DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns catching Steelers?

Around the NFL: Browns window of ending misery to Steelers could be opening
By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff writer
Posted Jun 02, 2012 @ 11:54 PM

If a team builds through the draft ... If the building superintendent has a clue ...

If Tom Heckert’s three offseasons of rounding up a new roster is to bear fruit ...

It’s just about time for the Browns to catch up to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

It has been time.

On Sept. 17, 2000, rookie No. 1 overall pick Courtney Brown sacked Steelers quarterback Kent Graham on the last play of the game to seal a 23-20 Browns win.

Since then, Cleveland’s record in the Pittsburgh series is 2-22.

Some things are half past pathetic — 2-22 is much worse than that.

The concept of catching up to Pittsburgh began turning into a manifestation within the last half year.

On Dec. 8 at Pittsburgh, the Browns had a first-and-goal late in the fourth quarter, trailing 7-3.

On Jan. 1 in Cleveland, they led Pittsburgh 6-3 at halftime and lost 13-9.

Defeats, yes. But this wasn’t the same as getting their ears boxed on Christmas Eve, 2006, the day no Browns fans were left to see James Harrison spike a drunken fan who staggered across the field.

This wasn’t like Eric Mangini’s last hurrah, a 41-9 home shellacking Jan. 2, 2011.

Yes, there were extenuating circumstances behind the two close losses last season.

Pittsburgh’s Ben Roethlisberger played more than half of one game and all of the other one with a mangled ankle.

But then, Cleveland played all of both games without Trent Richardson, Brandon Weeden and Mitchell Schwartz.

If Heckert is as good as Boss Holmgren says he is, the three high draft picks should make a quick difference.

Plus, the Steelers have some leaks:

• Their last game was a playoff loss at Denver.

• Linebacker James Farrior, a mainstay on the defense for years, has been cut.

• Harrison, 34, Casey Hampton, 34, Brett Keisel, 33, Ike Taylor, 32, Ryan Clark, 32, Larry Foote, 31, and Troy Polamalu, 31, are projected starters on an aging defense.

• Running back Rashard Mendenhall might lose 2012 to a knee injury.

• Roethlisberger’s new blind-side protector, Mike Adams, enters the league amid checkered reviews that made him available late in Round 2.

• Whereas Pittsburgh was one of those established teams that could get by without a 2011 offseason, developing teams such as Cleveland won’t be crippled by a lockout in 2012.

THE DRAFT LINEUP

If a team builds through the draft, and the building superintendent has a clue ...

Picking higher in drafts should make a difference.

The overall draft position of the Browns’ projected starters on offense and the Steelers’ projected starters on defense (by original overall draft position; asterisk denotes a Heckert acquisition):

No. 3: Browns LT Joe Thomas

No. 3: Browns RB Trent Richardson*

No. 16: Steelers SS Troy Polamalu

No. 15: Steelers ILB Lawrence Timmons

No. 19: Steelers NT Casey Hampton

No. 21: Browns C Alex Mack

No. 22: Browns QB Brandon Weeden*

No. 32: Browns TE Ben Watson*

No. 32: Steelers DE Ziggy Hood

No. 37: Browns RT Mitchell Schwartz*

No. 46: Steelers OLB LaMarr Woodley

No. 50: Browns WR Mohamed Massaquoi

No. 59: Browns WR Greg Little*

No. 92: Browns RG Shawn Lauvao*

No. 96: Steelers CB Keenan Lewis

No. 124: Browns FB Owen Marecic*

No. 125: Steelers CB Ike Taylor

No. 128: Steelers ILB Larry Foote

No. 150: Browns LG Jason Pinkston*

No. 242: Steelers DE Brett Keisel

Undrafted: Steelers OLB James Harrison

Undrafted: Steelers FS Ryan Clark

Push the button on the calculator: Of the 14 highest picks, nine are Browns; five are Steelers.

FLIPPING THE ORDER

Let’s do the same exercise the other way around.

The original draft position of the projected Browns’ starting defense and Pittsburgh’s No. 1 offense (asterisk denotes a player acquired by Heckert):

No. 7: Browns CB Joe Haden*

No. 11: Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger

No. 18: Steelers C Maurkice Pouncey

No. 24: Steelers RG David DeCastro

No. 30: Steelers TE Heath Miller

No. 34: Browns LB D’Qwell Jackson

No. 37: Browns DE Jabaal Sheard*

No. 38: Browns SS T.J. Ward*

No. 56: Steelers LT Mike Adams

No. 59: Browns CB Sheldon Brown*

No. 63: Steelers RT Marcus Gilbert

No. 66: Browns FS Usama Young*

No. 71: Browns OLB Chris Gocong*

No. 84: Steelers WR Mike Wallace

No. 87: Browns DT John Hughes*

No. 91: Browns DE Frostee Rucker*

No. 120: Browns OLB James-Michael Johnson*

No. 131: Steelers LG Willie Colon

No. 190: Browns DT Ahtyba Rubin

No. 195: Steelers WR Antonio Brown

No. 241: Steelers FB David Johnson

Undrafted: Steelers RB Isaac Redman

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

In the case of the defense, the Steelers own four of the five highest picks, most notably Roethlisberger.

Yet, Pittsburgh also has four of the five lowest picks, including the non-pick, Redman, who is a candidate to carry the ball while Rashard Mendenhall’s knee heals.

Obviously, the Browns won’t get very far rolling up their depth chart into a spit wad and throwing it toward Heinz Field.

On the other hand, more and more, Tom Heckert’s picks are showing up at the top of the roster. And there is a certain level of enthusiasm building as to what they might do as they grow up together.

Losing 2011 No. 21 overall pick Phil Taylor hurts the Browns more than losing 2008 No. 23 overall pick Rashard Mendenhall hurts Pittsburgh.

The scouting types question whether Mendenhall even has a future with the Steelers.

Taylor is squarely in the middle of the Browns blueprint for 2013 and ’14.

Fewer Heckert draft picks than one might think — 11 — are projected 2012 starters.

Even an aggressive general manager who moves like a tidal wave can rock the boat only so much in three years.

On the other hand, counting trades and free agency pick-ups, 17 of the 22 projected starters are Heckert acquisitions.

That’s some serious rocking.
web page

We'll see. We have to get it done of the field, with some consistency, before I'm willing to say that we're on par with the Steelers. (or above them)

I would love nothing more than to shove them into a battle for the basement with the Ravens, while the Bengals do their annual 7-8 win show.

As far as only having 11 Heckert draft picks as starters ...... we had a few really good players before he got here ...... DQ, Rubin, Thomas, and Mack ... already firmly entrenched. We also have Massaquoi, who the jury is still out on, but who could benefit from a QB change.

The others are either free agent signings, or players we traded for.

Thanks for the link Mourgrym.

As the saying goes " the proof is on the field".

It's a pretty monumental task to de thrown the Steelers (and Ravens), but that's the task set before the Browns FO when they took the job. Winning more games will mean very little if we can't win games in our division.

Let's hope that we have gained some ground with the past 3 Drafts.

Quote:

---

It's a pretty monumental task to de thrown the Steelers (and Ravens),

---

I'm not being a smart alec here ... but I really don't understand this statement. Was this a typo?

Dethrone lol

Oh God .... I can't believe that I didn't put that together.

I'm gonna blame the pain meds again.

It seems like we've been saying the Steelers window has been closing each year for the past five seasons but they always seem to reload.

Prove it on the field. The analysis is from a writer that has too much time on his hands and nothing to say. And I generally like him.

Where a player is drafted means nothing, if so Detroit would have been a Super Bowl contender a long time ago, instead they floundered. Picking a successful player is more important.

I think Holmgren said it best, when he took over the team, the Browns had 2 first round draft choices on the roster... Thomas and Mack, that is pretty bad.

I thought we should have swept the Steelers last year and that was with Colt at QB and no offseason and 2 new systems installed. I believe their time at the top is at an end and they will be the 4th team in the division for the next few years.

I also havent been very impressed with the Ravens drafts the last few years either and their demise is coming as well.

The Bengals have really been drafting well. They are however still without a QB imho. Top to bottom they have the strongest TEAM but I dont think Dalton is their answer.

We have taken a big step forward and Pitt and Baltimore have taken a step back. Last year we were able to compete in all of our divisional games but 1 with Colt at QB. QB is the key.

How about we win a game against the Steelers before making claims like that?

Mourg, you are way too optimistic. You yourself said QB is key and both the Steelers and Ravens have one. I'd like to see Dalton with another year as well before I make a judgment on him.

But we are still so far away from Steelers and Ravens it's not even funny.

If Weeden ends up being legit I agree that will certainly start turning things around especially because we are better and younger in a lot of other areas.

But man, we need to see it on the field.

So we aren't allowed to talk about what we see happening in our division? Kinda takes the fun out of talking football on a message board.

Big Ben makes the Steelers go and he just had his OC and close friend fired and replaced with Napoleon Jr. and his RB is probably out for most if not the entire season. The defense is old and slow.

I don't believe the Ravens have much in Flacco. He is weak minded. Now you have Ed Reed talking retirement. Suggs out for the year. Ray Lewis is not anywhere close to the player he was and he has one foot into retirement as well.

Really the Steelers are the only team with a legit QB at the helm. The Bengals are a real QB away from having the team to beat for the next few years. Even with DAlton, they will be a handful.

z- Baltimore Ravens 6-0
y- Pittsburgh Steelers 4-2
y- Cincinnati Bengals 2-4
Cleveland Browns 0-6

Division records last year

I'll buy it when I start seeing wins. Period.

They could have an all-pro offensive line in all 5 spots.. it won't matter as long as Big Ben is back there.. He generally puts himself in trouble when it comes to sacks by moving out of the pocket.

Sheard vs. Mike Adams?

Interesting.

Won't Sheard be on the other side?

I thought he was the LDE?

And Adams was going to play RT..?

No?

Do we really want plug-in players that just are great draft picks or do we develop players? The Steelers develop more players and therefore don't depend on a great draft. Who have we developed into a good or great player?

Cribbs....maybe Bernard or Shaffering. Can we say the Stelers have a great draft every year? But they do find LBs with regularity that can win and play great defense. Harrison is a perfect example. So now how do we develop players?

Are our fans so impatient that they push to get the coach fired? Maybe but not like NY. I think we have relatively patient fans that give every draft a chance. They did give Schumer a chance. We really must have a real coach that knows how to win.

Do our coaches know how to build a defense and get a chance to implement their strategy? This is not happening at least during the 8 years after 1999. Recent coaches have been better but will they stay? We must have a direction that players recognize and want.

Player development is critical and as important as drafting and FA picks. How many or our starters were great picks and how many became better after they were picked?



No. 3: Browns LT Joe Thomas Great pick..still good

No. 3: Browns RB Trent Richardson* ???

No. 16: Steelers SS Troy Polamalu Great pick still good

No. 15: Steelers ILB Lawrence Timmons Top pick good player

No. 19: Steelers NT Casey Hampton Great pick still good

No. 21: Browns C Alex Mack Great pick still getting better

No. 22: Browns QB Brandon Weeden* ????

No. 32: Browns TE Ben Watson* We missed on his draft but good FA plays great

No. 32: Steelers DE Ziggy Hood Top pick plays good

No. 37: Browns RT Mitchell Schwartz* ????

No. 46: Steelers OLB LaMarr Woodley Average pick plays good

No. 50: Browns WR Mohamed Massaquoi Top pick plays average

No. 59: Browns WR Greg Little* Top pick plays average

No. 92: Browns RG Shawn Lauvao* average pick plays average

No. 96: Steelers CB Keenan Lewis Good pick plays good

No. 124: Browns FB Owen Marecic* Average pick plays average

No. 125: Steelers CB Ike Taylor Average pick plays good
No. 128: Steelers ILB Larry Foote Average pick plays good

No. 150: Browns LG Jason Pinkston* Average pick plays average

No. 242: Steelers DE Brett Keisel Below Average pick plays good

Undrafted: Steelers OLB James Harrison non-drafted plays great

Undrafted: Steelers FS Ryan Clark non-drafted plays good

Push the button on the calculator: Of the 14 highest picks, nine are Browns; five are Steelers.

I thought they were drafting him for LT as well. Certainly lacks the power and bend you want out of a RT.

Well then I hope they do put him at RT.

In a nut shell this team will be as good as Weedon and Shurmur.

Weedon I have high hopes for, Shurmur you can keep he SUCKS, the man doesn’t even know when to take a time out, or when to decline or except a penalty.

Back to Weedon. Is there someone on the current staff that can develop a QB?

Is there someone on the coaching staff that has the good sense to protect Weedon against getting his brain beat in. Maybe a max protect now and then or run the ball more even when we should throw it, just to protect the kid.

To sum up what we lack and have lacked for oh so long is a franchise QB. It’s so obvious to me at least. The talent gap isn’t all that great between us and our division rivals, it’s the QB play that sets them apart from us. Now that’s a simplistic outlook on this team I know that, but in 2007 DA played like a franchise QB and we were at least an OK team. What that shows you is, is the impact good QB play has on a team.

In the end until Shurmur is either fired or relegated to a figure head as apposed to a HC/OC this team and it’s QB will struggle mightily. He sucks bad enough I worry about the guys that play for him, and whether or not he will ruin them before they have a chance to develop..

JMHO of course

I am not a big fan of Shurmer myself, but I'll say last year was his rookie season, so I expect to see improvements this season. This season will give us a pretty good idea on him.


As for catching up, I agree. I think we are and as you said, much is going to depend on Weeden and how he progresses through the season.

I would think we will use Richardson as more than a decoy back there, so I would expect to see us run the ball plenty. If we only run him 15 or so times a game, we wasted a 1st round pick. He needs the ball 25 times a game, not counting any passes tossed his way, but in the end, whatever formula we use that wins games is fine by me.

Gilbert was never benched for his play on the field...he was benched one game for missing a team meeting.

Adams will get every chance to win LT spot....they did not want to move Gilbert from RT to LT...just to move back in a year as Adams gets up to speed

I still think Max Starks gets resigned...and either he or Adams is the swing tackle

Adams, Colon, Pouncey, DeCastro, Gilbert......even with rookie mistakes is light years better than last years john scott, doug legursky, pouncey, ramone foster, gilbert

Hack

Adams is average for an NFL tackle...I was never impressed with his speed or ability to stop speed. He is big but I was never impressed with his blocking on runs either. A good backup but not really a top pick. If he develops into a starter then that is another coaching success for the Steelers.