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I think that this could actually hurt the Democrats in a lot of ways. They spent a lot of time, energy, and money in Wisconsin trying to recall Walker. However, they riled up the Republican base, and energized the Republican machine. With Walker appearing to win his recall by a larger margin than he originally won his election, it seems like maybe the Democrats should have let sleeping dogs lie. They may regret this, especially if the Republican machine that's been assembled helps defeat Obama later this year. Walker survives recall, Fox News projects | Fox News http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/05/polls-close-in-wisconsin-voter-turnout-reported-heavy/Wisconsin residents on Tuesday voted in favor of keeping GOP Gov. Scott Walker in a recall election organized after he eliminated collective bargain agreements for most state employees to cut a multi-billion dollar budget shortfall, Fox News projects. Fox News called the race shortly before 10 p.m. Eastern Time. Walker in surviving the recall election, beat back a challenge by Democratic Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett. Walker’s victory caps months of acrimony that began when Walker and Republicans in the state legislature rolled back what they considered excesses in the collective bargaining rights of public employee unions. The recall effort started about 18 months after the first-term governor eliminated collectively bargain agreements for most state employees, in an effort to cut Wisconsin's multi-billion dollar budget shortfall. Democrats and unions argued that Walker had gone too far, then helped organize massive statehouse protests and gather 900,000 signatures for the recall vote. The effort began shortly after the state legislature agreed last year to Walker’s proposal, which also requires most public state workers to pay more for health insurance and pension benefits. Roughly $63 million was spent on the race, with much of Walker’s money coming from outside of the state. Walker’s victory in a state that went for President Obama in 2008 gives Republicans hope that Wisconsin may vote for Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney in November. The outcome is also a blow to Big Labor, which poured considerable resources into the failed effort to remove Walker from office. Of the three recall elections of governors in U.S. history, Walker is the only one to survive one. Fox cam also project that Walker’s lieutenant governor, Republican Rebecca Kleefisch, has survived her recall election.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The exit polls were showing that Obama was still up by 14 points in the state.
Ugh, I don't know how anyone could vote for him. He's just as morally bankrupt on workers rights as Kasich is. Unions, while not entirely perfect, need to remain.
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Since I believe that a recall should only be used in the event of criminal activity by an elected official, I think that this was a huge waste of money by the Democrats, and the unions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah, it was a big gamble and powerplay on their end. I sort of agree with you but Walker's general arrogance and unwillingness to work across the aisle is horrible. I can't stand Chris Christie type of politicians. Not because of their political stance but because of the overall demeanor.
Did he deserve a recall? I'm not sure but the option was on the table.
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You must hate the Democrats and Obama then ...... because he stuffed things through the Congress when they had their filibuster-proof majority.
Personally, I think that the Democrat legislators should have been recalled for deserting their posts when the initial legislation was introduced in Wisconsin. They actually broke state law.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The silent majority has spoken. The dems and the unions put a lot of resources into this campaign and came up short. Contrary to what the media was reporting, the Republicans pretty much kept their distance from this. I thought it was pretty funny listening to Ed Schultz tearfully broadcasting the outcome on MSNBC. He's been especially ruthless toward Walker.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Oh man, I wish I got MSNBC just so I could hear the wailing. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Here you go. It's pretty funny that he's blaming it on the "Republican money machine" with all of the union and PAC funding the dems threw into this. Realclearpolitics
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
The silent majority has spoken. The dems and the unions put a lot of resources into this campaign and came up short. Contrary to what the media was reporting, the Republicans pretty much kept their distance from this.
This was no triumph of the silent majority. It was nothing more than a bunch of super rich entities from out of state threw a bunch of money at Walker, and he won b/c he outspent 8 to 1. That is the oldest rule in American politics, the candidate with the most money almost always wins.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/politics/wisconsin-recall-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
What this should do is bother a whole lot of people. The amount of money surging into politics from a relative few people is rapidly accelerating the distortion of the system away from the voices of average everyday people and towards those few. In this particular case, people from outside Wisconsin bought a Wisconsin state election. How would you feel if that were Ohio?
Last edited by tjs7; 06/06/12 01:01 AM.
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But it's ok because it defeats 'dem evil communist labor unions! How dare they try and fight for workers rights! Down with the marxists!
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Wow. Is he delusional, or what? 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I should add that there were also 4 State Senate Seats in recall as well, and 3 of the incumbent Republicans won handily, and the 4th is leading 55% - 45%, with 47% of the precincts reporting so far.
Also, Walker is the 1st Governor in US history to defeat a recall. That's pretty amazing in and of itself.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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The silent majority has spoken. The dems and the unions put a lot of resources into this campaign and came up short. Contrary to what the media was reporting, the Republicans pretty much kept their distance from this.
This was no triumph of the silent majority. It was nothing more than a bunch of super rich entities from out of state threw a bunch of money at Walker, and he won b/c he outspent 8 to 1. That is the oldest rule in American politics, the candidate with the most money almost always wins.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/politics/wisconsin-recall-vote/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
What this should do is bother a whole lot of people. The amount of money surging into politics from a relative few people is rapidly accelerating the distortion of the system away from the voices of average everyday people and towards those few. In this particular case, people from outside Wisconsin bought a Wisconsin state election. How would you feel if that were Ohio?
....and that 8:1 didn't account for any of the union, PAC and media assistance given to his opponent. Any way you slice it, it was the people of Wisconsin that voted. Given the media coverage, you'd have thought that Walker was the devil and would lose in a landslide. There certainly is the appearance of a silent majority prevailing.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Wow.
Is he delusional, or what?
I'll say. He doesn't have a shred of dignity..... or respect for the people who voted
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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The Governor, Lt. Governor, and 3 of the 4 Republican State Senators up for recall have already defeated their recalls, and the 4th Republican leads his race by 53%-47% with 75% of precincts reporting.
I have no idea why they are so far behind counting votes.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They're probably trying to scrounge up some dead people, illegal aliens and cartoon characters to count. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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To some, voter suppression is standing on a grave ........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
They're probably trying to scrounge up some dead people, illegal aliens and cartoon characters to count.
Evidently they did dig up enough dead people, because the Republican was leading by 3000 votes with 77% of precincts reporting ....... but lost 51% - 49% with 100% of the precincts reporting.
There'sa a difference of 779 votes .... and I have no idea what Wisconsin's recount laws are.
It's kinda strange that Racine County went 53% - 47% for Walker ..... defeating that recall ..... yet went 49-51% for the Democrat to recall their State Senator.
That seems somewhat odd to me.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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IIRC, according to that CNN site the voters were closely split between Dems, Reps and independents. I can't get the site to load now for the exact numbers. As fed up as conservatives are with the Republican party, I wouldn't be surprised at dems gaining some votes from the disgruntled. The race you're talking about does look fishy, though.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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In the final 23% of the votes in that district ...... the guy who was losing 53-49% in 77% of the precincts won the final 23% of the precincts, or 18,000 or so votes by 60+%,
It just seems like a rather large swing ..... especially given that the rest of the areas around Racine went for Walker ... as did Racine County itself.
I bet we see a recount in that county. It just looks suspicious.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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....and that 8:1 didn't account for any of the union, PAC and media assistance given to his opponent. Any way you slice it, it was the people of Wisconsin that voted. Given the media coverage, you'd have thought that Walker was the devil and would lose in a landslide. There certainly is the appearance of a silent majority prevailing.
A good point that I didn't consider, but that PAC and union money still didn't make the overall money close. I'm no more comfortable with any out of state PACs and union money going to the Democrat, unless those unions have membership in Wisconsin. If elections really were just about a triumph of the will of the people, why does more money lead to victory such a high percentage of the time?
Is that really the ideal of an election? Walker received huge sums from people with no stake in Wisconsin. A much larger percentage of his money came from outside the state. I'm willing to bet that many of the outside unions have membership in Wisconsin, and therefore have some stake in the state, although I could be wrong. The PAC money sucks no matter which side uses it. None of that bothers either of you guys that a few very rich people can essentially buy an election? What if that were Ohio? Would you be excited if Sheldon Adelson essentially bought our governor?
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As a Democrat, I don't think this really has any bearing on the election in November. I think it's extremely hard to recall a governor unless it's Grey Davis and Arnold Schwarzenegger is running against him.
I think it would be more telling if this was a state like Ohio, Florida or Virginia, true "battleground" states.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I've seen it reported that it has only been attempted three times, either in history or just this century, and Walker is the only one NOT recalled. On what do you base your opinion that it is extremely difficult to re-call a Governor, since it has succeeded two out of three times?
He won by a larger margin than the original election. Unions of public employees have had their political power reduced. Contracts that are financial suicide for cities may become less common.
I believe Wisconsin was also the state that booted over 10,000 people off of Welfare just a few years ago. This was also called a great disaster by the media. Very few news stories that no one starved to death, and something like 87% reported that they were better off. That means that these 10,000 were sucking at the public teat for no reason whatsoever, other than they could, with Democrats in charge.
There a few that are starting to get it.
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Well I didn't know that. Thanks.  Doesn't change my reaction to it at all, though.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
In the final 23% of the votes in that district ...... the guy who was losing 53-49% in 77% of the precincts won the final 23% of the precincts, or 18,000 or so votes by 60+%,
It just seems like a rather large swing ..... especially given that the rest of the areas around Racine went for Walker ... as did Racine County itself.
I bet we see a recount in that county. It just looks suspicious.
What is the percentages of Republicans, Democrats and independents? Ohio has a large swing at the end of each election because Cuyahoga County is always one of the last to report. If you take Cleveland out of the equation I would bet there wouldn't be that big of difference between the parties.
#gmstrong
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I didn't watch any of the election coverage except catching Walker's speech. I will say that I'm glad he acknowledged that the way he rammed through his policies without discussions with the minority was wrong. Sure was an expensive way for the governor to learn a lesson.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
In the final 23% of the votes in that district ...... the guy who was losing 53-49% in 77% of the precincts won the final 23% of the precincts, or 18,000 or so votes by 60+%,
It just seems like a rather large swing ..... especially given that the rest of the areas around Racine went for Walker ... as did Racine County itself.
I bet we see a recount in that county. It just looks suspicious.
What is the percentages of Republicans, Democrats and independents? Ohio has a large swing at the end of each election because Cuyahoga County is always one of the last to report. If you take Cleveland out of the equation I would bet there wouldn't be that big of difference between the parties.
It's one county. I'm not sure of the makeup, but everywhere around that county went for Walker.
It was just kind of weird that Walker won that county by 6 points, but they recalled their State Senator ...... and that he was leading by 4 points with 77% of the county in ....... only to lose by 2 points when the remaining 23% was counted.
It's one heck of a swing. That's all I'm saying.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Got up this morning and picked the paper ( Plain Dealer ) and expected to read all about the recall .. Nope ; was bask on page seven .. Thought that was kind of funny ( strange ) given the importance and implications of the election..
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As a Democrat
Scratches 79 off my Christmas card list 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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The silent majority has spoken. The dems and the unions put a lot of resources into this campaign and came up short. Contrary to what the media was reporting, the Republicans pretty much kept their distance from this. I thought it was pretty funny listening to Ed Schultz tearfully broadcasting the outcome on MSNBC. He's been especially ruthless toward Walker.
WOW,, I'm shocked,, you listend to Ed Schultz... LOL I can't stand that bias fool...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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....and that 8:1 didn't account for any of the union, PAC and media assistance given to his opponent. Any way you slice it, it was the people of Wisconsin that voted. Given the media coverage, you'd have thought that Walker was the devil and would lose in a landslide. There certainly is the appearance of a silent majority prevailing.
A good point that I didn't consider, but that PAC and union money still didn't make the overall money close. I'm no more comfortable with any out of state PACs and union money going to the Democrat, unless those unions have membership in Wisconsin. If elections really were just about a triumph of the will of the people, why does more money lead to victory such a high percentage of the time?
Is that really the ideal of an election? Walker received huge sums from people with no stake in Wisconsin. A much larger percentage of his money came from outside the state. I'm willing to bet that many of the outside unions have membership in Wisconsin, and therefore have some stake in the state, although I could be wrong. The PAC money sucks no matter which side uses it. None of that bothers either of you guys that a few very rich people can essentially buy an election? What if that were Ohio? Would you be excited if Sheldon Adelson essentially bought our governor?
It's estimated that the unions poured 60m into this election....a recall fiasco that wouldn't even have taken place were it not for continuous union and media influence from outside the state. I don't recall Walker bussing in instigators from all corners of the country. Walker did not have an unfair advantage, he tried to even the playing field.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Considering your last few Christmas cards and the attached pictures, I consider this a blessing.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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You don't like red thongs 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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J/C
It is a shame....it is a shame that a Governor actually tries to get his state out of debt from the people who get better benefits than the tax payers paying for them. It's a shame that a governor actually has the stones to be responsible.
No tears here except those of happiness. Next is the big "0" and his unconstitutional spending buddies who can't come up with a budget.
"My signature line goes here."
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I've seen it reported that it has only been attempted three times, either in history or just this century, and Walker is the only one NOT recalled. On what do you base your opinion that it is extremely difficult to re-call a Governor, since it has succeeded two out of three times?
He won by a larger margin than the original election. Unions of public employees have had their political power reduced. Contracts that are financial suicide for cities may become less common.
I believe Wisconsin was also the state that booted over 10,000 people off of Welfare just a few years ago. This was also called a great disaster by the media. Very few news stories that no one starved to death, and something like 87% reported that they were better off. That means that these 10,000 were sucking at the public teat for no reason whatsoever, other than they could, with Democrats in charge.
There a few that are starting to get it.
Union membership in Wisconsin has plummeted since the bill passed and was signed into law by Governor Walker.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/06/01/wisconsin-union-membership-tanks/
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I don't care who you support, or what party, but the amount of money being poured into politics is disgusting, and wrong. As a nation we should all be upset. I'd like to see all funding be public . The canidates could stump for themselves as long as they wanted, but it would have to be face to face as there wouldn't be any money. Limit all public spending to 6 months prior to any election.
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J/C
As somebody who is in the early stages of a teaching career here in Cleveland, I'm interested as to how this will affect Wisconsin's schools.
Because from what of I've seen in Cleveland, if teachers do not get paid in the 50,000-80,000 per year range, there will be a shortage of teachers. Meaning that Cleveland will have a hard time hiring and maintaining a staff. As a result of a lessened salary (30,000-40,000/yr), teaching in Cleveland will become a "revolving door" type job, as educators will be leaving frequently for other professions that pay the same with less aggravation, or higher pay.
I'm not directing this at any of you because I agree with a lot of what Kasich says, but I don't think teachers, especially in the Cleveland District, are getting presented in a positive light in all of this. I keep reading posts on cleveland.com about teaching being a part time job because it is only 9 months a year. What some of these folks don't know is that within those 9 months, teachers are in classrooms for 6-8 hours a day and doing follow up work on an average of 8-10 hours per week. Some big tasks that non-teachers forget about are as follows: creating lesson plans, creating and copying worksheets, grading papers, BIG ONE: noting why particular students are struggling and tailoring their individual lesson plans. These tasks alone will take 8-10 hours per week. Then don't forget about extra-curriculars that aren't paid extra for, such as: supervising detention, tutoring after school, parent teacher conferences, and faculty meetings.
Then don't forget about the classroom climate itself. Please understand I'm not talking about all districts here. In urban districts, teachers have to collaborate with parents who can't get their kids to school on time if at all. Teachers have to deal with daily behavioral disruptions within class, and teachers have to find ways to motivate and retain some students whose parents have no interest in doing so. - This isn't done smoothly within the school day. This stuff happens after school and sometimes on weekends.
I'm not saying any of you are guilty of this, but please don't think of teaching as a part time profession, because a teacher's workday during the school year isn't a regular 9-5.
Again, it will be interesting to see how this plays out in Wisconsin. I've heard that with the money they've saved that they will be able to hire more teachers, which is great. However, let's see how long they can retain them for. Because I bet I can ask most of you to tell me what your 2nd, 3rd, and 4th grade teacher's names were, but imagine if those teachers left midway throughout the school year for a better paying job.
Imagine having a class of 3rd graders receiving a different teacher midway through the year. - Somebody who is not familiar with any of their learning styles, accommodations, or family situations. I suppose the way out of this would be to have these people sign year long contracts. But ask yourself, how many people are willing to get a college degree and deal with licensing when they are only guaranteed a one year contract coming out of school? Their only alternative is a simple one: don't become a teacher.
If I'm wrong, tell me. I'd love to discuss.
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Sorry. I disagree. Teachers are paid just fine. The retirment is to kill for.
Everyone wants to be paid more, me included. Sorry, I know too many teachers. Their life isn't as you describe.
They don't have it easy, but come on.........in comparison to other jobs, they don't have it tougher either.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,144 |
It's not the teachers that a lot of people are against, it's the unions....all unions representing government employees.
How on earth can a politician who comes into office with the help of a government union objectively represent the taxpayer in contract negotiations?
No one should be able to campaign for, or donate money to, a politician who determines what the taxpayers have to pay them in wages and benefits. Those political favors have to be repaid....at the citizens expense.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Wisconsin Governor Defeats Recall
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