DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A quick 2007 OLine Remake?

What do you guys think of this:

LT: Joe Thomas (assuming we're a top 5 picker)

LG:Eric Steinbach - pay whatever it takes and make him our big FA acquisition. Not sure if he's a LG or a RG but put him on whichever side.

C: Bentley - I know it is 50/50 on if he comes back but he gotta think positive.

RG: 3rd Round Pick/Sowells - Still be able to get a top 3 guard in the 3rd round me thinks.

RT: Schaffer - Would make an above average RT.

That would give us an above average line, maybe even good. Plus, it would have to be the youngest line in the league and coiuld play together for a lot of years. The kicker is that it would be a complete remake in only one offseason and I think is at least fairly realistic.

HULK THINK puny human should post comments like this in the other draft or oline threads <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

agreed if i had found an appropriate thread.

Whats up with Tucker? - not really, its a whole OLine remake
QB for 2007! - Not just a draft post
Kevin Shaffer - Suggests moving him, but also talks about FA and the Draft
A pre-pimp look at the draft. - Again, not just draft
2007 FA list - not just FA
Time to make a change...again - FO stuff
A Quantitative Analysis of Frye and OL problems in the Chargers Game - Def not a quantitatvie Analysis post

would be happy to move it, just didnt' see where.

Hulk say any of them.

[color:"white"] Eric Steinbach - pay whatever it takes and make him our big FA acquisition.[/color]

is the guy THAT good?

we all better start looking at the next best O-Tackle, Thomas is not gonna be there when we draft.....Mark my words....He will be gone....and no were not gonna trade up to get him,.....i'd love to have him, but he wont be there,

I'm having flash-backs of Robert Gallery <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Another Big Ten Tackle, Gallery was better than sliced bread, nowdays ya can knock him over with a loaf of it....

I'm all for thread conservation, but it doesn't seem like it fits in any of those and i'm not all for thread conservation at the expense of pulling other threads off topic. But, i'm not the moderator, they can do what they feel is right <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Knox,
Not sure to tell the truth. I know that he's listed at 6'6" 290, can play guard, is rated (for what its worth) a 79 and the 6th best guard in the league by Scouts Inc. And that his OLine coach says he might be even a better center if he had to switch. And on top of that he's only 26. Sounds like a winning combo to me...Young, a stud, and versatile.

His bio from Scouts Inc.:
Steinbach is experienced, durable and versatile. He is tall and athletic for a guard and can play center. He is smart, instinctive and understands blocking angles. He comes off the ball quick and low on run blocks. He can get his feet in the neutral zone, stay square and create a new line of scrimmage. He has excellent body control and quickness on pull blocks. He can locate, hit moving targets and seal off on the second level. He is outstanding in open space and adjusts well downfield. He has the hips and feet to wall off effectively. He gets into defenders and works hard to finish. He is a technically sound pass blocker. He can post up, slide and stay balanced off short sets. He has good short-area reaction skills and uses his hands well. He is aware and reacts well to stunts and games. But Steinbach lacks ideal bulk and power. He isn't an explosive in-line player. He sometimes struggles to maintain pocket depth. He has trouble with good power rushers and some double moves.

[color:"white"] Sounds like a winning combo to me... [/color]

unless the guy is a perrenial pro bowler, it's not wise to "pay whatever it takes". bentley was justified, but this guy is no bentley.

him next to bentley would be studly though

so would the viper and the new ford GT. i sure can't afford them though. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Depends on how much we tank the rest of the season i think.
Oakland (2 wins) - QB (Gun shy on another high LT pick?)
Detriot(2 wins) - QB (Have a high priced LT)
Arizona(2 wins) - LT (Probably want to protect Leinart)
Houston(3 wins) - LT, DT, DE (Probably want to protect Carr, but may go defense to solidify even more)
Tampa(3 wins) - DE, LT?
Browns (3 wins)

And agreed about Gallery...but that is the fear with any top pick so no use fretting over it.

Regarding Joe Thomas



The Gallery reference is truly funny man,,, I love it,, The problem is, if you don't take him if he's there, who do you take.. And yes, it's a risky proposition no matter how you slice that loaf of bread <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Also, to those that are raggin on the person that started this thread,, Frankly to me this is a new subject. There are so many variables with this Oline for the upcoming year..

Here's one thought:

LT: Shaffer or High Draft Pick
LG: Bentley, if he can and will or Druzzi again (*&^&^%^%#%$#%)
C: At the very least, I want us to resign Fraley.. I like that guy,, Or Bentley.
RG: Stienbach or Sowells
RT: Tucker if he's OK, or Dorsey or if we are lucky and get a LT High in the draft, Shaffer


LOL,, Talk about convoluted! I really crack me up sometimes <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Busts are busts. I don't think you can truly protect yourself from them. It's luck, your system, your coaches, injuries, and how much effort the player puts in. It would be cool to have a time machine to go back and force teams to pick other players on draft day and see what changes. I'd for the Browns front office to trade down in 99 and 00. Stockpile o-line talent and then not pass on Tomlinson. Oh yeah, I'd remind Northcutt to catch that pass in Pittsburgh.

Would Leaf still be a complete bust if the Colts picked him overall? Would Manning be as good in San Diego as he is in Indy? Would Tom Brady be as good if he was picked earlier?

LOL.....I 100% agree....I dont fret....They have never called and asked me who they should draft, so I just toss in my useless .02 and watch and pray.. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Alrighty... I'm gonna play a little devil's advocate here.

Free agency wise, I don't know if we will be able to swing what Stienbach is going to go for. I really think you are going to see some Hutchinson type numbers being thrown around for this guy. After our spending spree last year, will we have the capability to be tossing around similar amounts of money this year?

Shaff at RT... So Tucker has been relegated to the scrap heap? He's battled some mystery illness all year (which concerns me..i hope its nothing too serious). But are we assuming that this is it for him? Shaffer is still young and is a work in progress. Savage even said so when we picked him up. Do we really want to muck with him and teach him how to play on the other side of the line? Has Shaff even ever PLAYED RT?

You're ditching Fraley? I figured the better option would be to bump Bentley to a guard spot and keep Hank at centre. I've heard that Bentley has retreated from his earlier comments that he'll only play guard and is now willing to do whatever it takes to help the team. Fraley has done some nice work this year and if we accommodate what he asks for in raised salary, we should.

3rd round guard or Sowells to start... Here's a wacky question. Why not get a guard in the second? At the upper half of the second we are virtually guaranteed one of the top guards. By the time the third rolls around, not so much. Second rounder vs Sowells in camp to decide the other spot.

Here's my version..

LT.. Shaffer (unless we have a shot at Thomas. In which case we deal Shaffer for anything just so we don;t take the cap hit)

LG.. Bentley

C.. Fraley

RG.. 2nd round rookie (Grubbs, Beekman?) Open competition here with Friedmann, Sowells, Matua

RT.. Tucker. (But you give Butler opportunity to take the job)

Backups become... Sowells, Friedmann, Dorsey, Matua, Butler, another rookie

THis minimizes the amount of cash we have to invest in FA (getting Fraley back rather than shelling out BIG for Steinbach) and keeps more of the guys we have in place to continue to grow together.

We cannot tear apart the line very year.

I disagree...i think overpaying for a good young interior lineman is ok. Plus with him, bentley, shaffer, Rookie LT, Rookie/Sowells guard it would give us 3 26 year olds and 2 23 year olds all under contract for the next 5-7 years. I get sweaty just thinking about it.

[color:"white"] i think overpaying for a good young interior lineman is ok. [/color]

OK

[color:"red"] I disagree...i think overpaying for a good young interior lineman is ok. [/color]
O.K...Lerner will open his wallet and sign every good young linemen regardless of the cap. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

The scary thing is the amount of money we have already dedicated to the OL.

I think Fraley has done well, but I was going for the max overhaul. Don't forget he was beat out for a starting job in philly and is only here cause the other 6 guys didn't pan out (no disrespect intended).

And about the money, i'm not sure we can afford it either but i was hoping for some cap relief when we dump Baxter (which we will).

Knox... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

O.K...Lerner will open his wallet and sign every good young linemen regardless of the cap.
---------------------------------------
Yeah, and thats what i said and meant, thanks for the insightful and constructive comment. Not sure why you're so grumpy, maybe a quick nap would help?

Grumpy?
Right..I need a nap from some of the things I read..lol
U think the Browns can sign anyone they want regardless of cost?

I saw this posted by CoachB the other day and I think its a good way to go,

LT-Thomas (if he's available)
G- Bentley
C- Fraley
G- Tucker
RT- Shaffer

This would depend on 2 things

1. If Bentley comes back healthy
2 If Thomas is available when we pick.

Worst case scenerio
Tucker finished
Bentley finished
Sowells a bust
Hank is a FA and signs with a better team
Druzzi and Coleman canned
Dorsey leaves via FA

Everyone has been asking for a complete overhaul and we may just see it.

[color:"white"]Revision:

Thomas (only if we're top-3 AND ahead of the Cardinals).

Forget Steinbach. We can't be paying three players on the line more than $30 million dollar contracts. Someone who's not quite as good but is still solid and gets far more bang for the buck is a guy like Manuwai.

What would lead anyone to believe that Shaffer, who's been a poor left tackle, would suddenly become a good right tackle? Just because he's switching positions? With the way he's played, the best we could hope for is "salvagable."

If you're going to get a starting guard, it's going to come in the 1st or 2nd round, not in the 3rd. It's also a stretch to assume that Sowells is going to be in the mix to start. Earlier this season, I broke down the number of 4th round guards who successfully started in their 2nd seasons. We had one guy with the Eagles and his success was highly questionable. Outside of that, we had other guys from the past several drafts that did start, but were subsequently benched in favor of other players because they sucked.

Finally, why do we have to think positive about Bentley? The smart thing to do isn't to look towards the heavens and keep a stiff upper lip *L* The smart thing to do is plan for the worst.

A little too much wishful thinking here. Thomas won't to 5, Shaffer won't suddenly become an above-average right tackle, Sowells probably isn't going to be ready nor will a 3rd round rookie, and Steinbach blows up our cap.

There needs to be more realistic predications.[/color]

Nothing could be further from fact than that looney statement. Fraley was probably the first choice to replace Bentley, but they couldn't get a deal done. Later, during Preseason, we were able to get the deal done.. It has NOTHING to do with the other 6 guys that didn't pan out. NOTHING!

Canada (and Random thoughts mixed in).

Concensus on Thomas is that he's the best OT in the draft.
Concensus is that OT is a high-value position.
There is NO concensus at this point that Thomas is a franchise-caliber LT. He's rated high in the draft because he's the best available, but professional opinions on him are all over the board. I don't want him unless he's the best PLAYER on the board - preferrable at a need position. If he is - then so be it.



This will be interesting to see. I don't see us making this move either - but if we can afford it.....


This whole Shaffer to RT confused me. LT is your best pass blocker. RT is your best run blocker. I don't think Shaffer is any more above average as a run blocker than as a pass blocker. Now, if Tucker is done - that's an option to consider, but I don't think just moving Shaffer to RT makes us better in itself. JMO


I'd like to see us keep Hank, but I'm no longer willing to move Bentley from center based on Hank's performance. Now - coaches know best. If the plays he's getting blown up on are because he's being asked to do a different technique or something that's correctable, my view would change. Having a center that can handle nearly any NT one on one would be HUGE to our interior line and would have more value in our division than a stud guard. Plus, at center - Bentley can pull to either side when he's not covered. He'd be more limited at guard. JMO


There are gonna be some VERY nice guards to be had in the 2nd/3rd rounds - possibly even later. Depending on what juniors come out, you might even get a solid RT.


This is the part that a lot of people don't get. A large % of our problems in pass protection are on Charlie, RBs, and TEs. On run blocking a lot is communication break-downs and TE. These guys have had limited time together and they're blocking schemes have been changed mid-season to boot. Our interior line needs more power. Stop the penetration and our running game almost doubles day one and Charlie's pocket time goes right with it. Not that we can't improve at tackle as well, but the bulk of our problems come from the inside-out for whatever reason.

On the surface, that kinda looks like a very logical view of the situation. But in reality, the league is now and has been for years, full of guys playing guard that are less than 3rd picks,,, In fact, our very own Andruzzi was an undrafted FA and ended up starting on 3 superbowl winning teams...

I've heard it said before, but, it just doesn't matter where you get them,,,, as long as you get them. The risks vs reward of drafting Olinemen early is well documented,,, you could end up with Orlando Pace or Robert Gallery....

Talent is where you find it! And it can come from just about anywhere, but you have to remain open to it and let it develop! That to me is where plenty of us go totally wrong!

I agree......but as usual, the Oline nuts start to focus in on one player.....I want a lineman too......but not just somebody....I want somone who is going to be good and worth the pick.....maybe Thomas is that guy....maybe not.

Oline isn't our only position of need and frankly, at this point, as bad as we are, it is hard to even say it is the #1 need....we have 3-4 #1 needs <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think Tuckers career is over. I am just guessing but I think this guy has something life threatening going on.

Toad, I totally agree with you on Manuwai regarding bang for the buck. Jax is a good trench team on both sides. so I'm for thomas "IF" he is there and this move for Shaff'.

I disagree on Shaffer moving to RT. I could be wrong, but wasn't he a RT in Atlanta last year? Last year Atlanta was one of the best rushing teams in the league.

I'm currious about yout take on Fraley. I like the guy. He came into a difficult situation and has played well considering. (at least when ever i focus in on him).

I agree with you on Sowells. As bad as our guards have played, I think he would have been put in if he could be the answer.

I don't think so... not on offense any way. I'm sick and tired of the revolving door qb and wr policy with everybody blaming the OL and never really knowing how good any of them can be... get the damn thing fixed.

I think we have other pressing needs on defense, the biggest being NT... I wouldn't care if we used this whole draft and didn't take a single player that doesn't line up on one side of the LOS or the other... no RBs, no WRs, no safeties, no corners... just OL and DL.. right down the list....

Shaffer was a LT on a team with a left handed QB. (Vick) He wasn't the blindside tackle.

Ytown, Hmmmmm, O.K. that does make me more nervous regarding a move to the otherside. He'd have to flip over alot of his instinks. Drat I was hopping that could be done. Well since Thomas likely won't be there for us anyway I don't have to worry about it.

I think that this team (and line, especially) would be improved with a solid LG. That would be my 1st "line" priority. (assuming that we keep Fraley)

[color:"red"]A little too much wishful thinking here. Thomas won't to 5, Shaffer won't suddenly become an above-average right tackle, Sowells probably isn't going to be ready nor will a 3rd round rookie, and Steinbach blows up our cap.

There needs to be more realistic predications. [/color]
And realitically U can't replace 4-5 linemen in one offseason Toad..and just to write off everyone without seeing them play isn' t realistic...
The better senero is to worry about the interior and if Thomas or another OT is there in draft that is BETTER than Shaffer , grab him.Move him to the right side.
I haven't seen U say what happens if Phil is able to take Thomas.
What does he do with Shaffer?
I'm not asking out of ignorance, I want to see what U think.

Ytown, I assume you would take this guard in round 2. I don't think we can go guard in the top 6ish spot. If I assume correctly, who would you like that you think will slip to 2nd round?

We've been 'round on how good/bad he is - but I agree on the position switch. I don't see the benefit unless Tucker's done and things just work out that way w/ other acquisutions, etc. Just moving him doesn't make us better in itself.


Depends on the draft, but I'd question that statement in general. The problem is that the farther you drop, the longer it'll take to expect them to start. We need 1 or 2 guys to start next year. We're early third and someone dropping to us that's second round quality wouldn't be impossible. Agree though - not something to plan on.


Agreed, but we SHOULD have a decent idea by February on him. At least enough to better assess the risk.

Agreed on all, but Sowells is questionable. Savage really liked him, but he IS making a position change on top of coming into the NFL. Different technique altogether. He might still be an upgrade for Coleman and get better as the season progresses - but he shouldn't be expected to "stud-out" right away.

In all honesty, I don't care where we pick up this hypothetical Guard. Ideally he would be someone with enough mobility to pull effectively, and enough strength and quickness to get to the 2nd level effectively in the running game. (especially important against 3-4s)

I don't follow enough "general" college football to come up with a particular player. While I don't buy into the theory that this line absolutely sucks across the board, and all of our struggles on both sides of the ball are all their fault, I do think that Andruzzi is the weakest link in this line.

i like:

LT: Shaffer
LG: Bentley
C: Fraley
RG: Sowells/1st day pick/FA stopgap
RT: Top pick