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I'm sure that the offense was hurt more than the defense.
Jauron runs a very simple defense. Rob Ryan ran a very elaborate defense. Jauron's defense is more "line up and play". That's why I'm not worried if a rookie like JMJ has to play in the first 3 games in place of Fujita. (and hopefully for the rest of the season)
However, the offense never seemed to hit its stride ...... ever. We scored 5 or 6 meaningless TDs at the very end of games. We only scored 21 TDs on the entire season, so that's a remarkably poor showing when games were actually contested.
I do think that the defense was somewhat overrated because of the way the offense played. Opposing offenses felt no need to take chances in order to beat us. Score 17 points and you pretty much have the win.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I wonder how Weeden would have done if he was on that 2011 team?
Holmgren and Heckert did not attempt to put the best team around McCoy in 2011.
It makes no difference. McCoy lacks the consistency to hit WR's in stride. He lacks the arm strength to stretch the field. Putting better weapons around him will not improve "his skill set".
You don't build a skyscaper on a weak foundation. The reason Weeden was drafted was based on Colt's ability as an NFL starting QB in regards to his skill set.
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maybe they figured if we surround a mid RD 3rd pick,with players that are void of good to great talent then the results will speak for themselves. They would be a in a position to draft a QB in the 1st RD in 2012.
They were building a defense their first two years and made their major early draft investments on the D. Afterwords, they took a flyer on a QB that if he panned out, would save them a high pick later to address the position. If he didn't, it was the 85th pick in the draft so everyone is somewhat of a project at that point anyway. Low risk/ possible high reward scenario. Colt didn't develop and lacked some major components to his game, so they moved on.
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Its evident Holmgren and Heckert were not trying to win in 2011.
It's evident that in the first two drafts they spendt the major draft investment on the D. In this years draft, they started building the O. If you have some sour grapes about that, then so be it. But all you have to do is look at the 2010 and 2011 drafts to see they were building the D first. So you needn't just make things up....
JMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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its not a hate thing..but you wonder if they were really trying to win in 2011. and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this?
No, there are a lot of people who can't see the forest for the trees. Let me pose something to you........
Let's say Holmgrean and Heckert had built an offense during their first two drafts? Now firstly, they had no D or O to speak of when they got here. It was a complete team re-build.
Firstly, Colt would never have been here in the first place because they would have drafted a QB high. In their first two drafts they assembeled a D that gave up the fifth fewest points in the NFL last year. So what if they had made the O priority number one?
If they had assembled a pretty good offense first without much of a D, we may have been 6-10, 7-9 or something to that effect. So where would that have left us drafting when trying to build the defense? Would we be drafting top 5 players this year on D had they built the O first?
When you build a team, you look and think big picture.
They made their major investments on the D side first. I feel they did a very good job there. They drafted O as a secondary measure. As such, they took a flyer on an undersized QB and an often injured RB in hopes they may pan out. If they did, when it came time to build the O, some major positions would have been filled already giving them a lot of flexability and a head start on building that O.
So they had a choice. Either build the D first so while wins may not come quickly, as far as building a team goes, they would most likely be drafting high when it came time to build the O. During that time they took later picks in hopes they would have a head start when it came time to build an O.
Now if you somehow see that as them "not trying to win last year", that's your perrogative. But then, if they hadn't given colt all of last year to see if he even had the skill set to be a starting QB, people would have whined about that too.
They are building this team for the long haul. They are building it in a way that sets this team up for the best possible scenario to try to to be a successful franchise for a long period of time.
If people wish to break it down to one season, or to one draft, they lose sight of the long term goal of this FO. They will pick apart single issues and miss the big picture. And yes, some choose to do that. But IMO, addressing the D first was the smart way to do it.
Because I wouldn't want to have seen us playing 8-8 football last year with a decent offense, and now be trying to build a defense drafting at #13=#18 in the draft.
Instead, we have a top 10 rated defense that gave up the 5th fewest points in the NFL last year and drafted at #4 and #22 when it came time to build the O. Somehow, when you quit looking at a single season, at look at the big picture results of their startegy, it looks like a pretty smart path to follow if you ask me.....
So yes, they could have built a team that may have been 8-8 last year. And now, we would have no defense still and drafting mid=pack in an uphill battle trying to build the D. A big gamble that easily could have had us stuck in mediocrity for years to come....
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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2nd String
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All I've got to say is this:
Heckert and Co deserve at least another 3 years based on what they've shown us. However, they have not translated to wins just yet, but I believe they will be coming soon.
Before Heckert and Co arrived, our Defense consistently sucked, while being ranked in the bottom 10 of the NFL year after year.
With all of the investments we've made on defense over the past two years, and the "MAJOR HITS" we've had on our 1st Rounders, which we all know are by far the most important picks in our drafts, Heckert and Co has built a very respectable defense. We were a top 10 defense last year, despite still unable to stop the run. They'll get that fixed.
So, now if Heckert and Co can invest on offense over this years and next years draft, we should be sitting in pretty good shape assuming the team progresses they way they should.
So, it could be argued we have invested heavily in this years draft (RB, QB, and RT) in the top 37 picks. So, if all 3 picks pan out, we'll have a solid foundation on offense.
Heckert has done a great job filling this roster with DRAFT PICKS of his choice instead of the cast offs from other teams (ie Mangini era).
I'd say after 3 more Years, (2012-2014) Season, if we haven't started to win by then, it's time to reevaluate what went wrong and make changes where needed.
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I would have built the offense 1st.This is a offensive driven league. Heckert and Holmgren for everything they have put into the defense,its not as good as their rankings stated. It's not a elite defense. It's lacking a run stopper,pass rusher players in the secondary that can put fear in skill players and take the ball away.
Most of the teams they played last year were comitted to running the football.
look at who they faced on the schedule..almost half those QB's are looking for work,now or back to holding the clipboard. Collins,Henne,Campbell, Skelton,Whitehurst
then they played injured QB's who they couldn't finish off. Rothlisberger, Bradford beat the Browns on 1-leg.
you can build a defense drafting 13-18...ask the Ravens,Steelers,Packers,Giants.
the Browns would have been farther ahead building the offense 1st.
which is ironic because Holmgren has a offensive background.
football has evolved to the point where offenses dominate,not defenses.
and the Browns still have one of the worst offenses in spite of drafting Weeden and TRich.
Its alot harder to win with a pathetic offense than it is with a average or so so defense.
give me the high powered offense and average defense and I will get farther.
I give Jauron credit,he did a good job with a defense that really did nothing outstanding in any facet other than red zone defense.
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Legend
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Quote:
I would have built the offense 1st.This is a offensive driven league. Heckert and Holmgren for everything they have put into the defense,its not as good as their rankings stated. It's not a elite defense. It's lacking a run stopper,pass rusher players in the secondary that can put fear in skill players and take the ball away.
Yeah, Sheard only had 8.5 sacks last year. He must suck! LOL And since these players have two years experience or less, they will only get better. You do understand that young players do develop and get better with experience, right? And what possible fact based information do you have to base this on?......"its not as good as their rankings stated." As of Dec. last year we were ranked first against the pass and ended the season I think 5th against the pass.
Now you just keep saying and believeing the things you are saying with nothing to support that. Are we elite? No. Is our D very young, developing and will only keep getting better? Yes.
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Most of the teams they played last year were comitted to running the football.
look at who they faced on the schedule..almost half those QB's are looking for work,now or back to holding the clipboard. Collins,Henne,Campbell, Skelton,Whitehurst
then they played injured QB's who they couldn't finish off. Rothlisberger, Bradford beat the Browns on 1-leg.
you can build a defense drafting 13-18...ask the Ravens,Steelers,Packers,Giants.
the Browns would have been farther ahead building the offense 1st.
Ahead how? We would have been trying to build a defense now with much lower draft picks and stuck in mediocrity because of it. Like I said, you simply don't see things big picture. That "win now and don't think about what's best for the future" is why you think this way. Had we built the O first, we wouldn't have had three picks in the top 37 to build the O with now.
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which is ironic because Holmgren has a offensive background.
football has evolved to the point where offenses dominate,not defenses.
and the Browns still have one of the worst offenses in spite of drafting Weeden and TRich
Looking into your crystal balls again? You have no ydea if that's true so quit pretending you do. On one hand you say Holmgren is offensive minded, then turn around and indicate we will be bad on offense now that he's addressing it. Holgren knows if he had went offense first, we wouldn't have had the picks to go offense now. He has builty teams before so sorry if I can see, and understand what he's doing here in building this team while you simply don't.
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Its alot harder to win with a pathetic offense than it is with a average or so so defense.
give me the high powered offense and average defense and I will get farther.
And we are building that offense now. We just didn't do it "the way you think we should have". And everything points to, shows and indicates that your trashing of our defense is dead wrong. They are a solid D and very young. They will only get better but it appears you lack the comprehension that first and second year players are still developing. Not my fault you can't see the forest for the trees.
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I give Jauron credit,he did a good job with a defense that really did nothing outstanding in any facet other than red zone defense.
Yeah it was Juaron out there making those plays. How could I have forgotten that? You wish to diminish and understate exactly what our D did accomplish just to suit your own agenda. Yes people ran on us, but how did that work out when you look at the fact we were fifth in total points allowed? Oh that's right, it didn't happen or it's misleading, or, it was Juarons coaching, not the players who accomplished it.
Yes, stopping teams in the red zone to keep them from scoring is a bad thing. No, wait a minute, stopping the other team from scoring.....isn't that exactly the very goal of your defense?
Dude, even your own words make no sense at all.....
Do you know how silly you sound trying to undermine our D's accomplishments?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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stuck in mediocrity.....what they are stuck in now..its less than mediorce.
you still avoid the fact that in 2011 the Browns defense faced the most lethargic mix of QB's you ever see on a schedule. You think Charlie Whitehurst was gonna throw it 40 times from 3-4 WR's vs the Browns. No..they ran Forsett and Washington,2 career backups.
the opening game it couldn't stop from Dalton and a career stiff like Gradkowski from beating them.
and when the Browns faced a actual QB with some savy and a actual track record(Hasselbeck) he carved them up.
and then when they played the Bengals again,the Browns great secondary couldn't stop Dalton again when they had to.
any pass defense will look good when teams can run the ball on you and get the same results.
the Browns pass defense numbers were based on the fact that their run defense was the same Browns run defense we have seen year after year. Pathetic.it was a result of playing career backups for the most part outside the division in 2011.
outside of Sheard who is a capable pass rusher on the Browns....no one!
what Browns LB can cover TE's?
who is the ball hawk in the secondary?
how many 100 yard games did the run defense give up to opposing RB's in 2011?
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I would have built the offense 1st.This is a offensive driven league
This is a valid point and one I have thought about too...I would have built the Offense 1st too, but there just never was a chance at a QB where we picked to built an Offense around, so that might have pushed them towards fixing the D 1st
Sure, the D isn't dominant but H&H only inherited Rubin and Dqwell as building blocks, so you don't "built" a Top 10 D with 2 drafts....for an incredibly young D it is a compliment and sign of things to come when they're league AVG...and we were that easily last season....and in the midst of a system switch to boot, it's rare to see this kind of improvement from a young group
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I would have built the offense 1st.This is a offensive driven league
This is a valid point and one I have thought about too...I would have built the Offense 1st too, but there just never was a chance at a QB where we picked to built an Offense around, so that might have pushed them towards fixing the D 1st
Sure, the D isn't dominant but H&H only inherited Rubin and Dqwell as building blocks, so you don't "built" a Top 10 D with 2 drafts....for an incredibly young D it is a compliment and sign of things to come when they're league AVG...and we were that easily last season....and in the midst of a system switch to boot, it's rare to see this kind of improvement from a young group
I don't think there is only "ONE" Formula that would work,.. if the guys you like happen to be on D and you need to improve the D,, that's what you do.
Just a guess.. but that's how I'd handle it.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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sometimes the best defense is a offense.
If you can build a offense that can put points up on the board and control the TOP,it works in your defenses favor.
your defense isn't burned out by the 3rd quarter.
you can draft all the defense you want in the upper RDS,but on the other side of the ball you got stiffs like Pashos, Marecic, Robiskie and Massaqiou and scoring 13 pts a game,then it ends up hurting whatever investments you put in the defense.
sorry but drafting guys like Jordan Cameron and Montario Hardesty is not a recipie for a offense that can light up a scoreboard.
and for all the work that has gone into the defense,it still has to many question marks and "ifs" I think it has too much unproven youth and the vets it does have they basically are average at best.....Fujita,Parker, Brown,Rucker....
really much elite talent is on that defense?
If you did a All-AFC North defense..how many Browns would be on it?
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Dawg Talker
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Your eyes must be on the back of your head, because everything you say is based on hindsight. If this team drafted all offense for two years, I would gaurantee you that your comments would be reversed. You act as if you know it all, and constantly choose the easiest things to complain about and act as if you got all the answers.
You are entitled to your opinion, but so am I and others. So IMO you would look for something to complain about no matter what happens. When you first appeared on this board I thought you were just a troll. Now time has past, and my feelings haven't moved much.
Anybody can look back at mistakes and things they don't agree with and spout off the way you do. But, those who really have some sense of a clue, try to use some reasoning in their arguments. You definately do not fit that mold.
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the Browns are 9-23 the last 2 years.I have alot of complain about.until I see AFC North wins and 8-8 at the very least,I will gripe.
IMO the the Browns should have been drafting more toward the offense in the last couple years.
this isn't the 70's and 80's and 90's where you can get by on a average offense and jackhammer defense.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
this isn't the 70's and 80's and 90's where you can get by on a average offense and jackhammer defense.
Tell that to the Steelers. Their offense , besides Ben has been nothing but average for a few years now.
To think you can win in this league without a good defense is ludicrous. Look what happened to Green Bay last year. They made the playoffs, but their 31st ranked defense took them out of it.
You can have a fantastic offense, but if you can't stop the other team it is all moot.
As good as Eli played in clutch situations, the Giants defense played a huge role in their success.
Cinci's defense carried them to a decent season.
To be a champion, you must be good on both sides of the ball, period.
Last edited by eryze19akaBT58; 05/28/12 02:15 PM.
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Quote:
sometimes the best defense is a offense.
No doubt, but there is no sense worrying about it.
I think it is pretty clear the D was the better unit when Heckert arrived, so I don't disagree a bit with him building on that first. For the most part it did what was intended, keep us in games and give us a shot.
Now, we are addressing the O...maybe we can start winning some of those games we have lost by a few points.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
the Browns are 9-23 the last 2 years.I have alot of complain about.until I see AFC North wins and 8-8 at the very least,I will gripe.
IMO the the Browns should have been drafting more toward the offense in the last couple years.
this isn't the 70's and 80's and 90's where you can get by on a average offense and jackhammer defense.
Your way would have insured that we didn't have three picks in the draft this year in the top 37 picks. Your way is the "win now" and don't have the picks to build well going forward.
Had we have done as you suggested, we would be drafting mid pack at best with no chance at top rated talent this year with a totally putrid D.
Instead, we built a very reliable D and were in the perfect position to draft high in all three drafts.
Short sightedness is not becoming and is not a successful way to go about building a franchise for the long haul. That's why we have people in charge that understand the strategy to build a team. People who understand that if you build a great D first, it may not equate to wins right away, but what it does do is is put you in great position to draft high when you are ready to build the offense..Yes, the microwave generation feels that everything can be done in three minutes or less like popcorn.
To do it right, you must be able to draft high for as long as possible to get the best talent on both sides of the ball. If you can't see that, don't blame me.
I'm glad that we now have the tools to score more points and a defense that can help keep us in games at the same time. Your scenario wouldn't have accomplished that. But you seem to think you know so much different. You don't.
Having the abilty to draft as highly as we did this year, having two picks in the first round, NEVER would have happened had we given up a ton of picks to move up for a QB in prior years. A lot of the high picks used to build this team would have been traded away under youe scenario.
The best team is a balanced team. Not a one demisional team. Sorry that just won't sink in with you.
Last edited by PitDAWG; 05/28/12 03:02 PM.
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the Browns were a no dimension team last year. Now its one dimensional with TRich and 29 year old rookie at QB.
if the Browns want to show progress,then it will to leap frog somehow over the Bengals,Steelers and Ravens.
finishing in 4th again is not progress..whether its 5-11 or 6-10.
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I don't know why you think you can explain anything to this guy. He is short sighted and IMO a tad arrogant in his thinking. If we would have sold the farm for a franchise QB, who would it have been out of the previous two drafts? Sanchez? Cam Newton? To get either of these guys, we still would have the same WRs that he bashes endlessly. We would still not have a RB, unless Hillis wouldn't have stumbled. So, for the life of me I can't see where he is getting that we could have built this awesome offense. If we possibly could have, they would have to be able to score at will, because our defense hasn't stopped anybody for a decade. As I said before, he is all about hindsight. I will laugh my arse off if Hardesty improves this year and guys like Norwood and MoMass become productive. I would like to see the tea leaves he is reading, since he is so sure of himself. Maybe they aren't "tea" leaves after all....you know what I mean 
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You don't know that Ken......you think you do.
Let's wait for 5-6 games of the season to be played, and really, that's early.
What exactly is your point?? Is it that Richardson was a lousy pick and/or we should have stuck with McCoy?
I'd say you are wrong on both counts.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'm not arrogant at all. I just don't agree with the way the Holmgren and Heckert have put this thing together.
I'm in the minority.Could care less. If you can put up 26 to 30 pts a game,you put pressure on the other team to keep up.
you talk about not having a RB if you trade the farm for a franchise QB?
weren't the Browns prepared to give the farm to get RG3?
You can find a RB anywhere...3rd RD, 7th RD,undrafted FA. RB's now are complimentry pieces to a offense. Most teams run a tandem at RB anyhow.
what great additions on defense via the draft/FA has made this defense so feared and up and coming.....
Joe Haden...he's very good. Not great.He's not a shutdown CB yet.
Jabaal Sheard...8.5 sacks is a start. But I didn't see enough QB hits or pressures
Eric Hagg....next
Phil Taylor..disappered in the last 8 games. Wasn't the run stopper that many expected and rarely flushed the QB out of the pocket.
Sheldon Brown has seen better days with the Eagles
Scott Fujita was over the hill when he got here
Chris Gocong is overrated
The Browns 2 best defenders were already here when Holmgren got here.
they had nothing on offense going for it.
does anyone realize the only consistent thing in Cleveland when H and H arrived was the constant change at QB and a offense that rarely scored over 20 pts a game.
when they arrived finding that franchise QB should have been priority number 1.
me bashing the WR's? you bet. They are the worst group in the NFL.
I said it last year and it remains the same this year.
buy hey you guys believe anything H and H tell you.
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It's just timing Ken.
As I said earlier, the D was the strength of the team when Heck took over. It was the closest to being decent, so it made sense to keep building that way.
The thing to be said about D.....it doesn't have as many slumps or bad days as can a O.
I have no problem with the way we are building it.....though I agree, 6-7 wins won't be good in my book.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't think TRich was a lousy pick. but its alot easier to defense a offense that is built around a RB than it is a QB with a couple stud WR's or a combo of WR/TE's.
A WR/TE/QB trifecta puts so much pressure on the defense. It causes then to overthink their assignments.
how did the Vikings do when Peterson was healthy....how about the Jags with MJD?
the Vikes were 2-10 with Peterson.
9 of the top 15 RB's in 2011,their teams did not make the playoffs.
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So it is the lack of the Blackmon pick???
Ok....had the Browns had a better QB, we might have gone for Blackmon.
Just remember, when we passed Blackmon for Richadson the only given was Colt was our QB. At that point you can't assume we would have been able to get Weeden.
It worked out that way, but when we were picking at #3, we couldn't assume we would be able to upgrade the QB position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
weren't the Browns prepared to give the farm to get RG3?
I've said this once, and I'll say it again....We were NOT going to sell the farm for RG3 or anybody else. Follow the bread crumbs. The media questioned why the Browns seemed distant and uninterested in talks with the Rams. The Rams, knowing that they weren't going to get the "coup" they were looking for with just the "skins" bidding, started making calls. (this is only IMO) but right after the media reports, all of a sudden the Browns were talking to the Rams. Heckert also said that the #22 was not on the table. He was firm about that. Then you started hearing about how up-set the fans were and the Browns needed to do something.
Hear I think more calls were made and a few backs slapped, cause now all of a sudden the 'Skins, had competition. I think Shurmer's relationship with the Rams played into that. The Ram's wanted alot more than they were going to get, so, this was perfect for both clubs, the Browns could calm the fans and look like they were going after the next boy-toy and the Skin's get taken to the cleaners.
If you followed the off-season, then you just knew, between what Heckert was saying and the Rams wondering why nobody else was really interested.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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The RG3 thing was one of the more mind-boggling in awhile, IMO, as far as posters cringing at the fact that we *DIDN'T* offer more than Washington.
I'm not sold on Weeden, but man, that's a far better scenario than selling the farm for RG3.
SO glad we didn't make that blunder. Even if RG3 exceeds my expectations ... we'd have resigned ourselves to 8-8 football until H&H were canned.
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I don't think H&H were ga-ga over RG3. When the off season started we had to be goaded into even talking with the Rams. It seems funny that it all started when the media started harping on the Browns and talking to some season tkt. holders and then some fans talking on the Radio. I think this worked out for both clubs as I said before. The way Heck wants to build thru the draft and do it right, RG3 was not how they have been going about business.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Rookie LDE with 8.5 sacks and its a start. Thanks, I needed a good laugh and well your posts are good for something. Coach Ken maybe you can ask one of your inside sources to explain football to you.
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Yeah, that was funny....he should look up how many 2nd round DL put up those stats. His constant Taylor bashing is laughable at best too....remember when he was underwhelmed with his numbers and then I showed him that Taylor's numbers were Top 5 in both tackles and sacks for ANY DT? Strangely he didn't respond, but to still come back with this BS is at least being consistently ignorant...he also must have missed the Steelers game where Taylor and Rubin owned the overrated Pouncey and his pals and were in Roethli's face all game long
Also Kendall, you should look up other team's drafts too...you are quick to call out Heckert for mid round "busts" like Hardesty (we invested a 3rd and 2x5th for him) and Cameron (who is far from being a bust yet, but that's another story you won't get)...I can give you a handful of 3rd to 5th round bust from the Steelers, Ravens etc....fact is and remains: Heckert hasn't blown a Top 50 selection in 2 drafts
If you didn't see see improvement in the D, being young and in the middle of a system switch, well then your just here to rant
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
I'm not arrogant at all. I just don't agree with the way the Holmgren and Heckert have put this thing together.
I'm in the minority.Could care less. If you can put up 26 to 30 pts a game,you put pressure on the other team to keep up.
Then oh wise one, look back at the 2010 and 2011 drafts, where we picked in thise drafts and explain how you would have done it. Who would you have drafted and how our team would look now. Since you have the answers of what we should have done, let's here it.
I don;t think you can because I don't think it could have been done given who was on the board when we picked and what we would of had to have given up to move up in the draft to get this "star studded offense" you soeak of.
Your generalizations mean nothing unless you can show us exactly how they could have done what you claim they should have done. So, Mr. GM who is smarter than our FO, show us what you would have done.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Then oh wise one, look back at the 2010 and 2011 drafts, where we picked in thise drafts and explain how you would have done it. Who would you have drafted and how our team would look now. Since you have the answers of what we should have done, let's here it.
That's all he ever does.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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1st String
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Quote:
If you can put up 26 to 30 pts a game,you put pressure on the other team to keep up.
lmao.....some of your arguments are like origami....for someone that continuously claims to be connected, you have nothing but a pure fans outlook on football. your ideas only work in a vacuum.
for instance, this little gem above. instant classic....such a myopic contention has to be made under the pretense that our defense could keep a team under that amount of points....and as your argument states, had we gone offense in those 2 drafts, where would our defense be ranked? all youre effectively saying would be trading low-scoring physical games for high-flying shootouts. no where in there is winning more guaranteed in one scenario or the other....maybe in your head, but not in reality.
where you are wrong is that there's actually more than one approach. we're just not taking the one you prefer. you THINK it would because you see other teams doing it this way or that way....but truth is teams follow different models. you dont have to denegrate everyone you dont like because you dont like the direction. if you were as football smart as you think you are, you'd realize how much you DONT know and realize a couple things....
there is more than one way to build a team, and SOME of that is dependent on which players in FA and the draft are available AT THAT TIME.
just because someone plays in the league a few years does not make them a definitive authority on football.
exaggerating the severity of the situation really does make you look sour. its akin to a child pouting in the corner when they are put on time out.
everyone has their opinions, me as well. most people get it that as fans, we are not privy to the amount of intel those that get PAID to make decisions have. so you know a sports announcer? i live a few blocks from jason gildon....i guess i could go ask him what he thinks...like its relevant somehow. where it gets silly is when folks like you think their opinion is that gospel, and decide to take over topics because you need to scream at the top of your lungs.....
why?
because all your genius ideas occur without any regard to the situation or circumstance. "build the offense first, even if the defensive player talent is better and we must reach on every pick. just so its on offense, it doesn't matter".
then picks would start busting, and guess who'd be lining up to crucify H&H for reaching.....
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Quote:
If you can put up 26 to 30 pts a game,you put pressure on the other team to keep up.
Wow .... so all we have to do to "put pressure on the other team to keep up" is to have a top 4 or 5 scoring offense? Really? That's all?  Yep .... just score between 416 and 480 points on the year and you should be able to outscore the opposition. Heck, just go for 35 and almost no one will be able to keep up. Hit 40 per game and no one will stand a chance.
You have talked in circles around circles in this thread. You said that you didn't feel that McCoy got enough of a shot in 21 starts. How many more starts should he had received?
You say that he was a wasted pick, yet you feel that we should have surrounded him with more weapons? You want a top 5 scoring offense, but McCoy is a game manager type QB. Those aren't the type of QB to throw 26 points on the board week in and week out.
You complain that the team didn't concentrate on offense at all, yet in this draft the took a RB, QB, RT, WR, G, and H-Back type. That's a pretty heavy commitment to the offense.
Further, Dick Jauron runs a very easy defense for players to learn. It's not the Rob Ryan, know 20 different functions and responsibilities for any offensive eventuality. It is, by far, more of a "line up and play" defense. Doesn't it make sense to add players to the defensive side of the ball in a year where there was no training camp under those conditions? Further, given that we had only 2 starting quality DL going into last year, (really only 1 as things turned out) didn't it make sense to apply resources to the DL?
Honestly, I cannot follow what you want the front office to have done.
If you were the front office, in 2010, after firing Mangini, what shape would the 2011 and 2012 drafts have taken if you'd been in charge?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't agree with the current method cause it isn't equating to wins or even a good product on the field.
That 2010 Draft IMO is close to becoming a total failure.
Outside of Haden,who is a sure thing on the roster out of that draft?
T.J Ward had a history of injuries. He can play in the box and hit but he can't cover.
how many games did he play in 2011?
Heckert gave up 3 picks to select another injury prone player in Hardesty.
think about it for a second,gave up 3 picks for a guy that is a backup.
McCoy in the eyes of the franchise and many people is a failure.
so now after 2 years 2 of your 1st 3 picks in the draft are now backups while other teams are getting more production out of their 3rd picks.
Heck Joe Haden isn't even the best CB in that draft. It might be Devin McCourty.Geathers,Asante were blown draft picks and Mitchell is only on the roster cause his size is intriquing. Lavaou has more excuses made for him than pancake blocks
the Browns could have had a Rob Gronkowski,Dez Bryant and Devin McCourty in this draft.any 2 of those of 3.
in fact the Browns between their 2009 and 2010 Drafts have gotten very very little out of it. you how they say you grade a draft 3 years after the fact..well the 2009 Draft is a F. That 2010 Draft Class has to show something now.
the 2011 Draft is a mixed bag. Taylor cooled off,now he's on the IR. Little has promise.but lacks some things to be a true #1.
Sheard did good in his transition to LDE. But Marecic showed nothing as did Cameron. Pinkston had his struggles starting. Eric Hagg is a ?
now you throw in the fact that Holmgren and Heckert did very little in FA.
Jacqua Parker and Frostee Rucker don't impress me.
Parker is undersized and him and Weeden are a combined 64 years old.
Rucker had one productive year in Cincy cause the Bengals interior d-line can get after it.
right now the Browns have a lack of depth in too many places. thats where not bringing in some FA's can hurt you.
why is it after 3 years the Browns are yet again drafting RB,FB,and QB again,yet not address the WR position other than Benjamin?
cause the front office realized that drafting Hardesty,McCoy and Marecic were mistakes? how many other NFL teams have followed that template?
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When has he ever made one single positive post about a player or coach other than Colt and not taken a swipe at that player. If a steeler fan came on here and talked as much crap about this team, he would be banned for Trolling. He is a Texas Troll.
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Quote:
Heck Joe Haden isn't even the best CB in that draft. It might be Devin McCourty
put me down for a 
man, if your posts didn't come off so abrasive, you'd be in the running with TL.
#gmstrong
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True I think McCoy needed more than 21 starts and some more legit NFL talent around him. But I can say he's a wasted pick from the viewpoint that he's now regulated to a backup role here.
my issue with this current regime is that they are getting alot from the 3rd RD picks and back.
if the Browns want to be a playoff team,they have to get something out of their picks outside the 2nd RD.(and Ward needs to be a more complete saftey)
all the other AFC North teams are getting dividends from their mid RD picks.
whats the common thread..they made the playoffs in 2011.
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whats so positive about 9-23 and now your playing a schedule thats loaded with some upper echlon QB's.
I'm not going to be positive for just the sake of being positive.
I want results. not 3 years from now,or 2.
the future is now.
and if this franchise goes 5-11.3-13 this year,alot more people will feel how I do.
you guys think because Heckert and Holmgren have had success elsewhere its a slamdunk here.
No its not.
are you prepared to see another last place AFC North finish? Anyone?
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I want results. not 3 years from now,or 2.
the future is now.
Everybody is entitled to want whatever they want...
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you guys think because Heckert and Holmgren have had success elsewhere its a slamdunk here.
No its not.
Nope, nothing is guaranteed.. well almost nothing. If we replace the FO and the coaching staff, we are almost guaranteed to suck for at least a few more years.
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are you prepared to see another last place AFC North finish? Anyone?
We could have finished 8-8 and still been in last place last year... do I want another last place finish? No. What I do not want is another 0-6 in the division.. that to me, is a leading indicator of how we are doing.
yebat' Putin
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I have more concerns about this team than most.But because I'm not drinking the "Kool-Aid" you get chastised. Thats fine. if we all thought the same,it would be a boring world.
my concerns are this.
1. Brandon Weeden. At 29,has he already peaked as a QB? Can he get better?
can he be broken of his bad habits..fails to see blitzers making him vunerable to backside pressure. When he gets pressured he tends to throw it down the middle.
2. The WR's. Weeden has no one on this team that has Blackmons skill set.
they have WR's that are either big or fast..but not both. Their fast guys are undersized. Their bigger WR's are not fast. Cribbs and Massaqiou have shown what they are.Average.
3. The TE's. Watson's best days are gone. Jordan Cameron wasn't even the best TE on his USC team. He's a project. Evan Moore is this regimes Ben Gay. A fan favorite yet isn't good enough to be a featured piece of the offense
4.No pass rushing threat from the RDE spot. Rucker and Parker don't strike fear into any LT's.
5. The CB's are undersized.
6. Coverage skills of the safeties. Young sucks plain and simple. Not bringing in a FA may backfire. What has Eric Hagg showed that he can handle being a starter?
7.The interior d-line is very young outside of Rubin.
8.Depth all around..if someone gets hurt,then its up to some unproven rookie to step in.
if Gocong gets hurt,then its up to Acho to anchor that spot. OLB is a hard position for a rookie to come in play at a high level.
9. the right side of the o-line. Lavaou struggled from game 1 to 16. Now he has a rookie RT beside him. again the Browns have very little proven depth on the o-line.
10.The Browns aren't playing Charlie Whitehurst,Kerry Collins, Chad Henne or Jason Campbell this year. They are facing the Mannings, Vick, Rivers,Palmer etc etc. They are playing 2 rookies who have elite skills.
heck they couldn't even beat Andy Dalton last year. and RG3 and Luck are better than Dalton.
11. The schedule. Its brutal away from home. and speaking of home,when was the last time the Browns beat a good team at home?
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Quote:
I don't agree with the current method cause it isn't equating to wins or even a good product on the field
When you go to a resturant and order a meal, do you run into the kitchen and taste the ingredients before they are cooked?
Cause if you do that, then the above comment by you makes sense.. if you don't, then why the hell would you say something like that...
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Damanshot
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Quote:
if the Browns want to be a playoff team,they have to get something out of their picks outside the 2nd RD.(and Ward needs to be a more complete saftey)
all the other AFC North teams are getting dividends from their mid RD picks.
Cincinnati - Geno Atkins
Pittsburgh - Antonio Brown
OK, so who besides those two (and there's arguments to be made about how really successful those two were) are any of our other division rivals getting dividends from in rounds 3-7 since 2010?
I can't think of anyone from Baltimore off the top of my head.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Heckert comments on QB competition
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