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Completely agree. I thought we beat the hell out of the Steelers and it was a major reason why the Steelers were worn down against the Broncos. Physicality is not an issue for this team on either side of the ball.
This is a big, mean nasty offensive line from one end to the other. Teams aren't going to be excited to play the Browns to often when you have an OL like that and a 230 lb. bow legged bowling ball in the backfield. Hell even our receivers have a nasty streak and like to hit.
On defense it is loaded with guys that are physical, mean and nasty. Big Phil needs to get back quickly. Ward and Taylor set the tone.
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Ah the off season, a time to dream big dreams.
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J/C
It's very early to start predicting anything. I'm always a big believer in HAVING to win one of your first two games (and I really stress winning your first one if you're a perennial loser).
That being said, I highly doubt we're anything but 1-3.
Eagles - almost a definite loss
Bengals - probably a loss, but a better chance to win than Philly
Bills - our most winnable game obviously
Ravens - almost a definite loss
1-3 or 0-4 ... and then the draft
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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those statements are only true based on last year. NFL teams can change pretty dramatically year-to-year.
Philly - bad run defense and a slow start last year. what if that bad run defense continues and we can control the clock more? Vick is prone to bad games, it's not complete crazy to think we could win that game.
Bengals - very well could have been a paper tiger last year. we had chances to win both of the games against them. if we are improved (should be) and they regress (I think they will), then why not have a chance?
Bills - strange team. last year, they had a bunch of injuries coupled with a bad OL and no pass rush. well, they got Mario Williams for that pass rush. they added a whole slew of new pieces. they could be bad again, or they could be a surprise team this season. tough to tell.
Ravens - again, it's not like they were on a completely different level in our games against them. with a better QB/RB combo, them possibly w/o Reed, their defense continuing to age and their offense erratic, there's always a chance.
now, we likely won't be favored in any of these games. but, taken individually, it's impossible to figure out which games we are "most likely" to win at this stage.
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I'll say this much - if we beat the Bengals in Week 2, they will come unraveled.
Seemingly every time we beat the Bengals early on, they finish poorly for the season. I almost wonder if they count on us as a win and it completely demoralizes them when we beat them in the first matchup.
I just think back to 2010. We beat them early on, and they fell apart for the rest of the year. 2008, we beat them early on. They finished strong, but still really sucked. 2007, completely fell apart after we beat them in Week 2.
I'd really like to beat them because I think it would send them into a tail spin.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I definitely agree with you, which is why I stated it's too early for any of this talk. However, how many times have we legitimately been comparable to the Ravens (especially playing in BAL). While I know each year is different, until we prove otherwise, we cannot beat them.
The Eagles were a poor run defense, but we also have to look at the other side of the coin. More likely than not we will not be able to stop them either. They have a top 3 back in the league and probably the best athletic combo at QB/WR.
I'm not disputing the fact that teams change. All I'm saying is right now, as of May 24 (which makes predictions irrelevant anyways), I would predict us to be 1-3 to 0-4.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Ah the off season, a time to dream big dreams.
Can you think of a better time 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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that's fair. and I definitely don't think we'll be comparable to Baltimore over the full season. just that 1 game snippet where anything is possible we could be 
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Oh how I wish I could or knew how to find that post of yours after that game.. you are so downplaying what you said.. man you were ticked off and wanted RAC fired on the spot..
Damn, I wish I could find that post...
I felt the same way for a while before he was fired. I had many posts advocating he should be fired for multiple reasons.
I wish you could find both Peens and mine! It would simply show that we both saw what a terrible coach he was and also show that we were right all along!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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They may have beat the Steelers on both sides of the ball to others perception,but yet when the clock read 00 00 it was the Steelers who came away with the most important thing,they won.
the thing is,they didn't finish off Ben Rothlisberger. They allowed him to stay in the game,make a few crucial plays.
For a o-line is supposedly "big and nasty" they sure didn't dominate in the trenches last season. Very rarely did I see the Browns o-line really negate another front 7.
Their WR's like to hit? really? Usually a offense that fails to generate big chunk plays running the ball is not getting downfield blocking. I didn't see it from Massaqoiu or Cribbs. Little did blow up a few pursuing LB'ers in the Cards game but not much more than that.
on to the defense,if they were big physical and nasty then why were most teams running the ball at will on the Browns defense and not getting to the QB?
I think the Eagles game is very important. When was the last time the Browns beat a good team at home?
The Browns have to come out beat the Eagles convincingly. Yeah a wins a win,but when was the last time the Browns beat a team by 14 points or more and it meant something?
when was the last time the Browns throughly destroyed a AFC North rival?
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They may have beat the Steelers on both sides of the ball to others perception,but yet when the clock read 00 00 it was the Steelers who came away with the most important thing,they won.
the thing is,they didn't finish off Ben Rothlisberger. They allowed him to stay in the game,make a few crucial plays.
The McCoy led offense averaged 13 freaking points a game because he was the worst QB in the national football league. If it wasn't for garbage points that average would have been 6.
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For a o-line is supposedly "big and nasty" they sure didn't dominate in the trenches last season. Very rarely did I see the Browns o-line really negate another front 7.
How many offensive lines can dominate 8 man fronts? The QB must make them pay. It is called beating the blitz.
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Their WR's like to hit? really? Usually a offense that fails to generate big chunk plays running the ball is not getting downfield blocking. I didn't see it from Massaqoiu or Cribbs. Little did blow up a few pursuing LB'ers in the Cards game but not much more than that.
Our RBs lacked burst and vision the blocking was good at both levels.
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on to the defense,if they were big physical and nasty then why were most teams running the ball at will on the Browns defense and not getting to the QB?
Teams ran at the LDE and weakside backer over and over. Try watching games and you will notice these things.
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Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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on to the defense,if they were big physical and nasty then why were most teams running the ball at will on the Browns defense and not getting to the QB?
Teams ran at the LDE and weakside backer over and over. Try watching games and you will notice these things.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl
you had it backwards. teams ran to their left end (our RDE) and killed us at a 4.99YPC (4.62YPC to the left tackle).
up the middle, teams got a generous 4.52YPC. to the right tackle, they still got a 4.81YPC.
to their right end (usually the strong side) they got a measely 3.11YPC.
-----------------------------------------
going to the last table, teams ran left 25% of the time. right 20% of the time and to the middle 56% of the time (yeah 101% due to rounding of numbers).
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How much will the 1st 4 games tell us?
They will tell us about the first 4 games, but not a whole lost about the next 12 games 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I figured as much. Just providing the data to backup how teams hurt us. Unfortunately they were able to gash up the middle too (Phil Taylor was definitley the biggest part at fault there as he often tried to do 'too much' and put himself out of position - normal for a rookie there).
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It's time when it's time. I mean you seem to agree that we don't really know or at least accept that we don't. You seem to think there is merit to not having enough time and that it needs to grow.
So I'm kinda confused.., At what point is it time to evaluate you ask? I think when things are in place and have had time to properly mature and develop.
Let me give you an example that may help (I hope it does) Last year, we saw lots of problem with McCoy. they were evident. But I also didn't believe that with all that went on, that it was totally fair to evaluate him without looking at more than just his mistakes.
I felt there was more than one problem and I wanted to see McCoy with better receivers, a running game and a better right tackle. if he couldn't get it done then.. then the evaluation is complete.. he's not the guy.
did that help?
Nice post. That's a great way to look at things. Unfortunately, people that enjoy debate won't like that approach because it disarms them.
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The first four games for this young team are all about building confidence and while competitive losses aren't the end of the world, victories build confidence.... This team needs to know it can win...
If I had to put it into one sentence, the first 4 games will go a long way in telling me whether I'm likely going to even want to watch the last 4 games.
yebat' Putin
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It's time when it's time. I mean you seem to agree that we don't really know or at least accept that we don't. You seem to think there is merit to not having enough time and that it needs to grow.
So I'm kinda confused.., At what point is it time to evaluate you ask? I think when things are in place and have had time to properly mature and develop.
Let me give you an example that may help (I hope it does) Last year, we saw lots of problem with McCoy. they were evident. But I also didn't believe that with all that went on, that it was totally fair to evaluate him without looking at more than just his mistakes.
I felt there was more than one problem and I wanted to see McCoy with better receivers, a running game and a better right tackle. if he couldn't get it done then.. then the evaluation is complete.. he's not the guy.
did that help?
Nice post. That's a great way to look at things. Unfortunately, people that enjoy debate won't like that approach because it disarms them.
It's a managment approach kinda thing.
Now, having said all of that, the Browns did indeed go out and draft Weeden in the first found. That to me makes a statement that they felt they needed an improvement at that position.
For me, anytime you can improve a position, you do it. personalities aside,, to improve is to improve.. when you can, you do. (caviat below)
They did say they wanted that receiver (name escapes me but I think it was Kendall Wright) but he went a couple of picks before we took Weeden.
What would they have done if Wright (if that's who it was) was there at 22nd. Would they still have gone Weeden or not.
They probably thought that there was no way Weeden lasts until the second round
Obviously, we'll never know.
CAVIAT: saying that you should improve a position if you can is true of course. But let's say that a guy was available that would replace Joe Thomas.. someone so good that he could/would make Joe look expendable... I guess if you got no other problems to solve, sure,, why not.. But if you have other needs, greater needs,, trade the pick, and fill lots of holes with what you get in return.
That's about the only time I could see passing on an obvious improvement at a position.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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NRTU
Glad to see everyone here is so high on the Browns this season..
I lean more towards the Vegas odds and the talking heads predictions, even though I pray they are wrong...
This team is going to struggle this year, and especially so if Pat has a heavy hand again in the offense..
Pat IMO is the thing that scares me the most..
Last season he had a hard time knowing when to take a TO of except or decline a penalty. That SCARES the bee jesus out of me when I see it...
If he eccepts the roll of figure head I think we have a shot (maybe) but if he tries to be a real HC or OC for that matter we are doomed.......
JMHO
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BTTB
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I have a problem with Shurmur as well, but it's not the same as yours. Actually I really only remember a couple of times where I thought he mishandled TOs or penalties. I don't really think that was a problem.
The problem was his O. It was an absolutely putrid, archaic, could be defended by a pee wee team pitiful excuse for an offense.
I'm hoping Colt was holding the offense back....that's his get out of jail free card right now. I hope that's the reality of it. I guess we will see.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
I have a problem with Shurmur as well, but it's not the same as yours. Actually I really only remember a couple of times where I thought he mishandled TOs or penalties. I don't really think that was a problem.
The problem was his O. It was an absolutely putrid, archaic, could be defended by a pee wee team pitiful excuse for an offense.
I'm hoping Colt was holding the offense back....that's his get out of jail free card right now. I hope that's the reality of it. I guess we will see.
It's a process to install a new system, especially the WCO and as a Coach you have to start with the basic version, before you can build on that with new wrinkles (building from the foundation) and also knowing your players and putting them in the best possible situations that suits their talents, so I'm not going to formulate an opinion on Shurmur's coaching abilities based on the body of prof we have to go on from last season.
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I have a problem with Shurmur as well, but it's not the same as yours. Actually I really only remember a couple of times where I thought he mishandled TOs or penalties. I don't really think that was a problem.
The problem was his O. It was an absolutely putrid, archaic, could be defended by a pee wee team pitiful excuse for an offense.
I'm hoping Colt was holding the offense back....that's his get out of jail free card right now. I hope that's the reality of it. I guess we will see.
It's a process to install a new system, especially the WCO and as a Coach you have to start with the basic version, before you can build on that with new wrinkles (building from the foundation) and also knowing your players and putting them in the best possible situations that suits their talents, so I'm not going to formulate an opinion on Shurmur's coaching abilities based on the body of prof we have to go on from last season.
Then you do stick to basics and basics IMO are take time outs when needed, and take or decline penalties. That has little to do with installing and offesne I know but I think (could be wrong here) that is basic 101 coaching..
He came out of the gates last season calling games for a team that doesn't exist in Cleveland. He should have watched more game tape of the players he did HAVE (again my opinion). That would have allowed him the chance to build up slowly.
But number one in my mind was he didn't protect Colt. Now don't get me wrong I think Colt is a fine young man but he is NOT a franchise QB, that said you can't call the game like you have a franchise QB taking snaps, you have to call a game to protect him, and he failed on that front at every turn. The climax of which was sending him back onto the field after the Harrison hit.
Afterwords he claimed side line confusion which I believe........ 
BTTB
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I don't know enough about the whole concussion thing, but I think the play calling definitely at least appeared to protect Colt.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Care to expound on that???
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I don't know enough about the whole concussion thing, but I think the play calling definitely at least appeared to protect Colt.
It wasn't just Colt they were "protecting." Implementing the WCO without a proper off-season was enough of a hole to be in. Not having the horses at, basically, ANY of the skill positions to adequately run the offense just made it that much more difficult to get very deep into the playbook.
Getting back to the thread subject... I think we'll struggle again this year because of a rookie QB and a crappy WR corps that probably wouldn't start on any other NFL team (particularly at the outset). However, hopefully the offense will improve as the season goes on and the OL gels and the game starts to slow down a little for Weeden and Richardson. I would love to be wrong on this, but I expect the first four games to be pretty brutal.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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The problem was his O. It was an absolutely putrid, archaic, could be defended by a pee wee team pitiful excuse for an offense.
I'm hoping Colt was holding the offense back....that's his get out of jail free card right now. I hope that's the reality of it. I guess we will see.
I believe it was. You can't call plays your QB and offense can't execute. I mean as vanilla as the O playcalling was, we really didn't even execute that well.....
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I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make or if you're elaborating on my post since I don't disagree with you.
However, to respond to BTTB, the offense appeared to progress toward much "safer" play calling IMO throughout the season with Colt at the helm. I felt like either the execution or the play calling became more aggressive with Wallace. Not saying Wallace is better by any means.
With Colt I saw a lot of shorter routes, 5 yd curls, etc. lots of plays to keep the receivers close, enable a quicker release.
There's one thing I do think though thatShurmur has to improve with his play calling. I feel like we ran up the middle almost constantly on 1st down. Almost like it was a given.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I think it's the last half of the season that's really going to tell the story. If we improve almost 100% over last year, (7-9 to 8-8) how can anyone really complain about that, especialy with a couple of wins in the division. i  n
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J/C
It's very early to start predicting anything. I'm always a big believer in HAVING to win one of your first two games (and I really stress winning your first one if you're a perennial loser).
That being said, I highly doubt we're anything but 1-3.
Eagles - almost a definite loss
Bengals - probably a loss, but a better chance to win than Philly
Bills - our most winnable game obviously
Ravens - almost a definite loss
1-3 or 0-4 ... and then the draft
Bills - our most winnable game obvious? please explain about it being an easy win
I was born a BuffaloBills fan always and forever
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most-winnable does not mean easy. Bengals and Ravens made the playoffs last year and the Eagles still have more talent on their team than Buffalo, despite your upgrades.
In fact, he said 1-3 or 0-4, meaning winning no more than one game.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 06/22/12 03:38 PM.
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With the loss of Benson, and the assumed slump of Dalton (Seriously, just cover AJ Green, and when he tosses it up, catch it. ) I would actually put Cincy below Buffalo.. They get Jackson back, Williams on D. If Fitzpatrick can find whatever he had in the first 7 games last year, look out...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c
It will only tell us what we already know. We have rookies at RB, QB and the RT positions. And it will most likely show early on.....
The first four won't tell us much. And if people are expecting some kind of miracle with roolies at all of those positions in the first four games?
"All aboard the hate train! It's leaving the station early!"
But the last four will tell us how much they have progressed and give us some type of picture we will have moving forward.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The first 4 games will tell us why we are all still Browns fans.  Or Why we will have alot of free outdoor time Sunday afternoons later in the fall.  Funny, yet sad I expect. 
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Green Ellis is a upgrade over Benson.....Benson so great he's still out of work.
Dalton is a better QB than Fitzy.
Cincy's o-line is better.
Bills running game has the edge.
defenses are about even.
Green is hard to defend. I watched him go up over 3 Steelers and come down with it.
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AJ Green is like Calvin Johnson on estrogen.
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I remember a team who had a slew of offensive pro bowlers, including WR, QB, LT, and TE. Had a good record that same year.
Then they finished 4-12 the next season because everyone figured them out.
Any given Sunday...
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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The first four games will tell us we have twelve more to play in the regular season.
You play 16 games. So much takes place each and every week. Over the season injuries play a huge factor because every team gets hurts by injuries. The teams with good depth handle it.The ones with poor depth go down the tubes.
Every year there are teams that start strong and end poorly.
For the Browns so much will ride on the play of the QB. We have some pieces but we are a young team. Until we know what to expect from Weeden are future will remain unpredictable.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Green Ellis is a upgrade over Benson.....
No he isn't.
Quote:
Dalton is a better QB than Fitzy.
No he isn't.
Quote:
Cincy's o-line is better.
No it isn't.
Quote:
Bills running game has the edge.
Yes it does.
Quote:
defenses are about even.
No they aren't.
...See, I can make vague statements without anything to back them up too. Really helps the discussion doesn't it?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
And now an actual response... Quote:
Green Ellis is a upgrade over Benson.....
Cincy replaced their starting RB who was the KEY to their last few successful seasons, with a part timer from a non-running team that drafted 2 other RBs last year...
Quote:
Dalton is a better QB than Fitzy.
Fitzpatrick is light years ahead of Dalton. He struggled after the first half last season when injuries to Buffalo started piling up. Dalton seemingly started out well last year, but if you actually watched him play, he was barely above average.
Quote:
Cincy's o-line is better.
...Why?
Quote:
Bills running game has the edge.
Yeah, Because they have 3 good RBs, Cincy may not even have 1.
Quote:
defenses are about even.
Assuming we're talking about on paper, seeing as games haven't been played yet. The addition of Mario Williams puts buffalo over the top.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How much will the 1st 4 games tell
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