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I think that we well could be ...... and that makes me happy.

I love the fact that we could have enough really good pieces in place on offense that we could go ahead and add an elite level WR next year and have a powerful, top of the NFL level offense.

Obviously, this means that the QB and RB we took this year have to be what we all hope they will be ...... but with a few things coming together, we could see an offensive explosion over the course of the next year .... built on the foundation of a powerful, and young, OL.

http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x3587865...ive-line?zc_p=0


Talk about building blocks ...

The Browns and Steelers have put their money where their smashmouth is.

Both the Browns and Steelers spent high draft picks on offensive linemen last month, and both teams are projected to send out five 2012 starters who were their own draft picks.

The average draft position of the five Browns is No. 58.4 overall, including rookie No. 37 overall pick Mitchell Schwartz. If one excludes the Browns’ lowest pick, 2011 fifth-rounder Jason Pinkston, the average is 38.2.

The average draft position of the five Steelers, including rookie No. 24 overall pick David DeCastro, is 60.6.

Center Maurkice Pouncey was Pittsburgh’s highest pick, No. 18 overall in 2010. Left tackle Joe Thomas, the third pick of the ’07 draft, was Cleveland’s.

Both teams had shaky lines in 2011, Pittsburgh in the wake of assorted injuries, Cleveland because of a leaky right side manned by first-year starter Shawn Lauvao and fading veteran Tony Pashos.

There was a price. Colt McCoy at times was a punching bag. Ben Roethlisberger never got back to his happy place after he became a high-low sandwich featuring Browns Scott Paxson and Brian Schaefering as nasty slices of bread.

Both teams think they can be great in the trenches this year. I know that in Cleveland’s case from hanging around all of the players.

As for Pittsburgh, veteran Willie Colon, who is being moved from right tackle to left guard, made a bolder prediction than the prove-it-first Pittsburgh brass tends to endorse.

“The biggest thing that kind of gets us is the injury bug and guys wilting away slowly,” Colon told Steelers.com. “If we stay healthy, we can easily be one of the best two lines in the league.”

The other two AFC North teams?

Three of the five projected Bengals starters were their own draft picks, including rookie No. 17 overall choice Kevin Zeitler, a guard.

As with the Browns, both Bengals tackles — 2009 No. 6 overall pick Andre Smith and 2006 Round 2 pick Andrew Whitworth — were drafted high. Journeyman center Kyle Cook and ex-Panthers guard Travelle Wharton are the two other starters.

Baltimore has paid the least attention to the O-line in its drafts.

Projected Ravens starters drafted by Ozzie Newsome are 2009 No. 23 overall pick Michael Oher at right tackle, 2007 Round 3 pick Marshall Yanda at right guard and 2011 Round 3 pick Jah Reid at left guard. The other starters, who spent most of their careers elsewhere, are left tackle Bryant McKinnie, who is going on 34, and center Matt Birk, who will turn 36 before training camp.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

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I'm sorry but the Browns are not yet going to have an elite offensive line.

They won't have the depth or experience. They don't have the elite superstars on the roster either.
They can play like an elite group, nothing is stopping them, but you can't just crown them based on how they look on paper. In truth, on paper, I think they are adequate, adequate, the Browns are building an adequate offensive line.

The Head Coach, is going to have his work cut out to get wins, but the excuses are running out.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:

I'm sorry but the Browns are not yet going to have an elite offensive line.

They won't have the depth or experience. They don't have the elite superstars on the roster either.
They can play like an elite group, nothing is stopping them, but you can't just crown them based on how they look on paper. In truth, on paper, I think they are adequate, adequate, the Browns are building an adequate offensive line.





If you can't crown them on paper.. then it wouldn't be fair to label them adequate either..

We have the most important parts of the Oline accounted for now in Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, and Mitchell Schwartz.. The Guards will feed off of the players around them. It's the perfect situation, and I think our offense will benefit well.

Seeing #3 on Weeden, its almost impossible to not think Derek Anderson.. but if Weeden can give us multiple 2007 seasons, I'm a happy man.... and it will make our o-line look stellar.


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I shall answer this with a poem.

No.

Our guards are bad. All stats from ProFootballFocus.com

Starting off with Shaun Lauvao. He had an overall ranking of -8.5 (-1.8 Pass and -1.4 Run). His overall ranking (among G's with 50% playing time) were 41 overall, 40th in pass blocking, and 21st in Run blocking.

My first thing I see is the large amount of penalties that reduce his rating(11 total penalties) Where he ranks as the most penalized G in the league. Even if he would have broke even with the penalties, his rating would have jumped to -2.2, which would have ranked him around 30th in G's with 50% playing time.

He also tied for the most sacks allowed with 6. However, only allowed 3 QB hits and on the higher side with 18 pressures.


week 1-4
Sacks/hits/pressures allowed (1/2/5) - 8
2 total penalties
average overall rating of -1.07 (-.5 pass and -.4 run) Per game

week 6-9
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (2/1/3) - 6
3 total penalties
average overall rating of -0.9 ( -0.3 pass and -0.1) per game

week 10-13
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (3/0/3) - 6
3 total penalties
average overall rating of 0.125 (0.125 pass and 0.2 Run) per game

week 14-17
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/0/7) - 7
3 total penalties
average overall rating of -0.275 (0.225 pass and -0.05 run) per game

He had his best games against JAC and ARI where he had 3.4 and 4.5 overall ratings. His worst game was week 17 against the Steelers.


-Jason Pinkston-

He had an overall ranking of -19.5 (yes, thats a negative sign) with -5.3 in pass protection and -14.6 in run blocking. Those numbers rank him (again, among guards that played at least half the season) 53rd overall, 49th in pass, and 56th in run. He did have 4 Penalties to get ranked 26th among guards.

Pinkston was also had a league high 10 QB pressures. Also tied for 6th worst with 24 QB pressures. Was only credited with allowing 1 QB sack, though.

Week 1-4
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/3/ - 11
1 penalty total
average overall rating of -1.45 (-.625 pass and -1.02 run) per game

Week 6-9
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/3/5) - 8
2 Total penalties
average overall rating of -2.53 (-0.43 pass and -2.02 run) per game

Week 10-13
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (1/1/1) - 3
1 penalty
average overall rating of 0.125 (-0.375 pass and .575 run)

Week 14-17
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/0/2) - 2
0 Penalties
Average overall rating of -1.02 (1.0 pass and -1.175 run)

He had a terrible, terrible stretch in the second quarter of the season.

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Hope you are right.. Weeden won't have a chance if he's nailed as often as McCoy was last season. But I think the line and the addition of a back like richardson will make a huge difference.


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My prediction:

By this time next year I will be wishing we drafted DeCastro at 22 instead of Weeden. Basically that means we would have gone RB, RG, RT with our top 3 picks. I bet we will draft another QB next year in the 1st round anyways (if we are drafting in the top 5 this is a for sure). At that point, it would have been awesome to have that line and then to plug in our franchise QB and then one playmaking WR.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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average overall rating of -1.07 (-.5 pass and -.4 run) Per game




-1.07 +3.285 carry the 3 divide by 13, stick your finger in your ear.... GMAB Shaun gets bashed way to much around here by people who don't pay attention to what goes on in the trenches.


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Quote:

My prediction:

By this time next year I will be wishing we drafted DeCastro at 22 instead of Weeden. Basically that means we would have gone RB, RG, RT with our top 3 picks. I bet we will draft another QB next year in the 1st round anyways (if we are drafting in the top 5 this is a for sure). At that point, it would have been awesome to have that line and then to plug in our franchise QB and then one playmaking WR.




they (the coaching staff and media) are saying a bunch of very very positive things about Weeden. (I expect them to be positive, I don't expect them go gush about him and they seem to be) There really isn't any reason at this point to doubt thier opinions.

If Weeden and Richardson and Schwarts pan out.. our draft is solid.. very solid. If one other draftee makes it or a UDFA makes an impact.. it will be one hell of a year player aquisition wise.


#GMSTRONG

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I'm with you Daman. IF all three pan out it will be the best draft (by far) since we've returned. However, I've also heard this song and dance before about a new QB (whether it be drafted or FA). There is a reason teams passed on him and he fell to 22. I realize his age plays a factor, but he's also a terrible QB under pressure. His accuracy diminshes greatly under duress and he also becomes flustered and makes poor decisions. Those tendencies don't bode well IMO.

Time will tell as always.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:

Quote:

average overall rating of -1.07 (-.5 pass and -.4 run) Per game




-1.07 +3.285 carry the 3 divide by 13, stick your finger in your ear.... GMAB Shaun gets bashed way to much around here by people who don't pay attention to what goes on in the trenches.




Thank you for that 1960's comment.

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Quote:

There is a reason teams passed on him and he fell to 22. I realize his age plays a factor, but he's also a terrible QB under pressure. His accuracy diminshes greatly under duress and he also becomes flustered and makes poor decisions. Those tendencies don't bode well IMO.






I have a feeling that age is the primary reason he was passed on 21 times before we took him..

As for the other stuff.. Weeden threw for a TON of yards and had a ton of completions and a pretty darn good completion %.. I don't really know of a QB (college or the pros) that doesn't loose a bit of accuracy when rushed. some do better than others, but each is gonna experience a bit of a drop under great pressure.

We've apparently made a decent attempt at building a solid line in front of him and put what is supposed to be the best RB since Peterson came out and he's supposed to be a blocking machine.

If all of that comes true, pressure won't be as big a problem,. hey, he's gonna get pressure.. all the time,, but it may not be as big an issue.


#GMSTRONG

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I've said it hundred times,there is only stat that is valid for o-linemen,the coaches grade.
All others are BS.
Contrary to my opinion of him,SL played well the last part of the season.I like our guards,well with the addition of Shwartz,I'm liking the whole line.Smashmouth football should be returning to Cleveland,at long last.


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I thought Pinkston improved nicely over the year, Lauvao not so much but if he can control the penalties, and have a solid RT beside him, hopefully he can improve. I think Mack is at least above average, and of course there's Joe. And now the Schwartz!

We are possibly looking at an OL that could be together for 5 years or more. With some possible starters as depth, not worn-out vets, and more youth coming.

Not sure about "elite", but usually those lines are ones that have all played together for a few years. IMO the OL, more than any other unit, benefits from the "gelling" effect that playing together brings. Each is so dependent on the other, one weak link breaks the whole chain. Five decent players who all know each other well can be a very good line.

Contemplating that we may really be at the start of that process actually makes me a bit light-headed.

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Contemplating that we may really be at the start of that process actually makes me a bit light-headed.




I think that you hit on a key fact and that is we are in the starting stages of building a 'complete' squad on the OL and I don't think what play we have seen from our young OG's is indicative of what their respective ceilings are either. I think that the experience that they gained by basically learning OTJ last year will pay dividends for this unit going forward.

To say that I am happy with the direction and emphasis we have placed on this unit would be an understatement. I am elated!

Not only have we drafted 5 starters on the OL, but we didn't stop there, because we also added depth with Miller who can I think can develop into a 6th man (OT/OG) if you will if not compete and push our young OG's for PT.

Heck it's almost as if they where reading and following my wishes

Btw did anyone else notice we gave Schwartz #72 (Ryan Tuckers #)


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candy....good stuff.

The Browns have drafted raw talent that needs to be developed by the coaching staff...primarily, the Oline coach, George Warhop.

Thomas and Mack can do their jobs and will require little of Warhop's attention. Lauvao was a 3rd round pick of the Browns in 2010 and was coached by Warhop in 2010. Lauvao's Browns bio for 2010 reads like this...

2010: Appeared in 10 games with one start at right guard… Was inactive for the first six contests with an ankle injury… Made NFL debut playing in a reserve role on offense at New Orleans (10/24)… Made first NFL start at Jacksonville (11/21).
web page

Lauvao also had to deal with ankle injury problems in 2010.

In 2011, Lauvao became the starter at RG and his performance was average (at best) as he again had to deal with ankle/knee injuries issues but played through them.

With two years experience in the NFL, why isn't Lauvao better than average?

Pinkston was forced into playing before he was ready and was asked to play a position he did not play in college. He has legitimate excuses for his average or below average performance in 2011.

There will be no excuses for Lauvao or Pinkston this season and the Browns drafted Ryan Miller OG/OT to drive the point home to Pinkston and Lauvao that the Browns were still looking for OGs in this draft. Also, if John Greco improves, he could take over at one of the OG positions.

Both Lauvao and Pinkston have competition for their starting jobs if they do not improve their performance to better than average.

Drafting Mitchell Schwartz to play the RT spot, addressed the last need to be filled on the Oline. Heckert drafted the talent for LG, RG and RT and Heckert is also responsible for the backup talent...and now it is up to George Warhop to develop this group into a Good or Very Good offensive line.

IMO, George Warhop is coaching for his job this season. If this Oline does not open the holes for Trent Richardson, allowing him to have a decent year running the ball... or if Weeden looks like McCoy, running for his life while trying to pass the football, it will be on Warhop.

No more excuses for poor offensive line play...



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Quote:

To say that I am happy with the direction and emphasis we have placed on this unit would be an understatement. I am elated!





Take a look at the last two drafts and you can see what Heckert is doing. Foundation players. something to build on. Trench players on D last year,, a little more with Hughes and Winn this year,

Some Key elements of the O this year. RB and QB, And the Schwartz at RT. Again,, trench and Key Elements..

It's gonna take a little more time, but on paper, I can't help feeling we are on the right track.


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The numbers don't lie. The Browns couldn't run the ball or create a consistant pocket last year.
Lavaou at best is a average RG. He struggles with smaller DT's He doesn't play up to his size. He lets d-lineman get their pad level lower than his too much.
His lateral agility is limited.
he gets flagged for false starts cause he's trying to get that advantage on the DT lined up across from him. Lavaou is slow coming out of his stance. He's lumbers.
the Browns porous offense in 2011 is a direct corralation of their o-line play,especially at the OG's.

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Lauvao was essentially a rookie last year.. played a little before, but Very little. he got better and absolutly deserves more time. Pinkston was a rookie.. not even a high round pick. He progressed rather nicely last season. I expect even more out of him this year. same with Lauvao.

Pashos is gone.. The Schwartz is with us..

As far as I'm concerned, the unknown is schwartz.. but all that I've read about him say,, he could be a beast at RT.. we'll see.


#GMSTRONG

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yeah anythings possible. They could blossom. But man the Browns o-line really struggles when they play the other AFC North teams.
I just noticed the Steelers and Bengals invested 1st RD draft picks at the OG's.
Lavaou wasn't as good as Zeitler or DeCastro in college.
The Browns are taking a huge gambling by thinking Lavaou is going to emerge into this Top 16 OG.
Pinkston progressed toward the end but I just didn't see Lavaou make that jump where you go "now we got a legit road grader"
I think the Browns should have gone the FA route and brought a vet in that could light a fire under Lavaou cause he needs it

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We will have a top 3 run blocking unit and a top 10 pass blocking unit. I think Swartz will fit right in and have no problems picking up the scheme. I am excited about this unit. I really liked what I saw from them last year but we didnt have players that could take advantage of the opportunities provided. The upgrades at RB and QB will help immensely as will the upgrade at RT.

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yeah anythings possible. They could blossom. But man the Browns o-line really struggles when they play the other AFC North teams.
I just noticed the Steelers and Bengals invested 1st RD draft picks at the OG's.
Lavaou wasn't as good as Zeitler or DeCastro in college.
The Browns are taking a huge gambling by thinking Lavaou is going to emerge into this Top 16 OG.
Pinkston progressed toward the end but I just didn't see Lavaou make that jump where you go "now we got a legit road grader"
I think the Browns should have gone the FA route and brought a vet in that could light a fire under Lavaou cause he needs it




Lavaou will be fine.. We don't have the luxury to draft a Guard in the 1st round.. We needed playmakers who get the ball and who can score.


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They could blossom. But man the Browns o-line really struggles when they play the other AFC North teams.




Thus the reason we invested in the Oline and a RB that can do it all this year


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Last year Mack was in a horrible position. he started the year with, essentially, rookies beside him on each side, and then a scrap heap RT.

Think of the position Lauvoa was put into. Under an ideal situation, Steinbach would have been the LG, creating a rock solid left side of the OL. Pashos would have been the RT from day 1. Mack would have been able to slide to help Lauvoa as needed. Lauvoa would have just had to worry about his spot.

Add in a QB who would hold the ball too long on many occasions and you have a recipe for disaster.

I think that Lauvoa will be the long term starter, but if he proves that he can't be, then that's why the Browns drafted Miller. They also have Greco, who was a promising Guard prospect when he was drafted. They have some depth, and some quality depth, for once.

I am excited about the OL we're building.


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Lauvao is fine, some just want to blame him instead of the RB's that couldnt see the big freaking holes he opened. We had one big problem with the OL last year and we filled it with Swartz.

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I shall answer this with a poem.

No.

Our guards are bad. All stats from ProFootballFocus.com

Starting off with Shaun Lauvao. He had an overall ranking of -8.5 (-1.8 Pass and -1.4 Run). His overall ranking (among G's with 50% playing time) were 41 overall, 40th in pass blocking, and 21st in Run blocking.

My first thing I see is the large amount of penalties that reduce his rating(11 total penalties) Where he ranks as the most penalized G in the league. Even if he would have broke even with the penalties, his rating would have jumped to -2.2, which would have ranked him around 30th in G's with 50% playing time.

He also tied for the most sacks allowed with 6. However, only allowed 3 QB hits and on the higher side with 18 pressures.


week 1-4
Sacks/hits/pressures allowed (1/2/5) - 8
2 total penalties
average overall rating of -1.07 (-.5 pass and -.4 run) Per game

week 6-9
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (2/1/3) - 6
3 total penalties
average overall rating of -0.9 ( -0.3 pass and -0.1) per game

week 10-13
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (3/0/3) - 6
3 total penalties
average overall rating of 0.125 (0.125 pass and 0.2 Run) per game

week 14-17
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/0/7) - 7
3 total penalties
average overall rating of -0.275 (0.225 pass and -0.05 run) per game

He had his best games against JAC and ARI where he had 3.4 and 4.5 overall ratings. His worst game was week 17 against the Steelers.


-Jason Pinkston-

He had an overall ranking of -19.5 (yes, thats a negative sign) with -5.3 in pass protection and -14.6 in run blocking. Those numbers rank him (again, among guards that played at least half the season) 53rd overall, 49th in pass, and 56th in run. He did have 4 Penalties to get ranked 26th among guards.

Pinkston was also had a league high 10 QB pressures. Also tied for 6th worst with 24 QB pressures. Was only credited with allowing 1 QB sack, though.

Week 1-4
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/3/ - 11
1 penalty total
average overall rating of -1.45 (-.625 pass and -1.02 run) per game

Week 6-9
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/3/5) - 8
2 Total penalties
average overall rating of -2.53 (-0.43 pass and -2.02 run) per game

Week 10-13
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (1/1/1) - 3
1 penalty
average overall rating of 0.125 (-0.375 pass and .575 run)

Week 14-17
Sacks/Hits/Pressures allowed (0/0/2) - 2
0 Penalties
Average overall rating of -1.02 (1.0 pass and -1.175 run)

He had a terrible, terrible stretch in the second quarter of the season.




This might mean something to me if I knew what I was looking at. I can't figure out what the scale even is, or how the averages are made.


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[Lauvao] gets flagged for false starts cause he's trying to get that advantage on the DT lined up across from him.




Lauvao got flagged for 4 false starts in 16 games. 2 fewer than Joe Thomas.

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candy....good stuff.

The Browns have drafted raw talent that needs to be developed by the coaching staff...primarily, the Oline coach, George Warhop.






Warhop is well-traveled and hasnt stuck much of anywhere...im not optimistic...(underlines are mine)

National Football League

Warhop was named the co-offensive line coach for the St. Louis Rams on February 8, 1996. In the 1997 NFL Draft the Rams took offensive tackle Orlando Pace with the first overall selection. Pace held out of training camp for three weeks to get a bigger contract, and Warhop was angry, stating that Pace "lost a good part of the year." In an attempt to speed up the playbook-learning process, Warhop was assigned as a special tutor for Pace.

Warhop was hired by the Arizona Cardinals as the offensive line coach on February 10, 1998. His contract expired at the conclusion of the 2002 season, and was not re-signed.

Warhop was hired by the Dallas Cowboys as their offensive line coach on January 16, 2003, following his tenure with the Cardinals. In 2003 and 2004 the Cowboys' offensive line only allowed 37 sacks, while in 2002, the year before Warhop was hired, they surrendered 54 sacks. After two seasons with the Cowboys, Warhop was fired on January 7, 2005. Shortly after he was fired, he interviewed for the Florida State Seminoles' offensive line coach position, but did not get the job.

On January 27, 2005, Warhop was hired by the San Francisco 49ers as the offensive line coach. In 2006 Warhop's offensive line allowed a league-worst 55 sacks, and the 49ers hired a second offensive line coach, Chris Foerster, to share the duties. Warhop was fired in-season on October 23, 2008 after his offensive line gave up a league-worst 29 sacks to that point.

Warhop was hired by the Cleveland Browns as their offensive line coach on February 4, 2009.

Warhop From Wiki


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Looking through Warhop's bio it seems like he's just a journeyman OL coach (notice he's never held any other higher position, which is quite telling).

He's coached at some impressive places obviously, but it seems like he hasn't had great success.


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Hard to say about the guy.

It would also be interesting to see how many times he made a change, the team he was with changed their head coach??

It's rare for asst coaches to stick with a new coach in town.


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That, and let's be logical about this...Warhop wouldn't have that many years in the league if he was a bum. Teams talk to each other and they know which coaches are solid and which one's are fake.

Our line won't be bad or good because of Warhop. Talent wins out over all. With his history of knowing the positions and how to coach them, it'll all be on the players to either perform well or fail.

as an aside, I believe all the talk about our line being "elite" is premature. We had arguably the worst starting guard tandem in the league last year. I know we lost Steiny to injury, but excusing the play of Pinky because he's a late-round rookie doesn't make his play any better. We've replaced our turnstyle RT's with a 2nd round rookie. There's no guarantee he's gonna be the answer. There's a bunch of question marks here. Until they show they can play, we remain a below-average line.

I believe that, just like the receiver and DE position, the organization didn't do enough this off-season. We had the money. We just didn't want to spend it. I get the rebuilding philosophy, but we could have still done that while adding another piece or two.

Here's hoping that the experience these poor guards got last year will help them elevate their games, and that our rookie RT is everything he's billed as being.


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Quote:

We will have a top 3 run blocking unit and a top 10 pass blocking unit.




mourg...a top 3 run blocking Oline...we can hope...you can dream...BUT...

Has Warhop ever coached an offensive line that made such a leap in performance/ranking?

The Browns rushing game (in total yards) ranked 28th in the NFL in 2011.

Another website, that breaks down various types of Oline blocking (power, 2nd level, open field), rates the Browns Oline as 23 best in the NFL in 2011.

The Browns pass blocking was average last season with a #16 rank...the chances of them improving from a #16 ranking to a top 10 pass blocking unit is a little more realistic, IMO.

Mourg...it does make everyone feel good when one makes such rosy predictions of success.

We shall see...


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It won't just be the OL doing a lot of things better but having a back with both initial burst and vision to take advantage of opportunity presenting itself.

We started the year with 3 new starters and communication was a major struggle early on. No one looked good including Mack and Joe Thomas. They improved as the season wore on as did our two young guards. The real issue was at RT.

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If Pinkston or Lauvao can step up and turn into a very good player I think you can talk about them being one of the best groups in the NFL, having TR33 in the backfield is going to make everyone better. I do think over the next few years we will probably add guys to that unit through the draft as we have been doing. I would still like to see us bring back Steinbach.

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I agree. Coaching in the NFL is a pretty small fraternity. If Shurmer didn't know Warhop from somewhere in the past, he probably knows 5 other coaches around the league who did.

Warhop wouldn't keep getting jobs if he sucked. He presents the info. In the end it is up to the blockers to be in position to make blocks.


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Quote:

Our line won't be bad or good because of Warhop. Talent wins out over all. With his history of knowing the positions and how to coach them, it'll all be on the players to either perform well or fail.





Toad...I disagree...it's not all on the players and is never that simple.

Coaches are the teachers and to dismiss Warhop's role as a teacher in the development of the offensive line unit and proclaim it's now on the players, sounds like you are giving him a pass for the foreseeable future, regardless of the performance turned in.

As the Browns Oline coach, Warhop's job as a teacher is at it's most critical point and he deserves to be judged according to the performance his guys turn in, week to week. This is not the time to give Warhop a pass...and IMO, the man is coaching for his job this season, depending on the performance the Oline unit turns in.

If Richardson and Weeden are not able to perform to their ability because the Oline is not opening holes for Richardson or giving Weeden the necessary time need to pass, Warhop will have to explain why his guys are not getting the job done.

For the sake of the team, I'm hoping Warhop is up to the task and turns in his best coaching performance...BUT, when I review Warhop's record as an Oline coach, I question his ability.

Not one time in Warhop's 16 yrs has he coached an offensive line that made large leaps in performance, such as improving 10 places. Warhop has never coached a top 10 performing offensive line in his NFL career, with 5 different teams.

Hoping for improvement that ranks the Browns Oline as better than average is a realistic goal for our young Oline.

The performance of the Browns offense does not fall on any one offensive coach, but Warhop is the coach most responsible for the performance of the Oline. He has been given the talent needed to develop a better than average Oline...now let's see if he can do it.

There are no more excuses for poor Oline play in Cleveland.




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Why did Shurmer hire him?


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Quote:

Coaches are the teachers and to dismiss Warhop's role as a teacher in the development of the offensive line unit and proclaim it's now on the players, sounds like you are giving him a pass for the foreseeable future, regardless of the performance turned in.


To a certain degree, I am.

He's been in the league for YEARS. Furthermore, it's not as though he would get hired, stay for one year and completely suck, get fired, then hired again the very next year, only to get fired after one season again. He has a long history in the league. He wouldn't still be an O-line coach if he didn't know his .. That means, IMHO, that he's virtually a lock to do a good job, leading to the ultimate conclusion that it's on the players to perform.

Quote:

There are no more excuses for poor Oline play in Cleveland.




The "excuse" from last year was as follows:

Our guards both sucked and our right tackle(s) sucked as well.

Too many people are just making the leap of faith that our guards are going to suddenly have the light come on, when the truth is that there's absolutely zero evidence to present which can make any one person say "Those two guards have some amazing upside after the showing they made last year."

There's a very real chance that the Browns are asking Warhop to make chicken salad out of chicken ., optimism be damned.

Look, I'm of the opinion that our rookie RT probably stands a good chance of making it. However, I fail to share the optimism on the guards. If they play slightly better than they did last year, they will still have stunk up the joint, and the line will not have had a good year.

We know what we've got in Thomas and Mack. We are less sure at the RT position but we have a guy who shows real promise. The guards? We as a fan-base appear to be taking the route of wishful-thinking with them, and kinda hoping/assuming they are going to make great leaps forward. Will they? It's certainly possible, but the pure facts are that they played very poorly last year. It's hard to embrace blind optimism.


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Quote:

It won't just be the OL doing a lot of things better but having a back with both initial burst and vision to take advantage of opportunity presenting itself.





mourg...I wonder how long it will take for Browns fans to realize, Richardson is just like any other back who has played in the NFL...if he is going to be successful his offensive line must block well for him, opening holes first at the LOS and then at the 2nd level.

You seem to be of the opinion that the Browns Oline did a good job of run blocking last season...but the stats do not back you up as the Browns total rushing yds ranked the Browns 28th in the NFL and their yds per attempt ranked 31 out of the 32 teams.

I'm not putting it all on the Oline or all on the RBs because the reality is, it was both the poor blocking by the Oline and the subpar performance by our RBs.

I'm a firm believer that the offensive line is most responsible for the performance of a team's offense.
...if the offensive line is doing a good job of run blocking, the RBs will perform well.
...if the Oline protects their QB, the QB and receivers will perform well.
...if the Browns Oline can do both, run block and pass block well, they will score.
...also, the offense is going to control the ball and time of position, which allows the defense time to rest.

The importance of the offensive line in football cannot be overstated.


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Why did Shurmer hire him?




Actually Mangini hired him. Shurmur just kept him.


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Quote:

We as a fan-base appear to be taking the route of wishful-thinking with them


You know I think a part of that comes with the release of Steinbach...I mean if the FO has enough confidence in the 2 guys we have to let him go....then maybe we should have a little more faith...does that mean we buy in and drink the kool-aide....no...but I seem to think having a year under their belt is going to help them...Having both sides of them being solid should be a big help to each of them...

I mean look at last year...Lavauo had a shaky RT beside him...granted Pashos played through a lot of pain and I give him props....but he was shaky...but his shakiness ripples throughout the line...Lavauo's inexpereince combined with the shaky RT was a bad combo...which lead to Mack trying to compensate...when Mack compensates it puts him out of position and puts Pinkston, also with his own issues, into trouble....So Mack tries to compensate for Pinkston too...now not only is Mack out of position but a little slow because he is trying to figure out who needs compensated for on any given play....JT is also trying to compensate as well as trying to deal with the likes of Harrison, Freeny, and some of the best pass rushers in the league...

But solidifying the RT allows the Guards in both spots to focus on their own specific tasks and not worry about people being out of position...and it allows our strengths..T and C...to be the foundations they were meant to be...coverage only when needed and not a safety net for the Guards for every single play....

Is the light going to come on...maybe....maybe not...but I do happen to think this line has a lot of potential with the addition of our new RT....even with our Guards....


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