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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8006771/nfl-hire-replacement-officials-talks-stallNFL to hire replacement officials The NFL said Monday that it will immediately begin to hire and train replacement officials as contract talks with the NFL Referees Association "remain unresolved and the previous CBA has expired." SportsNation: Replacement referees? The NFL is going ahead with a plan to hire and train replacement officials for this season. Will the league's quality take a hit? • Cast your vote! The league said it has made the decision to hire replacements "in order to ensure that there is no disruption to NFL games this season." "Our goal is to maintain the highest quality of officiating for our teams, players, and fans, including proper enforcement of the playing rules and efficient management of our games," the league said in its statement. The league will look to hire officials from anywhere but the BCS conferences because those officials are run by NFL officials, and the NFL doesn't want to put the BCS officials in an awkward situation. Elite NCAA officials who have retired and officials from small college conferences and arena football will be considered, a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. The training sessions for replacement officials will take place next month, the league said. “ It is unfortunate that as referees' responsibilities are expanded that the NFL would jeopardize player health and safety and the integrity of the game by seeking amateur, underqualified referees to administer professional games. ” -- Mike Arnold, counsel for NFLRA Referees counsel Mike Arnold called those replacements "amateur referees." "It is unfortunate that as referees' responsibilities are expanded that the NFL would jeopardize player health and safety and the integrity of the game by seeking amateur, underqualified referees to administer professional games," Arnold said. The NFL said the last negotiating session with its officials took place Sunday with the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. "We have great respect for our officials and in keeping with that view have made a proposal that includes substantial increases in compensation for all game officials," the NFL said in its statement. Football Today Matt Williamson discusses news involving the NFL officials, Osi Umenyiora and emails regarding the Buccaneers, Browns and tight ends. More Podcasts » In 2001, the league used replacement officials for one preseason game, then the first weekend of the regular season. But after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, a new deal soon was reached that carried through 2005. Another contract was agreed on in 2006. The NFL Referees Association has 121 on-field members and also represents the 17 replay officials and more than 100 retired officials. Information from ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter and The Associated Press was used in this report.
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After watching virtually every single game last year, I gotta say, they need to replace 90% of those officials anyway. Worst officiated games I have seen since 2001.
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The average referee gets paid $70,000 per year. And they essentially only work 16 weeks a year. I'd be happy with that. Where do I sign up for that?
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Quote:
The average referee gets paid $70,000 per year. And they essentially only work 16 weeks a year. I'd be happy with that. Where do I sign up for that?
it's 24 weeks though, isn't it? (4 weeks training/testing, 4 weeks preseason, 16 week regular season --- postseason gets paid differently, so it doesn't count)
constant travel, harrassment, injuries (they don't get padding) and every other major party on the field and off the field is making signficantly more money than you are making.
I see why they are holding out for more.
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Quote:
it's 24 weeks though, isn't it? (4 weeks training/testing, 4 weeks preseason, 16 week regular season --- postseason gets paid differently, so it doesn't count)
constant travel, harrassment, injuries (they don't get padding) and every other major party on the field and off the field is making signficantly more money than you are making.
I see why they are holding out for more.
I don't see why they'd hold out. Most of them work aside from reffing. They fly in Saturday most of the time, work Sunday, fly home Sunday night.
Now, I don't know if they get travel expenses on top of their salary - my guess is they do.
But, here's the kicker - they don't have to do it - ref in the nfl.
While I don't know for sure, I'm sure they get airfare re-imbursed, hotel, and a per diem. Say it's 20 Saturday and Sundays a year..........$70,000. Not too shabby.
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Quote:
Quote:
it's 24 weeks though, isn't it? (4 weeks training/testing, 4 weeks preseason, 16 week regular season --- postseason gets paid differently, so it doesn't count)
constant travel, harrassment, injuries (they don't get padding) and every other major party on the field and off the field is making signficantly more money than you are making.
I see why they are holding out for more.
I don't see why they'd hold out. Most of them work aside from reffing. They fly in Saturday most of the time, work Sunday, fly home Sunday night.
Now, I don't know if they get travel expenses on top of their salary - my guess is they do.
But, here's the kicker - they don't have to do it - ref in the nfl.
While I don't know for sure, I'm sure they get airfare re-imbursed, hotel, and a per diem. Say it's 20 Saturday and Sundays a year..........$70,000. Not too shabby.
I guess the question is how specialized is the skill of referring an NFL game. If it's highly specialized, these guys should hold out as long as it takes to get as much as they can. I certainly would.
If any bum off the street can do it, then these guys should consider it a privilege and the fact they are making a decent dollar doing it as icing on the cake.
Is it a real job that requires an unique skill set or not?
I don't really know the answer to that question.
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Quote:
Is it a real job that requires an unique skill set or not?
I don't really know the answer to that question.
just knowing every nuance of the rulebook is a task in itself. and likely takes years to master enough to have the mettle to properly call during games knowing every mistake will be critiqued.
after that, knowing where to be at the snap and where to go depending on what is happening on that play would take time to learn. add into it knowing exactly what to look for and what calls you are responsible for at each specific position requires more knowledge/training.
then, what happens when one of the referees gets injured and they are required to shift in order to cover for their calls too (as happens during a game).
finally, having the mental fortitude to concentrate directly on their specific areas, while men 3X your size are flying around you who are padded and not caring about you (or using you as a pick on crossing patterns) I would not imagine being the easiest thing in the world.
all IMHO of course 
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After everything going on with Hochuli, and some blatantly horrible riffing I've seen in the past couple years, I don't really think this is a bad thing.
I'm sure it's also a ploy for the other side to cave.
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Quote:
it's 24 weeks though, isn't it? (4 weeks training/testing, 4 weeks preseason, 16 week regular season --- postseason gets paid differently, so it doesn't count)
17 week regular season, 4 week preseason (with an extra week for whoever is calling the HoF game), and many of them work training camps for teams as well.
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I believe that the officials who work training camps get paid extra to do so. I seem to recall that we hired an officiating crew when Mangini was here. (Maybe it was Romeo .... or both)
Do all crews work every weekend, or do they get a "bye" week as well?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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it's 24 weeks though, isn't it? (4 weeks training/testing, 4 weeks preseason, 16 week regular season --- postseason gets paid differently, so it doesn't count)
constant travel, harrassment, injuries (they don't get padding) and every other major party on the field and off the field is making signficantly more money than you are making.
I see why they are holding out for more.
I don't see why they'd hold out. Most of them work aside from reffing. They fly in Saturday most of the time, work Sunday, fly home Sunday night.
Now, I don't know if they get travel expenses on top of their salary - my guess is they do.
But, here's the kicker - they don't have to do it - ref in the nfl.
While I don't know for sure, I'm sure they get airfare re-imbursed, hotel, and a per diem. Say it's 20 Saturday and Sundays a year..........$70,000. Not too shabby.
In a minor way I know Butch Hannah, a umpire in the NFL. He is from Chattanooga, a federal probation officer. I've known him from some speaking engagements and have actually been in the airport with him three times while waiting for flights up to games. A great guy.
I know he sat in 1st class for the long leg of his flight, and know the rooms, in a nice downtown hotel are covered. Being a downtown hotel in whatever city, I'd bet his per diem per trip is close to $150. Not unreasonable. A lunch and dinner on Saturday, breakfast on Sunday and a airport snack on the return trip.
I'll break it down: Lunch can cost you about $30 with tip. Dinner around $60 with tip. We are talking downtown prices. Breakfast can run $25 with tip for the buffet. We all know airport prices for a chicken sandwich and beverage.
$150 easy....they may get more depending on the assignment. I know. Many will say they can do it on less.....no doubt you can, but these guys are at the top of their profession. Sorry, they shouldn't be expected to eat Subways every place they go. A nice breakfast and lunch, and a nice steak with a glass of wine at dinner....nothing unreasonable here.
But seriously man....this thought they don't have to do it...no, they don't, but is is rather simplistic....and you are a buddy.
I guess all I am saying is at some point we can't always think on the cheap and expect quality if we expect top results, and on the other end of things, as you get better, you should expect better. I'd expect the top sales rep to get better perks then the new guy fresh out of college. The person who produces the sales can go out on Friday afternoon to play golf. The new person better be humping it the whole way.
That said, here is a good article on Butch, be it 4-5 years ago.
web page
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First, what are they asking for? Second, retired refs? Retired from a part-time job? Quote:
The NFL Referees Association has 121 on-field members and also represents the 17 replay officials and more than 100 retired officials.
Are they going to claim concussions too?
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If this is what it takes to get Ed Hochuli off the field, I'm all for it.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Quote:
If this is what it takes to get Ed Hochuli off the field, I'm all for it.
Am I missing something here? Before the Hochuli mistake heard around the world I thought he was considered one of the better refs. Since the mistake there seems to be a lot of venom for the guy.
Is it warranted or just piling on?
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There are definitely worse guys than Hochuli. Jeff Triplette comes to mind.
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I guess I didn't make my point eloquently enough. Or, maybe I didn't have a point to begin with.
However - these guys work about 20 days a year. Add in another, at least, 20 travel days - and of course add in training and video work
But apparently they DO get a per diem at a minimum. Airfare as well, and hotel expense. My guess is they also get some sort of retirement package from the nfl - probably not the greatest, but something.
Like I said as well, most nfl ref's have jobs other than football reffing. Reffing is an added bonus to them.
I'm not taking away from them or the job they do - but seriously - for most of them it's not their "job", it's a side job. And I don't mean to belittle them by saying that.
$70,000 a year, plus airfare, plus hotel, plus a per diem...........well, I don't know of anyone off the top of my head that would turn that down.
I'm not saying they are over paid.........but I'm not thinking they are underpaid.
What I AM saying is if they think they are underpaid, they are free to not do it.
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Quote:
Quote:
If this is what it takes to get Ed Hochuli off the field, I'm all for it.
Am I missing something here? Before the Hochuli mistake heard around the world I thought he was considered one of the better refs. Since the mistake there seems to be a lot of venom for the guy.
Is it warranted or just piling on?
Wasn't he one of the refs that handed the Steelers the superbowl vs. the Seahawks?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Quote:
Quote:
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If this is what it takes to get Ed Hochuli off the field, I'm all for it.
Am I missing something here? Before the Hochuli mistake heard around the world I thought he was considered one of the better refs. Since the mistake there seems to be a lot of venom for the guy.
Is it warranted or just piling on?
Wasn't he one of the refs that handed the Steelers the superbowl vs. the Seahawks?
I think that was Bill(?) Levy.
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General reply:
I don't have any links or anything to back this up, but I was under the impression that NBA and MLB refs/umps get paid WAAAY better than NFL officials. In my opinion, those two sports have the worst officiating, by far. This NBA finals reinforces my opinion. The officiating in those two sports is borderline crooked.
Watching an NBA game helps me appreciate the officiating in NFL and NHL games. If they want to get paid more, I can see where they're coming from because, in my opinion, they provide a much better product than what their basketball and baseball counterparts do.
Again, I base my opinion on what I've heard, so if anyone has a linky or reference to compare salaries of officials from different sports, I'd love to see it.
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Nevermind, here you go. http://www.therichest.org/sports/highest-paid-nba-referees/NBA referees make about double NFL refs. But they are also much busier (more games in an NBA season vs NFL).
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Plus, NFL Refs can (and many do) hold a full time in addition to being an NFL Ref.
They work 5 pre-season, 17 regular season weeks, (including bye weeks) and 4 playoff games, max.
That's a maximum, if they work every possible weekend, of 26 weeks, or half a year of weekends. If they work all of those dates, they get paid extra.
For half a year's worth of weekends, (one day per weekend, maybe 8 hours per shift, allowing for meetings before the game, after the game, and 3- 3 1/2 hours for the game itself) they make $70,000.
Let's assume that they also maybe have to work an extra 40 hours of continuing training per season.
I'd take that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They are being locked out, but I understand your comment.
I am not sure what the issue between the two sides is all about.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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it amazes me how little people think NFL refs work. if all they did was fly into and out of games and not work during those weeks (film study, rule interpretations based on previous weeks results, etc), then the NFL would be a much worse league.
also, I see some on here are saying they aren't underpaid and seem to be comparing against the normal salaries people would command. you have to take them out of that prism and into the NFL world of salaries (they make less than 1/4 of lowest paid players)
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I think they also have a review of each game to see where they could improve and where mistakes were made..
It's not just a show up on Sunday,, work for 4 hours, and leave kinda job.. Much more to it than that.
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You also have to take in to account they are at the top of their profession and there aren't that many positions available.
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That's why I said 8 hours per game worked, including the game itself.
I'm sure that they aren't working full time on this, because many hold down full time jobs while also being NFL Refs.
I bet that they actually work far less than many people think they do.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ya know, instead of guessing, I decided to contact a person in the NFL office that I communicate with from time to time when I have a question or need info.
I asked him for a typical work week for a ref and what training they go through each off season and preseason.
Just sent the email a moment ago and got a response that he's out of the office.. if he provides anything, I'll share it with you all.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Cool. It's good to have someone "on the inside", so to speak.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My grandpa was an NFL official, but retired in 1977. I love watching games with him, as he still catches a lot of stuff I don't see, even though he's 90 years old.
Just last week, my brother and I were just trying on the ring he got for officiating in Super Bowl II.
I'll have to ask him about his thoughts on all of this.
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NFL Referees Association accuses league of “falsehoods” Posted by Mike Florio on June 5, 2012 Not long ago, the NFL and the NFL Referees Association were involved in cooperative, collegial, and, consequently, boring negotiations. Since Sunday, the situation has deteriorated. The league locked out the officials, and the NFL has commenced rounding up replacements for the 2012 season. The fans don’t seem to care, given the perception that the current officials aren’t any good. (Guess what? The replacements definitely won’t be any better.) The parties then launched a public back-and-forth, with the NFLRA claiming the league never intended to work toward a fair deal and the NFL contending the officials planned to drag the process out until the season approached and launch a strike. The NFLRA has now responded to the league’s response. For starters, the officials contend that the league omitted reference to its plan to freeze and later terminate their pension plan. The officials then accuse the league of deliberately lying. “The NFL stated that it did not take action to contact replacement officials until ‘after the union advised us in March of its intention to take a strike vote and told us of its plan to drag out the negotiations until late summer,’” says the NFLRA in a statement from lead negotiator Mike Arnold. “This is patently false. The NFLRA has never threatened to strike. After repeated references by the NFL during negotiations regarding its plans to obtain replacement officials the NFLRA briefed its members at its Annual Meeting on April 21, 2012. No strike vote was taken at the meeting. In fact the NFLRA’s directive to its membership was to prepare for the season and to perform each and every task assigned to them both before and after CBA expiration. This continues to be the position of the NFLRA. The NFLRA negotiating team expressly advised the NFL’s negotiating team of these directives at negotiating sessions held May 16, 2012 and May 21, 2012. The NFL’s claim to the contrary appears to be an attempt to divert attention from its predetermined lockout strategy.” The public back-and-forth likely may or may not continue. At some point, however, the two sides need to work out their differences. It’s too early to tell who is or isn’t being reasonable. Here’s hoping both sides will be committed to finding a fair resolution that works for everyone. Though the game officials definitely could improve their performance at times, using replacements could only make things worse. And the stewards of the game need to ensure that doesn’t happen. web page
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So, some of this is about the pension plan?
I'll never understand that - in general. I have no idea what the ref's pension plan is - and I don't care. ANY pension plan for ref's OR players is stupid.
One need look no further than GM. If you DO want to look further, look at most states pensions. Wanna go further, look at the country of Greece
The whole idea of "I work for 25 or 30 years (not nfl ref's okay) and then the company should pay me AND my health care, etc....."
What ever happened to taking care of yourself?
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This whole thing, I just think the NFL should just step up to the plate.
Replacements are going to be bad not good. ( I'd take a ref job for sure, sign me up for the Steeler game , I'll be totaly unbiased, even more than y'all would wish, and I'd have a quick ejection finger for Mr Harrison. )
I don't want to compare them to the low paid NFL player, I think they should be compared to the barely visible telivision personality. The head ref, has a different responsibility than a member of the chain gang, so it's not all equal. The Head ref, who makes the calls on t.v. should be getting some consideration for his fame, but moreso for the pressure he has to get it right.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
Replacements are going to be bad not good
I don't buy that. I am pretty sure the NFL didn't place want ads in the newspaper.
You start talking to college coaches and conference officials and you start pulling from there....where they always have.
In the case of Butch, who I mentioned earlier, he started as a HS ref for 5-6 years, then went on to maybe Ohio Valley for 3-4 years, then he stopped in the SEC for 6-7 years before the NFL offered him a job.
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I don't see well enough to ref in any league, but I've held sticks in all of my kids games, and I understand those guys make $8,000 per game. I could do that easily.
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Per game? That's hard to believe considering people say the NFL doesn't have "full-time" officials.
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While I think your amount per game is in the ballpark it just goes to show you that NFS refs (for the most part) are not in it for the money. As bad as I've seen games called..........they are very skilled, knowledgable people. Just pulling from college wouldn't work imo.
As with most jobs it takes time on the actual worksite, doing the actual job to become first proficient in it, and then eventually, hopefully skilled at it. NFS ref'ing would seem to follow that imo. With billions of dollars at stake in how much the NFL makes.........I would think they wouldn't risk replacement refs.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum SCABS! -- otherwise known as 'NFL
Referee Labor Dispute Resolution'
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