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1. Brandon Weeden. At 29,has he already peaked as a QB? Can he get better?
can he be broken of his bad habits..fails to see blitzers making him vunerable to backside pressure. When he gets pressured he tends to throw it down the middle.
Weeden has more years, but not some horribly ingrained decade of bad habits. He played QB for the past 2 years. Like almost every college QB coming into the NFL, he has some things he needs to work on. I happen to think that he'l be fine, especially with a much improved RT, and a running game to take the pressure off of him.
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2. The WR's. Weeden has no one on this team that has Blackmons skill set.
they have WR's that are either big or fast..but not both. Their fast guys are undersized. Their bigger WR's are not fast. Cribbs and Massaqiou have shown what they are.Average.
It will be interesting to see if Weeden improves his new receivers more, or if Blackmon improves his new QB more. I think that our receivers are decent. There aren't world-beaters out there, but you can win with solid receivers in the NFL. (ask the Patriots)
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3. The TE's. Watson's best days are gone. Jordan Cameron wasn't even the best TE on his USC team. He's a project. Evan Moore is this regimes Ben Gay. A fan favorite yet isn't good enough to be a featured piece of the offense
Watson can still perform. Smith was solid last year. The team has really walked up hot good Cameron looks, but we'll have to wait and see.
I happen to think that TE might be the 2nd easiest offensive position to fill because you can use specialists more than at any other position.
We also have Brad Smelley, who will swing between FB and TE. I think that he's going to make this team, and contribute. He's a good blocker, and has exceptional hands.
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4.No pass rushing threat from the RDE spot. Rucker and Parker don't strike fear into any LT's.
Parker has been a very solid pass rusher. Someone pointed out to me that the Eagles went to that "Wide 9" defense last year, and that probably wasn't the best fit for Parker. I think that he gets 5-7 sacks this year as a situational pass rusher. Rucker was brought in more to stuff the run, but he can rush the passer a bit. He's probably the more complete DE of the starters.
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5. The CB's are undersized.
Haden is 5'11". Patterson is 5'10". Brown is 5'10". Dockery is 6'1". Skrine is really small at 5'9" ..... but the rest are average size. Dockery has good size at CB, and has shown some promise. A solid pass rush helps the DBs ,,,, and even huge DBs with great cover ability can't cover all day long. There has to be a symbiosis between rush and cover.
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6. Coverage skills of the safeties. Young sucks plain and simple. Not bringing in a FA may backfire. What has Eric Hagg showed that he can handle being a starter?
Definitely an area of concern. It is on many teams too ... not just the Browns. College just isn't turning out great Safeties like they did in the past. So many teams are playing 4 receiver sets that traditional Safety play has suffered as a result. The Browns have a good one in Ward .... if he can stay healthy. That's a big if right now. Definitely a concern. The other Safety spot will have issues. I think that Hagg has shown some ability there, but he hardly layed so it's difficult to make any real solid determinations.
This is an area that could be OK, or could be a disaster.
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7.The interior d-line is very young outside of Rubin.
Yep. That happens when you go from a 3-4 to a 4-3. Luckily I think that we have one of the best in the NFL in Rubin to help the other guys. I don't think that DT in Jauron's defense is horribly difficult to learn, so even the rookies should be able to contribute. It is an area of concern though. Taylor's injury hurts the team a lot.
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8.Depth all around..if someone gets hurt,then its up to some unproven rookie to step in.
if Gocong gets hurt,then its up to Acho to anchor that spot. OLB is a hard position for a rookie to come in play at a high level.
A young team with a massive rebuild/turnover is going to be young. You can play "ifs" at any position, but LB is probably one of the easiest positions to learn in Jauron's defense. I think that JMJ is a very talented kid, and could take Fujita's spot from him. A starting 3 of JMJ, DQ, and Gocong could be pretty solid, and could be solid for years to come.
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9. the right side of the o-line. Lavaou struggled from game 1 to 16. Now he has a rookie RT beside him. again the Browns have very little proven depth on the o-line.
I know that you hate Lauvoa. I don't. I thought that he got better as the year went on. I think that he'll be better this year, especially if Weeden develops as I hope he will, and we wind up with a QB who makes quick decisions and throws. The best friend of a lineman is a QB who gets the ball out quickly. That being said, there are almost certainly going to be growing pains on Schwartz's part. He'll make mistakes, and he and Lauvoa will have to learn to play together. The bright side is that our starters are all talented, and we have the best overall talent from starter to backups that I can remember in a long, long, long time. The best part is that they are also young, so they'll be around for quite a while. This could become a real team strength. It might take 8-10 games for this line to really hit its stride, but once they do they'll be a wall.
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10.The Browns aren't playing Charlie Whitehurst,Kerry Collins, Chad Henne or Jason Campbell this year. They are facing the Mannings, Vick, Rivers,Palmer etc etc. They are playing 2 rookies who have elite skills.
heck they couldn't even beat Andy Dalton last year. and RG3 and Luck are better than Dalton.
11. The schedule. Its brutal away from home. and speaking of home,when was the last time the Browns beat a good team at home?
Yep ..... our defense was somewhat overrated last year for a number of reasons. However, they have some nice building blocks in place. It's not gonna be easy by any stretch of the imagination, and the team is going to have to earn every win they get. However, you play who you play, and the team has to go out and pay to win week in and week out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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well thats 1 more than the Browns have produced.
Atkins made the Pro Bowl and I think was a league leader in sacks as a DT in 2011.
he's regarded as one of the better 4-3 DT's in the NFL
Antonio Brown made the Pro Bowl and was a 1,000 yard WR in his 2nd year. very dangerous punt returner also.
Pernell McPhee had 6 sacks in limited snaps in 2011 with the Ravens.
Jordan Shipley had a very productive rookie season as a slot WR.
if one you can get major contributor from the mid RDS,your doing well.
If he makes the Pro Bowl,thats good too.
but the Browns need to get results sooner than later if they want to close the gap on the AFC North.
if you wait 3 years for a guy to come around,where does that get you?
the league is changing now where that player better show something within 2 years instead of 3 if you are drafted in RDs 2-3.
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Honestly if the Browns brought in some FA's that could really solidify their depth,I'd feel better.
I think TRich will have a very productive year. I expect him to shoulder the load like MJD does in J-ville.
He should have around 1300 to 1400 yards from scrimmage.
but this a league where you need that trifecta outside the QB...WR/WR/TE
RB/WR/TE....you just can't ride on the back of the QB and RB anymore.
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Parkers age is a concern.he's 34 and his production has gone down. Rucker is solid and he can play inside out..but how many teams play with guys at RDE in a 4-3 that are run stoppers 1st?
Watson had the dropsies last year and how many more blows to the head can he take.
what if for some reason he misses a great deal of the season..then who do you start?
Watson is a good inline blocker. Blocking is new concept to Cameron.
my other concern with the CB's is that they really aren't a physical bunch. None of them are real great run stoppers.
TRich,Little,Sheard,Rubin,Jackson,Thomas,Mack,Watson,Haden I know will bring
it this year. They are sure bets. Gocong needs to play more consistant in between the 20's.Patterson is a smart player..always in position.
every else has to step there games up big time.
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one more concern that everyone overlooks...Shurmur isn't a very good football coach
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one more concern that everyone overlooks...Shurmur isn't a very good football coach
Well, we really don't know that.
He's had one year with no off-season. This year his offensive staff has been rounded out, and I think that we'll get a much better idea what kind of head coach he'll be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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one more concern that everyone overlooks...Shurmur isn't a very good football coach
Well, we really don't know that.
He's had one year with no off-season. This year his offensive staff has been rounded out, and I think that we'll get a much better idea what kind of head coach he'll be.
I know one thing. Shurmer of 2012 has to be better than Shurmer of 2011. Because 2011 was some of the worst coaching I've ever witnessed.
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one more concern that everyone overlooks...Shurmur isn't a very good football coach
How can you possibly tell that?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The reasons I think that Shurmur will be a "better coach" this year are:
2nd year with the team.
Full off-season program.
Better talent, especially at QB, RB, RT.
OL having a 2nd straight year together. (4 of the 5 positions)
The additions of Brad Childress and Nolan Cromwell to the offensive staff. (Cromwell was, incidentally, one of my favorite defensive players back in his Rams days)
Players overall having a year's experience in the WCO.
I think that all of these things make it easier for the head coach to improve.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would guess that the team would start Smith if Watson could not go. He played well last year.
Parker is 34, but he's been solid till his production slipped with the introduction of the Eagles' "wide 9 defense". That defense puts a premium on pure speed and pass rush at the expense of everything else. Parker really wasn't a good fit. He might be in our defense. He's worth the risk anyway.
CBs usually aren't "great run stoppers". As long as they can do a decent job of tackling, that's about all you can expect. I can't see any CB blowing up Richardson this coming year.
As far as Rucker is concerned ...... I wasn't a big fan of signing him, and I'm still not. I think that he'll be a solid addition, but I just don't like the guy on a personal level. I do think that he is a good pass rusher, and a great guy to set the edge in the run game. I think that he'll be a huge upgrade over Mitchell.
I do look for our run defense to be markedly improved this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The reasons I think that Shurmur will be a "better coach" this year are:
2nd year with the team.
Full off-season program.
Better talent, especially at QB, RB, RT.
OL having a 2nd straight year together. (4 of the 5 positions)
The additions of Brad Childress and Nolan Cromwell to the offensive staff. (Cromwell was, incidentally, one of my favorite defensive players back in his Rams days)
Players overall having a year's experience in the WCO.
I think that all of these things make it easier for the head coach to improve.
I agree with this but will add another reason: He can't POSSIBLY do any worse than last season . . .
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I have more concerns about this team than most.But because I'm not drinking the "Kool-Aid" you get chastised. Thats fine. if we all thought the same,it would be a boring world.
So we are all entitled to our own opinion... but anybody who is more positive than you is just drinking the "Kool-Aid"? Sounds like you are really up for considering other opinions. 
yebat' Putin
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well thats 1 more than the Browns have produced.
Atkins made the Pro Bowl and I think was a league leader in sacks as a DT in 2011.
he's regarded as one of the better 4-3 DT's in the NFL
Antonio Brown made the Pro Bowl and was a 1,000 yard WR in his 2nd year. very dangerous punt returner also.
Pernell McPhee had 6 sacks in limited snaps in 2011 with the Ravens.
Jordan Shipley had a very productive rookie season as a slot WR.
if one you can get major contributor from the mid RDS,your doing well.
If he makes the Pro Bowl,thats good too.
but the Browns need to get results sooner than later if they want to close the gap on the AFC North.
have you ever noticed that the teams that tend to find these late round "steals" are usually pretty good teams? Now you can look at that two ways... either they are good teams BECAUSE they find late round steals, which I don't necessarily buy... or if you draft a WR in the later rounds like a Colston or a Cruz they have a much better chance of success because they have a very good QB, a solid offense, other weapons, etc... if you put a 4th round DT or a LB on the Ravens he's going to look a lot better and put up much better numbers than he would on the Browns, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. It will be amazing, you watch, as the overall talent level of the Browns increases... and it is increasing, suddenly we will find these later round guys that can play.... imagine that. 
yebat' Putin
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True I think McCoy needed more than 21 starts and some more legit NFL talent around him.
....says the guy that calls Cameron a "bust"...if you still think you make consistent "arguments", here's your mirror....at least now I know where your head is stuck....go join the Colt McCoy sect and worship the Hobbit
on to your next brainfart:
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my issue with this current regime is that they are getting alot from the 3rd RD picks and back. if the Browns want to be a playoff team,they have to get something out of their picks outside the 2nd RD.(and Ward needs to be a more complete saftey) all the other AFC North teams are getting dividends from their mid RD picks. whats the common thread..they made the playoffs in 2011.
Ok, here are the Ravens 3rd to 7th round picks of the past 2 drafts:
OT J.Reid
WR T.Doss
CB C.Brown
DL P. McPhee
QB T.Taylor
RB A.Allen
TE Ed Dickson
TE Pitta
WR D.Reed
DT A.Jones
OT Harewood
Steelers:
CB C.Brown
CB C.Allen
LB C.Carter
G K.Williams
RB Batch
WR E.Sanders
LB T.Gibson
OT C.Scott
CB C.Butler
LB S.Sylvester
RB Dwyer
WR A.Brown
DT Worthington
Now tell me how many big time contributors and NFL starts the Steelers, Ravens and Browns have in those 3rd to 7th rounders from the past 2 drafts
and before you just forget about the dozen "busts" and build the Steelers a shrine for A.Brown: why did they draft a much weaker WR 3 rounds earlier? and many "busts" in between before selecting Brown? Could it have something to do with them having a strong armed QB that can throw the 1 route A.Brown can run (deep streak)? what do you think would have been Brown's stats with Colt McCoy throwing to him?
Of all those 3 teams mid rounders 2012, I think Pinkston is the only one that has started all 16 games btw
Another thing worth mentioning before you bash Heckert and hail "the other AFC North teams mid round picks"....not 1 single Heckert pick is out of the league yet, they ALL made 53 men rosters from day 1....you might want to take a look if Ozzie or Colbert can say that from their draft picks...Geathers and Asante would probably still be here if it wasn't for Mangini's ego
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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go join the Colt McCoy sect and worship the Hobbit
I try to read posts objectively, but crap like that makes some posts with otherwise decent points, hard to read... If a guy quits on his team, becomes a cancer, gets in trouble with the law, fine.. take your shots... but when a guy comes in here and does nothing but work hard and try to make himself and the team better, whether he succeeds or not, he deserves a level of respect and there shouldn't be personal insults and name calling... makes you look like a total doucebag...
yebat' Putin
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Dennis Pitta and Ed Dickson out produced Watson and Moore last year.
Dennis Pitta playing behind Dickson had a equal year to Ben Watson.
Dickson and Pitta combined for 94 catches and 8 TDS in 2011.
I don't see Jordan Cameron even catching 40 passes anytime soon.
Ozzie Newsome is too smart to draft a project like Cameron.
at least Dickson and Pitta can block. More complete TE's.
So right there theres 2 players picked from RDS 3 and 4 from the Ravens how are already paying dividends.How are the Browns 3rd and 4th RD picks panning out from that draft? They gave up 3 picks to take Hardesty in RD 2.
Oh thats right,the Browns have already drafted their replacements.
Jah Reid is slated to start at OG. The jury is out.
Pernell McPhee had 6 sacks in limited snaps. When he got on the field he produced.
Of course Heckerts picks made the team. Mangini left the talent cupboard bare.
Jason Pinkston only started cause Steinbach got hurt.
Heckert wasn't bright enough to go out and try to get a Brian Waters to add experience to the o-line.
Steven Sylvester is the starting LILB for the Steelers.
Antonio Brown is a Pro Bowler. Emmanuel Sanders has produced despite being the 4th WR.
I'm just telling you the cold hard facts.
The Ravens and Steelers are getting better play out of the draft picks in the 3 to 7
RDS
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Jah Reid is slated to start at OG. The jury is out.
Pernell McPhee had 6 sacks in limited snaps. When he got on the field he produced.
Of course Heckerts picks made the team. Mangini left the talent cupboard bare.
Jason Pinkston only started cause Steinbach got hurt.
Heckert wasn't bright enough to go out and try to get a Brian Waters to add experience to the o-line.
Steven Sylvester is the starting LILB for the Steelers.
Antonio Brown is a Pro Bowler. Emmanuel Sanders has produced despite being the 4th WR.
I'm just telling you the cold hard facts.
The Ravens and Steelers are getting better play out of the draft picks in the 3 to 7
RDS
I mean...are you serious? Sylvester is a starting LB for the Steelers? You might want to check that Mr "I'm just telling you the cold hard facts." 
..of ALL the names I listed Dickson is the only starter from the Ravens and Steelers COMBINED...facts? Jah Reid, drafted in the 3rd round is "slated" to start? and Pinkston and Lauvao suck...interesting slant...if Heckert would have drafted an OL in round 3 that did nothing in his rookie season, would you still say "he's slated to start"? No, you label those prospects busts when drafted by the Browns....A.Brown is a ProBowler? lol...you know who is too? Derek Anderson....A.Brown runs 1 route and returns, he was a good 6th rounder but he would be nothing if Colt McCoy or some other noodle arm would throw his way...oh, and you're ok with a 3rd round WR being a 4th WR with 22 ctaches and 288 yds? E.Sanders that is, and we're talking regression in his 2nd season....interesting....well, we have a 3rd round RB investment who is a backup too, guess that's ok isn't it? Btw, our 4th WR, Norwood, has the same stats...so I guess he's an ok no4 WR to have...and we found him on a PSquad...you should re-register with the username DoubleStandard
and what about all those out of the league guys you don't wanna talk about?
you still think it's a fact 59 tackles is not enough for a DT? You pull your facts out of you know where, lol...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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don't you get tired of the Browns being a non factor in the AFC North.? We have had nothing to cheer about since the 2002 season when we played the Steelers in the playoffs.
if you think our drafts are so great the last few years,then why are the Browns a mere 1-11 in the AFC North?
Antonio Brown is a starter. 6th RD Pro Bowler..when was the last time the Browns had a 1,000 yd WR?
sounds like to me you are blaming all the Browns offensive woes on the QB position?
Lavaou and Pinkston were horrible last year. why is that so hard to understand?
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don't you get tired of the Browns being a non factor in the AFC North.? We have had nothing to cheer about since the 2002 season when we played the Steelers in the playoffs.
I think we are all tired of that... but I don't think your midround draft pick argument is the problem.
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if you think our drafts are so great the last few years,then why are the Browns a mere 1-11 in the AFC North?
You admitted yourself, Mangini left the cupboard pretty bare....
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sounds like to me you are blaming all the Browns offensive woes on the QB position?
I wouldn't put all of the blame there.. but do you think Brown is that much better than Little? Or do you think that it's just possible that ALL of our WRs and TEs aren't that bad? And ALL of the WRs and TEs for these other teams are just that good? At some point don't you have to look at the common denominator that makes WRs and TEs good, like the QB, the scheme, etc.? Lets see, who are the most productive low round WRs in the NFL last year? Let's see, we have Welker, Victor Cruz, Mike Wallace, Colston, A. Brown. What's the common denominator? Oh yea, some of the best QBs in the league....
yebat' Putin
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Someone must have peed in your Wheaties this morning...
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Maybe it was the team??
I don't agree with many of his comments, but when it comes to being frustrated with the way we have sucked, I am right there with him.
We need to win at least 7 games or Homie needs to go. That is the bare minimum. Other teams have turned things around, it's time we do as well.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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We need to win at least 7 games or Homie needs to go. That is the bare minimum. Other teams have turned things around, it's time we do as well.
peen...what year of Holmgren's 5 year rebuild of the Browns is just beginning?
You want to resort back to the failed ways of the past where the Browns never stick to "any plan", long enough to succeed. Every 2,3, or 4 yrs, let's change the freaking plan, fire everyone and start over, right?
Folks with your kind of thinking are the reason why the Browns have stunk since returning....impatient, wanting instant success, build for the short term because you can't stand the sacrifice required to see a 5 yr rebuild plan through.
peen, again, what year of Holmgren's 5 year rebuild of the Browns is just beginning?
Myself, I don't care what the Browns record is this season...we are starting a rookie QB who will be playing in the toughest division in football, playing the 2nd toughest schedule in the NFL.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Changing arguments now? Yeah, we're still the 4th best team in the AFC North....you won't change that with just 2 drafts...your "argument" was that those other teams have better mid round picks and I showed you that it's NOT the case....you're clearly applying double standards everywhere....Ravens 3rd rounder Jah Reid is "slated" to start, but Cameron was a bust after week 4 for you
If you think that mid/late round picks should be above AVG starters in their rookie or 2nd season then you're just being unfair, because they aren't neither for those other teams....the Steelers and Ravens simply had a much better group of players YEARS before Heckert got here...
That 2009 offseason and draft still set us back a good 4-5 years, since the idiot traded away 2 former Top 10 picks and had 4 Top picks...can you imagine with Heckert's track record who would be a Brown now instead of Mack, Robo, Massa and Veikune? Heckert only had 2 picks and much later but he got out of that draft with Maclin and L.McCoy, 2 playmakers....Heckert has not busted any Top 50 selection as a Browns GM, so it's not day dreaming to say that we would have 3 (!!!) more above AVG or better NFL starters on this roster if he had pulled the trigger in 2009...so if you want to blame someone that our roster is still not there yet, then look at the moron Mangini and his horrible 2009 offseason: Ventrone, Barton, Coleman, Poteat, Royal, Stuckey, Robo, Massa, Veikune etc etc...I once listed all the names of 20+ players he brought in, you'll get eye cancer just looking at it...after 3 seasons, the only above AVG player today's roster has from that offseason is Alex Mack, a freaking Center....that's all what's left after only 3 seasons, with a Top 10 pick and having traded 2 former Top 10 picks....you want to argue that a 4th round project gamble like Cameron after only 1 season is the reason that we are behind the other North teams? Go ahead....meanwhile the 2009 offseason is smacking you right up your fronthead and says "DOH"...I mean do you realize? This moron managed to waste 3 Top 10 picks and got a C and some washed up vets in return and yu want to argue if Jah Reid is better than Pinkston or if 1 of the numerous CB drafted by Ravens/Steelers contributed more than Skrine (they didn't btw)? Dont you feel silly doing that?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Let's not just blame Mangini. Savage did his part as well. 2006 ROUND PLAYER POSITION UNIVERSITY NOTES 1 Wimbley, Kamerion LB Florida State 13th overall 2 Jackson, D'Qwell LB Maryland 34th overall 3 Wilson, Travis WR Oklahoma 78th 4a Williams, Leon LB Miami (Fla) 110th 4b Sowells, Isaac OL Indiana 112th 5a Harrison, Jerome RB Washington State 145th 5b Minter, Demario DB Georgia 152nd 6a Vickers, Lawrence FB Colorado 180th 6b Oshinowo, Babatunde DT Stanford 181st 7 Hamilton, Juston S Virginia Tech 222nd 2007 ROUND PLAYER POSITION UNIVERSITY NOTES 1a Thomas, Joe OT Wisconsin 3rd overall 1b Quinn, Brady QB Notre Dame 22nd overall 2 Wright, Eric DB UNLV 53rd overall 5 McDonald, Brandon DB Memphis 140th overall 6 Purcell, Melila DL Hawaii 200th overall 7a Pittman, Chase DL LSU 213th overall 7b Steptoe, Syndric WR Arizona 234th overall 2008 ROUND PLAYER POSITION UNIVERSITY NOTES 4a Bell, Beau LB UNLV 104th overall (From Raiders through Cowboys) 4b Rucker, Martin TE Missouri 111th overall (From Lions through Cowboys) 6a Rubin, Ahtyba DT Iowa State190th overall (From Seahawks) 6b Hubbard, Paul WR Wisconsin 191th overall (From Browns through Eagles) 7 Hall, Alex DE St. Augustine 200th overall http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/draft-history/2000s.html Three drafts (2006-2008) and only 3 players still on the team. These 3 drafts should be the core of our team and we have 3 players. Of those D'Quell has spent as many games on the IR as on the field (I doubt that is true but I bet it is close), JT is a great player from a draft that you almost couldn't screw up. JT, Megatron, Peterson. Yet Savage tried because the guy he really wanted was JaMarcus Russell. Rubin was a great find. JT and Rubin are really good players. DQ is solid when healthy and on the field. But 3 players 3 drafts is not enough. Seriously, about half the dawgtalkers here could have done a better job. The vast majority wanted JT and we probably would have Ngata. I am sure we could have lucked into a couple players that would equal or surpass DQ's production. Don't get me wrong. I am not defending Mangini's draft choices. I am only pointing out that he is not the sole reason that we stink.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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ahhh man... I forgot about demario minter..
wow.. o how time passes by.
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Quote:
JT and Rubin are really good players. DQ is solid when healthy and on the field. But 3 players 3 drafts is not enough. Seriously, about half the dawgtalkers here could have done a better job. The vast majority wanted JT and we probably would have Ngata. I am sure we could have lucked into a couple players that would equal or surpass DQ's production.
Out of those Drafts only JT and Rubin (who I gave a 3rd round grade to) where on my Browns Draft wish list. I was sick to my stomach over those Drafts.
Since Heckert's arrival, he has been much more in line with firstly; our needs and he has also selected many more prospects from my pre draft list.
Haden, Sheard, Weeden and Schwartz where all high on my list. It probably means nothing to anyone else, but I can find comfort in knowing that in my mind he is making the right choices for this teams future.
Could I have done a better job in drafting talent, then Mangini or Oppie? Yes I think I could have, but I don't think that I could have done better then Heckert has with my limited resources.
Imo even Colt McCoy was a good selection by us. I think he is better then Fry, BQ or DA. He might not be a top 25 starting QB in the league, but when you pose the question of how many QB's that are in the league starting or otherwise, then I think that he is a better 2nd option then many more that other teams poses.
My expectations where that I thought he could be a decent backup QB in this league and be a spot starter when we took him in the 3rd round.
Imo he has lived up to those expectations. Was I one of those who hoped for more then that after his rookie season? Yes, but imo that would have been a plus. We took that chance that he could exceed the expectations, after all what did we have to lose? We could do a lot worse then Colt McCoy for our backup QB imho.
I think that he has bought us some time to fill other needs the past two years as well, without selling the farm by pressing the issue.
My expectations for Brandon Weeden are much higher then they where for Colt McCoy.
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Arguing with Kendall is like taking a whiz into the wind.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Let's not just blame Mangini. Savage did his part as well.
Jester...I certainly agree, Mangini is not the only reason the Browns roster was in such horrid shape when Heckert arrived...how far back do you want to go?
...no sense beating that dead horse.
Still, we have some fans who do not understand the meaning of a 5 year rebuilding plan, VIA THE DRAFT !
Some fans want X number of wins this season and if they don't get it, they want to fire everyone and start over. With fans like that, the Browns don't need enemies.
It is exactly that strategy, employed since 1999, that doomed this franchise to the failure they became before Heckert arrived.
Now the Browns are employing a long term strategy, knowing there is going to be short term sacrifice while the rebuilding is taking place, knowing that for the long term, the team will be positioned to compete for the playoffs in this division.
The H&H rebuild is approx 50% complete as the first two drafts focused on the defense and this draft focused on the offense.
The Browns 2012 offense should be thought of as a "baby", about to take their first steps. It is young, inexperienced but smart and determined. Don't expect miracles from this offense this season because the key players on the offense need time to learn and gain experience before they can compete at the highest levels.
The 2013 season will be better than the 2012 season and in 2014...watch out ! As fans, we have no choice but to wait for the team to blossom and to stay the course started by H&H in 2010. To stop this process and start over with someone else's brilliant idea would insure failure for the next 5 yrs.
So stop with the ultimatums and calls to fire those who have seen the rebuild project to the halfway point, 50% complete. Step back and try to be realistic and understand this is a 5 yr plan, not a 2 or 3 yr plan
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's not just blame Mangini. Savage did his part as well.
Jester...I certainly agree, Mangini is not the only reason the Browns roster was in such horrid shape when Heckert arrived...how far back do you want to go?
Gotta go aaaalll the way back to truly point out everybody who's helped make this "franchise" a big joke.
And I agree w/ you. 5 year plan all the way. I'd give 'em 6 years after that first year Holmgren had keeping Mangini around.
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To be fair... Firing people is a good idea if they are incompetent.
That is the difference with this FO.
I don't regret any of the previous firings except some coordinators like Arians or Chud.
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Mac...Homie himself said 5-6 wins wouldn't be considered improvement, so I am looking at the next number. If we win just 6, much is going to depend on how we looked. We don't even want to think about any less.
Also, I don't believe you when you say you don't care about the record. That's hogwash.
Oh...this is year three. The year you should start showing signs of life. I think we will, but if we don't we are on the wrong path. Also, to me anyway, a 5 year plan isn't building a team that can stumble in to 8 wins. It's building a team that is a SB contender. As far as I am concerned, this should be our 1 and done playoff year. Next year, year 4 is the year we win a game or two in the playoffs. Year 5 is where you are a very good team playing in conference championships.
So, even to concede a year that Mangini was here, we'll call this year 2...this should be the year we stumble to 8 wins.
That's how I see it and refuse to see it any other way. It's time we start climbing up the ladder.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Brutal schedule, rookie QB from the spread, Phil Taylor out until the bye probably, it isn't going to be easy this year.
I believe the defense is likely to take a step back early on.
I expect a strong run game with this big OL and Richardson. Weeden however is the key. We may be majorly improved and the record not show it.
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All Pro
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The Browns need to come out and make some kind of statement vs Philly and then the Bengals.
Its lacked any kind of idenity on both sides of the ball for too many years.
I expect alot of Trent Richardson early on.
The problem I see is that when you draft a RB in the Top 5,then other teams know that is the guy on offense you gameplan against.
But who is harder to defense Trent Richardson or a QB/WR combos that can attack all levels of the defense.
If the Browns fall behind by 14 or more points in the second half,they are in trouble.
They don't have that kind of offense where they can overcome that kind of deficit.
Weeden is a rookie and doesn't have the benefit of a good WR/TE cores.
The defense still has holes and question marks despite all the investments Heckert has put into.
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Folks with your kind of thinking are the reason why the Browns have stunk since returning....impatient, wanting instant success, build for the short term because you can't stand the sacrifice required to see a 5 yr rebuild plan through.
Having a little patience and being able to understand how a rebuilding process works is important for fans, but let's not get this twisted: 5 years or 10 years of having dopes like Butch Davis, Carmen Policy, Dwight Clark, Phil Savage, and Eric Mangini running the show would have yielded the same . results.
We've sucked not because Lerner wasn't patient. Savage and Crennel were given ample time. We've sucked because the wrong people were calling the shots. That's where the story for those idiots ended, as it should have.
Say whatever you want about rebuilding, but this is going to be Holmgren's 3rd year steering the ship. The consensus in the NFL world is that we are or are very close to the worst team talent-wise in the league. If, after three seasons, we aren't any better than that, then Holmgren is going to have to answer for it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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"The consensus in the NFL world is that we are or are very close to the worst team talent-wise in the league. "
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I am not really sure how that can be measured? And when you say "consensus" who is that really?
The third draft was just completed and none of the players just drafted have played a down in the NFL.
At this point I find it kind of hard to accurately grade much of anything.
I agree that after this year is ended the management team as a whole have to be held accountable for the product on the field and their results.
Personnel decisions have been made and this team needs to improve on their past performance and they need to win more games. Especially telling will be their record within the division.
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I think that this draft is one of the best, from top to bottom, that I can remember seeing as a Browns fan.
There were a couple of head scratchers .... like Hughes .... but overall, I see 3-6 starters in this draft ..... and some high quality starters at that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Brutal schedule, rookie QB from the spread, Phil Taylor out until the bye probably, it isn't going to be easy this year.
I believe the defense is likely to take a step back early on.
I expect a strong run game with this big OL and Richardson. Weeden however is the key. We may be majorly improved and the record not show it.
That is all well and good, but I don't care. If we win 5-6 games, these clowns need to hit the road.
I don't know crap about it and could produce a 5-6 game winner.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
"The consensus in the NFL world is that we are or are very close to the worst team talent-wise in the league. "
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I am not really sure how that can be measured? And when you say "consensus" who is that really?
Yeah, 'Fish, I know how it sounds. I've known about the articles for a while now, but haven't seen fit to rain on the parade so shortly after the draft was over, hehe.
But...you've asked...so...
ESPN's power rankings for 2012 have us ranked 30th.
There was a group of ESPN guys that talked about a future season ranking that is based on who a team drafts, what their QB situation is, the FO situation, and the coaching staff. We ranked dead last in those categories.
CBSSports.com has us ranked 31st in the NFL.
There are others, but I see no point is rubbing salt into the wound.
Welp...that's the closing ceremony of the pre-season optimism...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Any team that is looking forward to a rookie QB should be near the bottom...
My question is who would be in a worse position...
Possibly Indy, Minny, and Miami
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Mac...Homie himself said 5-6 wins wouldn't be considered improvement, so I am looking at the next number. If we win just 6, much is going to depend on how we looked. We don't even want to think about any less.
peen...and if the team does not meet the goal of 5-6 wins did Holmgren say he should be "fired"?
You said, if the team does not meet the your standard, you want Holmgren fired...unfreaking real !
It's one thing to be disappointed that your team did not win X number of games...it is entirely different when you start talking about firing the man who is in charge of turning this franchise around, and doing it the hard way, via the draft.
How typical of some Browns fans, if the team does meet your imaginary goal, let's fire someone.
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Also, I don't believe you when you say you don't care about the record. That's hogwash.
peen...I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT THE BROWNS WON/LOSS RECORD IS THIS YEAR.
peen, year 3 of the 5 yr rebuild plan is not when the Browns reap the benefit of their sacrifices.
It all about understanding the 5 year plan started in 2010...some fans get it...some don't.
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Oh...this is year three. The year you should start showing signs of life. I think we will, but if we don't we are on the wrong path.
Showing signs of life for you is 7 wins or fire Holmgren.
How smart is that?
How quickly the offense gels is hard to say, but "showing signs of life" does not necessarily translate into wins...you need to understand that.
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As far as I am concerned, this should be our 1 and done playoff year.
Next year, year 4 is the year we win a game or two in the playoffs.
Year 5 is where you are a very good team playing in conference championships.
So, even to concede a year that Mangini was here, we'll call this year 2...this should be the year we stumble to 8 wins.
peen...no one ever accused you of being "realistic".
You obviously are out of touch with the reality of where the Browns are in this rebuild.
You have unrealistic goals and expectations and you are setting yourself up for a very unhappy season as a Browns fan.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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