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Plus the jobs numbers for the past 2 months have been revised down pretty significantly. We have got to create some certainty for business, and work to create a way for businesses to repatriate capital to this country. Our corporate tax rate is the highest is the world, and we wonder why no one is anxious to start or expand businesses in this country .....  May jobs report: Hiring slows, unemployment rises - Jun. 1, 2012 http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/01/news/economy/may-jobs-report/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Businesses hired shockingly few workers in May, throwing into doubt the strength of the economic recovery. Only 69,000 jobs were added last month, the weakest growth in a year. The unemployment rate rose to 8.2%, the first uptick since last June. Economists surveyed by CNNMoney had expected to see employers add 150,000 jobs and the unemployment rate to remain at 8.1%. Revisions from previous months also showed the economy gained 49,000 fewer jobs in March and April than originally thought. Private companies sharply cut back on hiring last month, adding only a meager 82,000 jobs. Employment increased in health care, transportation and wholesale trade. Manufacturing continued to add positions, albeit at a slower pace than earlier this year. Construction, however, suffered its largest decline in two years. The public sector continued to shed jobs, losing 13,000 in May. Economy: Are you better off? The overall figure stunned most economists, who laid the blame for the slow growth at the feet of Europe and Washington D.C. The steady drumbeat of headlines concerning Europe's financial woes, as well as the looming fiscal cliff in the U.S., is weighing on consumer confidence. Adding to the problems is the slowdown in the Chinese economy. "It was really shockingly low," said Bill Dunkelberg, chief economist for the National Federation of Independent Business, who said small businesses have pulled back from hiring because they aren't getting more customers. Meanwhile, the so-called underemployment rate rose to 14.8%, after falling or holding steady so far this year. Some experts say this rate is a better measure of the job market's health since it also includes people who could only get part-time positions and who have looked for a job at some point in the past year. The rising unemployment rate contained a glimmer of good news. It increased because 642,000 people re-entered the labor force, often a sign of economic optimism. Economists attribute the jump to graduating college students looking for jobs earlier, as well as jobs created at start-up businesses not captured by survey of established employers which produces the closely-followed payroll number. Still, the report marks a major turnaround from the beginning of the year. Job growth started off strong in the first two months of 2012, thanks in part to warmer weather that boosted hiring in construction and some other industries. But it now seems clear that the economy is not strong enough to sustain monthly job growth that exceeds 200,000, economists said. Gross domestic product, the broadest measure of the nation's economic health, grew at an annual rate of 1.9% in the first quarter, significantly slower than the 3% growth rate at the end of last year. As a result, employers don't feel the need to boost their payrolls. "It's not like businesses are being swamped with demands for goods and services," said Sean Snaith, an economist with the University of Central Florida. At the same time, companies are being very cautious because of the events in the U.S. and abroad. That isn't likely to change anytime soon, especially with the U.S. presidential election looming in November. "Whenever uncertainty abounds, it's hard to open the floodgates on hiring," said Ellen Zentner, senior economist at Nomura Securities. "I would expect to see anemic hiring persist over the next few months." But the overall job market still has a long way to go to climb out of the deep hole left by the financial crisis. Of the 8.8 million jobs lost, only about 3.8 million have been added back. Roughly 12.7 million Americans remain unemployed, and 42.8% of them have been so for six months or more. The number of long-term unemployed rose to 5.4 million, up from 5.1 million. Correction: An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated the number of jobs in the private sector. There were 82,000 jobs created in the private sector in May.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We have got to create some certainty for business, and work to create a way for businesses to repatriate capital to this country. Our corporate tax rate is the highest is the world, and we wonder why no one is anxious to start or expand businesses in this country .....
The corporate tax rate is not why we're struggling to produce jobs. It's not even really a minor symptom. Lowering it would do very, very little in terms of the problems we're facing economically.
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There's a quote in here from a Democrat how "We have made progress" ..... Really? If this is progress, I'd hate to see regression ...... Boehner, Romney pounce on dismal May jobs report | Fox News http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/...ical-indicator/House Speaker John Boehner joined Mitt Romney and other Republicans in expressing concern about the bleak May unemployment report released Friday, saying "Americans are hurting." The report shows the fewest number of new jobs created in a year and unemployment rising to 8.2 percent, which also elicited swift criticism of President Obama by Republican leaders who hammered home their election-year message that the president has had three years to create more jobs and revive the U.S. economy -- and he's "failed." "Another month of disappointing job gains, said Boehner, R-Ohio. "It's pretty clear that the American people are hurting, small continue to avert hiring any additional people, and it's clear that the policies that we've seen are not working." Romney, the GOP presidential candidate, said the report was "devastating news for American workers and American families,” “It is now clear to everyone that President Obama’s policies have failed to achieve their goals and that the Obama economy is crushing America’s middle class,” he said. Earlier Friday, House Speaker John Boehner said the president’s “failed policies have made high unemployment and a weak economy the sad new normal for families and small businesses.” He was joined by House Majority Leader Eric Cantor who declared, "The American people really deserved better... and under new leadership I believe we can do better.” Democrats were quick to defend the president. “Problems in the job market were long in the making and will not be solved overnight,” said Alan Kruger, chairman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers. “The economy lost jobs for 25 straight months beginning in February 2008, and over 8 million jobs were lost as a result of the Great Recession. We are still fighting back from the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression." Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee said the president and the rest of the party have made progress but more is needed. “We have made progress, said Van Hollen, D-Md. “Today's jobs numbers show we need to make further progress. But let's learn the right lessons from what happened in the past. Because if we diagnose wrongly, then we won't have the right prescription.” The president is expected to speak this afternoon about the report. U.S. employers created 69,000 jobs in May, the fewest in a year, and the unemployment rate ticked up. The dismal jobs figures are also fan fears that the economy is sputtering, with stock prices falling on Wall Street. The Labor Department also says the economy created far fewer jobs in the previous two months than first thought. It revised those figures down to show 49,000 fewer jobs created.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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We have got to create some certainty for business, and work to create a way for businesses to repatriate capital to this country. Our corporate tax rate is the highest is the world, and we wonder why no one is anxious to start or expand businesses in this country .....
The corporate tax rate is not why we're struggling to produce jobs. It's not even really a minor symptom. Lowering it would do very, very little in terms of the problems we're facing economically.
It is a factor. We can debate how much or little a factor it is, but it is a cost that US corporations pass on to consumers as part of their pricing structure, that foreign companies do not have to calculate into their pricing structure.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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You can be a very good writer, but you just kill discussion on a subject because all it turns into is a distant monologue.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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You can be a very good writer, but you just kill discussion on a subject because all it turns into is a distant monologue.
How so? By responding to a comment? By posting my opinions?
I'm curious as to why you feel that way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I see where the President, who has touted every decent economic report as a credit to his own policies and the success of his own agenda has handled this negative report like a true politician... and blamed congress, Europe and gas prices which are all outside of his control. 
yebat' Putin
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The whole mantra you're promoting about the corporate tax being the biggest hindrance to business in this country is a horse that's been beaten ad nauseum, yet you continue to ignore how sweatshop labor on the dime overseas is by far the biggest factor. That- and in the Marriage Equality thread- you continued to dodge how your stringent "No gay marriage!" attitude wasn't you forcing your morality on others while you moaned about the gay community trying to "rub the religious' nose in it". We know what you think before you even type it. So I basically gear up for a Rush Limbaugh-esque diatribe anytime I see your user name.
But hey, go on changing the multitudes of minds as you have over the years on these boards. You might just get a couple independents to vote Republican (while swaying thirty to vote Democrat) and the country will still be run the same. Blah.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Don't be silly - unemployment went up because Bush returned to the White House yesterday. His mere presence for the unveiling of his portrait caused unemployment to spike.
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Unemployment Rate Rises Again
then.....
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Only 69,000 jobs were added last month, the weakest growth in a year. The unemployment rate rose to 8.2%, the first uptick since last June.
Your title is a bit misleading...If I hadn't been up on current times, I would have thought it was back in 2009 when the rate kept rising month after month. This is the first uptick in a year, which to me sounds pretty damn good. And to be honest, most years have good months and bad months. May is normally a down month as businesses prepare for the summer onslaught of new hires from kids out of school and are trimming for the 3rd quarter (or 2nd quarter depending on accounting) numbers.
I am neither for nor against .....Just saying that the tone of the presentation leads to a preferred reaction. Which is exactly what a lot of posters blast most news sources and stations for doing.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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I see where the President, who has touted every decent economic report as a credit to his own policies and the success of his own agenda has handled this negative report like a true politician... and blamed congress, Europe and gas prices which are all outside of his control.
I don't understand why Obama is anymore to blame than Bush was for starting this mess..
But I guess by saying that, I'll now proceed to get beat on to within an inch of my life......LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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However - parse the numbers a bit. Unemployment is figured a certain way......that is favorable to the administration at this point.
Take todays gross numbers and factor them in the unemployment calculation from say, 10 years ago - or 20 years ago.........I wonder what the percentage would be.
(people that are off the unemployment benefits thingy don't count towards current unemployment numbers......to my understanding)
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Our corporate tax rate is the highest is the world, and we wonder why no one is anxious to start or expand businesses in this country .....
Reality Check: Effective U.S. Corporate Tax Rate Much Lower Than Most Other Developed Nations
Mar 30, 2012
Republicans have been kvetching today about the fact that, as of Sunday, the U.S. will have the highest statutory corporate tax rate in the world following a scheduled cut in Japan’s corporate tax. “The United States is a world leader in countless ways. ‘World’s Highest Taxes’ is a title we should give up as soon as possible,” wrote Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY) in a Fox News op-ed.
“This isn’t an April Fool’s Day joke; as of April 1, the United States of America will have reached the inauspicious position of having the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) in a statement “I want America to be number one in many things, but having the highest corporate tax rate is definitely not one of them.”
This is constant refrain from Republicans, who then blame the supposedly high U.S. corporate tax rate for discouraging job creation. But as we’ve noted time and time again, while the U.S. has a high statutory corporate tax rate (meaning the rate on paper), U.S. corporations actually pay incredibly low taxes due to the ever-proliferating loopholes, credits, and deductions in the tax code and the use of overseas tax havens.
U.S. corporate taxes that were actually paid (the effective rate) fell to a 40 year low of 12.1 percent in fiscal year 2011, despite corporate profits rebounding to their pre-Great Recession heights. The U.S. both taxes its corporations less and raises less in revenue from corporate taxes than its foreign competitors:
Click link below to see graph...
Politico’s Ben White also pointed out that Japan has a value added tax, so it isn’t actually true that the U.S. will have the highest corporate tax rate on Sunday. As billionaire investor Warren Buffett has said, “it is a myth” that U.S. corporate taxes are high. “Corporate taxes are not strangling American competitiveness,” Buffett added.
Of course, it is theoretically possible to lower the U.S. corporate income tax rate while simultaneously raising revenue to help reduce the federal deficit by closing loopholes and cracking down on tax havens. But Republicans have absolutely no interest in that.
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However - parse the numbers a bit. Unemployment is figured a certain way......that is favorable to the administration at this point.
Take todays gross numbers and factor them in the unem ployment calculation from say, 10 years ago - or 20 years ago.........I wonder what the percentage would be.
(people that are off the unemployment benefits thingy don't count towards current unemployment numbers......to my understanding)
you are correct about that.. if your unemployment benefits have run out, you basically get lost in the statistical never never land,..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't understand why Obama is anymore to blame than Bush was for starting this mess.
I don't know ... was Bush to blame for the economy back in 2004 when he was running for re-election? You know, when everyone said the economy was terrible and it was all Bush's fault because unemployment was a paltry 5.9%, the stock market was in bad shape after it's bubble burst during Clinton's last term, and terrorism that went largely unchecked during the 90's managed to kill the tourism industry?
But now that unemployment has dipped to over 8%, despite no major crisis (like a terrorist attack), the housing market still hasn't recovered from it's bubble burst, and the number of people on government assistance is at all time highs ... well, that's just the previous guy's fault. 
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The whole mantra you're promoting about the corporate tax being the biggest hindrance to business in this country is a horse that's been beaten ad nauseum, yet you continue to ignore how sweatshop labor on the dime overseas is by far the biggest factor. That- and in the Marriage Equality thread- you continued to dodge how your stringent "No gay marriage!" attitude wasn't you forcing your morality on others while you moaned about the gay community trying to "rub the religious' nose in it". We know what you think before you even type it. So I basically gear up for a Rush Limbaugh-esque diatribe anytime I see your user name.
But hey, go on changing the multitudes of minds as you have over the years on these boards. You might just get a couple independents to vote Republican (while swaying thirty to vote Democrat) and the country will still be run the same. Blah.
I have never said that the corporate tax rate was the only reason for the economic problems, and , in fact, I never really said that it is the biggest reason. There have been a whole list of things that I have suggested to get the economy and hiring going again, but tax rates are one thing that does affect hiring. There are a number of other items, and I have gone through my personal list of those items numerous times as well.
Right now the biggest problem this country faces is uncertainty. No one knows what it will cost to employ a person when Obamacare takes effect .... if it takes effect ... and no one knows what tax rates will be next year. It's almost impossible to make any business decisions as far as hiring when this is the case. I'd add an "IMHO" .... but there's no opinion about it. Ask anyone who runs a business, and these are 2 of the main reasons they aren't hiring ... along with general uncertainty (and fear) about whether we are sliding back into recession again.
As far as gay marriage, I don't want to see the meaning of the word "marriage" changed to suit someone else's agenda. I believe that there should be a secular accommodation for gay couples who want a legal and binding joining, but it's not marriage. It's a union, or whatever you want to call it .... but it's not a traditional marriage. I am probably to the left of most of the country in that I do believe that we should offer a civil union for gay couples, and for straight couples who do not believe in a religious basis for their marriage. That was everyone wins ..... but instead one side is supposed to completely compromise its moral beliefs because that's somehow "fair".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Do all of those graphs and numbers include the taxes that corporations pay to the states or just federal taxes?
yebat' Putin
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"Think Progress.com" ..... wonder what side of the political aisle they come down on ........"
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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"Think Progress.com" ..... wonder what side of the political aisle they come down on ........"
You should have known that from the Buffett quotes.. he is, after all, the only person in the country that understands economics... it's hard to read a tax or economics related article from the left without seeing at least one of his quotes dragged out. Buffett's rich and successful and whatever he says is gospel... the CEO of Exxon is rich and successful and whatever he says is greedy and satanic. 
yebat' Putin
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"Think Progress.com" ..... wonder what side of the political aisle they come down on ........"
You should have known that from the Buffett quotes.. he is, after all, the only person in the country that understands economics... it's hard to read a tax or economics related article from the left without seeing at least one of his quotes dragged out. Buffett's rich and successful and whatever he says is gospel... the CEO of Exxon is rich and successful and whatever he says is greedy and satanic.
well that's because Buffett says it's not fair that he's so rich and others are so poor. of course, he could easily rectify that situation and chooses not to, but the important thing is what he says not what he does.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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"Think Progress.com" ..... wonder what side of the political aisle they come down on ........"
You should have known that from the Buffett quotes.. he is, after all, the only person in the country that understands economics... it's hard to read a tax or economics related article from the left without seeing at least one of his quotes dragged out. Buffett's rich and successful and whatever he says is gospel... the CEO of Exxon is rich and successful and whatever he says is greedy and satanic.
well that's because Buffett says it's not fair that he's so rich and others are so poor. of course, he could easily rectify that situation and chooses not to, but the important thing is what he says not what he does.
Except for the fact that he's pledged to give away 99% of his wealth.
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wow,, major deflection there bud...LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Statistics here are like stats in football. I can take any statistic and prove anything I want. It's just a matter of perspective and overall data.
I wasn't so much concerned with the actual numbers as I was about how it was framed. I don't get into the political debates too much. I read some from time to time, enough to know where each one of the more active posters political leanings are. But I see posters from all sides snipe at the various reporters and news services for "framing" or "leaning" to one side or another with a different wording instead of just providing the information and letting one make up their mind. The title was exactly that.
And since the numbers can be taken every way, that's fine if you really want to get down to it, just use the same metric consistently and you will find a relative average. Since we are using the public unemployment numbers, and that metric doesn't change (meaning the unemployed that have used all their allotment and are no longer on the books, and this is the same way as it was a year ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago) then if that shows a increase, then it is a real increase. Just as a decrease is a real decrease. One decrease in a year is not a bad thing. Not at all.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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We see the unemployment rate each month .... but what really concerns me is the reports I hear of other rates ...... such as the unemployment rate when those who have dropped out of the work force because they have given up being added back in being somewhere between 10-12% ....... and when underemployment is factored in, the rate hits almost 25%.
That's an ugly situation. It's also unlikely to improve if the cost of employment increases with Obamacare's requirements. If it costs an employer $2000 per employee to fulfill the requirements of the law, and each employee averages $20,000 in wages, that means that for every 10 employees, someone's almost certainly going to lose a job, or the employer will go into the red because of the additional cost of employment.
Add in massive uncertainty about taxes, the economy, and so on ..... and I don't see how it improves anytime soon ... especially if this President is re-elected.
The thing that really worries me is that I see us plunging back into recession as early as the end of this year. The economy can only sputter for so long before it stalls completely. Whether Obama or Romney wins the Presidential election, I have a feeling that they are going to have a real mess on their hands.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We see the unemployment rate each month .... but what really concerns me is the reports I hear of other rates ...... such as the unemployment rate when those who have dropped out of the work force because they have given up being added back in being somewhere between 10-12% ....... and when underemployment is factored in, the rate hits almost 25%.
That's an ugly situation. It's also unlikely to improve if the cost of employment increases with Obamacare's requirements. If it costs an employer $2000 per employee to fulfill the requirements of the law, and each employee averages $20,000 in wages, that means that for every 10 employees, someone's almost certainly going to lose a job, or the employer will go into the red because of the additional cost of employment.
Add in massive uncertainty about taxes, the economy, and so on ..... and I don't see how it improves anytime soon ... especially if this President is re-elected.
The thing that really worries me is that I see us plunging back into recession as early as the end of this year. The economy can only sputter for so long before it stalls completely. Whether Obama or Romney wins the Presidential election, I have a feeling that they are going to have a real mess on their hands.
Being in the employment field, the thing I"ve seen more of than anything other than pure unemployment, is UNDEREMPLOYMENT.
I interviewed an Oracle Project Manager who, because he got ill 7 years ago, was out of work (due to illness for 3 years, hard fought battle against cancer and he's beaten it) But that 3 years away scares employers away.
Now it's 7 years later, the only job he's been able to get is Department manager at a Lowes home Improvement store. I think I"m going to actually be able to place him in a few weeks in a lower end Project Manager position where he can grow and enhance his skills. it won't be the same money he was making before, but it's way better (almost double) than what he's making at Lowes today.
Maybe it will work out for him, maybe it won't. But if we pull this off, it will be a feather in my cap for believing in him and a feather in his cap for being able to get the job.
Under employment,, Really big issue. Funny thing is, a whole lot of that comes from engineering jobs being shipped off shore.
You can hire 10 Mechanical Engineers in Romania for about a 1/4 of what it would cost in the States.. there is a huge adustment period, and a language barrier to overcome, but it can be done.
Middle income jobs that used to pay 12 to 20 bucks an hour are being done in India for pennies on the dollar. So those that were working in those jobs are now doing lesser jobs and much lesser pay. Fair pay for the job they got, but compared to what they were making,,, way low.
The middle class is getting killed.. and frankly, we're the ones that made/make this country great. they are the ones that this country was built on..
And we give tax breaks to companies that are killing those jobs and that class of people..
can someone tell me what's good about that and why we should continue...
by the way, I'm really glad you brought that up,, keep in mind,, the loss of jobs due to outsourcing didn't start under Obama, but it hasn't stopped under the Obama administration as it was supposed to (Promised to by the way). Which is one of several reasons for my displeasure with him.
until the middle class can reclaim it's source of income, this entire economy isn't going to improve in any meaningful way.
to me there is a simple solution to our economic woes.. JOBS. More people working is decent wage jobs means more purchasing power, more income tax revenue, fewer people eating up our budgets by being on the public dole..
Simple solution,, difficult to get done....
>RANT OFF<
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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... but instead one side is supposed to completely compromise its moral beliefs because that's somehow "fair".
He's pointing out that, as many have, including myself, you have still yet to give one single example of how your morals are compromised.
'Completely compromising'? 
You are in no way, shape or form compromising your moral beliefs. Not even in the slightest.
Nobody is saying 'you now have to be comfortable with gay marriage.
Nobody is saying you have to attend a gay wedding.
Nobody is saying your church has to preside over a gay wedding.
You are totally free to say 'I don't consider that marriage.'
Your morality is left completely intact. It isn't compromised one iota.
Your argument simply boils down to 'I want the law to reflect my morality', and the Supreme Court has roundly rejected that notion on several occasions. They've actually said point blank that moral disapproval cannot justify discrimination.
Your morals shouldn't and don't dictate the laws of the country. The morals of the Bible have no place in our system of law.
And as for changing the meaning of marriage ... we've been doing that forever. Up until 1967, a dozen or so states defined marriage as the union of two people of the same race. Way back when, it was a financial transaction. It's meaning has been shifting for centuries.
This is actually what he's talking about ... you state a convoluted and irrational opinion, and when that's pointed out to you, you stick to it anyway, and disregard anything pointing to the flaws in your thinking.
Cheap labor is the driving factor. Regulations are another big one. Corporate tax rates are way, way, way, way down the line. Our tax rates are pretty much on par with our competition. When you get down to the bigger players and their deductions, it's pretty much within 5% or so, sometimes pretty even. Yet you fail to acknowledge this every time, because you've already decided your opinion.
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Actually, it would be like Buddhists using the term "catechism" for one of their rituals. It is not the same thing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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We have got to create some certainty for business, and work to create a way for businesses to repatriate capital to this country. Our corporate tax rate is the highest is the world, and we wonder why no one is anxious to start or expand businesses in this country .....
I disagree wholeheartedly. Its not about corporate tax rate, individual tax rate, regulation, Obamacare, etc. Our economic problems can be boiled down to a fairly simple premise.
Misallocation of capital from all over the world to the housing market by American financial firms led to a housing bubble that burst, followed by rising unemployment and consequently rising over-indebtedness in the US, thus crushing aggregate demand in the US. Recession in the US spilled over to trading partners in Europe and elsewhere and led to unemployment and over-indebtedness, crushing demand worldwide. As a result of these catastrophic losses, capital the world over has zero appetite for risk, and thus isn't investing in world markets like they were before.
Those are the main points, the housing bubble bursting drove unmployment, consequent low demand drives more unemployment, which drives over-indebtedness, both of which reinforce low demand. On the capital side, fear of low demand and low risk appetite (b/c trillions disappeared overnight by the artificial housing market) are preventing investment, which is why corporations are sitting on trillions in capital.
If you don't think this is true that everything can be so connected, ask yourself if you think it is a coincidence that as the stimulus runs out, our economy is sliding back towards recession, Europe is getting worse, and now China is slowing.
It will take a long time for the world private sector to recover from such a huge capital distortion (something like 5-10% of world GDP disappeared virtually overnight). In the meantime, governments should put people to work doing things that are necessary for future economic growth, thus driving employment and demand. Debt needs to be restructured at many levels as it has no chance of being repaid in full, which would help drive more demand. Finally, the world needs to get a handle on the financial markets. If the immense pool of capital out there thinks the financial markets are still able to play games creating artificial markets and lose trillions of dollars overnight, no one will take the risks required for growth.
Here is an interesting piece on the housing crisis for anyone interested;
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/355/the-giant-pool-of-money
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As far as gay marriage, I don't want to see the meaning of the word "marriage" changed to suit someone else's agenda. I believe that there should be a secular accommodation for gay couples who want a legal and binding joining, but it's not marriage. It's a union, or whatever you want to call it .... but it's not a traditional marriage. I am probably to the left of most of the country in that I do believe that we should offer a civil union for gay couples, and for straight couples who do not believe in a religious basis for their marriage. That was everyone wins ..... but instead one side is supposed to completely compromise its moral beliefs because that's somehow "fair".
The religious meaning does not need to change. If religious institution want to refuse to marry gay couples, that is fine. But the day that marriage became a governmental thing is the day that every person in this country is entitled to the same rights in marriage, at least in the eyes of the government.
If you want to protect the word "marriage" so much, don't you also think that gay people want to use the word same amount? The government recognizes marriage, so it should recognize marriage and the benefits it bestows on everyone.
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This is what happens when you elect democrats. We've had almost 20 years of exclusively democrat ideas being forwarded. Rino's acting like democrats doing what the democrats want, only at a slightly less drastic way. This is Obama's fault. The economy tanked as soon as he locked up the nomination, anyone trying to blame Bush, can just be assured this economy tanked because it became clear Obama even had a 50/50 chance of being elected. It's not just because he is Obama, but because he is a democrat, and ANY democrat would do the same anti american policies that Obama has. Democrats are socialists, and this is socialism. It could partially be the fault of NAFTA. It doesn't matter who is in charge going forward, it is only going to get worse, because the puppet masters behind the scenes want to turn America into Mexico.  That's progress. Rino's and democrats, it is communist and socialist either way. It is going to end with millions dead, communism always does. What do I mean anti american? Anti capitalism. Anti progress, Anti production Anti manufacturing - to exporting- to sales outside of America. Anti putting America First and bringing wealth back to America. All anything this goverment does is send wealth to the rest of the world at the expense of America. I wan't no part of it. It must be stopped. What is the highlight of an Obama presidency? What would be the highlight of a Romney preisdency? NOTHING! EITHER ONE! They all stink.
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This is Obama's fault. The economy tanked as soon as he locked up the nomination, anyone trying to blame Bush, can just be assured this economy tanked because it became clear Obama even had a 50/50 chance of being elected.
the economy began tanking long before Obama locked up the nomination.
You need a history lessen. Start looking at 2004 and watch the bankruptcy filings and home foreclosures and jobs being shipped overseas..
Obama wasn't even a blip on the screen at that point. try as you might to blame Obama for everything that ails this country, it won't work unless you get some facts straight..
Clinton built an economy on eggshells.., Bush had the opportunity to address it, but then 9/11 happened and honestly, I think that may have derailed his plans.
Be that as it may, to assert that it was Obamas fault that this mess started, well, that's just dumb thinking..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Actually, it would be like Buddhists using the term "catechism" for one of their rituals. It is not the same thing.
I honestly don't understand what that means, nor how it relates to your moral beliefs being compromised by gay marriage being legal.
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People want to complain when someone says that "Republicans always have to fix the mess" ... but often, on the state level, at least, that does seem to be the pattern. Ohio was a disaster, and had to take massive amounts of federal aid in Strickland's last year just to balance the budget. Today we have a balanced state budget, and Kasich is planning state income tax cuts. Employment is on the rise, and I read that Ohio has gone from near the bottom in the country in job creation to top 5 in the country. In fact, Ohio was #1 in the country this past February in job creation. We went from losing 400,000 jobs under Strickland to creating jobs at a level above that of most of the country. Wisconsin has turned around their massive deficit, and is creating jobs and cutting taxes. It'll be interesting to see how the recall comes out. Texas has done a good job creating jobs and running a balanced budget. In fact, I think that anyone who wants to check will find that most of the top states in job creation have Republican Governors. (and probably statehouses as well) What I don't get is why this can't translate to the federal level. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ohio is also the biggest oil fracking state right now, and there are thousands of jobs being added through that. Definitely great for the state, but it had nothing to do with Strickland or Kasich.
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but it had nothing to do with Strickland or Kasich.
Careful......On this board not blaming a Democrat for all your ills is akin to heresy.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I thought fracking was banned - or temporarily shut down. I must be wrong.
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I thought fracking was banned - or temporarily shut down. I must be wrong.
Production has slowed because the market is flooded with natural gas now and the prices plummeted. That should ease some going forward as many companies are gearing things to run on natural gas because of the cheap cost.
Locally, there are 2 $100 million+ facilties being built just to service fracking. I believe it is suppose to add over 400 jobs and this is in towns of under 5000 people.
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People want to complain when someone says that "Republicans always have to fix the mess" ... but often, on the state level, at least, that does seem to be the pattern.
Ohio was a disaster, and had to take massive amounts of federal aid in Strickland's last year just to balance the budget.
Today we have a balanced state budget, and Kasich is planning state income tax cuts. Employment is on the rise, and I read that Ohio has gone from near the bottom in the country in job creation to top 5 in the country. In fact, Ohio was #1 in the country this past February in job creation.
Ohio was a disaster b/c of the worst recession since the Great Depression. Not any policies any particular politician put forth on the state level. Revenues dropped by more than 50% in one year.
We have a balanced budget b/c Ohio had to take federal aid to close the gap in 2009-2010, just like the vast majority of states. There is no brilliant state or local policy at the root of that.
As far as job growth, it has slowed in most states across the country over the last two months. If I had to guess why, it would be b/c the US, EU and Chinese stimulus plans are all winding down. The global economy is still struggling and many of the imbalances that led to the great crash are still there.
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In fact, I think that anyone who wants to check will find that most of the top states in job creation have Republican Governors. (and probably statehouses as well)
What I don't get is why this can't translate to the federal level.
Your numbers are correct. The majority of states with top job creation do have Republican governors, and part of this is due to Republican policies. But the question isn't just be how many jobs are created. The more important question is what is the quality of these jobs? Those jobs aren't being created out of thin air. They are coming at the expense of states with collective bargaining and higher taxes. The problem is that compared to equivalent jobs from the past or from other parts of the country, these jobs are much less lucrative for workers than they would be if collective bargaining were allowed.
This movement of jobs to places with lower labor costs (read as much less leverage for labor) is at the root of decreasing wages over the last several decades. Decreasing wages is at the root of why so many individuals use so much private debt to maintain basic consumption. While average workers in the 50's and 60's were able to provide a house, some luxury, and college education for their children without going into insurmountable debt, average workers now have to borrow heavily to do these things. Debt-fueled consumption can only last so long, and the blowout finally came in 2008 and is still ongoing.
The reason those policies don't translate to the federal level is b/c marginally lowering labor costs by anti-union policies and cutting taxes in states like Texas will drive jobs out of other states to Texas. But we will not be able to lower labor costs, regulations, and taxes enough to get jobs back from China, India and other developing countries where workers are paid pennies on the dollar and there are effectively very few regulations. And I don't think anyone in America is crazy enough to want to go back to rivers filled with toxins, acid rain, 12 hour work days, child labor, or living next to the factory with 5 roommates to a studio apartment sharing beds.
Edit: To expand a bit, this is an enormously difficult problem that is mostly out of our control. We really either have to put pressure on developing nations to play by a common set of fair rules, or there will have to be some kind of internal shakeout in these countries to even the playing field for US labor.
The most surprising thing I learned recently was that there are international labor standards that have been around since WWII that most countries give lip service to. That means that China essentially has the same labor standards we do. The problem is that they basically thumb their nose at the standards b/c the political class is terrified of unemployment (and rightly so, but at our expense). This leads to a total race to the bottom, as companies don't go where they can make better products that are worth more b/c they are better or more innovative, they go where they can exploit labor to make products on the cheap.
Last edited by tjs7; 06/03/12 11:09 AM.
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I gotta tell you something ...... I lived through the Carter years ..... and you can make an argument that the Carter recession was far worse then this current recession.
The difference is that the Carter recession didn't double dip, as this one is in danger of doing. All indicators point towards a possible recession again on the horizon. That's a scary thought, and has at least some of its roots in the horrible fiscal management by our current government, which refuses to set tax policy for more than a year, and hasn't passed a budget in over 3 years. (all stalled in the Senate, controlled by Harry Reid and the Democrats)
Both the Carter and Obama recessions had high and sustained unemployment. (of course Carter didn't hit the heights of Obama's unemployment rates) Carter did have interest rates through the roof, (I remember considering a new car, except that rates were almost 20%) and inflation was running rampant.
I look at the current unemployment rate, and it is a lagging indicator ..... but I look at the rates, by year from 2001 - 2008 ..... even with wars, attacks, recession, and so on, were 4.7, 5.8, 6.0, 5.5, 5.1, 4.6, 4.6, and 5.8.
Then Obama took office, and yes things were bad ..... but he set out to "rescue" GM and Chrysler, spent a bunch of money we didn't have, and promised that the rate wouldn;t go above 7% if we did these things.
His unemployment rates have been 9.3, 9.6, and 8.9% thus far. 2012 seems headed for another 8+% unemployment rate.
What actions has Obama taken to try to reduce the unemployment rate? What policies has he shepherded through Congress, even when he had total and unconditional control of Congress, that helped create employment? What has he done to create an environment for employers to start hiring and spending money?
He's heaped regulations on top of regulations, wants to raise taxes, and has the spectre of Obamacare looming over most employers' heads. In my opinion, he has been about as business unfriendly as he could possibly have been.
We could cut regulations, offer incentives for increasing employment while cutting other tax breaks to balance them out, reduce regulation while promising that we will apply regulatory changes only once or twice per year except in case of emergency, lower taxes across the board, cut spending, dump Obamacare, allow for the repatriation of funds currently held off-shore with a lower tax rate applied as long as a certain percentage of those funds is used as reinvestment capital, or to hire more employees ...... cut the corporate tax rate while adding a small national sales tax to off-set the revenue loss .... which would then apply to all good sold in the US, domestically and foreign made alike, and which would allow for a slightly more even playing field for domestic manufacturers .......
Man, there are so many things we could do that might help .... and that probably would help ...... but instead we do nothing.
I really am not crazy about either Party on the national level ..... but I do have to say that at least the Republicans have proposed and passed legislation. They have passed budgets. They have tried to do their jobs. Unfortunately, all things go to the Senate and die. There is no one to blame for that but the Democrats. Harry Reid is the Majority Leader, and controls the floor absolutely. Nothing makes it up even for a vote unless he allows it. Thus far, since the Republicans took back the House, he's allowed nothing up for a vote.
The Democrats took control of the House and Senate during the mid term elections of Bush's second term.
In 2007, the budget deficit was $161 billion. That was with Republicans controlling the House and Senate, along with the White House. In 2008 the Democrats took over, and the deficit grew to $459 billion.
Obama was elected and sworn in on January 20, 2009. He had everything at his disposal. He had the House, and a Filibuster-Proof Senate majority.
He did have a recession on his hands.
However, the 2009 budget deficit is laid at the feet of Bush, so we'll give him that one as well ...... $1.413 billion ...... with about $700 billion of that being TARP. (much of which has been paid back as a credit in later years, as far as I can tell)
So then we get into the Obama budgets. The Democrats really couldn't wait to get spending ..... even increasing the amount of food stamps people got, and explaining how unemployment was a stimulus. The federal budget deficits under Obama and the Democrats have been right around $1.3 trillion per year. This has been with horrible economic conditions, and with improving economic conditions. There's been no budget ... so we don't really know what money is supposed to go where ..... things are just kind of on automatic. The one thing that the Democrats did do was to make sure that Obamacare would be funded no matter what ...... because they built the funding right into the bill. The law itself has to be repealed or amended in order to cut any of the spending in Obamacare. It's not part of the budget process.
To me, that's insane .... especially in rough economic times.
Anyway .... more back on topic .......one thing that Republicans do at the state level is to not get in the way of things like fracking and drilling. The state of Ohio has seen an explosion in this area, but most of the land lease rights have yet to be exercised. Private lands have been used almost exclusively for fracking and such ....... but the state government hasn't gotten in the way more than they need to. (such as when there were concerns over earthquakes and such .... which were investigated, and IIRC, processes and procedures were changed to eliminate these quakes)
To me that's how government should work. Regulate industries, but work with them when there are problems so that they can be worked out in a manner that serves both the business and public interests.
Let's look at the federal government's stance on energy issues. One of the things that Obama said when he came into office is that he wanted to kill clean coal technology. Instead of looking at whether or not such technology could be improved upon even more, especially vital since we have enormous coal reserves, he just wants to kill it.
That shouldn't be the role of government. Government should set reasonable rules for businesses and industries, protect the public and its interests ..... but not decide what businesses and industries live, and which die. The market will decide that.
I am probably rambling a bit here ..... pain meds just took effect and all ..... but that's my general stand on things. I do not think that Republicans are perfect by any stretch ...... but it certainly seems to me that the Republican plan of lower taxes and less spending works better than throwing trillions of dollars into a black hole ..... and I would be willing to bet .... into certain people's pockets as well.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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"Think Progress.com" ..... wonder what side of the political aisle they come down on ........"
Doesn't matter. Every post that quotes a source will have the slant that the poster wants it to have. That's why it was posted. It's the way of The Net.
Your 2nd post was bolstered by a link to FOX news.... which has been anything but "Fair" and "Balanced." over the years.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, as well.
Mostly, all I get in threads like these is spin.... from both sides. It's all good to me, because I know all My Dawgs... but PLEEEEZE don't denigrate Mac's "ThinkProgress.org" link, while you're you're working the hell out of "FOXNews.com." 
Pots are meeting kettles daily in this forum.... and there there IS no "high road."
Just sayin'....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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