?
Let's be honest, America is still a country which provides a great opportunity to GET rich, perhaps it's just not such a great country in which to BE rich.
Bill Gates - Seattle, WA
Warren Buffett - Omaha, NE
Larry Ellison - Woodside, CA
Combined net worth: $131 billion.
Warren Buffett's tax rate: 11%
I'm pretty sure America is still the best country to be rich in. The sooner we acknowledge that essentially no one who is in the top tier economically pays 30-40% of their wealth in taxes, the sooner we can try to figure out a fair way to make everyone pay their fair share (in addition to cutting federal spending), Hell, even Romney only paid 14% and he's not a billionaire. We need to have an honest discussion about these things in order to get our debt under control so I don't have to spend my life in a country with an increasingly worse standard of living for the average citizen.
BTW, at the height of prosperity (1950s), the top tax rate was 91% and people weren't clamoring to leave the country then.
However, to focus on the topic of the thread...
I think this guy is a POS personally. I'm very proud of the obstacles I had to overcome to gain my American citizenship and swearing loyalty to the USA is one of the proudest days of my life. For this guy to throw it all away for money is despicable and he should be ashamed of himself.
Just my .02
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pay their fair share
Nothing gets me going more than this statement. 50% of the people in this country pay NO taxes - why is no one clamoring for them to at least pay something? Maybe even not getting a RETURN (i.e. gift) for earned income credits would be a start. If you don't pay anything you shouldn't get anything "back".
When 10% of the population account for about 70% of the taxes collected that to me is most certainly a "fair share".
IMO, everyone should pay something. Heck, I wouldn't be too upset about paying more if I knew it wasn't going to be squandered away buy these nimrod politicians.
The best solution, IMO, is Fair Tax which I fully support.
This stupid "distribution of wealth" and "fair share" crap is nothing more than class warfare propagated by rich politicians so that they can keep their cushy jobs.
#gmstrong
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Bill Gates - Seattle, WA
Warren Buffett - Omaha, NE
Larry Ellison - Woodside, CA
Combined net worth: $131 billion.
Warren Buffett's tax rate: 11%
You do know that your tax rate has nothing, zilch, zero, nada to do with net worth right?
You do also know that these benevolent billionaires have structured their own income in a way that allows them to pay the least amount possibly by taking payment primarily in some form other than salary right?
yebat' Putin
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You do know that your tax rate has nothing, zilch, zero, nada to do with net worth right?
Though I'm sure that there are those who think it would be fair to tax based on net worth year after year 
#gmstrong
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I agree, In my opinion, in a society where 50% of return filers pay no federal income taxes at all, anyone who pays income taxes already pays his/her "fair share".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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et's be honest, America is still a country which provides a great opportunity to GET rich, perhaps it's just not such a great country in which to BE rich.
Sorry, DC... But that's crap. What is the lifestyle difference of an American with a $1.5 billion net worth and one with a $1.0 billion net worth? This isn't about oppressive taxes. It's about greed and an overwhelming sense of entitlement.
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Umm.. he's not moving a corporation or a manufacturing base, he's moving himself and his own personal wealth out of here because it is fiscally responsible to do so.
I have a great deal of affection for my family... But I would be able to keep more of my money if I were to renounce them. Is that just fiscally responsible? Or would I not really have the affection for them I claimed to if I did so?
I am so tired of the scads of people who think "smart" and "selfish" are synonymous.
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et's be honest, America is still a country which provides a great opportunity to GET rich, perhaps it's just not such a great country in which to BE rich.
Sorry, DC... But that's crap. What is the lifestyle difference of an American with a $1.5 billion net worth and one with a $1.0 billion net worth? This isn't about oppressive taxes. It's about greed and an overwhelming sense of entitlement.
In that example there's not much difference, but it would come down to one's definition of rich. And if we are talking net worth or income. You tax people on net worth and even the richest man would eventually be poor.
Personally if this is what he chooses to do, so be it, but I also hope he goes to live in Singapore, because if he thinks he should be allowed to continue to live here then that is totally wrong. Hand in your passport and get out.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Sorry, DC... But that's crap. What is the lifestyle difference of an American with a $1.5 billion net worth and one with a $1.0 billion net worth? This isn't about oppressive taxes. It's about greed and an overwhelming sense of entitlement.
Tons of people are leaving some states for other states in the US to get a better job, improve quality of life, etc.. are they all sickeningly greedy too? Is crossing the US border to have more money that much worse than crossing the Ohio border to have more money?
The guy was born in Brazil, he wants to live in Singapore, the US only accounts for 15% of Facebooks membership, the stock sold in his IPO will be sold to people from all over the world...
I'm still struggling with why this guy should feel this overwhelming sense of loyalty to the United States.
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I have a great deal of affection for my family... But I would be able to keep more of my money if I were to renounce them. Is that just fiscally responsible? Or would I not really have the affection for them I claimed to if I did so?
I seriously doubt you would with alimony and child support, I'm pretty sure you would end up worse off.. no idea how many kids you have though...
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I am so tired of the scads of people who think "smart" and "selfish" are synonymous.
And I'm tired of the scads of people who would rather attack the rich than actually look at the problem.
This may come as a shock to some people but the rich do things that are in their own best interest just like poor people do... LeBron leaves for Miami because its in his own best interest, Boeing wants to build a plant in South Carolina instead of Oregon because its in its own best interest, other companies want to build plants overseas because its in their own best interest, Mexicans want to sneak into this country because its in their own best interest, my neighbors wife left him and their 4000 sf home and 3 kids to be with another guy that makes $40K a year because she felt it was in her own best interest, this guy wants to live in Singapore and not be an American because its in his own best interest... the only difference in all of those decisions is the reason its in their best interest and magnitude of the money.. it's not always money.
yebat' Putin
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Many retirees leave the country as well, because the dollar goes further in some foreign countries. They can then have a higher standard of living as a result. Are they disloyal?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Many retirees leave the country as well, because the dollar goes further in some foreign countries. They can then have a higher standard of living as a result. Are they disloyal?
Those disloyal citizens! They should all be hung for treason!
But this is the problem when you go after the rich and tax them because "they are rich and can afford it." The problem is that they can also afford to get up and leave and it wouldn't bother them one bit. In today's world, you can live in Singapore and even run a business that makes money in the US or is even based in the US. But these people clamoring to tax the rich fail to see that along with the fact that many of the rich don't make money off of income but income from stocks which is taxed differently which is why Buffet has such a lower tax rate. His annual salary is like under $10 a year. Heck, my annual salary is more than Buffet's.
Of course, it becomes more difficult to leave when it is a federal level tax, but people are still leaving to avoid the taxes. But this is happening at the state level which is even more idiotic. They are trying to do it in California this November which already has one of the highest tax rates along with one of the lowest ceilings to be considered "rich." Wait until everyone moves to Lake Tahoe, NV to run their California business or move their business there. But these "tax the rich" people think that they can continue to tax them and tax them more and that they will get the same or more returns from it. The problem is that they will eventually hit the Law of Diminishing Returns when people start moving away or fixing their salary to be $1 from the next bracket.
Last edited by ~TuX~; 05/17/12 11:48 AM.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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My uncle was an electrician for decades. He always used to take the last couple of months of the year off because he couldn't afford to continue to work. He would have worked for nothing.
He retired in the early 80s IIRC. I think he did more part time/consulting type work in his final 4 or 5 years on the job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My uncle was an electrician for decades. He always used to take the last couple of months of the year off because he couldn't afford to continue to work. He would have worked for nothing.
That may be so, but the tax structure nowadays is so drastically different that it's not even comparable. I provided a breakdown for that in the thread that was complaining about poor people in the united states have refridgerators and televisions.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...true#Post896621
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Facebook Co-Founder renounces US
Citizenship ahead of IPO...
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