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That 84 sup. draft was awesome!
Anyone else remember sittin at ol muni stadium waiting for the browns to receive a kickoff or punt while the entire stadium chanted : "cube, cube, CUBE, CUBE, CUBE"!!!!
haha, good memories!
Yes they where, but I always felt like there should be an (*) followed by that years Supplemental Draft, because of all of the talent coming from the USFL.
I think there is an *. This was the USFL draft (for all intents and purposes).
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I would probably make my jokes about the other stuff, but I still would think the speed was irrelevant.
So they would just be jokes?
You see, I've witnessed many who have frequented this board to stand strong behind the issue of character for a very long time.
I've seen them throw the red flag when a kid has had an issue with dicipline on their NCAA record. I've seen them throw a red flag when any illegal drug was an issue.
And when a kid gets two strikes and is kicked off of their team, I've seen people down right say they wouldn't want a kid who was willing to gamble millions by making the same mistake not once, but twice.
That those are the exact type of things that show you a kid has no dedication to the game. No dicipline or loyalty to his team mates. That his priorities are out of order and they really aren't worth the gamble unless they're taken late.
Now all of a sudden, it doesn't seem like an issue to anyone on here. Now taking such a product is "smart", "worth it","they're all gambles" and everyone seems willing to bless the very type of athlete that so many, only a few short years ago, wouldn't have wanted anything to do with.
I'm not saying he's a bad kid. I'm not saying he will turn around and make the same mistake again. But for everyone to suddenly think taking the same type of player so many wanted nothing to do with in the past is a good thing, I find more than just a little puzzling.
Not you per say, but it's funny how something that seemed so very important and telling signs supposidly to some, is suddenly a non-issue.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Believe me, I am nervous as hell about this factor ..... not so much that he smoked pot ..... but that he smoked pot several times, knowing that it could get him kicked off of his team.
Now he says that he's stayed away from it, and that he's passed even a surprise drug test, so I hope that's true. It's going to be a concern for several years though, until he proves that he really is over that part of his life. (and even though some people on the boards don't think that it's a big deal, it is a huge deal because it could cause him to be suspended if he decides to smoke it up again)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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that he's passed even a surprise drug test
i hope he's past that point in his life and all of that too. but, I think it's hilarious to consider it a "surprise" drug test.
the kid was going through a personal combine of sorts in preparation for the NFL Supplemental draft as the highest profile guy. he had a history with MJ.
surprise! drug test.
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I just know in the past, it usually makes the draft value of a player with such issues drop quite a bit. At least in "most" FO's around the league. They weigh that heavily when slating where a player is to be drafted. And we're not talking a three year WR putting up huge numbers here. In this case, I really haven't seen it addressed very much here. Actually, little if any to amount to anything. Kind of like, since it was us that picked him, now suddenly it's a non-issue. We weren't any better a few years ago when this seemed like a big issue to some. Is it that the lust for a winner here has clouded the thinking of how some so much they just don't care anymore about what we spend on an athlete that was willing to gamble his own future money and draft staus not once, but twice just to smoke some bud? That was willing to hurt his team and college due to his absence on the roster letting his team down that way? I don't know, but a lot of people have done a 180! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well Im pretty glad we got this kid. Like others I think he can help the team out this year and even though the dont release the results I wouldnt be shocked at all if other teams also offered up a 2nd round pick.
Maybe this time we will read in the future about what a great move this was instead of reading how some other team got a steal in the 2nd round for years to come knowing we could have had him,
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I'm a big character guy...pot can be a problem no doubt.
But Gordon got the best lesson he could have ever gotten with Baylor's explosion this past year. I mean he's sitting on his couch somewhere not playing football and Baylor is just blowing up! RG3 wins the Heisman. Kendall Wright is a mid first rounder. I mean if I'm that guy I'm literally tearing my hair out and kicking myself.
All because he smoked some more weed.
That's a serious wake up call. I think he got the message.
I'm not too worried about him. I could be naive though.
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'More than shocked' Josh Gordon vows not to 'let down' Browns for picking him By Will Brinson | Senior NFL Blogger Everyone was pretty stunned when the Browns decided to use a second-round pick on Josh Gordon during the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft on Thursday. Even Josh Gordon. The wideout said that he was "more than shocked" by how early the Browns took him and never thought he'd be taken that high. "I was more than shocked for sure," Gordon said on FOX 26 Sports in Houston, via Pro Football Talk. "I definitely didn't think that high, but I'm thankful for the opportunity ... I'm definitely in shock. It still probably hasn't hit me yet." But Gordon also told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer that the faith that the Browns showed in him by using a second-round pick won't go unrequited. The newest Cleveland wideout promised to stay clean and said that he "won't let them down." "Despite everything I've been through, despite being a kid with a spotty background, the Cleveland Browns stuck their neck out and risked taking me and put their faith and belief in me, and I won't let them down," Gordon said in a phone interview. "I'm grateful, and I know I can't go back to being the person I used to be." Actually, the Browns would like Gordon to go back to being the person he used to be, as long as it's on the football field. Gordon's a physical freak with size and speed who could become a legitimate playmaker for Cleveland. But he's also not the first potential-ridden player to enter the NFL, and if you think that the Browns panicked and pulled the trigger on Gordon in the second round, well, you wouldn't be alone. CBSSports.com's Clark Judge wrote just that yesterday, and Ryan Wilson and I discussed the snowball effect from last year's draft on our most recent podcast. And, of course, we're not alone. Several execs told NFLDraftScout.com's Rob Rang that the pick was a surprise. (To say the least.) Naturally, if everyone else is shocked by the pick, so is Gordon. It's great that he's going to work hard to prove the Browns decision right, but it also means that he's got a ton to live up to, thanks to the vacuum-like nature of a second-round supplemental pick. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on...for-picking-him
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If his only problem is weed, then I'm not concerned.
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The wideout said that he was "more than shocked" by how early the Browns took him and never thought he'd be taken that high
just to keep with our recent draft picks all singing this same tune
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One thing I didn't think of....he's going to want to be paid like the #34 pick in the draft. I wonder if that becomes a sticking point.
If he holds out he has little hope of helping us much early in the season.
I thought of that as well. I don't think that will be the case, but we would have to look at similar cases to see what sort of precedent has been set.
My feeling is he needs to be paid like a 2nd rounder, but as far as I am concerned he was the last 2nd rounder picked.
We used our number 34, so it won't be that.
Again, history is going to lead the negotiations.....but there isn't a whole lot of history, so it's hard to say, but Gordon can expect what he wants, he isn't getting #34 money.
I just hope all sides agree it needs to happen quickly. Screw the obligatory low-ball offer and screw the pie in the sky demands. Settle on a fair bonus amount, settle on a 4 year contract with fair kickers to make it a good deal for the player and the team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I doubt he gets more than then next years 34th or this years 34th. He shouldnt get more than Schartz, who was 37th.
I see him signing quickly.
I agree on him being signed as a late 2, early 3rd rounder.
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If I were him, I'd tell my agent to get my butt signed ASAP. Knowing he's already a tad late, he can't afford to miss a single second of camp.
And the same sentiment goes to the Browns FO. You threw up a desperation 2nd on this kid because you wanted him this year. Don't nickle and dime him.
You'll both benefit by signing quick. So do it.
Speaking of singings......Weeden and Richardson still aren't signed. With the rookie salary scale...whay is this taking so long?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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replying to a few things.
Gordan's speed. Speed is not an issue for this kid, like Haden he has football speed and not track speed where getting out of your stance is everything and for guys that didnt run track this just aint a natural thing for them. this is especially true for a guys that are big. Stephen Hill is just a freak. Most of Gordon's highlights you see him running away from the DB. That is speed.
off the field stuff. My BS meter didnt go off with this kid like it didnt with both Blackmon and Floyd. Now I missed on Nick Fairley as well, but environment is key. This team seems to have a lot of quality people and they arent afraid to talk to players they see going down the wrong road.
Value. 2nd round is very high value and maybe to high but I can guarantee Heckert was seeing elite level skills in this kid to take him that high. Heckert was acting like wow we got a steal in this kid. That says something. It may say he doesnt know a thing about drafting receivers lol but hey we will know soon enough. Gordon is gonna compete.
Bottom line, we have the most athletic group of receivers we have had since Davis, Morgan and Cutt.
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I think he saw a gaping hole in the roster. And he made sure he filled it even if he had to overpay. But I think Momass is junk and if Benjamin can't hold onto a football all the speed in the world means nothing. We need a guy who is a legit deep threat. And from the highlights I've seen it looks like he fits that bill to a tee. Kind of exciting! 
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Neither Luck nor Griffin III are signed, so that's probably holding up Richardson. Richardson said something about his deal being almost done, just waiting for the 2 guys ahead of him to finalize theirs. I wouldn't worry about it. Camp doesn't open for another couple of weeks, and I'm sure they'll all be there from day 1. (July 28th)
I doubt very seriously that Weeden misses one second of camp. He wants to be the starter, and the Browns want him to be the starter. Holding out doesn't make that happen.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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J/c...
Kind of surprised about the stance on the contract. I would think the point of negotiation would be whether he'd get 2012 #34 money or 2013 #34 money. I don't really see the basis for saying mid or late second or even third cash for this pick.
On a related note, did the CBA do away with the rookie pool? I don't remember hearing anything about it this year, but if it exists, I'm sure he'd have to fit in.
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we used the #34 pick this year so he should get the same contract of the #34 this year. It will be pretty much what Swartz got.
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I'm just really happy that we have physically imposing WRs like Gordon and Little that won't get beat up on the LOS.
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There is still a rookie pool for each team, based on the picks they have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
I think he saw a gaping hole in the roster. And he made sure he filled it even if he had to overpay.
But I think Momass is junk and if Benjamin can't hold onto a football all the speed in the world means nothing.
We need a guy who is a legit deep threat. And from the highlights I've seen it looks like he fits that bill to a tee.
Kind of exciting!
I don't know if MoMass is junk or just injury prone. When healthy he's been decent with reliable hands. But man,, it's like you touch him and he's down.
I don't call that junk but that's a matter of opinion.
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If his only problem is weed, then I'm not concerned.
I'm fine until Weeden becomes a problem for him . . . 
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If his only problem is weed, then I'm not concerned.
I wanted to comment on this.
You can think that it's not a problem based on your own morality and opinion on drugs, but the simple fact is that he can be suspended if he tests for marijuana. In that regard, it IS a potential problem.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm just really happy that we have physically imposing WRs like Gordon and Little that won't get beat up on the LOS.
Me too, but I won't expect too much this year from Gordon at least not in the early going.
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What I think Candy was trying to say (...and I really should let him speak for himself) is that MJ use isn't really a hard habit to kick. Easier than caffeine or nicotine, on the scale of things.
Personally, I think that most of these young guys are fine as long as they're around their team mates and staff. The problems seem to ocurr when they go back to their old friends and haunts in the off-season. SOMEONE needs to step up, glue this kid to his hip... and mentor the hell out of him regarding the old addage:
"Old habits die hard."
If he can stay clean for an entire calendar year, limit his exposure to the old krew and old haunts, he should be OK. From all he said, he seems to understand the situation AND the stakes. The brass ring just got grabbed. If he's smart (and not pathologically self-destructive), he'll realize the golden opportunity he has.... and can make the right choices for his life.
What a [potential] success story this is.... from 2 strikes/full count to an NFL contract. You couldn't sell a script like this to the most desperate producer in Hollywood....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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That's my concern.
If a guy had friends a couple of years ago who like to smoke it up, then it's likely that he still does. He may not have as much access to them, and that's fine during the structure of the football season, but with the money he'll make, it'll be easy for him to go visit these friends. Will he then be strong enough to say no to his friends when they want to party it up?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ya know...I had this rather in-depth short-story laid out about how I viewed Gordon, what he means to this offense, and what this offense means to the future of the team, but I think I wanna keep this short-and-sweet just for effect:
Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur have pushed their collective chips to the middle of the table and said they are betting their jobs...and the foreseeable future of this team...On two receivers in Little and Gordon who came to the NFL with character issues and iffy resumes, a 2nd round RT that wasn't rated as highly as we took him, and on a 29-year old rookie QB who is attempting to do what nobody has ever done in NFL history.
That's scary. Very scary.
This group won't get to pick the next QB or receiver if these guys fail, and the guys that come behind them won't have anything to show for three second round picks and a first round pick at QB. Kinda sounds just like what Mangini left us with when he had a treasure-trove of draft picks.
I'm not offering an opinion of how well these guys may or may not do, but I just wanted to note the amount of risk these guys have taken to try and go for the quick-fix. If they aren't right...and Richardson is the only guy considered to be a lock...we're facing a new President, a new GM, and a new coaching staff all over again. And that won't start until after the 2013 season.
I've seen this organization come up craps way too often...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Nice post.
There will be a lot of second guessing options based on the selections.
The one thing that I will say, is that I tend to give Heckert the benefit of the doubt on his reach picks. He made several reaches this year, and that will be either good or very bad.
It was pretty obvious that the Browns were not comfortable with the WR corps, and I am not sure that Gordon is the answer, his speed of integration into the offense will be critical to the success of the Browns.
I can't expect much more this year than progression. 2013 will be the beginning or end of this regime.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I like it
It is a complete 180 from what Mangini believed in. I hate safe conservative philosophies. The best teams in the NFL had to take a risk at some point.
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I don't know if I love the team or not, time will tell that, but I do love we are doing something about being stuck in the mud.
In one draft we added a RB,QB,RT,WR...all high picks with high expectations. That's making a move. I like that. I am tired of the slow boat.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I like it
It is a complete 180 from what Mangini believed in. I hate safe conservative philosophies. The best teams in the NFL had to take a risk at some point.
I would remind you that Mangini was the person whom amassed the treasure trove of draft picks Heckert has enjoyed. Mangini did NOT have that advantage nor did he have the opportunity to use the picks he had amassed.
But I think that’s what Toad was eluding to of course it totally escaped you because you didn’t understand the circumstance that Mangini came into nor do you fully understand what he did to try to correct those circumstances and make them better for the future.
But the youth movement you’re now witnessing was set in motion in no small part by Mangini. It’s important to be fair and honest, and what you’re doing is showing your ignorance of some of the circumstances that led us to where we are now.
BTW Toad I agree they have indeed pushed their chips to the middle of the table, it’s about time. Better yet I can support the attempt…
JMHO
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Speaking of singings......Weeden and Richardson still aren't signed. With the rookie salary scale...whay is this taking so long?
Nobody really wants to play for the Browns, despite what they say on draft day or what you read in the newspapers.
There is a culture of losing in this town. There has been for most of the last dozen years and there isn't anything that's going to change it except actually winning the games.
I fully expect that Richardson and Weeden will probably be holding out into camp. Why? What are the Browns going to do, go into the season without either one or both of their first round selections signed? What do you expect their agents to do? They'll pry every last penny from the Browns that they want to get and the Browns will pay it.
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This is a huge risk..one I hope the kid is ready to move on..I know how I feel about these issues..
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wow....  I'd be very surprised if one of them is not signed let alone both of them before training camp... we'll see...
<><
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You see, I've witnessed many who have frequented this board to stand strong behind the issue of character for a very long time.
I've seen them throw the red flag when a kid has had an issue with dicipline on their NCAA record. I've seen them throw a red flag when any illegal drug was an issue.
I hear ya,., it's scary that he's had these issues. They spent an entire day with him, he's got references from his former HC and another guy they trust named Norwood
It appears to me they'd done a hell of a lot of discovery on the kid and apparently they feel as if he's cleaned up his act,
I don't know that he has or hasn't. Of course, I've never met the kid and don't know.
But red flags do bother the hell out of me. I won't lie to you. I wonder if putting a couple of million dollars in this kids pocket will cause him to take a different view of life and fall back into his old ways.
It's a huge issue with me., I wonder if this was smart.
But, I made a few mistakes as a kid.. I turned out ok. (nobody dropped a boat load of money on me so who knows what might have been)
Here is what we know. the FO did some digging. they talked to the kid for a DAY.
it could just be that he's OK.. Maybe the work they did to look into the kid will be prove worth while and he'll be a star and a stand up man,.'
I tend to want to allow a kid some mistakes. But watch closely
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Joined: Oct 2009
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I know their taking some gambles, but I would be very surprised if Heck was shown the door. I think he stays. He has shown time after time that he can draft players. We don't know how much say Holms and Shurms had in some of these picks. I would hate to give him up. I think we can start over with a new coach and staff without getting rid of our best draft man at least since weve been back.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
Me thinks you give Genie way to much credit. All he did here was waste draft picks. How many #2 & #3 picks do we have left? When Mass goes that will be the end of some of Genies mess. Heckert's cleaning it up.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
That's scary. Very scary.
This group won't get to pick the next QB or receiver if these guys fail, and the guys that come behind them won't have anything to show for three second round picks and a first round pick at QB. Kinda sounds just like what Mangini left us with when he had a treasure-trove of draft picks.
I'm not offering an opinion of how well these guys may or may not do, but I just wanted to note the amount of risk these guys have taken to try and go for the quick-fix. If they aren't right...and Richardson is the only guy considered to be a lock...we're facing a new President, a new GM, and a new coaching staff all over again. And that won't start until after the 2013 season.
I've seen this organization come up craps way too often...
It's simple, all they have to do is perform and all of that is a non-issue. It's well known that I'm not a Chumley & Sherman fan by any stretch, but I do believe Heckert has a nose for talent and believe that he believes he has assembled the best talent available to him, in positions of need, during his time bracket. I do feel optimistic about that and the direction of those players, (and just to stay on point, I do like the Gordon pick because if he even comes close to realizing his potential, he's a steal).
We may have witnessed slight desperation on Chumley's part with the Weeden pick, (the QB genius who brought you the power trio of Delhomme, Wallace & McCoy,) but it was a calculated risk, and I believe that Heckert believes that he does have talent and value, and true NFL QB potential.
The wild card in all this? Sherman and his complete lack of game planning ability. Will that change with the addition of (Childress) Mr. Peabody? Let's hope so, because if they can't figure out how to beat the opposition in this division, then it won't matter who they drafted. I'm hopeful for the season, (6+ wins would be miraculous,) but wouldn't be surprised to see a new HC in here next year because we don't win more than a handful of games because of that.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 Likes: 3
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Me thinks you give Genie way to much credit.
And me thinks you are incapable of realizing nor giving credit to him for what he did right. Which by far outwieghted his poor draft...
But more on point had Koke worked out and been able to uphold his end of the deal we are a winning team right now not talking about whether or not our draft picks will be who we hope they will be, or whether or not Shurmur is worth spit (he's not BTW).
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,390 Likes: 886
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,390 Likes: 886 |
What treasure trove of draft picks did he amass for Heckert to enjoy?
What did he do right that outweighed 1 good draft pick?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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