DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum McCoy vs Weeden

I looked for Weeden on the player history but there was nothing so.....I looked it up on Ok ST football site.
http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/weeden_brandon00.html

Weeden has been touted for his accuracy which was over 60% (66% in 2010) and has over 4,000 yards passing with only one loss last year.

McCoy was also very successful with only one or two losses during his carrer each year and Texas went downhill rapidly after he left falling to 5-7.
http://www.texassports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2009-2010/histcarr.html#55

His accuracy was also better with 70% completion average during his last year.

And what is your point and/or conclusion?

What do we really know and why should we be so optomistic? I think Weeden will require much more practice then we think since he has only played around 15 games.

This post is my favorite.

We made it to June 8th. That's a longer stretch than most years.

I think if Holcomb was here, it'd be a different story.

The wins mean something.. but not everything..

ask my old boy David Greene of UGA who use to hold the most wins record in the NCAA until Colt surpassed him.

The real funny thing about this.. i just thought about it...

Holmgreen drafted David Greene too!!! wow.. thats crazy.. .

*shudder* I hope you realize the extent of revulsion you created for me by typing that.

hey, he's learning...

he didn't draft Kellen Moore.

Couch Coddler.

Someone...please...make the bad man stop...

Well, David Greene was more like a Colt McCoy type pick .... taken in the 3nd round with the 85th pick ......

Colt McCoy, oddly enough, was also the 85th pick in the 3rd round of his draft.

If you can't find it on the internet it never happened.

Link

72% completion rate in 2011.

I think the entire perpetuation of a "QB competition" between McCoy and Weeden is preposterous. The team drafted Weeden to be the starter, end of story. McCoy would have to have a phenomenal pre-season for the brass to even consider starting McCoy over Weeden. Heckert's said they drafted Weeden to be the starter, Shurmur's even said he wants to name Weeden the starter.

The only reason there's any notion of "McCoy vs Weeden" is because they (I think it was Holmgren but I am too lazy to fish a quote, but "They" is the team in this instance) have told us it's a competition. The entire notion is ridiculous. The media is hyping Weeden to the point of hyperbole (depending on how seriously you take Tony Grossi...) and chastising Colt's "poor play" in OTA's to an almost equal degree of negativity.

You ask me, McCoy vs Wallace is the real QB battle of the camp and pre-season... the starting job is Weeden's to lose and judging by Weeden's confidence, Shurmur's confidence in Weeden, and managments confidence in Weeden, they might as well name B Dub the Cleveland Browns starter already...

I think the competition is good for everyone. It allowed everyone to see for themsevles which QB was better. No one likes to see someone come in and just be handed the job. What if they hand him the job and he is a total ass that thinks he knows everything? How about if he doesn't want to put in the work, just happy with his new found millions? How about if he just sucks?

There are many reasons to have an honest competition and even more reasons not to just hand the job to a rookie.

Is Weeden under contract yet? It seems like you should probably wait until he is officially signed before naming him to be the savior of the Cleveland Browns.

Colt McCoy audio on Dan Patrick Show

I think it's funny how Patrick asked Colt about if his agent requested a trade once Weeden was drafted.. and he said.. "I don't know." lol.

I wish he would just say something to the extent of He wants to start, but if Weeden gets the nod.. I'm still going to support my team and do all I can to help us win games.

And it is time yet again to pursue a starter at QB; I am encouraged that though he will need practice, I hope Weeden gets all the reps he needs to perform well. Our self-inflicted controversies diluted the reps, and reps are how teams get improved starting at the individual level. We needed a starter to get more practice reps. Weeden is capable of many good things. With help and reps, even more. Even with all the reps in the world, can McCoy throw a crisp deep route well? Remains to be seen. But I do want to see this big arm prepared well.

I tend to agree that it's a sham. that there really isn't a competition. But what message does that send if they don't say there is. What message do the other players get?

Honestly, I think the Browns are playing this perfectly.

I agree (I think!). Weeden should be getting all of the first team snaps and then some. It would be foolish to take snaps away from the starting rookie for a pseudo-competition.

keeping in mind that your starting qb rarely plays all 16 games here, its important that Colt gets some first-team reps as well.

We didn't draft Weeden to compete for the job, but we couldn't just hand it to him in case he was a major bust.

I think the Browns have a good handle on this.

Yep, better to build as much of a chemistry as possible with all of them because at some point in this season they just may be on the 1st team.

It is a competition, however the team already knows what McCoy can do, and they have decided that whet he can do is not good enough, thus they drafted his replacement.

It's similar to Hardesty's situation. If he somehow went through the pre-season and looked absolutely unstoppable, and did everything right, and Richardson slipped, then Hardesty could take the starting job away from Richardson ...... however the chances of both of those things happening are slim.

The team has been evaluating both McCoy and Weeden since the rookie camp started. They have watched how they each handled things, from the media, to the competition, to making individual throws .... and in every regard thus far, from every objective observer, Weeden has been out in front consistently, and by a wide margin. Weeden had one day where he was off, but other than that, he's largely been pretty impressive. McCoy has largely been what he was last year, and the team has already decided that last ear's Colt McCoy is not good enough.

So there is a competition, and it is a fair competition. McCoy must show that he is not what he showed himself to be last year, and that he is actually amuch better player than that. Weeden must show that he really is the #1 QB on this team, and that he's ready to grab the position and make it his own.

I think we all know how the competition has gone so far.

McCoy can throw 4 TDS and 1 INT in the preseason and Weeden can throw 1 TD and 4 INTS but Weeden will be the opening day starter.
The Browns didn't draft him to sit behind McCoy.
I think with the recent successes of Dalton,Newton,Flacco and Ryan the days of a 1st RD pick sitting for 3 years is done.
Weeden is too old at this point to sit for 2 years.
Its now time for Weeden.

Your first line is true, because the Browns see more in Weeden than they do in McCoy.

Now if McCoy suddenly showed an ability and proclivity for throwing downfield, with accuracy and strength, making all of the throws, properly leading receivers, being able to place the ball properly so that receivers can run after the catch, and so on ...... then he might have a case for being the starter. Unfortunately for him, he hasn't.

As it stands, Weeden is everything the Browns hoped he would be. They drafted him seeing certain abilities, and he has brought them to the Browns, while learning the offense far quicker than anyone thought possible, adapting to being under Center almost immediately, handling the footwork almost perfectly, and so on. He also makes all of the throws, and commands the offense on the field.

All of these things lead to Weeden being the starter this coming year, and hopefully for many years to come. (because that would mean that he is successful, which would also lead the team to being successful .... which is what we all want)

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Your first line is true, because the Browns see more in Weeden than they do in McCoy.

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Yup, it's probably true, but should it be?

If McCoy outplays weeden in Preseason and does it by a significant margin, would it still be the right move to put Weeden in as the starter in the first real game?

Logically, you would think that the guy that played better would be the starter.. I would say that with every single other position on the team, that's what would happen. But with the QB,,, I think they still pick Weeden.

Keeping in mind, just because McCoy played better in Preseason and won the starting job, that doesn't mean he'll keep the starting job.

If McCoy outplayed Weeden by a significant margin, you would have to look at the hows and whys.

Did McCoy play against second string defenses? What did he do that allowed him to play better than Weeden? Has he addressed his weaknesses from last year, or is he simply looking better than a rookie at this point in his development?

There are other similar questions that would enter into it, but you get the point.

Right now I see very little chance that McCoy significantly outplays Weeden, because (as I have said all along) I see major flaws in McCoy's game. I see structural flaws in his abilities. He might be OK as a game manager type backup QB .... and might even be a guy who could help a strong enough team win a game here or there, but I just don't see him as a guy you can build a team around.

You must really think I'm some kinda idiot of something Ytown. of course you gotta look at stuff like that.

I'm talking level playing field. if he played better against first team D's with our First team players,, then you gotta say,, hey. wait a minute. why should anyone but him start?

But I don't think it will matter, I think the decision is made and that's that.

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If McCoy outplays weeden in Preseason and does it by a significant margin, would it still be the right move to put Weeden in as the starter in the first real game?

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Daman...if McCoy looks good or even better than Weeden in the preseason games, don't count on him being named the starting QB for the Browns.

One of the reasons the Browns did not deal McCoy right away was the lack of offers. Rather than release McCoy, the Browns will do their best to show case him in the preseason to see if they can improve his trade value.

Fans may believe that there is some kind of competition going on between Weeden and McCoy for the starting job and the coaches and front office might even push the idea to the media...but Weeden will be the starter unless he is injured.

If the Browns get an offer for McCoy, he will be traded.

If the Browns do not get an offer for McCoy by the final cut down date...then things could get interesting...would the Browns cut Wallace or attempt to deal Wallace rather than McCoy?...it's possible.

All I know is I wish I had a penny for every word posted on here over the years about our QB's and who should we should draft, start, trade for ,sit or HANG.

I'd be a rich man right now. If I was Colts,Patriots,Steelers,Saints or Packers fan I couldn't afford to buy a drink. I'd rather be broke... I sure hope we can talk about some other postion like this next year... enough already.

I guess this fits here:

Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about the Browns' QBs and growing LB depth, the Cavaliers' draft choices and the steady rise of the Indians' Michael Brantley | clevel...
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2012/06/terry_plutos_talkin_about_the_51.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- It's summertime, and the QB decisions are easy. So we're talkin'...
About the Browns preparing a quarterback ...

Realistically, do you believe the Browns would draft Brandon Weeden at No. 22 and then not prepare him to be the starting quarterback? Sure, they can talk about "competition," whatever that means. They have yet to anoint Weeden as a starter ... and in the name of Otto Graham, it's already the middle of June!

What are they waiting for?

I don't really care what they say in public, Weeden is their guy. Just watch the body language when coach Pat Shurmur discusses his new quarterback. He's like a teenager who just got his first new car -- and he thinks it's a Corvette.

I don't really worry much about Weeden not always taking snaps with the first team -- and it's June already! And these guys are in ... shorts! I trust the fact that when it comes to preparing quarterbacks, Shurmur and offensive coordinator Brad Childress know what to do.

When he was offensive coordinator in St. Louis, Shurmur put Sam Bradford in to start as a rookie. Childress was the head coach in Minnesota, the offensive coordinator in Philadelphia.

He has handled more than a few quarterbacks.

You can be sure Mike Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert -- two veteran football men -- are not about to allow anything in practice to sidetrack Weeden. They are heavily invested in making sure their 28-year-old quarterback is ready, because they were strongly second-guessed nationally for drafting Weeden too high.

This is not 2009 when Eric Mangini was the coach and was picking between Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn. Mangini really wanted to select "None of the above." Since that wasn't an option, he counted practice and preseason game snaps to make sure it was "fair" and evenly divided.

Nor is it Romeo Crennel "flipping a coin" between Anderson and Charlie Frye to select a starter for the first 2007 preseason game.

Shurmur already said Weeden has received the most snaps, and it sure appears that way at the OTAs and in minicamp the last few weeks.

About Colt McCoy ...

Questions about whether McCoy is happy are misplaced. He knows Weeden is destined to start, unless the rookie from Oklahoma State is injured or forgets how to play. McCoy wants to start.

The real question about McCoy is this: Is he disruptive around the team? The answer is no. Has he practiced as he should, done his work in meetings and everything else that is expected of him? The answer is yes. That's according to the coaches that I checked with.
There are better and more successful quarterbacks than McCoy (6-14 as a starter) who were starting a year ago and now are backups: Jason Campbell (Chicago), Rex Grossman (Washington), Kyle Orton (Dallas) and Vince Young (Buffalo). All but Campbell (31-39) have winning records for their careers as starters. Campbell was 11-7 in the past two seasons.
So it's not as if McCoy would leave here and compete for a starting job somewhere else.
Happy or not, he'd be wise to make it work here as a backup and be ready in case Weeden is hurt or severely falters.


About the Browns ...

1. Fifth-round pick James-Michael Johnson has impressed at linebacker, which is important. With Scott Fujita likely suspended for the first three games -- and ending the past three seasons on injured reserve -- there is a need for depth at the position. Johnson (called "JMJ" by coaches and teammates) has looked good at middle linebacker and on the outside.

2. If Fujita is out, Kaluka Maiava joins D'Qwell Jackson and Chris Gocong in the starting lineup. Johnson becomes the top backup. The Browns also want him on special teams. They like how Johnson has been able to get the players in the right positions when filling in for Jackson at middle linebacker. It probably would not be wise to play Jackson 100 percent of the snaps, as they did last season because of a lack of depth.

3. It's early, but I hear undrafted rookie receiver Josh Cooper has been more impressive than Carlton Mitchell, who has spent most of the past two years on the inactive list. The Browns like Cooper's hands. He caught 139 passes from Weeden the past two years at Oklahoma State.

4. Seventh-rounder Brad Smelley of Alabama has looked good on special teams, and as a tight end/fullback. A player in his spot needs to show he can play a few positions and be important to special teams. Cooper also has shown that he can help in coverage units.

5. While the Browns are very upbeat about Mohamed Massaquoi, I have doubts because of how he's played the past two years and because he has had two concussions in that span. Greg Little looks strong. After that, the receiver positions should be wide open.

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You must really think I'm some kinda idiot of something Ytown.

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*snickering*...

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Rather than release McCoy, the Browns will do their best to show case him in the preseason to see if they can improve his trade value.

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I'd rather be giving as much possible time under center to the guy I just drafted in the 1st round to replace the guy you'd wanna showcase, but hey, that may just be me...

Just clicking

Read this on ESPN Cleveland and thought you'd all find it interesting, it also seems to fit nicely into this topic


http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=1245

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By: Will Burge

Weeden warming up – Brandon Weeden did not throw the ball well early on in the final day of mini-camp. He threw a deep pass over the middle that was horribly underthrown and was nearly intercepted by Eric Hagg. It was by far the worst deep ball we have seen him throw. He was also nearly picked off multiple times during red zone drills including one where Dimitri Patterson bated him into throwing a pass right at him. Weeden threw an interception to Usama Young that was not his fault, however. It was a fade route in the corner of the end zone that Evan Moore totally gave up on allowing Young to get the pick.

Then, he turned it on. He connected two different times over the middle to Greg Little for touchdowns in 11 on 11 drills. He also hit Jordan Norwood on a very nice out route for a touchdown. Most importantly, when everyone was covered in the red zone, he put the ball where his receiver had a chance but no one else did.

Vocal in the huddle – At the start of red zone 7 on 7 drills, Brandon Weeden walked into the huddle and said “We’re catching everything!” to his receivers. He then connected on a 7 yard pass to Ben Watson and followed that up with a TD pass to Greg Little in traffic.

Joe Thomas talked about Weeden taking command of the huddle and letting everyone knows he is in control.

He said, “That’s kind of what you expect your quarterback to do and it’s nice to see him do those things.”

Illegal contact – The defense is obviously chomping at the bit to get some pads on and hit. There was two tackles and that is definitely not allowed in mini-camp. In fact, the Seattle Seahawks were just docked OTAs for having too much contact in camp.

D’Qwell Jackson tackled Evan Moore after a catch and then slapped him on the helmet as Moore sat on the ground complaining. Antwuan Reed, a rookie DB out of Pitt, tackled Jermaine Saffold after a catch near the sideline and Pat Shurmur exploded. He stopped practice and screamed at Reed for tackling.

The Browns cannot afford to lose an off-season practice time.

A little time off – Today wrapped up mini-camp for the Browns. They will have four days of OTAs next week and then everyone gets some time off until the start of training camp. There is no official date set, but it looks like camp will start the last weekend of July.

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1) I can see Weeden being a QB with a ton of comeback wins.. He may mess up early, but when its said and done, he will come through in the clutch..

2) If you are a Cleveland Browns fan in the media.. why would you report to the media that tackles were made in practice? Stop snitching!!