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Legend
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Legend
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Simple, winning season or losing season.. Holmgren and his staff need at least two more years.
Guy tells you it's a 5 year plan,, you give him 5 years. JMO of course. don't expect anyone to agree.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
"I said, 'Tom, do you want to do this?' " Holmgren said after the draft. "He said, 'I don't think I do. I think it's too much or too strong or whatever.'
"Then I said, 'Well, we may have to.' Then he goes, 'Well, if we have to, then you have to tell me because I won't do it.'
"I said, 'OK, then I might have to tell you.' "
Clearly Holmgren wanted the extra large 4 topping pizza but it was $34.. Heckert thought that was too much and wanted to go with a couple meatball subs but thought they might be out of meatball subs... but he was willing to get the pizza if that's what Holmgren told him to do.
Problem solved...
I disagree. I don't believe Heckert was willing to get the pizza. I think he stated quite clearly that he'd do it only if Holm's threatened to can his ass and make him eat pork-and-beans if he didn't comply. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Hall of Famer
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Simple, winning season or losing season.. Holmgren and his staff need at least two more years.
Guy tells you it's a 5 year plan,, you give him 5 years. JMO of course. don't expect anyone to agree.
When I get hired as the next Browns GM I am going to tell everyone that I have a 20 year plan 
Actually we should have a 20 year plan. A plan to get good in the next couple years, then to stay good for the next couple decades.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,163 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
Quote:
Simple, winning season or losing season.. Holmgren and his staff need at least two more years.
Guy tells you it's a 5 year plan,, you give him 5 years. JMO of course. don't expect anyone to agree.
When I get hired as the next Browns GM I am going to tell everyone that I have a 20 year plan
Actually we should have a 20 year plan. A plan to get good in the next couple years, then to stay good for the next couple decades.
you are correct.. all kidding aside,, if you build for today and only for today,, tomorrow will be all but lost..
I know that there are a few fans on here that would trade away everything in order to get 1 ring NOW.. But I'd rather have what the steelers and pats have...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm pretty sure that quote you are talking about was in reference to trading up to #3 to get Richardson. For weeks Heckert was saying we weren't trading up and we would get one of the guys we wanted at #4. I believe that's where his hesitancy came from.
This is true.
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OP
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There are no 5 year plans. the 5 year plan is nothing more than a myth.
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Joined: May 2008
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Hall of Famer
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There are no 5 year plans. the 5 year plan is nothing more than a myth.
Oh I think that it's a real plan, problem is that most don't have the luxury of 5 years to turn things around.
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j/c
I like that we finally have a gm that gets it, and he is building this team the right way...
Yes, we finally have a gm that is investing heavily in the trenches and at rb. It all starts with the OL/DL....
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
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Quote:
There are no 5 year plans. the 5 year plan is nothing more than a myth.
mourg...a Tony Grossi disciple?
Grossi has been saying the same thing, that there are no more 5 yr plans in the NFL...of coarse, he's wrong !
Well, there are 5 year plans if the leadership of the organization, from the owner on down says there using a 5 yr plan to rebuild the Browns, via the draft.
Take a look at the depth chart of the offense... web page ...how many free agents do you see on the starting 11?
The first two drafts focused on the defense and now in the 3rd draft, the Browns addressed the offense with the first 3 draft picks.
The defense is utilizing more free agents but that will change as the depth that has been drafted in later rounds, matures and as the final two drafts are used to address areas of most need on defense and offense.
To rebuild a team via the draft takes time and a commitment by the leadership of the franchise. See anyone jumping ship or declaring there is no 5 yr plan?
So far, the only people to declare "there is no 5 year plan" are the impatient fans looking to revert to the failed methods of the past where we fire management and coaches in years 3 and 4.
...almost forgot...and some in the media, such as the axe wielding (but harmless), bitter talking heads like Grossi.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I am this regime's biggest supporter but I see a 5 year plan as nonsense at best and an excuse to suck at worst. It is impossible to have that kind of long term plan.
this year we fix OL, next year Linebackers, year 3 we go secondary. It doesn't work that way.
Now the only plan that is long term in which this regime has is to build through the draft and add talent wherever you find it. umm that is not a plan it is their philosophy of building through the draft.
Each year you have a plan and even that plan is going to go through changes. I bet after their first year, trading up to # 3 for a RB certainly wasn't in their plan. Again 5 year plan is a term used by people that are looking to prepare the fanbase for suckage.
AS for their basic philosophy of building through the draft, I agree with it for now. I think we need that base of players all on the same page before we begin to bring in the right free agent. This is a long term approach and it will pay off.
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Legend
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Legend
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I agree. The idea there is some plan is crazy.
Just get good players and win. How's that for a plan??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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Legend
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That's why I really loved this year's draft. I think that we got several really good players.
I see 4 long term, quality starters out of this draft. Not just "we drafted them so we might as well start them" starters ...... but high end starters.
That's pretty damn exciting for any draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
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So there is a 5 year plan and you can stop with that nonsense. Quote:
this year we fix OL, next year Linebackers, year 3 we go secondary. It doesn't work that way.
mourg...I invite you to take a look back at the last 3 drafts and explain what the Browns were trying to accomplish with the way they used their draft picks.
In 2010, the Browns drafted a corner back in the first round and a safety in the second round....why would the Browns do such a thing?
In 2011, the Browns drafted a DT in the first round and a DE in the second round.
In 2012, the Browns drafted a RB and QB in the first round and a OT in the second round.
Surely you can see that the Browns were targeting areas of need and picking the best players available to address those areas...they did it in 2010...2011...and again this year.
Now, you can look at the offense and see that, for the most part, the team has addressed nearly every position via the draft. Are they done...maybe...got to see how the young guys perform this season.
But we can look at the offensive and defensive units and see that Heckert is building with a purpose and slowly, the offense and defense are being rebuild via the draft.
Quote:
AS for their basic philosophy of building through the draft, I agree with it for now. I think we need that base of players all on the same page before we begin to bring in the right free agent. This is a long term approach and it will pay off.
mourg...by the end of your post, it sure sounds like you are agreeing with me, that there is a 5 yr plan to rebuild this team and the Browns are sticking to it.
I welcome you to the side of reality.
IMO, it's going to be another tough year for the Browns as our young guys on offense get their NFL experience the hard way.
Everyone needs to keep in mind, the five year plan still has the rest of this season, plus the drafts of 2013 and 2014 before the 5 yr plan is done.
Does that mean the team won't begin winning before 2014...NO.
But, most young players need time to settle in and I don't look for our Browns to be any different.
The year I'm excited about is next season, 2013...because I know the young guys on offense will have had a season of experience under their belt and should have a higher degree of confidence that they can perform in the NFL.
I have very good reason to look at this team and feel good about the future, especially after this season.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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OP
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It isn't a plan its whack-a-mole. They see an issue they attack it. The NFL is a year by year, day by day operation.
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1st String
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1st String
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what makes you think plans are soley formed for amassing talent?
there's more to turning around an ailing franchise other than replacing the players. arguing over semantics so no one has to admit fault.
come on....
to purport there's an articulated 5 year plan is just as wrong as saying there is no plan other than to react to circumstances.
why is everyone so black and white on this site?
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Just because they are rookies doesn't mean they wont do well. We can still expect a better offense. I mean we drafted talented guys with two first rounders and a second. They are not scrubs.
Only thing I fear is the amount of INTs, and how they will effect our win loss column.
I wasn't suggesting they "won't play well". But there is something to be said about continuity. And that takes time.
ie... A QB and WR's. It takes a degree of familiarity before your QB almost instinctively knows exactly what each WR will do in certain situations.
The WCO is predicated on timing routes. Sometimes your QB is expected to throw the ball even before the WR makes his break. While everyone in this equasion may be "playing well", that precision timing with all of your WR's takes time to develop.
Am I saying it can't happen quickly? No, I'm not. But to expect that may be setting ones self up for disapointment. I do believe that as the season progresses we will see improvemnet. But with the WCO, I don't expect a lot of improvenment from day 1 because of the lack of continuity. In most cases it's simply the nature of the beast....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Quote:
I agree. The idea there is some plan is crazy.
Just get good players and win. How's that for a plan??
And I think that's exactly what they are doing. Here's how a "plan works"....
Draft = Four starters a year
4x5= 20
After injuries and a few key FA signings, you have built a team. When the cupboards are pretty much bare to start with, basic math helps you construct some resemblance of a plan.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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OR . . .just win,baby! how's that? Got to be a plan of some sort, but the NFL needs a solid starting plan, but it seems that success puts a premium on the ability to adjust effectively. We seem to be at odds with our 'plan" if it exists, because we draft certain skills we ignore, underuse, and such. Deep threats we throw deep to who can't get separation, supposedly gifted runners who get jack up the middle, but a lot of same down, same play regardless of poor gains, and do that predictably. Must have some sense of who needs replaced, but the "plan" has to be better talent used better. A gameplan has to be personnel as much as playbook IMO. Hope Chilly brings it on O; more points, especially TD's will help a bunch. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Heckert comments on QB competition
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