|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Active Browns look to be improved By MIKE McLAIN Tribune Chronicle Phil Savage was off the mark a bit when asked at the NFL Combine if the Cleveland Browns would be as active in free agency as they were last year. The Browns general manager said he didn’t anticipate landing a haul of eight players, which was the final count of the 2006 free-agent class. Savage indicated that the Browns would probably add about five players this year. When the Cincinnati Bengals opted to not match an $8 million offer sheet extended to defensive tackle Shaun Smith, the Browns officially added their seventh free agent. The total ties Tampa Bay for the most players signed since the market opened March 2. As expected, both lines were targeted. After re-signing center Hank Fraley before he became a free agent, the Browns added guard Eric Steinbach and center/guard Seth McKinney. On the defensive side, Smith and tackle/end Robaire Smith have been added. Rounding out the list of players signed are running back Jamal Lewis, cornerback Kenny Wright and linebacker Antwan Peek. Peek was an undersized end with the Houston Texans, but the plan is to move him to outside linebacker. It’s difficult to grade a free-agent class before one practice has been conducted. Things can change between now and the end of the 2007 season, as the Browns painfully discovered last year when prized acquisition LeCharles Bentley suffered a serious knee injury on the second day of training camp. Following is a look at some of the position groups as they currently stand and what the future holds in terms of the draft: * OFFENSIVE LINE: Assuming Steinbach and McKinney start at the guard spots, the line will be significantly better. Joe Andruzzi and Cosey Coleman, last season’s starting tandem, might have been the worst duo in the NFL. Coleman is headed elsewhere, while Andruzzi could remain as a backup or be waived. The feeling within the organization seems to be that the $49.5 million contract given Steinbach is expensive for a guard. Steinbach has the athleticism needed to make the move to left tackle. That could happen in the not-too-distant future, which would put his contract more in line with the position he plays. McKinney was a standout center at Texas A&M and 31 of his 34 starts with Miami were at center. With Fraley in the fold, McKinney, who missed last season after having surgery on a disk in his neck, will likely get the call at right guard. Look for the Browns to target at least one offensive lineman in the draft. It could be Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas with the third overall choice. Another possibility, in the second round, could be Joe Staley of Central Michigan, who impressed scouts at the combine and at CM’s pro day. * DEFENSIVE LINE: This area was a mess at the end of last season. The additions of the Robaire Smith and Shaun Smith, who was a restricted free agent, can only help. Robaire Smith has had quality seasons as a 3-4 and 4-3 end, including five seasons on two tours of duty with Tennessee and two seasons with Houston. Robaire Smith will replace the sub-par Alvin McKinley, who’s still shopping his services. That trade-off might be the biggest upgrade on the roster. Shaun Smith is a wide-body, 325-pound tackle that will play the nose. He could replace the 39-year-old Ted Washington, who has virtually no ability to slide along the line. At the very least, Shaun Smith will give Washington breaks to make sure both players have fresh legs. The Bengals viewed Shaun Smith was a backup in their 4-3 system, which is why they didn’t match the four-year tender. Some close observers of the Bengals think that he can be effective as a space-eating nose tackle. Having the Smiths on board doesn’t mean the Browns won’t go after a defensive lineman in the draft. In fact, if they trade down to seventh or eighth in the first round, don’t be surprised if they select Michigan tackle Alan Branch. * RUNNING BACK: The opinions on how much gas Lewis has left in the tank range widely. Some think that if put into the right situation he can still be a load to handle. He did play last season with painful bone spurs in an ankle, a problem that was cleared up with surgery after the season. Others think that he left his best on the field after a 2003 season in which he rushed for 2,066 yards. His yards per carry dropped from 5.3 in ‘03 to 4.3 in ‘04, 3.4 in ‘05 and 3.6 last season. Lewis is only 27 and hasn’t had a major injury since tearing a knee ligament in 2001. He definitely has more speed than Reuben Droughns, who was traded by the Browns to the New York Giants for underachieving receiver Tim Carter. That alone makes him an upgrade. Lewis’ arrival by no means rules out the possibility of drafting a running back. It could be Oklahoma’s Adrian Peterson in the first round. If not, expect a running back to be added in the draft. * SECONDARY: Wright wasn’t signed to challenge for a starting job opposite Leigh Bodden. He’s 29 and has played with four teams in eight seasons. His performance last season with Washington wasn’t up to the standards needed to qualify him as a starting candidate. With the number of injuries that devastated the cornerback corps last season, the Browns felt a need to add depth to the back end. The hope is that DeMario Minter, a fifth-round draft pick last year who missed the entire season with a knee problem, will step in as a reserve. Wright will contend for the fourth spot. Adding a quality cornerback is a major need and could be addressed early in the draft. Adding a couple picks in a trade down in the first round would allow the Browns to target Michigan’s Leon Hall in the first round or perhaps go after someone like Texas’ Aaron Ross with an extra pick in the second round. * LINEBACKERS: Peek played linebacker in the Texans’ 3-4 defense the first three years of his career but was miscast as an end in coach Gary Kubiak’s 4-3 last season. He showed some pass-rush ability in 2005, when he recorded six sacks and had 57 tackles while starting 16 games. Peek exhibited an explosive first step in college at Cincinnati. He had a school-record 27.5 career sacks, including 12.5 in his junior season. He has young, strong legs, which are qualities that are no longer there for Willie McGinest. The Browns selected a linebacker with their first two draft choices and three of their first four last year. It’s doubtful a linebacker will be selected high in the draft process this year. mmclain@tribune-chronicle.com
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,567 |
Good Read. But, this was sorta like an overview of what's happened so far...........
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832 |
Long article... bullet points...
• 2006 FA class had big names like Bentley, McGinest, and Jurevicius.
• 2007 FA class has Steinbach.
• I don't know much about Robaire and Shaun Smith. I *hope* they finally give us some stability up front.
• I am intrigued by Peek.
• Dubious to Wright.
Despite the holes on defense - defense has still looked better than offense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Good read Peen,,, thanks
Stienbach was a no brainer for me.. I wanted this guy and was happy we got him. Everyone else looks like role players.. Peek could be interesting if he's able to make the transition to OLB..
I don't know what to think about Lewis,. I keep thinking that he is either a stop gap this year, never to return. Or, he's a guy that was on the bubble production wise and Savage said, prove you still got it and we will make sure your here for the remainder of your career... I figure the worst case is that next season, Lewis comes back as a goal line/short yardarge guy, ala bettis at the end of his career. I don't think there is any question that he's big and tough enough for the role.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520 |
"The feeling within the organization seems to be that the $49.5 million contract given Steinbach is expensive for a guard. Steinbach has the athleticism needed to make the move to left tackle. That could happen in the not-too-distant future, which would put his contract more in line with the position he plays."
If they got him with this in mind, don't expect JT here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
He is not making LT money.Its a new era in the salary cap.When a top notch LT hits the market,look for Clements type numbers.He was brought here to play LG,a position we badly needed.His signing will have no bearing on who we draft in round 1.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
OFFENSIVE LINE: Assuming Steinbach and McKinney start at the guard spots, the line will be significantly better.
The Browns aren't really looking at McKinney as a starter, are they? 
Quote:
The feeling within the organization seems to be that the $49.5 million contract given Steinbach is expensive for a guard. Steinbach has the athleticism needed to make the move to left tackle. That could happen in the not-too-distant future, which would put his contract more in line with the position he plays.
The Browns aren't really thinking along these lines, are they?
Quote:
When the Cincinnati Bengals opted to not match an $8 million offer sheet extended to defensive tackle Shaun Smith, the Browns officially added their seventh free agent. The total ties Tampa Bay for the most players signed since the market opened March 2.
Building a team through FA is stupid. Most of the guys we have picked up since Savage has gotten here are not guys you "build" around. We are just throwing money away and then neglecting those positions in the draft. And the dumb-ass fans buy into this nonsense, saying stupid [censored] like, "Savage is not ignoring the OL and DL. He addressed them in free agency."
Meanwhile, the Browns continue to post one poor record after another. They are continually in the race for a high draft pick rather than a playoff bid. During the season, all agree that both lines are the problem. Of course, as the draft approaches, both the team and its fans become infatuated w/the skill positions and we "fix" both lines in FA, so we can draft "difference makers" on day one.
I'm starting to get a bad feeling about which way the Browns are going to go in this draft. I pray that I'm wrong, but the feeling is there nonetheless.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
• I don't know much about Robaire and Shaun Smith. I *hope* they finally give us some stability up front.
• I am intrigued by Peek.
Robaire Smith bleongs on the line above with Steinbach  He's a proven player with a ton left in the tank. Not only will he make the DE position stronger but you'll see more life out of the LB playing on his side. I can only guess that he's a gift for Wimbley to see what he can really do. Most underated signing of the year 
As to S Smith and Peek..... Remember how over the years the Browns would be aching for someone to step up and provide a spark and once they did that player seemed to get less and less playing time ? 
That's both of these guys. Peek looked like a star in the making in 05 but then the Texans changed schemes and Peek faded into the background. If Wimbley can command the OL attention then Peek should be a very pleasant surprise on the other side. How'd you like to see 8-10 sacks from the #2 OLB?
We need at least one more DE but once that is addressed we should have a very decent front 7. How old were you the last time you could say that? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I´m more and more with you Vers....this is from yesterday evening: From Fox Sports Radio: They are reporting a deal is almost done for the Browns to get the # 2 pick from the Lions. They are going to have Pat Kirwan on Chris Meyers show shortly. It sounds like the Lions may be on the way to the double trade down if this deal goes through. The Lions will get an extra pick to move down 1 spot with the Browns. John Clayton is now saying it is the #3, #36, and a 7th for the #2 pick ------------- If this is true, I don´t trust Savage anymore....or Lerner...pick your poison...if this goes through I´m p!ssed....can we please for once do something halfway right when in a crucial situation of the franchise? 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,165 |
Quote:
If this is true, I don´t trust Savage anymore
Amen
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
From Fox Sports Radio:
They are reporting a deal is almost done for the Browns to get the # 2 pick from the Lions. They are going to have Pat Kirwan on Chris Meyers show shortly. It sounds like the Lions may be on the way to the double trade down if this deal goes through. The Lions will get an extra pick to move down 1 spot with the Browns.
John Clayton is now saying it is the #3, #36, and a 7th for the #2 pick
Are you freaking kidding me?
Come on, someone explain this to me. I am always being called negative. Now, I welcome the chance to be called negative. Someone...anyone....tell me that this can't possibly be feasible. Tell me the Browns are too smart to do something so MOTHER [censored] STUPID!!!!!!! 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
Quote:
"The feeling within the organization seems to be that the $49.5 million contract given Steinbach is expensive for a guard. Steinbach has the athleticism needed to make the move to left tackle. That could happen in the not-too-distant future, which would put his contract more in line with the position he plays."
If they got him with this in mind, don't expect JT here.
If JT is the one they want then it makes sense to float out there that they are going to move Steinbach to LT 
Hell... I have no idea what they are doing... figure it'll all clear up in 2 months.
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,447 |
Well if this deal is for real ... And I don't care who the choice with the pick .. Oppie is a Doppie ! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
Quote:
Quote:
From Fox Sports Radio:
They are reporting a deal is almost done for the Browns to get the # 2 pick from the Lions. They are going to have Pat Kirwan on Chris Meyers show shortly. It sounds like the Lions may be on the way to the double trade down if this deal goes through. The Lions will get an extra pick to move down 1 spot with the Browns.
John Clayton is now saying it is the #3, #36, and a 7th for the #2 pick
Are you freaking kidding me?
Come on, someone explain this to me. I am always being called negative. Now, I welcome the chance to be called negative. Someone...anyone....tell me that this can't possibly be feasible. Tell me the Browns are too smart to do something so MOTHER [censored] STUPID!!!!!!!
I'm going to be pissed beyond belief if we do this....
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,470
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,470 |
Quote:
Quote:
The feeling within the organization seems to be that the $49.5 million contract given Steinbach is expensive for a guard. Steinbach has the athleticism needed to make the move to left tackle. That could happen in the not-too-distant future, which would put his contract more in line with the position he plays.
The Browns aren't really thinking along these lines, are they?
I've read a few reports they say they are and it really disturbs me.
![[Linked Image from i98.photobucket.com]](http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l272/iambrown92/lama.gif) Peace, Love and Football
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 832 |
Quote:
John Clayton is now saying it is the #3, #36, and a 7th for the #2 pick
SMOKESCREEN. *IF* it happens... we should start the fire Opie petition.
Matt Millen is a moron. I have to believe Phil is baiting him into something.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
Clayton is usually pretty on - which scares me...
of course there was just a report saying that the Donks were trying to move up to #2 as well... man I hope this is all smokescreen... if not I'm going to be PISSED especially depending on who we take.
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Only explanation I have is:
Millen and Savage have a "smokescreen deal"...the Lions want picks and the best possible deal, that´s why they need us to up the price for the #2 pick.....and Millen gives the #2 away for a QB hungry team so that we can draft Thomas...that makes sense doesn´t it? Please say so
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OFFENSIVE LINE: Assuming Steinbach and McKinney start at the guard spots, the line will be significantly better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Browns aren't really looking at McKinney as a starter, are they?
I was asking myself the same thing,., you know how we have been hearing rumors that Bently might return by October,, (it's a rumor,,don't get too excited) Well, if Stienbach goes to LT, Bentley slides into LG, Fraley at Center, Tucker or McKinney at RG and Shaffer at RT..
Worse things could happen I suppose.. Personally, I rather get Joe Thomas, keep Steinbach at LG, Fraley at Center, Bentley (if able) at RG and Shaffer at RT..
Now you got Tucker as depth on the Right as either a guard or tackle, McKinney as backup as Center or Guard, Bentley as back up extrodinaire at Center, Druzzi as back up at LG and Stienbach who could move over to LT if needed..
And you still have Sowells at either one of the tackle or guard spots as Depth and someone from the draft.. (I think Dorsey is gone by the way)
Interesting isn't it. Plenty of possibilities
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157 |
Never happy are ya? I read several posts stating that you were pleased with what Savage has done this off season. Getting Steinbach, not overpaying for Clements, etc... Quote:
Building a team through FA is stupid. Most of the guys we have picked up since Savage has gotten here are not guys you "build" around. We are just throwing money away and then neglecting those positions in the draft. And the dumb-ass fans buy into this nonsense, saying stupid [censored] like, "Sav`ge is not ignoring the OL and DL. He addressed them in free agency."
Now you turn around and state how stupid he is by building through free agency.
Savage is simply upgrading positions and getting depth. If a player hits the free agent market and is better than the players you currently have then you obviously try to sign them if it financially makes sense.
We have the money to make the upgrades so what's the problem?
We only have 7 draft picks. Can't possibly fill every need with them.
I trust that Savage and the coaching staff know what they are doing. We have to believe that. We can't constantly second guess every move. People like to put up previous draft picks and show who was still left on the board when we picked a player that didn't pan out. That can go both ways. Sometimes we pass on the can't miss player who never does stud out. Nobody seems to mention that bacause it doesn't suit their argument.
You really seem knowledgable, but you are just so damn negative all the time. We all want the team to get better and win. As much as we like to think we know better than the coach or GM we are all just fans making a semieducated opinion of the situation. The coach and GM have a hell of alot more knowledge and insight as to the true situation then any of us ever will. They are there day in and day out, interacting with the players, breaking down film, assessing the problems, talking among the position coaches, getting outside evaluations from true NFL people.
Most of us get all of our information from the message boards. There are so many different opinions on these places that you can usually find someone to help support your argument or motive.
We all know that the line has been a problem. The team also knows it. If they feel that by drafting Thomas we will overall be a better team than by drafting a different player then I'm sure they will do it.
We all have our players we want for one reason or another, but we don't get to make the final decision. Savage does.
I trust that he knows more than you, me, or any other message board GM does.
I have a job that I get paid to do and it is my way of supporting my family. I am good at it and that's why someone is willing to pay me to do it.
Savage is highly respected among people in the know in the NFL. He gets paid to do his job and he is also good at it.
Try a little support instead of constantly second guessing him all the time.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
A double trade down by the Lions might actually work in our favor. It could be we won't have to give up a pick....the unknown team might be giving the pick and we will give a player to the other team.
Just a thought.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
OFFENSIVE LINE: Assuming Steinbach and McKinney start at the guard spots, the line will be significantly better.
The Browns aren't really looking at McKinney as a starter, are they?
I thought the same thing. I figured Andruzzi would still get the call and McKinney was brought in for backup purposes for the two positions he could play.
As for your other qoutes, your disagrreing with this writer, with the pickups Savages made, that make Joe Thomas less of a need. If Thomas does get drafted I do see Andruzzi getting cut if he dont have a good preseason.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
As an example....and this is just throwing names and teams out there for illustration purposes only....you can mix and match teams and names as you wish.
We move up to the #2 pick and send Frye to the Vikings.
The Vikings swap pick 7 for pick 3 and send the Lions a 2nd rounder.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 157 |
Quote:
John Clayton is now saying it is the #3, #36, and a 7th for the #2 pick
Could just be that Savage is just trying to set the market.
If he feels that moving up one spot is worth a second and a seventh then what is it worth to a team to jump several spots. This could just be a way to get increased offers for our own draft spot. Just a thought.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
RoadDawg,
In general I agree with your post, but there are incompetent people in all professions. Or if you want to view it differently, there are people that are only so-so at their jobs. Not everyone can be a superstar.
Having said that, I think Savage has proven to be slightly above average so far with a chance to really elevate himself with this draft.
This is the year for him to show if he is a star in the making or just so-so.
If his draft sucks OR if he pulls off that ludicrous trade with the Lions that is now swirling in the wind, then I think he'll fall into the 'below average' to 'nearly incompetent' category.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Where are you hearing this??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024 |
???
If you're referring to the trade with the Lions, it's about 10 posts up.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
As an example....and this is just throwing names and teams out there for illustration purposes only....you can mix and match teams and names as you wish.
We move up to the #2 pick and send Frye to the Vikings.
The Vikings swap pick 7 for pick 3 and send the Lions a 2nd rounder.
Still horrible deal...but trade value chart wise it would be too good for us....Frye isn´t worth a 2nd rounder......which other "expandable" player do we have that is worth a 2nd rounder?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
I´m more and more with you Vers....this is from yesterday evening:
From Fox Sports Radio:
They are reporting a deal is almost done for the Browns to get the # 2 pick from the Lions. They are going to have Pat Kirwan on Chris Meyers show shortly. It sounds like the Lions may be on the way to the double trade down if this deal goes through. The Lions will get an extra pick to move down 1 spot with the Browns.
John Clayton is now saying it is the #3, #36, and a 7th for the #2 pick
-------------
If this is true, I don´t trust Savage anymore....or Lerner...pick your poison...if this goes through I´m p!ssed....can we please for once do something halfway right when in a crucial situation of the franchise?
If the Browns make this stupid trade, I think its pressure from Lerner Jr. to take a QB with the pick. With too many holes to fill, the Browns cant afford to give up two picks that high. Especailly when no player in this years top 5, maybe other then Calvin Johnson, is a sure thing. I have always thought Savage hated to trade away extra draft picks. He stated one year that he hated it when Baltimore moved up in the draft and traded away next years picks. Thats where Savage makes his mark, with making valuable draft picks. Why take away two players from the draft when they still need a CB- and o-line and d-line youth and depth?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 253
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 253 |
jc, i completely disagree with moving up but if we do then it better be for JT if we draft Quinn im going to be yelling meecrob all freaking day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Quote:
???
If you're referring to the trade with the Lions, it's about 10 posts up.
LOL....sorry...the question was for the person you had quoted...sorry for the confusion.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
Quote:
John Clayton is now saying it is the #3, #36, and a 7th for the #2 pick
Butch Davis,call for you on line 1.
As of right now it's just a rumour.I don't believe our present GM is that inept.
I've liked Mckinney,as a guard.He will be the starting RG,by default anyhow.Andruzzi is shot,sowells won't be ready,Smith and Matua?one of the 2 will be gone.
It will be a great day when Mckinney will be our guard/center backup,but that day is off in the future somewhere,I hope.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,550 |
Quote:
jc, i completely disagree with moving up but if we do then it better be for JT if we draft Quinn im going to be yelling meecrob all freaking day.
A trade up won't be for Thomas....we can get him where we sit....and we aren't going to do that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Never happy are ya?
What's it to you?
Quote:
I read several posts stating that you were pleased with what Savage has done this off season. Getting Steinbach, not overpaying for Clements, etc...
Yes, I was. One could say this proves that I don't just react negatively to every move he makes. I think them through and make a decision.
Quote:
Now you turn around and state how stupid he is by building through free agency.
<sigh> Learn how to read. My comment about building through FA was a response to starting McKinney at RG and Steinbach at LT. I prefaced my comment by asking if either could be true.
Quote:
We only have 7 draft picks. Can't possibly fill every need with them.
No [censored]? Gee, thanks for that tidbit.  But, the Browns have not drafted OL or DL on day one in how long? Has the FA "strategy" worked? Are you saying it's been successful? Is it intelligent to keep repeating the same mistake over and over?
Quote:
I trust that Savage and the coaching staff know what they are doing. We have to believe that. We can't constantly second guess every move.
You are telling me what to think. And you don't even feel any trepidation in doing so, do you?
Quote:
You really seem knowledgable, but you are just so damn negative all the time. We all want the team to get better and win. As much as we like to think we know better than the coach or GM we are all just fans making a semieducated opinion of the situation. The coach and GM have a hell of alot more knowledge and insight as to the true situation then any of us ever will.
For the umpteenth time............it's a [censored] messgae board. We express our opinions. It doesn't change a damn thing. I don't follow you around and question your thought process or tell you what to think. I comment on the what the Browns are doing. That is why I came here. I did not come here to defend my right to have an opinion to the likes of you. Get over yourself. You can't tell others what to think. Express your opinions on the THE BROWNS........and quit trying to impose your will on others!
Quote:
Savage is highly respected among people in the know in the NFL. He gets paid to do his job and he is also good at it.
He earned respect as a scout. Not as a GM! His teams are 10 and 22 in his two years. That's not earning respect.
Quote:
Try a little support instead of constantly second guessing him all the time.
There you go again. Telling me what I should do. Can I play? Why don't you go [censored] yourself?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
* DEFENSIVE LINE: This area was a mess at the end of last season. The additions of the Robaire Smith and Shaun Smith, who was a restricted free agent, can only help.
Robaire Smith has had quality seasons as a 3-4 and 4-3 end, including five seasons on two tours of duty with Tennessee and two seasons with Houston. Robaire Smith will replace the sub-par Alvin McKinley, who’s still shopping his services. That trade-off might be the biggest upgrade on the roster.
Shaun Smith is a wide-body, 325-pound tackle that will play the nose. He could replace the 39-year-old Ted Washington, who has virtually no ability to slide along the line. At the very least, Shaun Smith will give Washington breaks to make sure both players have fresh legs.
The Bengals viewed Shaun Smith was a backup in their 4-3 system, which is why they didn’t match the four-year tender. Some close observers of the Bengals think that he can be effective as a space-eating nose tackle.
Having the Smiths on board doesn’t mean the Browns won’t go after a defensive lineman in the draft. In fact, if they trade down to seventh or eighth in the first round, don’t be surprised if they select Michigan tackle Alan Branch.
I was thinking...if Alvin McKinley dont get signed after the draft, and the Browns dont address the d-line in the draft, that the Browns should re-sign him. At least for one year. I know he doesnt get alot of support from this board, but for cheap (possibley league minimum), I think he would be a valuable pickup for preseason competition. He knows the defense and depth is always needed if someone goes down in camp. Statisticly, I dont think Robaire Smith is going to get much better numbers, in tackles, forced fumbles and sacks. McKinnley also is a beast in blocking FGs. I think Pittsburgh would be smart to pick him up because he has experiance in the 3-4 and 4-3, which is favored by Tomlin.
I know this isnt the best source, but I have a buddy thats a Bengals fan, and he told me he read an article about Shaun Smith possibley playing defensive end in the Browns 3-4. Most likey on running downs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Only explanation I have is:
Millen and Savage have a "smokescreen deal"...the Lions want picks and the best possible deal, that´s why they need us to up the price for the #2 pick.....and Millen gives the #2 away for a QB hungry team so that we can draft Thomas...that makes sense doesn´t it? Please say so
I can see why Millen would want to do this, but why would Savage play along?
Are you suggesting that Millen went to Savage and told him if he wasn't able to trade down, he would draft Joe? Or, am I misreading your post?
Hell, I hope you are right, but that seems a bit far-fetched.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 60
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 60 |
j/c I don't know what you all are screaming about. What major mistakes has Savage made so far in his first two years of bringing players into Cleveland? Non that I can see. He's made some (and a very few at that) iffy picks and one or two of those was worth the gamble. This still is not going to be a one year building process so take a breath, grap a coffee or a coke (the drinking kind ) and let Savage do his thing. If, IF his pick at whatever positon turns out to be a bum in a years time then feel free to slam away. But don't give yourself heartburn over it yet. All rumor and speculation and even if true I'd trust Savage to know what he's doing. And yes Lerner maybe asking that he get a QB for business reasons and that too is life in the NFL these days. The 60's are loooong gone. It's nice to win the big one these days but it's more about how much money can be made along the way because wins don't do anything but boost sales for one year, look at the squeelers and other "winners" of the past few years. Consistant winning, a cosistant "show" (ya to all but a couple of thousand people it's all enertainment) keeps the cash flowing in  Ok enough from me, rant off. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
![[Linked Image from i74.photobucket.com]](http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i270/Vincent143/angry_dog.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,550
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,550 |
The trade rumor started up friday and has yet to produce any actual quotes from anyone. 3 days of digging u would think something would have been found more than the same rumor from friday. This one is just looking like the PFT philosophy of throwing tons of crap at the wall and patting yourself on the back when a nugget sticks.
Calvin will go top 2 so why would the Browns look to trade up if they are set on a quarterback and even if he doesnt teams across the board would love to come up for Calvin if he is sitting there. It just doesnt make any sense what so ever. Simple fact is that teams that are looking to move up arent looking to move up for a quarterback.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Only explanation I have is:
Millen and Savage have a "smokescreen deal"...the Lions want picks and the best possible deal, that´s why they need us to up the price for the #2 pick.....and Millen gives the #2 away for a QB hungry team so that we can draft Thomas...that makes sense doesn´t it? Please say so
I can see why Millen would want to do this, but why would Savage play along?
Are you suggesting that Millen went to Savage and told him if he wasn't able to trade down, he would draft Joe? Or, am I misreading your post?
Hell, I hope you are right, but that seems a bit far-fetched.
If the rumor is true and Savage is playing along, it could be to drive up the price value of the Browns #3 pick, if they are planning on trading down.
The trade makes no sense to me also.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 688
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 688 |
the only trade talks i saw in print were with the broncos, and they aren't willing to give up many picks so they quit talking.
i don't see this move at all with the browns. not with what was quoted as to what we would have to pay. i just don't see it........
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sunday morning read
|
|
![[Linked Image from img507.imageshack.us]](http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/171/sigyg0.png)
