I think this should be moved to the supplemental draft forum
from the article about the TCU RB:
Quote: The NFL hasn’t confirmed whether it has approved Wesley or anyone else for the supplemental draft, but the list of eligible players is expected to be revealed next week, and this year there could be up to 10 players available. Other names that have been mentioned as possible entries in the supplemental draft include Georgia safety Bacarri Rambo, Kansas State tackle Manase Foketi and Boston College running back Montel Harris.
The ex-Baylor WR is intriguing for size, speed, and production the last time he played. I've never watched him, though.
Remind me how the supplemental draft works? As I understand it, we could use a 3rd round pick in the supplemental on Gordon, and only give up our 2013 3rd round pick, right?
Honestly, without knowing one thing about that WR...I'd give a pick for him. Why not? Maybe a 4th or 5th? He's gotta be better thansome guys who will be available then next April.
Quote: I was about to ask, does anyone know anything about that WR??
From the link:
Former Baylor WR Josh Gordon will enter the NFL Supplemental Draft, an NFL source confirmed.
Gordon (6-4, 225), who did not play last season after transferring to Utah, is known in scouting circles for his prototype size and athletic ability. Gordon had to sit out last season due to NCAA transfer rules. He was suspended by Baylor for the 2011 season due to violation of team rules.
In his last season at Baylor, Gordon posted 42 receptions for 714 yards (17.0 average) with 7 touchdowns. He’s also capable of returning kicks.
Gordon, who has been clocked in the 40-yard dash at Baylor as low as the 4.3’s, could go as high as the first half of the Supplemental Draft based on his upside and play making ability.
The Supplemental Draft is scheduled to take place on July 12, but the NFL has yet to confirm the date or whether there will actually be a Supplemental Draft. However, some player agents and NFL executives have been told the draft will take place on July 12, according to multiple sources.
Gordon (#12) highlights at 2:50, 3:00, 4:28, 6:55, and 7:32. Appears to have good size and speed, seems to be able to catch with his hands and not his body - but it is a highlight tape after all.
And then there's this one play that I didn't see in the highlight.
Someone will probably gamble on him, but I wouldn't risk more than a 5th or 6th rounder on him.
I get really nervous when a guy hasn't played in a year, especially when he won't be working out for teams.
I would guess that someone will put in a 3rd rounder on him ....... but probably not us. If Al Davis were still alive ..... I'd bet on him. Maybe Jacksonville takes a gamble on him, but they've been burned on WRs with character issues many times.
Depressing because of us not getting Griffin or Wright? I thought the video was a ridiculous show of poor defense. Those WR's are not going to run free across the middle all day long for Griffin in the NFL. Regarding Gordon, he looked big and fast, but every highlight of him appeared to be a sideline go-route. Not much in the way of running patterns, just pure speed. He might just be another Carlton Mitchell type project.
Good size and speed, decent hands but could improve with better mechanics in getting his hands turned consistently. Sloppy routes, just raw as a receiver and then you throw in the off the field stuff makes him likely to go undrafted but you never know we drafted Benjamin and he runs sloppy routes, with bad hands.
By Gregg Rosenthal Around The League editor July 2, 2012 at 11:06 p.m.
NFL teams can't totally take off the Fourth of July holiday. They have to prepare for another draft.
The league informed teams Monday that the supplemental draft will be conducted electronically beginning at 1 p.m. ET on Thursday, July 12.
The following players are eligible to be drafted: Boise State DB Quaylon Ewing, Utah WR Josh Gordon, Syracuse RB Adam Harris, Iowa State OT Adrian Haughton, Carson-Newman LB Larry Lumpkin, Georgia DE Montez Robinson, McMurray WR Houston Tuminello and TCU RB Ed Wesley. No other players are eligible to apply for the draft.
Gordon is likely to receive the most attention from media and teams in the buildup to the draft. I spoke with former NFL scout (and current NFL.com analyst) Daniel Jeremiah, who said Gordon is building some buzz among teams. Measuring 6-foot-4, weighing 225 pounds and possessing good speed, Gordon looks the part of a pro wideout.
Gordon produced solid numbers in 2010 at Baylor before he was suspended and transferred to Utah. He turned pro before ever playing for Utah and will have to answer teams' questions about off-the-field behavior before anyone will take a chance on him.
Quote: yeah, our GM would never spend a 2nd round pick on a WR who hasn't played in a year.
Jeremiah pointed out that guys are in this draft for a reason. They have physical skills, but off-the-field issues or problems have kept them from top-prospect status. Gordon was suspended at Baylor after a drug arrest. Every player has a story; Syracuse fullback Adam Harris said in college that he had to quit football because of concussions. Teams have to consider things like that.
I would hope not this one. You might see something a "Little" surprising this year. A WR with the rust off combined with a QB who can actually lead a WR.
Maybe you'll see why the investment was actually made.
I like Little. I said after our draft last year that Greg Little would be the best player of everyone we picked (but Sheard looks like he'll prove me wrong on that.)
I also wouldn't be opposed to burning a 3 or 4 on this Gordon guy if that highlight reel is an indicator of his abilities. We really have jack squat at wideout after Little... which is kind of mind-boggling considering the position we were in going into this past draft.
he can't do worse than Massaqiou. If the Browns can spend a 4th a lightweight FB and a TE who barely played the position,why not bring in Gordon? His body of work and resume is better than Camerons and Marecic's combined.
Quote: Dunno. Can't seem to find anything on the order, I just know I read somewhere we are close to the front...
Yes, it's based on this past drafts order of selection.
Any team who wants a player can send the league office a "bid" on a player. The team with the highest "bid" is awarded the rights to said player. The team who gets the player then loses that rounds pick in next years regular NFL draft.
The NFL’s 2012 supplemental draft will be held on Thursday, July 12. Former Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon is the highest-rated prospect available for this year’s summer draft.
A source with knowledge of multiple teams’ thinking told PFT that Gordon has generated a third-round supplemental draft grade from at least one club. The club plays in the NFC.
The source also says high-ranking people at Baylor believed Gordon was a superior player to Kendall Wright during both receivers’ time in Waco. Wright was drafted with the 20th overall pick by the Titans this year.
Gordon didn’t end up with the same body of work as Wright in college, but NFL teams are enamored with his size, speed, and potential. In his lone full season at Baylor, Gordon recorded 42 receptions for 714 yards and seven touchdowns, averaging 17 yards per catch.
Tony Pauline of SI.com reported late Friday that Gordon will hold a personal Pro Day on Tuesday at Rice University.
Quote: so he'll go in the second round, then? What teams have two 2nds next year? Do the Rams?
It doesn't necessarily go that way. The supplemental draft does a "lottery" to determine draft order. Until that draft order is set, any conjecture is just that.
Once the draft order is set, each team will submit its "bid" on any player they are interested in drafting, and the high bid wins. There could also be trades involved. Who knows what could happen?
It's actually kinda fun in that regard. We could find, for example, that the Vikings won the 1st pick in each round, and that they drafted him in the 3rd round ..... and upon winning his rights, trade him to another team in a pre-arranged deal for that team's 3rd and 5th round picks next year. (which could be better than that team using their 2nd on him)
Quote: The supplemental draft does a "lottery" to determine draft order. Until that draft order is set, any conjecture is just that.
Once the draft order is set, each team will submit its "bid" on any player they are interested in drafting, and the high bid wins. There could also be trades involved. Who knows what could happen?
It's actually kinda fun in that regard. We could find, for example, that the Vikings won the 1st pick in each round, and that they drafted him in the 3rd round ..... and upon winning his rights, trade him to another team in a pre-arranged deal for that team's 3rd and 5th round picks next year. (which could be better than that team using their 2nd on him)
Just food for thought.
Actually the draft order is already set, and was right after the Super Bowl. The supplemental draft order is the same as the April draft, without the traded picks, i.e. Atlanta has a 1st round pick in the supplemental draft. So Indy has the 1st pick, we have the 4th, Atlanta has 22, etc, same order as April. Of course if we, or any other team makes a selection in the supplemental draft we forfeit that rounds pick in the 2013 April draft.
Here is an interesting (and funny) mock draft for this draft... (hint we make a trade).
Essentially, the supplemental draft is a weighted lottery. Teams form three groups based on their records from the past year -- six victories or fewer, all other non-playoff teams, and then playoff teams. A lottery determines the order for each group.
Each team submits an electronic bid on a player in what they feel is the appropriate round. The team with the highest bid (for the highest round) wins but must forfeit its pick in that round in the next regular draft. If two teams bid on the same player, the team with the worst record is awarded the rights.
The system is completely different from 1985, when the supplemental draft order was the same as the regular draft order, but the NFL could not confirm that the draft process was changed because of the Kosar situation.
Back then, the team with the worst record the previous season owned the No. 1 pick in the regular draft and the supplemental draft. The Browns traded for Buffalo's No. 1 pick in the supplemental draft, which was held on July 2, 1985. But the real work on the deal was done in the months leading up to that.
Although it still sounds like it would be the very close to the April draft order. They do the lottery for teams with the same record, instead of strength of schedule as in the April draft.
So essentially; they break the teams up into 3 different groupings, then they break down those groupings based on won-loss record, and finally 'lotto' for teams with the same record. So Indy and STL both finished 2-14, they will lotto for the 1st overall pick rather than Indy getting it on a weaker strength of schedule. Maybe Minn is included as the only 3-13 team, or they go into the next subset with Cleveland and TB.
This, apparently, all to prevent a Kosar-esque manipulation of the the supp draft to go where a player wants to go.
Teams with 6 or fewer wins go into one lottery. Then teams that missed the playoffs. Then playoff teams. Each group has a lottery.
I can't find anything that tells if the lottery results are made public, or even available to the teams in advance of the electronic draft. They may draft blindly, having no idea where they are in the pecking order.
The list of teams heading to Houston to check out wide receiver Josh Gordon’s Tuesday workout keeps growing.
We learned earlier Monday that the Cowboys will be there to watch the former Baylor wideout do his thing and now a pair of AFC clubs have been added to the mix. James Walker of ESPN.com reports that the Bills will be in attendance and Nate Ulrich of the Akron Beacon-Journal passes along the same information about the Browns.
The Bills just signed third-round pick T.J. Graham, one of several players competing for time across from Stevie Johnson on the Bills offense. Donald Jones, David Nelson and Marcus Easley are also on the depth chart, but the Bills haven’t settled on anyone. They chased Robert Meachem as a free agent earlier in the offseason, which indicates a willingness to add bodies to the mix in an attempt to find the right piece for their offensive puzzle.
Cleveland can use all the help they can get on offense so that Brandon Weeden has a shot at doing better than his predecessors at quarterback with the Browns. The top receiver on the depth chart right now is Greg Little and his presence on the roster suggests that they might be less put off by the fact that Gordon missed the entire 2011 season than some other teams. Little was ruled ineligible before the 2010 season by the NCAA, but the Browns made him a second-round pick anyway and they are expecting him to anchor the receiving corps this season.
The Browns were also interested in Gordon’s former Baylor teammate Kendall Wright before the draft. Some scouts have deemed Gordon to be superior to Wright, who went 20th overall to the Titans in April.
We should definitely give him a shot, third rounder isn't that much to pay, we're getting him a year earlier than we would if we were drafting a player next year, and it is at a position of need.
You could be right, especially if a surprise team like Minnesota or Indy decided to go after him. Of all the teams that have been mentioned as interested, we likely have the highest pick, so our third rounder trumps most teams. However, we do assume more risk if we go beyond that as our 2nd rounder will likely be a top-40 pick next year.
I would be really leery about risking a 2nd rounder on the guy.
I'll defer to the front office, because I don't know a tremendous amount about the guy ...... but the whole situation worries me.
He's been out of football for a year ..... walked out on one team after being suspended, then walked on the team that took a chance on him before he ever played a down for them ....... and he comes from an offense without anything approaching the disciplined routes he would have to run here.
He look more like a project to me than a well rounded prospect. He's basically had one year of college football. He also doesn't seem like one of those guys who "really loves football" ..... which carries a ton of weight with our front office.
If you look at the past 10 years, the average round when guys are picked in the Supp. draft is the 4th and a lot of these guys didn't work out too well once they got picked..Hence why you better be pretty committed to the guy if you select him.
Jared Gaither and Ahmad Brooks are two guys who were considered the top prospects in their supplemental drafts who worked out pretty well. Nobody else comes to mind as a significant success.
I would say 4th or 5th round value based on what I have see of him. Now he has had a lot of time to work with these sports training facilities so he may have really refined his route running ability. Plus Heckert loves the physical freaks. Interview and private workouts will need to sell himself.
OO i forgot to add that these facilities really help these guys understand the process of route running and route running and the off the field stuff are his flags. Size, speed and pretty good hands are covered.
No doubt the supplemental is the path less traveled.
All I am saying is if the guy checks out and passes all your tests, there is no reason to try to get him on the cheap and lose out.
If he checks out as a 2nd round talent, then do it. I don't see it as any more of a risk then selecting someone else in the 2nd round next draft. This is next drafts selection.....just a bit early. We aren't giving up a 2nd round selection. We would be making a selection.
Quote: If he checks out as a 2nd round talent, then do it. I don't see it as any more of a risk then selecting someone else in the 2nd round next draft.
This.
We shouldn't play the "well, there are going to be good people available next year, so we should wait until then" game. Like you said, if you think the guy's worth it, you pick him now.
Frankly, I'll be surprised if we put in a 2nd round bid on him. JMHO
Quote: No doubt the supplemental is the path less traveled.
All I am saying is if the guy checks out and passes all your tests, there is no reason to try to get him on the cheap and lose out.
If he checks out as a 2nd round talent, then do it. I don't see it as any more of a risk then selecting someone else in the 2nd round next draft. This is next drafts selection.....just a bit early. We aren't giving up a 2nd round selection. We would be making a selection.
I'd be tempted to go third but the reality is that with this year, we're likely to be picking in top half of the draft again next year.
I'd throw out a 4th for him and cross our collective fingers. One good season in a pass happy, defensively weak conference doesn't exactly make him a slam dunk.
Browns have done a lot of work on ex-Baylor WR Josh Gordon in advance of Thursday's supplemental draft
Jul 10, 2012 By Tony Grossi ESPN Cleveland
The Morning Kickoff …
A second chance: The Browns will have two scouts in attendance for the pro day workout today of former Baylor wideout Josh Gordon, the only prominent name among eight in the NFL summer supplemental draft on Thursday.
No other members of the organization will attend the workout at the Houston Texans’ practice facility. But a source said the Browns have done a lot of legwork already on Gordon, who has elite athletic skills but was kicked off the Baylor team two years ago for testing positive for marijuana.
Gordon hasn’t played since establishing himself as a sophomore in 2010 with 42 catches for 714 yards and seven touchdowns – No. 2 numbers behind eventual first-round draft pick Kendall Wright. Gordon was arrested for misdemeanor drug possession for being a passenger in a car with marijuana in it. He proceeded to fail a couple of drug tests and was dismissed by Baylor.
Gordon transferred to Utah, sat out the 2011 season, and then petitioned the NFL to come out in the supplemental draft without playing a down. His dimensions – 6-3 and 220 pounds – and reputed 4.4 speed are intoxicating to NFL teams. He is bigger and faster than Wright, who was taken No. 20 overall by Tennessee in April.
The Browns knew of Gordon while scouting Wright, whom they were preparing to take at No. 22. Gordon wouldn’t be a bad rebound – and would cost less. The Browns are definitely interested, said a league source.
“He has three things against him,” said Dane Brugler, CBSSports.com draft analyst. “1. Usually guys aren’t taken as highly in the supplemental draft because teams are less than excited to give away futures; 2. He hasn’t played since 2010, his only year; 3. He has character and maturity questions.
“I think a lot of teams are curious. I’ve heard a few teams, the Cowboys being one, and a few others that are maybe a little more interested. I don’t think he gets out of the third round, from the amount of intrigue I’ve heard.”
A second chance for the Browns, too: The order of the supplemental draft is decided through a weighted lottery. The order is not disclosed to the teams until about an hour before the draft.
If a team decides to select Gordon, it notifies the league in which round it chooses to take him. The league then goes through the order and awards Gordon to the team with the highest spot in the round. The team awarded him gives up the corresponding pick in next April’s regular draft.
Heckert values future draft picks as much as any GM, but he is not opposed to using it on a player with Gordon’s potential, said the source.
“You look at our last draft … if there is something we weren’t able to get done, this is a second chance,” he said. “You’re getting a player early, but in this case it’s a little late, too, to help much this year.”
Heckert has shown he will take a chance on a risky player with athletic skills. He drafted receiver Greg Little in the second round in 2011 after Little missed the entire 2010 season at North Carolina because of a suspension. Little proceeded to lead the Browns in receiving as a rookie.
Gordon’s potential may be greater than Little’s. “He’s so physically gifted, the sky’s the limit,” Brugler said. “There are questions about route-running, the nuances of the position. But the NFL loves big, fast receivers.”
Doing their due diligence: Part of Gordon’s pro day will involve answering questions from teams about his bad decisions. According to a source, Heckert has talked with Gordon “for a long time” and has talked to others about him. At this point, Heckert does not believe Gordon’s issues are a deal-breaker.
The feeling is that because of Gordon’s year off, his shortness of experience and his absence from an NFL camp this spring, he won’t be a major contributor early to any team in 2012. But his huge potential at a position the Browns direly need to fill makes him an appealing investment.
When the Browns built their playoff teams in the mid-1980s, they left no stone unturned to fill needs. They’d trade for players, sign them from the Canadian Football League and the United States Football League. They jumpstarted a new era of playoff appearances by trading for the first pick in the 1985 supplemental draft to secure quarterback Bernie Kosar.
That controversial move changed the rules of the draft to the present weighted lottery system. Now it’s not just a matter of using a future pick on a player. If the Browns really want Gordon, they’re going to have to blindly select him higher than any other team. There’s no guarantee they can get him in the third round.
Thanks for the read, very interesting. We have the Baylor ties and we have need at receiver. I like Mo but I dont trust the concussions and his ability to stay healthy. Benjamin, i see a whole lot of Dennis Northcutt in him both good and bad. Cribbs has improved every single year as a receiver but he is not a full time receiver.
I have no problem if we take a run at the kid due to him being a huge kid with major speed and decent hands. The other stuff, we will see. Now we do know that Heckert likes Baylor kids. He loves athleticism in his skill players. He also is not afraid of off the field stuff from college if they can earn his trust (Sheard, Taylor and Little come to mind) where as Nick Fairley and apparently Justin Blackmon we were wowed by on the field but when looked at them closely, we took a pass on.
I still say 4th or 5th unless he really wows at his workouts and interviews but 3rd is probably as high as I go unless I see Andre Johnson type of skills.
Supplemental draft prospect Gordon runs 4.52 forty at Pro Day Posted by Evan Silva on July 10, 2012, 12:41 PM EDT Josh Gordon Pic
Top supplemental draft prospect Josh Gordon conducted an individual Pro Day workout at the Houston Texans’ indoor facility on Tuesday morning. Per Adam Caplan, most NFL teams in attendance sent two personnel evaluators – in most instances their college scouting director and one area scout.
The Philadelphia Eagles, Cleveland Browns, Buffalo Bills, and Dallas Cowboys were among the teams confirmed to have attended. Obviously, there were Texans officials on hand, too. In all, 21 teams showed up.
Caplan reports that Gordon ran a 4.52 forty-yard dash after measuring in at 6-foot-3 1/8 and 224 pounds. Gordon recorded a 36-inch vertical leap with a 10-foot, 1-inch broad jump. He did 13 reps on the bench.
While the forty time isn’t quite as good as the pre-Pro Day hype might have suggested, it’s still very fast for a human being who weighs over 220 pounds. Gordon is big, and he can run.
This year’s supplemental draft will go down on Thursday.
At least one NFL scout has described Gordon as a “rare talent as far as supplemental drafts go.” We don’t expect him to get out of the third round. web page
you think a guy thats only played one year of ball, been arrested and failed multiple drug tests, skipped on his new team because he was broke " cheap" in the second round?
some of yall are quite literally insane....
all ya talk about is how players need to prove it.....how slow progression to success isn't good enough.
then the solution is to draft a single year player with character concerns based solely on measurables? in the second round?
thats quite a gamble....even as the article states, he'll not likely contribute this year due to missed time. so whats the hurry to burn the pick? ya cant stash him on the PS, so you gotta activate him to catch splinters? great....flippin....idea! lets hamper the team and waste a roster spot on a guy thats not gonna play.
I can KIND of picture us offering a 5th, MAYBE a 4th . . .
With WR such a glaring need, look at what we came away w/ after free agency AND the entire 2012 draft. H&H aren't going to break down now and overspend on THIS guy, are they? Seems like too much off the field baggage to me.
Quote: wow.....desperation. most of you reek of it.
Have you seen our wide receivers?
Good news about the 4.52 is that it probably precludes us having to use our 2nd-rounder if we're interested. Hopefully the Bills don't get the draft order draw ahead of us and the Colts aren't interested (who even plays WR for them anymore?).
Do it Heckert. At the cost of a third round pick we could potentially "fix" our WR position for the future pulling in a guy with his athleticism. I wouldn't go higher than a third though.
Quote: you think a guy thats only played one year of ball, been arrested and failed multiple drug tests, skipped on his new team because he was broke " cheap" in the second round?
some of yall are quite literally insane....
all ya talk about is how players need to prove it.....how slow progression to success isn't good enough.
then the solution is to draft a single year player with character concerns based solely on measurables? in the second round?
thats quite a gamble....even as the article states, he'll not likely contribute this year due to missed time. so whats the hurry to burn the pick? ya cant stash him on the PS, so you gotta activate him to catch splinters? great....flippin....idea! lets hamper the team and waste a roster spot on a guy thats not gonna play.
wow.....desperation. most of you reek of it.
I agree with you 100%.
If we want him.. throw in a bid for the 5th round and keep it moving.
A day after former TCU running back Ed Wesley demonstrated enough athleticism to potentially earn a late round selection in Thursday's supplemental draft, he was upstaged by Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon, who, by clocking in at 4.52 seconds and catching every pass thrown to him, may have legitimized the hype building around his NFL potential.
Gordon, who officially measured in at 6-3 (1/8) and 224 pounds, performed in front of representatives of 21 teams, according to Adam Caplan of Sirius XM NFL Radio. His workout, which was originally scheduled to take place at Rice University, was moved to the practice bubble at the Houston Texans' facility due to weather concerns.
Shortly after Gordon's workout, results of his time in the 40-yard dash spread over the internet. Caplan reported Gordon's time in this event at 4.52 seconds. A league source on hand for the workout told me he had clocked Gordon at 4.55 seconds on his first attempt but that Gordon pulled his left quadriceps on his second try. Because of the injury he did not participate in the three cone or shuttle drills. He did, however, register a 36" vertical jump, as well as a 10'1 broad jump, as well as run routes and catches passes from former Ole Miss quarterback Jevan Snead.
Gordon was "a little stiff" in his route-running, according to the league source but caught the ball cleanly throughout the workout, demonstrating the ability to snatch the ball out of the air as well as track it over his shoulder.
As I noted in the blog post yesterday detailing Wesley's Pro Day, it is important to keep in mind that the athletes prepping for the supplemental draft haven't had the same amount of time to prepare for their Pro Day workouts as most players competing at the Scouting Combine or on-campus workouts prior to the April draft.
Still, when comparing Gordon's numbers to receivers tested in Indianapolis this past year, it is clear that he's a unique athlete well worthy of strong consideration as early as the second to third round.
Giving Gordon the benefit of the doubt and using the 4.52 second time in the 40-yard dash as the barometer, the former Baylor wideout would have tied with former Penn State receiver Derek Moye for the 11th fastest time recorded by a pass-catcher timed in Indianapolis. More impressively, consider that of those timed faster than Gordon, none were lighter than his 224 pounds.
Gordon's vertical also would have tied him for 11th among receivers tested in Indianapolis this past year. His broad jump (10'1 or 121") would have tied him for ninth and is comparable to the results posted by Michael Floyd (122") and his former teammate at Baylor Kendall Wright (121"), each of whom were selected in the first round. Justin Blackmon, who was the first receiver selected in April, did not participate in the broad jump at the Combine but registered a 10'4 broad jump during his March 9 Pro Day.
"[Gordon] is a talented athlete," the league source said. "You could see that on the tape. But this workout helped. There is no question he has the physical skills to play at this level."
While Gordon clearly has the size and athleticism scouts are looking for, teams will have to weigh in the fact that he hasn't played football since 2010 and has a checkered past.
Gordon looked like a future star at Baylor just a few years ago. While Wright led the team in both catches (78) and receiving yards (952), Gordon finished with the same number of touchdowns (tied for team lead with seven) in much more limited opportunities (42 catches for 714 yards). Gordon only caught one pass (for seven yards) in 2009.
Gordon was reportedly arrested in October of 2010 for marijuana possession and told John McClain of the Houston Chronicle that he failed a drug test during his time at Baylor. He elected to transfer to the University of Utah after being indefinitely suspended by head coach Art Briles but wasn't able to play this past season due to the NCAA's requirement that players sit out one year if transferring to another FBS program. Rather than play for the Utes this season he elected to make himself available to the supplemental draft with eligility remaining.
As the league source noted, there is no denying Gordon's physical upside. However, there is enough concern that Gordon may lack the dedication necessary to ever take full advantage of his natural skill set. As such, the interviews he had with teams prior and following his Pro Day workout will wind up being much more important to determining his final grade than his performance in drills Tuesday.
With enough uncertainly around the situation, Gordon could "slip" to the fourth round or later despite the talent to warrant consideration earlier.
Wesley shared the backfield duties last season with Waymon James and Matthew Tucker after his best season in 2010 with a team-best 1,078 rushing yards, earning First Team All-MWC honors. He leaves the college ranks with 2,442 career rushing yards and 21 touchdowns, averaging 10.9 yards per punt return on special teams.
Wesley (5-9, 200) has good vision, anticipation and decisive movements as a runner, but isn't overly elusive. He has battled the injury bug over his career, especially to his shoulder after missing three games last season. Wesley isn't guaranteed to be selected in the Supplemental Draft, but he was considered a mid-to-late round draft pick after his junior season.
Other eligible prospects for the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft:
CB Quaylon Ewing, Boise State
Ewing was dismissed from the Boise State football team in January 2012 because he "did not live up to the standards of the program," according to a team spokesman. He started four games last season as a redshirt sophomore cornerback, but struggled with inconsistencies in coverage and maturity issues off of the field.
FB Adam Harris
Harris started his career at Cornell, but desired to play for a FBS-level program and walked-on at Syracuse in 2009. He started 21 games the past two seasons before team doctors shut him down because of multiple concussions. Harris had one final season of eligibility left, but he recently left the program.
OT Adrian Haughton
Haughton started 17 straight games as a freshman and sophomore, but was dismissed from the program in the summer of 2010. Head coach Paul Rhoads cited a "violation of team rules" as the reason for his dismissal, but didn't give any details. The Florida-native most recently played for the Orlando Predators in the AFL.
LB Larry Lumpkin
This past March, Carson-Newman announced Lumpkin wouldn't be returning for his senior season due to academics. He earned First Team All-South Atlantic honors last season, finishing with 94 tackles and 10.5 tackles for loss. Lumpkin, who has experience at defensive end, inside and outside linebacker, began his career at Alabama A&M.
DE Montez Robinson
Robinson was a high-profile recruit out of high school in Indiana, choosing Georgia over LSU, Alabama and Auburn. At 6-5 and 240-pounds, he played only one season at Georgia as a true freshman back-up in 2009, recording five tackles and a pair of sacks. He was suspended in December 2009 and dismissed from the team in April 2010 because of multiple arrests, requiring jail time.
WR Houston Tuminello
Tuminello recorded 10 catches as a sophomore starter for Louisiana Tech in 2009, but left the team in October that season due to personal reasons. He spent the next few seasons between FCS-program Stephen F. Austin and Division III's McMurray, but wasn't productive on the field at either school.
Quote: PFT says he ran a 4.52 today at his Pro Day. Browns, Bills, Cowboys, Eagles, and Texans had scouts there.
Isn't that a little slower than anticipated?
They said he was going to run 4.4s. Granted low 4.5s are a blink away from higher 4.4ers, but its enough to knock him down a peg.
I maintain...4th rounder.
Well, Choco made some good sense even if he was rather abusive to a few fellow dawgs. Dudes hadn't played in 2 years, had a drug issue, apparently has an attitude issue...
That adds up to trouble. character issues not withstanding. If the FO talks to the guy, feels his troubles are behind him (keep in mind his agent is going to coach him on what to say), then maybe a 3rd is worth it.
But the more I think about it, it's a gamble.
A 3rd gamble isn't exactly a franchise killer. so if they really feel his troubles are behind him, make a move in the 3rd,, if you get him, great,, if not, you still have the pick.
I agree. I would be very surprised if any team offered up a 3rd. I think there will be a few 4ths and a slew of 5ths. I can't see any team giving up a 3rd on a player that not only hasn't played much, but has so much baggage.
Quote: you think a guy thats only played one year of ball, been arrested and failed multiple drug tests, skipped on his new team because he was broke " cheap" in the second round?
some of yall are quite literally insane....
all ya talk about is how players need to prove it.....how slow progression to success isn't good enough.
then the solution is to draft a single year player with character concerns based solely on measurables? in the second round?
thats quite a gamble....even as the article states, he'll not likely contribute this year due to missed time. so whats the hurry to burn the pick? ya cant stash him on the PS, so you gotta activate him to catch splinters? great....flippin....idea! lets hamper the team and waste a roster spot on a guy thats not gonna play.
wow.....desperation. most of you reek of it.
No, it isn't cheap. I think you misread the comment. I was commenting on people saying offer a 5th rounder. Every comment I have read indicates he won't go lower than the 3rd.
As Steve indicated, the 4.52 probably takes the 2nd rounder out of the mix. If he ran a 4.35, you bet it would take the 2nd rounder.
All along I understood the guy would be behind by missing mini camps, etc. That was never a surprise to me. That isn't a concern.
Here is my take on the personal stuff. Most....ok, at least many of the good players in this league do stupid stuff. Partly a "jock" mentality and partly a product of not being that far removed from your teens. Maybe he grows out of it, maybe he doesn't, you just never know with these guys, but if you are going to limit your search to players who have Nada on their record, you are letting a lot of good talent go.
Reek?? Well, maybe, but trust me here Hoss, it's not out of desperation. Frustration, possibly. Desperation?? No, that just isn't my make up.
Quote: I agree. I would be very surprised if any team offered up a 3rd. I think there will be a few 4ths and a slew of 5ths. I can't see any team giving up a 3rd on a player that not only hasn't played much, but has so much baggage.
Perhaps, but if Heckert gets a sniff of Washington planning on bidding for Gordon (due to prodding by RGIII) it would not surprise me one bit if Heckert throws a 2nd out there.
Damned if they lose another bidding war with the Skins!
Ok, I bet 7222 that he would get a 2nd round offer. That was before he posted a 4.5 40 and then pulled a hammy. This guy now reminds me more of Devier Posey who went in the 3rd round. I now agree with the majority that he will get a 3rd round offer and it won't be the Browns. Honestly, this guy doesn't seem like a football player like Hines Ward. He seems like a diva looking to cash in on a few measurables. I would offer a 3rd or 4th but ultimately he won't be a Brown.
Josh Gordon tries to put marijuana suspension behind him Posted by Darin Gantt on July 11, 2012, 8:04 AM EDT 103606-650-366 AP
By nature, if you’re in the Supplemental Draft, there’s a problem.
For Josh Gordon, the star of this year’s slow-time selection meeting, the issue was self-inflicted, and the hardest part was watching his Baylor teammates have one of the best seasons in school history without him.
A failed marijuana test led to the suspension that cost Gordon his 2011 campaign, which saw the Bears win 10 games and the Alamo Bowl while quarterback Robert Griffin III won the Heisman.
“Leaving Baylor was the hardest thing,” Gordon told John McClain of the Houston Chronicle. “I’d get up in the morning, turn on ESPN, and there they were, some of my best friends doing such great things. They did exactly what we believed we were capable of doing when I was there.
“Everything I thought I had, everything in front of me, just went down the drain. I didn’t want to stop chasing my dream, so I transferred, sat out the season and worked as hard as I could to start from scratch.”
Gordon’s sophomore season was a productive one, but he made headlines when he and a teammate were arrested after falling asleep in a Taco Bell drive-in line. Police found marijuana in the car, and defensive end Willie Jefferson was kicked off the team when it was his second violation. Gordon was charged with misdemeanor possession, though it was later dropped.
That wasn’t enough of a lesson for Gordon, however, as he was suspended indefinitely last July for what he admitted was a failed marijuana test.
“It was against school policy, of course, and I was [suspended] in the summer,” Gordon said. “I’ve definitely put that part of my life behind me. I don’t plan to ever go back there. It was a difficult time, but I learned from it, and I’ve moved on.”
Weighing whether he’s changed or not is the challenge for the teams investigating him. Scouts do skeleton work on underclassmen during the regular year, leaving them all playing catch-up for prospects when they enter the Supplemental Draft.
“They [scouts] want to know what kind of character guy I am,” Gordon said. “They want to know if I can be trusted. They want to know if I’m going to be a guy that always has off-the-field issues. I want to make it clear I’m not going to be that guy.
“I know how much heartache it caused my family, how much strain it put on me and my family. I don’t plan to ever go back there again.”
Whether NFL teams trust that word will largely determine how high he’s chosen, and what kind of chance he gets to back the words up. web page
Quote: Gordon’s sophomore season was a productive one, but he made headlines when he and a teammate were arrested after falling asleep in a Taco Bell drive-in line.
Overnight, Gordon goes from obscurity to top prize of supplemental draft By Jason La Canfora | CBS Sports NFL Insider July 11, 2012http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19561276/overnight-gordon-goes-from-obscurity-to-top-prize-of-supplemental-draft
Only a few days ago, Josh Gordon was a relative unknown, a talented but raw college football player who hadn't played a down since 2010. Now, suddenly, he is the focus of the entire NFL world, in one of the rare dormant periods in the constant pro football news cycle.
Gordon, who left Baylor after being suspended indefinitely and transferred to Utah but never played a game for the Utes, is likely the only player who will be selected Thursday in the supplemental draft, and, given his collection of size, speed and gifts, he just might go as high as the second round.
That would be a rarity in and of itself, and interested teams have been scrambling for a week or so to gather film, information and background on the prospect after the league announced he was eligible for the draft only several days ago.
So, just that quickly, he has gone from possible 2013 draft prospect to focal point for organizations in the here and now. Trust me, there are many teams very interested, including the new employer of his old college quarterback, Robert Griffin III, who is longing for a reunion with his former teammate.
Around 20 teams were represented at Gordon's workout at the Texans facility on Tuesday, where he ran in the low 4.5s in the 40-yard dash -- plenty respectable given his height and weight (6-foot-3, 224 pounds). He has limited college experience and will need help learning routes and fine-tuning his precision, but some scouts I've talked to have thrown around possible comparisons to A.J. Green. They believe, had Gordon stayed at Baylor after a marijuana-related arrest and played with RG3, he would have had top-10 potential.
For Gordon, that's heady stuff.
"The last 10 days have definitely been really unbelievable," he said at the end of a long Tuesday.
You see, the last time he played competitive football, he was a sophomore, and RG3 was deep in his learning curve and not the Heisman-winning, second-overall selection we see before us now. But other than a few teams negotiating with their franchise-tagged players, there isn't a lot of action around the league these days.
Thus, no shortage of pro or college scouting directors showed up to watch Gordon up close, most of them for the first time, and many of those teams scheduled individual meetings with him either Monday or Tuesday. Several sources called the workout impressive, with Gordon pressing on with drills despite pulling his left quad during his second attempt at the 40.
"I definitely didn't perform as good as I would have liked," Gordon said, "and looking back on it, maybe I should have stretched a little more, but I was glad I got through the receiving drills and I worked as hard as I could."
Some talent evaluators I spoke with had a third- or fourth-round grade on him, but others believe the amount of interest, the potential of the prospect, and the fairly widespread need at his position will propel him to get selected by the second round (a year ago, Terrelle Pryor had a fifth-round grade from many teams -- and went in the third). Among those interested, according to team and league sources, are the Browns, Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles, Colts, Dolphins, Panthers, Saints, Chiefs and 49ers.
The Redskins are particularly intriguing because of the RG3 connection and their lust for more weapons for him. Team sources said Griffin has been actively lobbying the front office and owner Dan Snyder for Gordon. Snyder will do whatever he can for his star players; he has a history of listening to them and the Redskins have employed the supplemental draft in the past. Griffin has also remained in contact with Gordon, and while the Redskins already lack a first-round pick from 2013 in the trade with St. Louis to acquire RG3, sacrificing another high 2013 pick to acquire a potential impact player now is hardly out of character.
The Browns are also high on him, according to a team source, and have spent a lot of time and energy around the Baylor program in recent years. They know it well. They worked hard on a trade for RG3 before losing out to Washington. They drafted Baylor tackle Phil Taylor in the first round in 2011. They coveted Baylor receiver Kendall Wright this year; they planned to take him with their second pick in the first round and quarterback Brandon Weeden in the second round. But when Wright was picked sooner, Cleveland ended up taking Weeden at No. 22.
Gordon has better physical gifts than Wright, and few teams are as needy for help in the passing game as the Browns.
The Cowboys are notable as well, as they have been aware of the Houston native for a while, sources said. Also consider that Jerry Jones is never afraid of being bold or going out on a limb for something he believes in. So pouncing on Gordon early wouldn't be a shock. (Doesn't something like this, particularly when always picking late in rounds, seem like something Bill Belichick might explore, too?)
The supplemental draft order will be determined Thursday morning utilizing a weighted lottery in which teams that won six games or fewer last season have the best odds of getting the highest selection order (the Colts, for instance, would have 32 balls in the pot via having the first overall draft pick back in April). Once an order for those teams is established, then the remaining non-playoff teams from the 2011 season have a lottery for the next set of places, and finally a lottery for the 12 playoff teams rounds out the order. Teams submit ahead of time the highest round in which they would be willing to part with a 2013 pick for an available player in the supplemental draft.
A process that takes months leading to the annual spring draft gets condensed into mere days for young men like Gordon. There's not as much prep time, but as he noted, the process isn't as dragged out. So in some ways, this is less mentally and physically taxing as the series of meetings and workouts leading up to the entry draft.
Gordon is just excited to be able to reconnect with the game he loves, and the prospect of playing football anywhere has him overjoyed. Sure, getting back together with RG3 would be special.
"I actually just got off the phone with him before I spoke to you," Gordon said late Tuesday night. "That would be pretty crazy. It would be, if not the best thing for me, then certainly at least a dream come true. But I guess the odds of that are 1 in 32."
But he's anything but picky about the situation.
"I'm more than grateful just to have the opportunity to play for anyone who would pick me, or if that didn't work out, anyone who would sign me as [an undrafted] free agent," Gordon said. "I'm more than grateful for a chance."
Gordon is polite and modest, but he won't have to worry about free agency. He's a day away from embarking on a pro career.
Gordon left Baylor, a Baptist school, following his suspension in July 2011, but then had to sit out a year after transferring to Utah, which meant paying for his own schooling and training. He was pursuing a hardship transfer waiver to return home and enroll at the University of Houston for the 2012 season, but would have likely needed online courses to qualify, and might have had to miss games through delays even if he were able to get in the school.
He wavered through late June. "I really didn't make up my mind until two days before the deadline to apply [to the supplemental draft]," he said, but given all the uncertainty of his eligibility and coming from a humble background and with the NFL beckoning now, the decision was made.
Gordon, who caught 42 passes for 714 yards and seven touchdowns as a sophomore, has learned from his mistakes, and matured from his football and collegiate odyssey. In a league of second chances, he more than merits his first look, and players with far greater transgressions have been given repeated opportunities. (As an indication that marijuana is not a part of his life, Gordon recently passed a drug test, the results of which he distributed to NFL teams on Tuesday according to a club official who attended his workout).
In this day and age, with the proliferation of the passing game, bypass size and speed at your own peril (remember how much Atlanta parted with to move up into Cleveland's spot and take Julio Jones in 2011). All the movement at the top of the 2012 draft showed the wheeling-and-dealing mentality that has taken hold with so much cost certainty on draft picks in the new CBA, and the opportunity to secure a potential first-round talent, now, at a discount, will loom in the minds of many a front office.
I fully expect multiple teams to put in selections for him, quite possibly in the second round. The results of Tuesday morning's lottery could end up being pivotal for a certain franchise, and the future development of a raw but extremely talented receiver.
Quote: Among those interested, according to team and league sources, are the Browns, Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles, Colts, Dolphins, Panthers, Saints, Chiefs and 49ers.
So 5 of the 10 teams listed all have the chance to win the top pick (6 wins or fewer in 2011) of round priority. i wonder if they get the same pick in every round. I also expect the Bills would be up there. If the Cowboys, Eagles, Saints, Chiefs, or 49ers want him, they'll have to put in a 2nd.
As it goes on, they'll have to go with a first. I think we will offer a 2nd rounder. We have a need and the latest press is we are 32 in the power rankings.
Press coverage does matter and does influence how people, companies, teams react.
He will be behind, no doubt, but if we can't catch him up by game 4, we have a lame staff.
You assign somebody to him and you drill it in.
That is if we like him, and depends on the official draft order. He won't go lower than the 3rd and I wouldn't doubt some team who plans to draft late will offer a 2nd in the hopes of getting him above a slew of teams who will offer up a 3rd rounder.
Quote: As it goes on, they'll have to go with a first. I think we will offer a 2nd rounder. We have a need and the latest press is we are 32 in the power rankings.
Press coverage does matter and does influence how people, companies, teams react.
He will be behind, no doubt, but if we can't catch him up by game 4, we have a lame staff.
You assign somebody to him and you drill it in.
That is if we like him, and depends on the official draft order. He won't go lower than the 3rd and I wouldn't doubt some team who plans to draft late will offer a 2nd in the hopes of getting him above a slew of teams who will offer up a 3rd rounder.
I agree we'll make a play for him, but given the way the Sup draft is set up,, doesn't mean we'll get him.. I'm still thinking 4th however.
This kid has some size and showed some skills, but one year of college, two years away, possible drug issue, definite maturity issue. I don't see many teams thinking above 4th. But hell, that's just a guess. it only takes one GM to believe the kid made the turn in his life and he's gone.
I understand the hype machine can influence things.....as far as order...we will be in the high group, and I think most of the high group who wants him will offer a 3rd. My worry(if we want him) is a team out of the next grouping of teams will offer a 2nd.
Yep....I want a receiver, and 6'4", 225 lbs players who run 4.5 40's are pretty rare. That 4.52 forty is less than some might have thought or hoped, but that is still plenty fast....it isn't slow by any means.
I haven't followed this supplemental draft at all -- so take the words with a grain of salt.
I do know that every supplemental draft there is a prospect where the media/fans put rank him at least 2 rounds higher than any team. I remember discussions of Manuel Wright with our 2nd, and Ahmad Brooks in the first.
Robert Griffin III wants Washington Redskins to land former Baylor teammate Josh Gordon; Cleveland Browns, familiar with Baylor, very interested Published: Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 5:32 PM Updated: Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 5:37 PM Mike Peticca, The Plain Dealer By Mike Peticca, The Plain Dealer josh-gordon.jpgAssociated PressJosh Gordon caught 42 passes for 714 yards and seven touchdowns for Baylor in 2010, but missed the 2011 season after being suspended following a marijuana-related arrest.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The NFL knows how to stay in the news.
Now, in the short lull between "Organized Team Activities" and the start of training camps late this month, the league has orchestrated the elevation of former Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon from relative unknown to perceived future superstar.
Gordon is the focal point of Thursday's supplemental draft.
Plain Dealer Browns beat writer Mary Kay Cabot writes in her report about Gordon and the supplemental draft:
The draft is almost like a silent auction, with teams submitting bids based on the pick they’re willing to sacrifice in the 2013 draft. The order within rounds is determined by how teams fared last season.
Only the team that acquires Gordon will surrender the draft pick that it bids.
Gordon caught one pass at Baylor in 2009. Then, in 2010, he emerged behind Kendall Wright as quarterback Robert Griffin III's second favorite receiver, catching 42 passes for 714 yards and seven touchdowns.
Gordon didn't play last season. Following a marijuana arrest, he was suspended by Baylor coach Art Briles. Gordon transferred to Utah, where he sat out the season because of NCAA transfer rules. Now, instead of playing for Utah this season, Gordon has declared for the supplemental draft.
Griffin was selected by the Washington Redskins with the second overall pick in April's draft. Wright, by the way, was also picked in the first round, at No. 20 overall by the Tennessee Titans.
Jason La Canfora writes for CBSSports.com about Gordon becoming the top player available in the supplemental draft, and about the teams -- including the Redskins and Cleveland Browns -- that seem to be most interested in him:
Among those interested, according to team and league sources, are the Browns, Redskins, Cowboys, Eagles, Colts, Dolphins, Panthers, Saints, Chiefs and 49ers.
The Redskins are particularly intriguing because of the RG3 connection and their lust for more weapons for him. Team sources said Griffin has been actively lobbying the front office and owner Dan Snyder for Gordon. Snyder will do whatever he can for his star players; he has a history of listening to them and the Redskins have employed the supplemental draft in the past. Griffin has also remained in contact with Gordon, and while the Redskins already lack a first-round pick from 2013 in the trade with St. Louis to acquire RG3, sacrificing another high 2013 pick to acquire a potential impact player now is hardly out of character.
The Browns are also high on him, according to a team source, and have spent a lot of time and energy around the Baylor program in recent years. They know it well. They worked hard on a trade for RG3 before losing out to Washington. They drafted Baylor tackle Phil Taylor in the first round in 2011. They coveted Baylor receiver Kendall Wright this year; they planned to take him with their second pick in the first round and quarterback Brandon Weeden in the second round. But when Wright was picked sooner, Cleveland ended up taking Weeden at No. 22.
Gordon has better physical gifts than Wright, and few teams are as needy for help in the passing game as the Browns.
Should the Browns bid a draft pick, and for what round, to try to acquire Gordon?
Posted by Mike Florio on July 11, 2012, 6:02 PM EDT
We asked the question on Tuesday, and a pair of unnamed league sources (via Albert Breer of NFL Network) answered it on Wednesday.
Is former Baylor receiver Josh Gordon being overhyped?
Breer says that an unnamed executive and an unnamed scout used the same word to describe Gordon: “Overhyped.” They also said he would have gone somewhere between round five and round seven in the April draft, if he’d been part of the process then.
Of course, part of the process now is the same as part of the process then. Teams that want to see someone burn a higher pick than they should will talk a guy up. Teams that want to see the guy still there at the round where they may try to get him will say things like, “He’s overhyped.”
The wild-card for many teams is the owner. If he becomes smitten with a player, he may apply pressure to the front office to make a move prematurely.
And so no one ever tells the whole truth about the draft. Actually, there’s an even greater incentive to misdirect competitors in the supplemental draft, since it removes a pick from the process for the following April, pushing the pool of available players another step closer to the awaiting arms of the other 31 teams.
His skill set doesn't go sixth round, but look at some of the guys that were drafted in the fifth round or later in the April draft. Criner, Toon, Childs, McNutt, and Streeter are all guys that are talented and plummeted. Gordon has more red flags than most guys and a similar skill set. I wouldn't take him before the fifth round, which is where he deserves to go based on his measurables, production, and character.
Doesn't this guy sound a lot like Carlton Mitchell coming out of USF?
Mitchell - 6'3", 215lbs, 10 5/8" hands, 4.49 speed, 122" broad jump Final Year of College Football - 40 catches, 706 yards, 4 TDs
Gordon - 6'3", 220lbs, 10" hands, 4.52 speed, 121" broad jump Final Year of College Football - 42 catches, 714 yards, 7 TDs
Mitchell was drafted in the sixth round and to my knowledge didn't have the character red flags that Gordon does.
I guess I'm missing something? I've never seen the kid play but this appears to be one of those perfect hype storms where the kid is literally the only thing going on football wise right now with the NFL.
You're probably right. In the end i don't really care if we draft him or not.
I agree about the hype and how it can be blown out of proportion. Supply and demand drives that, and here we have short supply and apparently some demand.
The odd thing is teams wouldn't be trying to drive up the cost. At least I wouldn't think so.
As I said at the beginning, all of what I am saying is if he checks out in the minds of the guys who went to see him and talk to him. If they feel he is worth a 2nd rounder, then bid the 2nd rounder. It makes no sense to grade the guy a 2nd or 3rd round talent, then offer a 5th. Why bother? That is all I am advocating here. I am not on this guys bandwagon and am not saying we should. As with many, I've never seen the guy and even if I had, would my opinion really matter?? It's all about the opinion of Heck and Homie.
Quote: I doubt he would have gone that low, so some team is trying to drop the bids.
His skill set doesn't go 6th round.
Just saying.
From what I've read, on skills alone, you are probably right. The problem with this kid is he has some baggage. now it could be nothing but youthful stupidity.. we've all done dumb stuff at that age.. if the FO's of teams feels that's all it is. he'll go higher..
I hope we land him. I see a very intriguing skill set. You just can't teach size, speed and hands combination but you can teach him how to run his routes. Kid has the potential to be a terrific counterpart to Little. I still think we can get him with a 4th but heckert has never been afraid to go get his man. He went up and got Richardson, took Weeden earlier than projected, took Hughes and Benjamin in the 3rd and 4th when they probably were 6th rounders at best.
I would not be surprised to see a 3rd given up today even though i think 4th.
Quote: I would not be surprised to see a 3rd given up today even though i think 4th.
Just read that NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah think's the Browns will get him for a 3rd round selection. That would be OK with me. We have to do SOMETHING to try to improve at wideout.
Just read that NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah think's the Browns will get him for a 3rd round selection. That would be OK with me. We have to do SOMETHING to try to improve at wideout.
We are doing something ... The same thing we have been doing for years and that is waiting for our current group to have a breakout year. </purple>
Quote: So "doing something" means wasting picks on players? Glad you're not the GM.
LOL... who peed in your Wheaties this morning?
I wouldn't consider spending a THIRD round pick on a guy with this skill set a wasted pick. However, if we can't get past the obvious red flags for his off-field issues, then I wouldn't expect us to offer a pick for him at all. I'd be fine with that as well.
We'll see what happens shortly after 1:00pm this afternoon...
No I can't get past his lack of production and lack of time on the field. Might as well just start signing every big tall WR that can run fast regardless of football skills.
Lets just start wasting valuable draft picks on guys that NO ONE on this board outside of Deep Threat as heard of before this hype machine started bc one unnamed scout source said he may have, could have, might etc... had AJ Green LIKE potential had he stayed in college and played with RG3. Excuse me if this sounds like Bill Cowher's house in strongsville scenario set up by his agent. No thanks on this unproven kid with character concerns. You are guys are getting desperate and impatient.
Quote: For Josh Gordon, the star of this year’s slow-time selection meeting, the issue was self-inflicted, and the hardest part was watching his Baylor teammates have one of the best seasons in school history without him.
This doesn't look real good... Now if it read the team fell apart with out you. Then imo it would look like you have a great ability.
Seems to me .. this guy didn't do that much to help his team...that's just how I read into it.
Quote: You are guys are getting desperate and impatient.
Impatient, absolutely. Desperate...
Again... IF (and that's a big "IF") the FO thinks this kid can put his immature ways behind him AND he has the kind of skills worthy of a 3rd rounder (or better), I'm OK with them picking him up today with a 3rd or 4th round pick. If those two conditions aren't met, then we don't move on him. Pretty basic stuff.
If you can't grasp this simple concept, then I guess we should all be glad YOU'RE not the GM.
Quote: Doesn't this guy sound a lot like Carlton Mitchell coming out of USF?
Mitchell - 6'3", 215lbs, 10 5/8" hands, 4.49 speed, 122" broad jump Final Year of College Football - 40 catches, 706 yards, 4 TDs
Gordon - 6'3", 220lbs, 10" hands, 4.52 speed, 121" broad jump Final Year of College Football - 42 catches, 714 yards, 7 TDs
Mitchell was drafted in the sixth round and to my knowledge didn't have the character red flags that Gordon does.
I guess I'm missing something? I've never seen the kid play but this appears to be one of those perfect hype storms where the kid is literally the only thing going on football wise right now with the NFL.
Feels too much like overhype to me.
What I believe most are missing is that there isn't any other thing going on in the NFL to talk about accept this kid. What....AP's arrest?
So with him being the only headline? Overhyped......
The only thing we'd watch would be a computer spitting out a result. Many teams won't even bother submitting a bid on any of these players. The teams know the draft order by now, but that's about it ...... and frankly, that doesn't make a huge difference.
I bet one team offers a 5th, a few others a 6th and then not much else happens. There always seems to be a lot of talk in the early rounds for these supplemental guys but somehow all the GMs offer late picks, if at all.
it wouldn't surprise me if the two GMs that want the guy spend most of the morning working out a side deal on who can get the player and then offering the lowest pick possible to make the appearance that it was a true bid. Meh...who cares.
right on.....i am pretty happy right now. I think he has the tools to be a stud, now lets get him into camp and find out just what he has in him! GO BROWNS!!!
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon was taken by the Cleveland Browns in the second round of the NFL's Supplemental Draft this afternoon.
According to reports, 21 of the 32 NFL teams, including the Browns, attended Gordon's workout Tuesday and saw him run a 4.52 in the 40-yard dash, catch every pass thrown to him and record a 36-inch vertical leap.
Gordon reportedly pulled a left quad muscle on his second 40, but finished the workout.
Gordon comes with baggage. He was suspended indefinitely by Baylor coach Art Briles prior to the 2011 season following a marijuana arrest, and transferred to Utah, where he sat out the season. Rather than play for the Utes this season, he declared for the supplemental draft for financial reasons, according to reports.
The question entering today was what are the Browns were willing to part with for Gordon.
The Browns have a recent history with drafting a talented receiver forced to sit out a year because of a behavioral issue. Greg Little was the team's leading receiver in his rookie season in 2011 after being picked in the second round. He did, however, run a similar offense at North Carolina.
The draft is almost like a silent auction, with teams submitting bids based on the pick they are willing to sacrifice in the 2013 draft. The order within rounds is determined by how teams fared last season.
Nfldraftscout.com describes Gordon as "a long-striding runner with the build-up speed and fluidity to make plays after the catch.''
He showed enough in his one full season in 2010 to impress pro scouts and coaches. That season, he caught 42 passes for 714 yards and seven TDs. The Browns had access to some inside insight into Gordon from Baylor alum Phil Taylor and from their close associate Brian Norwood, who is Baylor's assistant head coach and father of Browns receiver Jordan Norwood.
Seven other players declared for the s supplemental draft, but none with the potential star power of Gordon. The last time the Browns selected a player in the special draft was Bernie Kosar in 1985.
I guess Heckertt and Holmgren really wanted this guy. LOL Don't think I would have burned a 2nd on the kid, but I'm happy to see the FO isn't content with the WRs we have and are being aggressive in trying to upgrade the unit.
Man, I really hope this guy works out! I will admit to be a little nervous about this but so far I am O.K. Other than main question of "can he play at this level?" is if he goes out and has a good year do we get to look forward to off season contract drama in the near future. From what I heard on the radio yesterday it sounded like he could be a "me" first type of guy.
Mini camp and OTA's are just that.....mini. I don't see how that's going to really impact his development. If he's into camp on time, there is plenty of time to get him trained.
Heck, a 2nd rounder should be able to pick up a system faster than a whole year. Aren't we expecting more out of every other draft pick above the 4th round already? Why lower the standards to 12+ months for Gordon?
I don't know a thing about this guy, so I hope H+H+S do. We shall see.
Quote: so its Norwood vs. Mitchell vs. Cooper for the last roster spot.
I see Mitchell with zero chance of making this team. He's another big receiver, and they have plenty of those, They seem to want a mix of big, strong receivers, and smaller, quick, waterbug types.
Quote: so its Norwood vs. Mitchell vs. Cooper for the last roster spot.
Cooper can at least be put on the practice squad. The other two guys will just be cut loose. I also wouldn't be surprised if Massaquoi was traded after training camp.
Quote: so its Norwood vs. Mitchell vs. Cooper for the last roster spot.
I see Mitchell with zero chance of making this team. He's another big receiver, and they have plenty of those, They seem to want a mix of big, strong receivers, and smaller, quick, waterbug types.
I'm tempted to argue that MoMass might be on that very same strip of thin ice.
I wouldn't be shocked if we cut a wide receiver before camp even starts. Use his roster spot to get a guy at a position where we don't have as many bodies.
Now, after the Gordon pick, we have 12 wide receivers on the roster:
Quote: Mary Kay Cabot, for what it's worth, predicted that the Browns would be very aggressive in going after Gordon, as they really liked him.
Looks like she was right about that.
Looks like it, and FWIW, Grossi has also said some extremely eye opening things this morning on the kid.
Personally, I'm done with all the getting excited about this guy and that guy. I'll get excited when they get on the field and look more better then guys i played against in high school.
Possibly. I seriously doubt though that the NFL scouts and FOs are reading up all the hype and thinking how badly they have to get this guy. I'm sure they have looked at whatever tape they have, attended his workout, interviewed him, talked to people who coached for and against him..... just like any other draft prospect...
Obviously the front office was impressed enough and even though the kid comes with baggage, physically, he is the type of WR the Browns need playing for them in the AFC North.
Why wait a year to use one of our high draft picks to fill a need at WR, when we can acquire one now. Gordon will have this year to knock the rust off and refine his game.
I'm about to add something that might upset my fellow dawgs...Cribbs might be on the trading block as the Browns try to recoup next years draft pick they just used.
I'm not advocating the Browns trade Cribbs...just saying it is a possibility, given the over abundance of receivers the Browns have.
I wonder how long a pulled quad takes to heal. He didnt complete all his drills.
I think they took him higher then they wanted to but Washington was in the mix with RG3 ties.
So Heckert uses 2 second round picks on WRs that didnt play the year before, this kid must have some good hands.
I think Heckerts job should be on the line if they lose out on next years 2nd pick and its a high selection. WRs must be a big need. I would have liked to see Burress as a FA.
I wonder how much input Holmgren has? He supposed to sit back and let everyone do their job.
color me skeptical. basically the same scouting report as Carlton Mitchell (40rec last year in school, almost identical combine numbers) except he had a year off school, some off-field red flags.
I am hopeful in that the Browns FO has hit on character concern players from Baylor in the past (Phil Taylor) and I am sure they did extensive HW on this guy. The one thing that no scouting report seems to mention are how good his hands are. If they are good, then this can be a good pick.
Browns use 2013 second-round pick to select ex-Baylor WR Josh Gordon Jul 12, 2012 -- 1:45pm Tony Grossi
Showing unusual aggressiveness, the Browns forfeited their second-round pick in 2013 to select former Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon in today’s NFL supplemental draft.
Gordon, 6-3 1/8 and 224 pounds, was suspended indefinitely by Baylor in 2010 for failing a test for marijuana. He transferred to Utah and sat out the 2011 season in anticipation of completing his college eligibility in 2012. But financial pressures at home reportedly made him change his mind and he opted for the supplemental draft two days before the deadline.
The Browns got a break when they won the No. 2 spot in the draft order -- through a weighted lottery. The Buffalo Bills were No. 1.
The Browns spent a day with Gordon last week at their headquarters, a league source told ESPNCleveland.com. They had him take a physical and spent “a long time” discussing his issues. GM Tom Heckert came away convinced the issues were behind Gordon.
The Browns “discovered” Gordon on game tape while scouting Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III and receiver Kendall Wright – two players they tried to acquire this spring, only to lose them to Washington and Tennessee, respectively.
The Browns had two scouts at Gordon’s pro day workout on Tuesday. Gordon timed the 40-yard dash in 4.52 before pulling a quadriceps muscle. The Browns, and most other teams, considered the time impressive considering Gordon’s physical dimensions. Nobody as heavy as him ran a better 40 at the NFL combine.
Because he hasn’t played since 2010, and because he has missed the entire offseason of camps, Gordon will need time to work his way in. But a Browns source said they fully expect him to help them as a rookie.
Eventually, Gordon has the physical tools, and the hands, to be their new No. 1 receiver.
A league source said Gordon would have been a top 10 selection in 2013 in he had stayed healthy and played in 2012.
And, we could have a pretty imposing group of WRs, size-wise. Little has lost some weight, but he's still a strong guy not afraid of contact. I believe Gordon is like that, too.
I have no problem with a little "punch you in the mouth" group of WRs.
Its a joke around our house. If I bring home some ice cream, she'll ask "how did you know I was in the mood for ice cream?", and I answer "I'm physic". You kinda have to be there ...
Obviously the front office was impressed enough and even though the kid comes with baggage, physically, he is the type of WR the Browns need playing for them in the AFC North.
Why wait a year to use one of our high draft picks to fill a need at WR, when we can acquire one now. Gordon will have this year to knock the rust off and refine his game.
I'm about to add something that might upset my fellow dawgs...Cribbs might be on the trading block as the Browns try to recoup next years draft pick they just used.
I'm not advocating the Browns trade Cribbs...just saying it is a possibility, given the over abundance of receivers the Browns have.
Possibly. Or they wise up and put Cribbs back to where he shines...ST expert. I can't fathom many teams would give up too much for Cribss, to be completely honest. No way they recoup a 2nd round pick. He's not a polished WR by any means and if his real value is on ST, then the Browns should keep him there.
Man, usually once they're one of us, I am fine and content.
I'm getting angrier as time passes. This is feeling more & more like too much of a big reach. I feel like I should be happy for his talent and the fact that H&H are trying, but no, still not feeling to happy . . .
Quote: A league source said Gordon would have been a top 10 selection in 2013 in he had stayed healthy and played in 2012.
I mean, you never know, but I hadn't seen that anywhere.
Walter has Woods, Allen, and Hunter in the top16 (and another 3 WR in the 2nd round - none of them Gordon)
CBS has Woods, Allen and Hunter as 1st rounders as well.
That's what I meant earlier when I said Grossi had some eye openers this morning. He had a few more that I can't find in print anywhere, but suffice to say, It appears his Julio Jones man-crush may be over.
Cleveland Browns take Baylor WR Josh Gordon in 2nd round By Rob Rang | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com
The Cleveland Browns drafted Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon in the second round of the 2012 supplemental draft.
The Browns made their aggressive move despite the fact that they "won" the second pick of each round in the 2012 supplemental draft and therefore could have beaten out every team other than the Buffalo Bills, who were awarded the first pick as part of the "lottery" the NFL uses in determing the supplemental draft order each July.
The 6-3, 224 pound Gordon certainly boasts the size and athleticism to warrant such a lofty grade but teams generally are loathe to give up such high picks in the supplemental draft. The last time a player was selected as high as the second round in the supplemental draft came in 2003 when the Houston Texans selected former Georgia Tech running back Tony Hollings. No one player has been selected in the first round since former Duke quarterback Dave Brown in 1992.
Cleveland had demonstrated a great deal of interest in Gordon prior to Thursday's draft. They selected defensive tackle Phil Taylor out of Baylor in the first round in 2011, strongly pursued a trade up to take Robert Griffin III this year and publicly acknowledged that they would have taken Kendall Wright with the No. 22 overall pick this past April had he not been selected by the Tennessee Titans two picks earlier.
The Browns will lose their second round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft with this move.
It will be very interesting to see what impact Gordon, who only has one true season of college football under his belt, will have for the Browns in 2012 ... as well as the caliber of talent available when Cleveland would have selected in the second round next April.
The reaction by others throughout the league following the Browns selection was equal parts surprise and negative.
Said one high-ranking NFL executive speaking on the condition of anonymity, "I was stunned that [the Browns] took [Gordon] that high. What a roll of the dice... and in the second round? That's the No. 34 overall pick!"
Another showed his reaction to the news via a text: "Desperate move. Wow. Staff is on the hot seat trying to make something happen..."
Former league executive Tony Softli, who last served as the Vice President of player personnel for the St. Louis Rams and previously as the director of college scouting for the Carolina Panthers, had this to say about the selection on Twitter: "Cleveland Browns make a pivotal decision in 2012 Supplemental Draft that could have a negative rippling effect on front office and coaches"
The complete selection order determined by the weighted lottery system used by the NFL was as follows:
Buffalo Cleveland Tampa Bay Miami St. Louis Minnesota Washington Jacksonville Indianapolis Carolina Philadelphia San Diego Tennessee Oakland Arizona Kansas City Seattle Chicago New York Jets Dallas San Francisco Houston Pittsburgh Atlanta Cincinnati Baltimore New England New Orleans Green Bay Denver Detroit New York Giants
The supplemental draft is conducted entirely via email between the league and its 32 teams.
first scouting report that I found that talked about 'how' he caught the ball and how his hands were. he's very positive on Gordon at least:
Quote:
Forced to leave the Utah program due to financial constraints. Attempted to transfer to Houston for the 2012 season but was told he would have to sit out the season due to NCAA regulations.
Positives: Tall, fluid pass catcher with tremendous upside potential. Plays with great balance as well as body control. Has large, soft hands and easily makes the reception in stride. Consistent hand catcher and extends to make the reception away from his frame.
Mitchell putting up these numbers as a senior and Gordon posting similar numbers in essentially his first year playing college ball must count for something, right?
Well, this looks like a gigantic overdraft, an early 2nd for a knuckelhead like Gordon? Cmon
We're officially in win now mode thanks to Holmgren's stupid offseason comments when he pretty much put the entire staff on the hot seat if they don't somehow win 7+ games
Quote: Man, usually once they're one of us, I am fine and content.
I'm getting angrier as time passes. This is feeling more & more like too much of a big reach. I feel like I should be happy for his talent and the fact that H&H are trying, but no, still not feeling to happy . . .
Fingers crossed . . .
I certainly can understand why you feel that way. the kid does come with some baggage. But here's the thing. Heckert knew all that.. so did our scouts and coach and Pres.. He spent the day in Berea. You would think that these guys are smart enough to be able to flesh out the truth about where his heads at now. Wouldn't surprise me to find out they had a Schrink talk to him a little during his visit.
Measurables are there.. he's got the physical tools. as a rookie he showed some skills.
But projecting where he'll be right now after 2 years away from the game? wow. like I said, I understand your concerns.
Quote: Plus, I read that the FO talked with Jordan Norwoods father who is/was on the staff at Baylor.
well, that is a bit awkward. so, Mr. Norwood. we are considering drafting a WR you coached who could potentially put a roster squeeze on WR for your son. What do you think about him?
(yes, I realize they are competing for different positions with Norwood the slot and Gordon likely a SE, but 1 more WR means 1 less open slot)
Quote: Mitchell putting up these numbers as a senior and Gordon posting similar numbers in essentially his first year playing college ball must count for something, right?
Well this is certainly interesting. I hope he works out but supplemental drafts are a crap shoot at best. Keep him away from the weed and maybe he'll be a decent receiver. He's certainly big enough.
Browns take Gordon in Supplemental Draft Posted 40 minutes ago
The Cleveland Browns selected wide receiver Josh Gordon in the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft, the team announced Thursday afternoon.
The Cleveland Browns today selected wide receiver Josh Gordon in the second round of the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft. As a result the team will forgo its second round choice during the 2013 NFL Draft. Gordon was a two-year letterman at Baylor University (2009-10), where he totaled 43 career receptions for 721 yards and seven touchdowns. As a sophomore in 2010, he caught 42 passes for 714 yards and a team-high seven touchdowns. His yardage total ranked second on the squad, while his 17.0-yard-average-per reception was first. Gordon is the first player selected by the Browns in the Supplemental Draft since the team selected Bernie Kosar with the top pick in 1985.
“We are excited to add Josh Gordon to our football team,” said Browns Head Coach Pat Shurmur. “I feel as though he possesses the skill and ability to be an outstanding player in this league. He is an excellent addition to our 2012 rookie class, and I am looking forward to working with him and our entire team in a couple of weeks.”
JOSH GORDON Wide Receiver Height: 6-3 Weight: 225 College: Baylor Birthdate: April 13, 1991 How Acquired: D2 (Sup.) – ‘12 Year with Browns: Rookie Year in NFL: Rookie
Career Transactions: Originally acquired by Cleveland with a second round selection in the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft.
College: Attended the University of Utah in 2011 and sat out the season due to NCAA transfer rules… Two-year letterman at Baylor University (2009-10)… Appeared in 22 games with five starts… Totaled 43 career receptions for 721 yards and seven touchdowns… Led the Bears with seven receiving touchdowns and a 17.0 yards-per-catch average in 2010, while notching 42 receptions for 714 yards… Had a 94-yard touchdown reception from Robert Griffin III against Kansas, which was the longest reception in Baylor history and the fourth-longest in NCAA Division I-A in 2010… Appeared in nine games as a reserve and recorded one catch for seven yards as a true freshman in 2009… Majored in general studies.
Personal: Native of Houston, Texas, where he attended Lamar High School… Also played basketball and ran track… Was a high school and college teammate of defensive end Tracy Robertson who signed with the Houston Texans as an undrafted free agent this year.
Heckert is like the honey badger of value-based drafting.
He don't care.
The man is decisive, I'll give him that. He makes a plan, sets the price, and he sticks with his evaluation. Let's hope he knows what he's doing. Years from now, we can talk about how TJ Ward, T-Richardson, Weeden, Schwartz, Hughes, and Gordon were all great values where we took them. Right now, from the draftnik point of view, they were all reaches.
Quote: Browns use 2013 second-round pick to select ex-Baylor WR Josh Gordon Jul 12, 2012 -- 1:45pm Tony Grossi
By Tony Grossi
Showing unusual aggressiveness, the Browns forfeited their second-round pick in 2013 to select former Baylor wide receiver Josh Gordon in today’s NFL supplemental draft.
Gordon, 6-3 1/8 and 224 pounds, was suspended indefinitely by Baylor in for failing a test for marijuana. He transferred to Utah and sat out the 2011 season in anticipation of completing his college eligibility in 2012. *But financial pressures at home reportedly made him change his mind and he opted for the supplemental draft two days before the deadline.
The Browns spent a whole day with Gordon last week at their headquarters, a league source told ESPNCleveland.com. They had him take a physical and spent “a long time” discussing his issues. GM Tom Heckert came away convinced the issues were behind Gordon.
Before bidding on Gordon, the Browns had to sweat out the draft order, which was determined by a weighted lottery just 15 minutes before the draft at 1 p.m. They had to compete with the nine other teams that won six or fewer games last year.
The Browns luckily won the No. 2 pick in the order. Buffalo was No. 1. **According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, no other team submitted a bid in the second round. Several league sources predicted before the draft that Gordon would be selected in the third round.
The Redskins, who have become the Browns’ nemesis in outbidding them previously for Robert Griffin III, Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan, drew the No. 7 position. Griffin reportedly lobbied his new team to take Gordon. They shared one season together at Baylor in 2010, when Gordon had 42 catches for 714 yards and seven touchdowns.
The Browns “discovered” Gordon on game tape while scouting Griffin III and receiver Kendall Wright during and after the 2011 college season. Gordon is bigger and faster than Wright, whom the Browns considered taking at No. 22 this year. ***Tennessee swooped in and took Wright at No. 20. The Browns then drafted quarterback Brandon Weeden two picks later.
They also might have noticed Gordon on tape the year before when they scouted defensive tackle Phil Taylor, their first-round pick in the 2011 draft.
The Browns had two scouts at Gordon’s pro day workout on Tuesday. Gordon timed the 40-yard dash in 4.52 before pulling a quadriceps muscle. The Browns, and most other teams, considered the time impressive considering Gordon’s physical dimensions. Nobody as heavy as him ran a better 40 at the NFL combine.
Because he hasn’t played since 2010, and because he has missed the entire offseason of camps, Gordon will need time to work his way in. But a Browns source said they fully expect him to help them as a rookie.
Eventually, Gordon has the physical tools, and the hands, to be their new No. 1 receiver.
*- Financial pressures are a lot different than the "quitting the team" that was being put around regarding his leaving Utah. As was posted somewhere above, he wasn't on scholarship at Utah, I think by NCAA regulations.
**- This doesn't bother me. If they thought he was a good player they wanted to go and get, there's not a whole lot of difference between a second and a third. Is there a difference? Yes. But if you look at the players available from #20 - #80 in this past draft, the gap was not huge. I'm sure Heckert was bidding against teams he thought might put a pick in at the "end" of the second round, despite getting the good lottery draw.
***- They didn't "swoop" at all. They had the number 20 pick. It seemed obvious that the teams picking at 16, 17, 19, 20, 21, and 22 all would pick a WR early, so it should be no shocker that Wright (the third WR drafted) was taken at 20.
Quote: Its a joke around our house. If I bring home some ice cream, she'll ask "how did you know I was in the mood for ice cream?", and I answer "I'm physic". You kinda have to be there ...
[purple]I've been a HUGE fan of this guy for a long time. Just saw a few of his highlights yesterday. I mean I've been following this guy for almost a day now![/purple]
In all seriousness our WR corps was the worst in the NFL and we couldn't see second worst on the horizon. If this guy can develop into a true threat that means we have two threats on our roster now. Which is decent. And maybe we have Benjamin who may scare some teams into keeping one safety further than 10 yards from the LOS.
Little, Sheard and Taylor all had some off the field issues. Heckert also passed on guys that he obviously liked in Nick Fairley and Justin Blackmon. I think he has shown to have a good nose for BS.
I watched the kid in an interview this morning and he seemed pretty genuine. Watching his Baylor buddies in a bowl game really seemed to have hit home with him. Also smoking pot in college umm it aint that big of a deal. Finding a kid that didnt try pot would be much harder than finding one that did.
I think Norwood may be the big winner with adding this kid. Benjamin blah he cant catch a cold but Norwood runs really good underneath stuff and might be our wes welker type.
Quote: My only problem in picking up a guy with off the field problems, is motivation to do well..
You put a rookie on the Browns vs. a rookie on the Giants... which one will want to succeed more over time?
I think you can't instill a competitive gene in to someone. The overwhelming talent (even on the worst NFL teams) is enough to motivate anyone with a pulse.
These are the best football players in the world. Regardless of Gordon's natural gifts, imagine stepping in to practice and working against Joe Haden? Or running routes with Greg Little, who is just as physically imposing? How about stepping in to the weight room and watching Trent Richardson squat a house? As a competitor, if those things don't motivate you, the team and city are inconsequential.
Off the field problems don't always equate to a lack of motivation. In many cases, it can do the opposite. Gordon knows he's been given a second chance. Not only given a second chance but paired with Richardson and Weeden, two other high draft picks. He's been gifted an opportunity to break in with a young offense, on a team that lacks weapons at the WR position and in to an organization that has a strong community around it. It's best case scenario for someone like him.
It was a gamble but I think a calculated one. He has a ton of talent and comes across as being a very humble, well put together young man. Gordon strikes me as someone who learned his lesson, not someone who's acting like he learned his lesson. I'm sure when others hear him at his press conference, they will feel the same.
On Thursday, Cleveland Browns general manager Tom Heckert talked with the Cleveland media about selecting former Baylor University wide receiver Josh Gordon in the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft.
The Cleveland Browns added depth and size to their wide receiver corps with the selection of former Baylor University wideout Josh Gordon in the second round of Thursday’s 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft
Gordon is a 6-foot-3, 225-pound wide receiver that ran a sub-4.6 second 40-yard dash during his recent Pro Day workout. However, he has not played since 2010 due to a suspension and transfer from Baylor to the University of Utah.
“It’s something that we really did our homework on,” Browns general manager Tom Heckert said of Gordon’s suspension in a conference call with the Cleveland media Thursday. “We brought the kid in here and I talked to a zillion guys, both at Baylor and Utah, and to be honest, I couldn’t find anyone to say one bad thing about the kid. I really enjoyed meeting with him. It’s something that’s out here. We felt good enough that he’s going to be a positive influence on our team.”
Gordon will be added to a Browns rookie class which already features quarterback Brandon Weeden, running back Trent Richardson and fellow wide receiver Travis Benjamin. By drafting Gordon, the Browns are continuing a process of building the offense, much like they did in 2010 and 2011 with the defense.
The first and second-round picks in 2010 and 2011 were on the defensive side of the ball. First, it was cornerback Joe Haden and safety T.J. Ward in 2010. Then, tackle Phil Taylor and end Jabaal Sheard were added to the line in 2011.
“We made a conscious effort in the last two drafts to make our defense better,” Heckert said. “From a stat perspective and in our mind, we think our defense got a lot better in those two years. Now, we’ve got to load it up on the offense. They’re young, but we think we’ve gotten a lot better on offense in one draft and add Josh into the mix. We think we’ve gotten a lot better in the last few months.”
Gordon spent two years at Baylor, where he caught 43 passes for 721 yards and seven touchdowns. During his sophomore season with the Bears, Gordon caught 42 passes for 714 yards and a team-best seven touchdowns. He ranked second on the team in total yardage and finished with a 17.0 yards-per-reception average.
By selecting Gordon Thursday, the Browns will not have their second-round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.
“He’s a guy we obviously targeted and felt good about and we’re happy we had the chance to get him,” Heckert said. “I don’t know if it’s risky. That’s kind of where we thought he was as a player. We thought he’s a guy that could come in and be an eventual starter for us and make plays for us. Anytime you draft a guy, there’s always some risk involved, but we think we got a good football player.
“He can run, has got huge hands and long arms. He’s an impressive-looking kid, but there were some concerns about him. I drilled him pretty hard when I was with him and he didn’t back down. He told me everything I thought I needed to hear from him. He promised he was going to be a guy that we were going to love having in Cleveland. He seemed pretty fired up about being a Brown. When he left, he said he hoped we were the team that picked him.”
In their history, the Browns have now taken eight players in the Supplemental Draft.
In 1984, the team selected running back Kevin Mack (Clemson), linebacker Mike Johnson (Virginia Tech), tackle Tommy Robison (Texas A&M), linebacker Doug West (UCLA), quarterback John Bond (Mississippi State), and wide receiver/kick returner Gerald “Ice Cube” McNeil (Baylor) in the Supplemental Draft.
A year later, the Browns traded four draft picks, including first-rounders in both 1985 and 1986, to the Buffalo Bills for the right to draft quarterback Bernie Kosar from the University of Miami. Kosar grew up outside of Youngstown, in nearby Boardman, Ohio.
After Kosar and until Gordon, the Browns had not used a pick in the Supplemental Draft.
“Most years, there’s not a player of Josh’s caliber in the Supplemental Draft, so you don’t hear about it very much, but we look at it as a positive,” Heckert said. “We’re getting a really good football player and we’re getting him a year early. If he plays like we think he’s going to play, obviously, it will be a good decision.
On Thursday, Cleveland Browns general manager Tom Heckert talked with the Cleveland media about selecting former Baylor University wide receiver Josh Gordon in the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft.
The Cleveland Browns added depth and size to their wide receiver corps with the selection of former Baylor University wideout Josh Gordon in the second round of Thursday’s 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft
Gordon is a 6-foot-3, 225-pound wide receiver that ran a sub-4.6 second 40-yard dash during his recent Pro Day workout. However, he has not played since 2010 due to a suspension and transfer from Baylor to the University of Utah.
“It’s something that we really did our homework on,” Browns general manager Tom Heckert said of Gordon’s suspension in a conference call with the Cleveland media Thursday. “We brought the kid in here and I talked to a zillion guys, both at Baylor and Utah, and to be honest, I couldn’t find anyone to say one bad thing about the kid. I really enjoyed meeting with him. It’s something that’s out here. We felt good enough that he’s going to be a positive influence on our team.”
Gordon will be added to a Browns rookie class which already features quarterback Brandon Weeden, running back Trent Richardson and fellow wide receiver Travis Benjamin. By drafting Gordon, the Browns are continuing a process of building the offense, much like they did in 2010 and 2011 with the defense.
The first and second-round picks in 2010 and 2011 were on the defensive side of the ball. First, it was cornerback Joe Haden and safety T.J. Ward in 2010. Then, tackle Phil Taylor and end Jabaal Sheard were added to the line in 2011.
“We made a conscious effort in the last two drafts to make our defense better,” Heckert said. “From a stat perspective and in our mind, we think our defense got a lot better in those two years. Now, we’ve got to load it up on the offense. They’re young, but we think we’ve gotten a lot better on offense in one draft and add Josh into the mix. We think we’ve gotten a lot better in the last few months.”
Gordon spent two years at Baylor, where he caught 43 passes for 721 yards and seven touchdowns. During his sophomore season with the Bears, Gordon caught 42 passes for 714 yards and a team-best seven touchdowns. He ranked second on the team in total yardage and finished with a 17.0 yards-per-reception average.
By selecting Gordon Thursday, the Browns will not have their second-round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.
“He’s a guy we obviously targeted and felt good about and we’re happy we had the chance to get him,” Heckert said. “I don’t know if it’s risky. That’s kind of where we thought he was as a player. We thought he’s a guy that could come in and be an eventual starter for us and make plays for us. Anytime you draft a guy, there’s always some risk involved, but we think we got a good football player.
“He can run, has got huge hands and long arms. He’s an impressive-looking kid, but there were some concerns about him. I drilled him pretty hard when I was with him and he didn’t back down. He told me everything I thought I needed to hear from him. He promised he was going to be a guy that we were going to love having in Cleveland. He seemed pretty fired up about being a Brown. When he left, he said he hoped we were the team that picked him.”
In their history, the Browns have now taken eight players in the Supplemental Draft.
In 1984, the team selected running back Kevin Mack (Clemson), linebacker Mike Johnson (Virginia Tech), tackle Tommy Robison (Texas A&M), linebacker Doug West (UCLA), quarterback John Bond (Mississippi State), and wide receiver/kick returner Gerald “Ice Cube” McNeil (Baylor) in the Supplemental Draft.
A year later, the Browns traded four draft picks, including first-rounders in both 1985 and 1986, to the Buffalo Bills for the right to draft quarterback Bernie Kosar from the University of Miami. Kosar grew up outside of Youngstown, in nearby Boardman, Ohio.
After Kosar and until Gordon, the Browns had not used a pick in the Supplemental Draft.
“Most years, there’s not a player of Josh’s caliber in the Supplemental Draft, so you don’t hear about it very much, but we look at it as a positive,” Heckert said. “We’re getting a really good football player and we’re getting him a year early. If he plays like we think he’s going to play, obviously, it will be a good decision.”
The National Football League held a draft of United States Football League and Canadian Football League players on June 5, 1984. In an attempt to head off a bidding war in its own ranks for USFL and CFL players. NFL teams chose 84 players from 224 available during the three-round selection meeting. The draft was for players who would have been eligible for the regular 1984 NFL draft, but who had already signed a contract with either a team from the USFL or CFL prior to the regular 1984 draft.
I'd say the Browns did pretty well that draft. Only really questionable move was drafting Ice Cube ahead of Gary Clark. Not that Ice Cube wasn't good.
First round
Pick # NFL Team Player Position Pro Team College 1 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Steve Young QB Los Angeles Express BYU 2 Houston Oilers Mike Rozier RB Pittsburgh Maulers Nebraska 3 New York Giants Gary Zimmerman G Los Angeles Express Oregon 4 Philadelphia Eagles Reggie White DE Memphis Showboats Tennessee 5 Kansas City Chiefs Mark Adickes OT Los Angeles Express Baylor 6 San Diego Chargers Lee Williams DE Los Angeles Express Bethune-Cookman 7 Cincinnati Bengals Wayne Peace QB Tampa Bay Bandits Florida 8 Indianapolis Colts Paul Bergmann TE Jacksonville Bulls UCLA 9 Atlanta Falcons Joey Jones WR Birmingham Stallions Alabama 10 New York Jets Ken Hobart QB Denver Gold Idaho 11 Cleveland Browns(from Chicago Bears) Kevin Mack RB Los Angeles Express Clemson 12 Green Bay Packers Buford Jordan RB New Orleans Breakers McNeese State 13 Minnesota Vikings Allanda Smith CB Los Angeles Express TCU 14 Buffalo Bills Dwight Drane DB Los Angeles Express Oklahoma 15 New Orleans Saints Vaughan Johnson LB Jacksonville Bulls North Carolina State 16 New England Patriots Ricky Sanders WR Houston Gamblers Southwest Texas State 17 St. Louis Cardinals Mike Ruether C Los Angeles Express Texas 18 Cleveland Browns Mike Johnson LB Philadelphia Stars Virginia Tech 19 Denver Broncos Freddie Gilbert DE New Jersey Generals Georgia 20 Detroit Lions Alphonso Williams WR Oklahoma Outlaws Nevada-Reno 21 Los Angeles Rams William Fuller DE Philadelphia Stars North Carolina 22 Seattle Seahawks Gordon Hudson TE Los Angeles Express BYU 23 Pittsburgh Steelers Duane Gunn WR Los Angeles Express Indiana 24 San Francisco 49ers Derrick Crawford WR Memphis Showboats Memphis State 25 Dallas Cowboys Todd Fowler TE-RB Houston Gamblers Stephen F. Austin 26 Miami Dolphins Danny Knight WR New Jersey Generals Mississippi State 27 Washington Redskins Tony Zendejas K Los Angeles Express Nevada-Reno 28 Los Angeles Raiders Christopher Woods WR Edmonton Eskimos CFL Auburn
For those of you more than a couple years younger than me...
Quote: Gerald McNeil (born March 27, 1962 in Frankfurt, Germany) is a former professional American football player. He was a wide receiver who often returned punts and kickoffs. McNeil's small stature of 5 ft 7 in (1.70 m) and 145 lb (65.8 kg) made him difficult to grab hold of and tackle and led to his nickname "The Ice Cube". McNeil attended Baylor University, where he set several reception records.
I doubt we see another NFL player under 150# make a 53-man roster. I think Wansley was probably close, but he'd always get cut before the season started.
For comparison's sake, Sproles is listed as 5'6", 190#.
Quote: Mitchell putting up these numbers as a senior and Gordon posting similar numbers in essentially his first year playing college ball must count for something, right?
Mitchell was a junior when he declared.
You are correct. Mitchell came out as a junior and Gordon did play the year before, got in quite a few games breifly and only had 1 catch... he did play special teams.
I think the most telling factor behind the similarities between Mitchell's numbers and Gordon's numbers being so similar is that Mitchell was clearly the #1 go-to target on the South Florida team... and Gordon was the #2 target behind Kendall Wright, who is pretty good. Gordon had 240 fewer yards than Wright but the same number of touchdowns.. the two accounted for 14 of the teams 22 passing TDs......
South Florida, in Mitchell's 700+ yard season also threw for 1000 yards less than Baylor did in Gordon's 700+ yard season.. There are a lot of variables... far too many to say "The numbers were the same, therefore their NFL production will be the same."
J/C.....was away for the afternoon on a rainy day....I see a 2nd rounder was used and it was us.
I like it. Big kid, fast enough, and it looks to be good hands. The talk the last few months was how our receivers sucked.
At least we have a FO willing to be proactive.
I don't know if the guy will pan out or not, but I have a feeling he will. He has the measurable's, he has been humbled in past....and I think he means it when he was talking about never going back there.
Now, it's get him up to speed. Stick Nolan Cromwell on him. Nolan was a heck of a player. Played QB and safety, so he understands route running.
I don't think the kid is as far behind as some think. He can be coached up....at least to the point he breaks the line-up and catches 40 or so balls this year.
Intresting reading all these responces on the selection of Gordon...WR with a second round,
Browns didnt sit on thier hands,there werent scared to do something to try to improve our team, adding a WR a postions 99.9% of Browns fans cried about the lack of selectons on draft day April wasnt that long ago, remember the cring, the comments of the FO dosent DO anything...Well they did and who care about it beng a second round, alot can happen between now & April 2013, maybe our second isnt a top 30 something pick maybe its a late 40 or even a 50 something pick,
I feel better knowing the browns did something...right or wrong only time will tell, but thats with all our picks, evey pick in the draft is time will tell, I'd be more upset if we did nothing....Can we emagion all the cring if we didnt pick him or waited and somebody else would have selected him in the late 2nd, oh man all the cring of our FO dosnt do anything to improve the WR position, well i'm one glad our front office took a chance to get a wr with some up side, only time will tell if this move pays off, some moves do other moves dont.
Greaat job FO, Well done Heckart......doing nothing you never get better, taking a chanc atleast you give yourself a chance.
Quote: Its a joke around our house. If I bring home some ice cream, she'll ask "how did you know I was in the mood for ice cream?", and I answer "I'm physic". You kinda have to be there ...
Anyhoo, yes we give up next years 2nd rounder.
I have STP
I have ESPn
Mourg - I have never smoked pot nor even had a cigarette.
I projected 6th round. Thought a 4th would be needed to make sure that we got him. Guess I was way wrong. It would be really interesting to know what (if any) the other bids were. Even if they don't get associated with teams. No way I can see the NFL releasing that kind of information.
They don't release it, but we are sharp enough to know other 2nd rounders where offered. The press is too. There were several 2nd round bids because I'd bet the ranch there were a BUNCH of 3rd round bids.....like all that didn't bid 2nd round.
This was always a 2nd round bid if you were serious about picking the guy up. Buffalo had the first pick, we had the second. I am just glad they are pretty good at receiver with some up and coming players and didn't bid a 2nd as well..
Love the pick up - is a 2nd a bit high? maybe.... but if this guy was as good as Wright is (as I've read when he played at Baylor) then I'm 100% fine with the pick... I don't know a ton about the kid, but for the most part like what I've read.... I'm hoping, as others have stated, that our FO can evaluate talent... I do think the draft this year feels like we've reached all over the place, but I like the fact that Heckert trusts his evaluation skills and goes and gets the player he wants... This year should be pretty exciting. I just hope we can get everyone signed and in camp on time!
Quote: They don't release it, but we are sharp enough to know other 2nd rounders where offered. The press is too. There were several 2nd round bids because I'd bet the ranch there were a BUNCH of 3rd round bids.....like all that didn't bid 2nd round.
This was always a 2nd round bid if you were serious about picking the guy up. Buffalo had the first pick, we had the second. I am just glad they are pretty good at receiver with some up and coming players and didn't bid a 2nd as well..
I gotta admit, you hit the head on the nail this time.. you called this
I like the makeup of this team although the youth and inexperience will definitely show throughout the year.
This is a big powerful offensive line that has a mean streak and we just added the RT that completely owned all those stud OLB's and DE's at the senior bowl while playing RT. We also added the Miller kid and have some depth for a change as well. They fit this scheme well.
Mr. Ordinary Trent Richardson has the 3 qualities I most admire in a RB. Balance, vision and power, he has other qualities but if you have those 3 good things will always happen.
Weeden is a fantastic pure passer. He may not be able to walk and chew gum but he can stand in one spot and throw as good as anyone you will see. Now can he throw when forced to move off the spot? Can he read a defense while dropping back? lots of questions here but he can sling that rock.
Receivers has completely changed. Little and Gordon are very big, very fast and very physical. Gordon is more of the deep threat and Little is more of the quick slant run after catch guy. Then you have Norwood who is terrific in running the underneath routes. Benjamin and his 4.2 speed is a major plus and it would be even greater if he could actually catch the ball.
TE is solid. You have a little bit of everything. Everyone questions this group but these guys have some skills when not being Colted.
I see enough talent to produce a little excitement and hope. I would love to be able to go to camp this year. It is a very exciting time. Who knows what will happen, this is a passing league and there just arent that many QBs worth a damn. I am not a Weeden fan but I think he has a legit chance to be the #2 QB in this division by season end. Big reason for that is that Dalton and Flacco suck.
I like your optimism. I agree with your assessment of Richardson and the improved WR corps as of today. However, we'll be looking to draft another QB in Round 1 by 2014 ... JMO of course
With most hyped up receivers come hyped up egos. Barring that, I hope he can perform like a end 2of pick. Overall, I too commend Heckert for putting his reputation on the line for this kid. I'm happy we are at least looking like we are trying to fix our problems. I really think this offseason will make us a competitive force in 2014.
Just a video on his character, during an interview. I'm no psychologist, but from just his tone and word selection, he seems that he understands what he did, and does not want to go through that again.
Just a video on his character, during an interview. I'm no psychologist, but from just his tone and word selection, he seems that he understands what he did, and does not want to go through that again.
I'm sure he doesn't especially after seeing how Baylor did last year and how hyped up his former teammates were, especially one that was below him on the depth chart. I'm sure it's upsetting to him that he wasn''t able to take part in that and knowing if he had kept his nose clean, he would have and may have been the top talked about WR in this draft. I'm sure this was a learning experience for him and that he grew from it. If not, then he can be kicked to the curb.
I'm know I'm getting in late to the conversation but first reaction was ... Reach, and are we getting desperate this offseason?
Heckert is really starting to confuse me. He kept talking about how our wr's are so improved... Yada yada yada. Doesn't go after any FA WR and then jumps and reachs for another project WR.
I'm tired of seeing u guys talk about this guy or that guys measurables. I want a player, A football player. We got that at rb now, and even if Gordon pays off, he would be our first at WR that can play. Everybody knows we have no wr's at all. H&H can blow all the smoke they want.... But this is a desperation move, caused by their own ego's. Alot is riding on this year for them. The reach for weeden, the trade up for TR.
Bottom line...They had to get somebody for weeden to throw to or it would of made them look completely inept and make Weeden look like a horrible pick. They were very aggressive in the off season but didn't even look at filling the need at WR in free agency. A 2nd rounder is a lot.... A third would of been better.
I still thnk we gotta go WR next year 1st round no matter what. Even if Gordon pays off. Little looks to be in shape and improved, mitchel gone, momass lost cause, Benjamin cnt catch, Cooper possible 3rd/4th WR, Criibbs getn better but also older. We really have no talent hardly at all here.
Quote: so its Norwood vs. Mitchell vs. Cooper for the last roster spot.
Norwood all day long. Can can be a 3rd or 4th receiver on a lot of teams with much better receivers than us.
Gordon seems smart enough to understand that if an athlete shows us love, we love him back. Joe Haden, Josh Cribbs, Boobie Gibson, Kyrie Irving, as examples.
Quote: @JOSH_GORDONXII
#CavsNation just got their newest fan..
@JOSH_GORDONXII
#GoTribe
@JOSH_GORDONXII
I'm loving the #DawgPound already.. Can't wait to touch down in Cleveland and meet the fans..
@JOSH_GORDONXII
@PhilTaylor98 was right, Cleveland has the best fans in the country hands down..#DawgPound #OffTheLeash
Anyone else remember sittin at ol muni stadium waiting for the browns to receive a kickoff or punt while the entire stadium chanted : "cube, cube, CUBE, CUBE, CUBE"!!!!
Heckert probably figured out he was all in with Weeden anyway...might as well burn a 2nd next draft to improve the team since he could be gone by then if the team repeats a 4-5 win season (depending on HOW this scenario was played out I would probably disagree, but the homers already have their pitchforks ready)
and for the record: a future 2nd has the value of an actual 3rd....the value of our pick invested in Gordon was that of a late 2nd/early 3rd...still think it was too much for a boom or bust prospect, but I'll have to trust Heckert on this one...after all I was wrong on Little too
Quote: Going this high in a guy with character concerns and a slow speed, I'm beginning to wonder.
Jerry Rice was slow but his route running was second to none. I don't see that here.
From what I've seen Gordon's 40 time is almost identical to AJ Green's and almost 2/10ths ahead of Jerry Rice. Where is the notion that he's slow coming from?
Yep... 4.52 is PLENTY fast for a guy his size. Reports that he has excellent hands are very encouraging too (given our current WR core couldn't catch a cold last season). I applaud the bold move to bolster a weak group. Here's hoping it pays off.
I only have the CNNSI scouting report and the few Baylor highlight reels to go off of, but the "hands" do seem to be a plus. In these, he always seems to attack the ball with his hands like one is supposed to do (rather than the body-catching that Little often gets caught-up doing).
The only thing about this move that was REALLY surprising to me is the 2nd round pick..... and, quite frankly, my guess is that the ONLY reason we jumped so high is because we really wanted this kid and we were certain enough that someone else would drop a 2nd on him that we had no choice but to jump high or walk away.
I'm glad we jumped high. The kid has big time talent, hands, skills, and measurables. If he only plays as well as Little did last year, this pick is a solid one. I have a feeling we just committed robbery, actually.
Quote: Heckert is really starting to confuse me. He kept talking about how our wr's are so improved... Yada yada yada. Doesn't go after any FA WR and then jumps and reachs for another project WR.
We went after some FA WRs... they went to Washington... we were hoping to get Wright in the first round... we just missed him... to me this is not much of a reach for a guy who probably would not have been there in the 3rd round of this supplemental draft.
Kid showed some great flashes at Baylor.. I just hope he can come in and play.. unlike Little he was allowed to practice with his team all last year, so he just didn't get to do it on game day.
I'm really hope he works out and we can have a couple really solid WRs. I still like Little and Norwood and hoping that MoMass can get out of his funk.
Gordon (6-3, 224) remained drug-free throughout the season and finished strong, catching 42 passes for 714 yards and tying teammate Kendall Wright with a team-high seven touchdowns. But when he returned to the school in June after summer break, he tested positive again for marijuana.
"That was the last straw for them," said Gordon. "We had to part ways that summer."
The farewell broke coach Art Briles' heart, because he loved Gordon as a person and a player.
"It killed me, it really did, because as a coach, I think we're in the kid-saving business," said Briles, who's remained in close contact. "I know Josh's character, I know his heart, I know his mind, I know his soul and it's all good."
Gordon transferred to Utah, but shortly before leaving, his family's apartment caught fire, and they were forced to evacuate. Gordon fled early for Utah, taking his mom's car and his brother with him. His mother stayed behind but had to live in a hotel and drive rental cars.
"It was hard for all of us," said Gordon.
At Utah, Gordon sat out the season but still practiced with the team and submitted to drug tests.
"I was in a rehabilitation program with group counseling, and I saw a psychiatrist, like, three times a week," he said. "I had to report back to the team while I was practicing. But I never tested positive at Utah."
Every Saturday, Gordon watched as Baylor took the college football world by storm and Robert Griffin III made his amazing run toward the Heisman Trophy and toward becoming the No. 2 overall pick in the draft.
"It was hard watching ESPN every day, seeing the whole RG3 phenomenon take place, and I was like, 'Man, I was just there a year ago, this is crazy,' " Gordon said. "I was really happy for them, but it was hard."
After the year, Gordon had a decision to make. His brother couldn't find work, and they struggled to pay their rent. His mom was also back home struggling financially.
"I decided to go back home and try to enroll in the University of Houston," he said. "I wanted to alleviate the stress on my mom and brother."
As recently as June 27, Gordon still was trying to obtain a transfer hardship waiver to get into Houston. "But time was running out," he said. "I had to declare for the supplemental draft by June 29th. I had to make a lot of hard life decisions pretty quickly."
Coach Briles helped him make the decision to go pro.
"Having his belief in me and support helped motivate me," Gordon said. "I thought another year of college and film was what I needed and what everybody expected me to do."
The moment Gordon declared for the draft, the Browns pursued. They had already fallen in love with him during the 2010 season while scouting their 2011 first-round pick, Phil Taylor.
"Cleveland was the only visit I made," said Gordon. "I had a good feeling they were going to draft me, but I was still shocked when they jumped up to the second round."
The cost for the Browns was their second-round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.
Browns General Manager Tom Heckert already had done his homework, talking to Briles, Taylor and Baylor assistant head coach Brian Norwood, the father of Browns receiver Jordan Norwood and a close associate of some in the Browns personnel department.
"I couldn't find anybody to say one bad thing about the kid," said Heckert. "I drilled him pretty hard when I was with him. He didn't back down, and he told me everything that I thought I needed to hear from him."
Gordon said he's not a drinker and never used other drugs.
"There was definitely a pattern there with the two failed tests, but marijuana has never had that strong of a hold on my life," he said. "I'm not an addict, and I shouldn't be treated as such. Being sober is not a struggle for me."
But he knows actions speak louder than words.
"I can tell people until I'm blue in the face, and there will always be naysayers that will say, 'I just don't believe him, I can't trust him.' But I know that I have no intentions or any ambition to try to go back and regress to what I was doing before -- testing positive or just being caught in a negative light."
He viewed fellow rookie receiver Justin Blackmon's recent DUI arrest as a cautionary tale.
"I've definitely learned from this," he said. "It's been a long road, but I'm seeing light at the end tunnel after today. Looking back, it was something that had to happen in order for this to even take place. I promise the Browns won't regret this."
From what I've seen Gordon's 40 time is almost identical to AJ Green's and almost 2/10ths ahead of Jerry Rice. Where is the notion that he's slow coming from?
Justin Blackmon 40 Time: 4.45
Michael Floyd 40 Time: 4.47 (pretty much the exact size of Gordon)
That's a top 20 picks time and size combination.
Stephen Hill 40 Time: 4.36
I just think so many are hungry to get a WR, they are all giddy.
He looks like he's got really big hands and long arms. I would think that;s gotta help in addition to all of the other physical attributes he brings to the table.
I am cautiously hopeful. I'm not expecting him to come in and set the world on fire from day 1 ...... but they might be able to use him in a role similar to the role they used Little in last year ..... which is a lot of quick throws off the LOS, and simple routes to start with.
Someone brought up speed, and wondered how much of a difference it can make. I recall an article where the Browns mentioned that they had lined up Benjamin and another receiver and had them run the same route on opposite sides of the field. Benjamin got almost 5 more yards on his route than the other receiver did at the same time. Benjamin runs a 4.3 vs probably a 4.5 for the other receiver. (and IIRC, it was Cribbs who ran the opposite side route) Now part of that is burst, and part is speed, but never underestimate the value of all out speed on the football field.
Quote: The only thing about this move that was REALLY surprising to me is the 2nd round pick..... and, quite frankly, my guess is that the ONLY reason we jumped so high is because we really wanted this kid and we were certain enough that someone else would drop a 2nd on him that we had no choice but to jump high or walk away.
PFT is saying that the Bills were likely to drop a 3rd rounder on him. They were the only team ahead of us in order, so a 3rd from them would have trumped a 3rd from us. If true (or another team was even 50/50 on dropping a 2nd on him), then we had to use our 2nd to get him.
I'm not sure if it was smart, but I'm more hopeful after reading more on him and seeing that he's a "hands catcher." Also, his reason for going into the supplemental draft ended up being that he couldn't afford to live in Utah and the NCAA ruled on his transfer-without-sititng to Houston case where his family lived in June (and denied it).
if we wanted him to be an eventual starting WR (and that they think he has that ability), it was absolutely the right thing to do to spend a 2nd rounder on him. We would have had to use a 1st or 2nd on a WR next year anyways.
Michael Floyd 40 Time: 4.47 (pretty much the exact size of Gordon)
That's a top 20 picks time and size combination.
Stephen Hill 40 Time: 4.36
I just think so many are hungry to get a WR, they are all giddy.
LOL
So now we are splitting times into 100ths of a second. Justin Blackmon is 7/100ths of a second faster and Floyd is 5/100ths of a second faster.... and you call Gordon slow?
There are reasons they use stop watches and YTown pointed out just how much difference that makes over 40 yards.
You kmow, if any other NFL division rival had picked this guy up with 2 strikes on weed, shuffling to his second school, attempting to shuffle to his third and this 40 time, people would be all over it.
Good point DC....I was thinking the same thing. 1. Good hands 2. Route running. 3. Speed. And in that order. First you must have good hand...if you can't catch it dosnt matter how nice your routes are and how fast you are...your no good. Secondly...if you can't run good routes it dosnt matter how fast you are the average cb will cover you. Speed its very important yet having the 2 while showing adequate speed for the position is the must.
I agree, when you get down into debating hundreds or even a couple tenths of a second, the difference could simply be that one has better track technique getting off the blocks than the other, which is a totally useless skill in football.
Quote: You kmow, if any other NFL division rival had picked this guy up with 2 strikes on weed, shuffling to his second school, attempting to shuffle to his third and this 40 time, people would be all over it.
I would probably make my jokes about the other stuff, but I still would think the speed was irrelevant.
Quote: and for the record: a future 2nd has the value of an actual 3rd
I think that's correct.
Frankly I'm a bit surprised we made the move, with all of the love the FO has thrown the way of our group of WR's.
I'm a happy camper.
If Gordon can become a starter along with Little, then that will also allow us to look at CB (to pair with Haden) in the 1st round of next years Draft.
Quote: Frankly I'm a bit surprised we made the move, with all of the love the FO has thrown the way of our group of WR's.
I'm not at all - they've shown them love publicly... but we went after a couple WR FA and then wanted to draft Wright from Baylor.. it was obvious (to me) that they wanted to upgrade the WR core... I still think we have a couple of guys who can turn into good WRs, but so far we don't have anyone elite... will little or gordon become elite? time will tell... I'll settle for really good right now
Quote: Frankly I'm a bit surprised we made the move, with all of the love the FO has thrown the way of our group of WR's.
I'm not at all - they've shown them love publicly... but we went after a couple WR FA and then wanted to draft Wright from Baylor.. it was obvious (to me) that they wanted to upgrade the WR core... I still think we have a couple of guys who can turn into good WRs, but so far we don't have anyone elite... will little or gordon become elite? time will tell... I'll settle for really good right now
Very true ... actions speak louder then words. I just wasn't going to get my hopes up for Gordon and was pretty silent on the pre (sup) Draft for that reason, but I'm just really happy that we have added Gordon to the mix this year.
QB Weeden, RB Richardson, RT Schwartz (Miller), WR's Gordon and Benjamin all rookies on that side of the ball this year.
That's a pretty ex-stream makeover for one off-season and all came by way of Draft picks too.
Quote: Other side is - most cover guys easily run 4.5's or better.
How often do receivers run 40 yds. - straight - no check at the line, etc?
40 times are way, way overvalued. Football speed isn't valued enough.
I've read where real NFL scouts put much more stock in the shuttle, reaction & vertical drills. The 40 is like 3rd or 4th most important pure stat they're looking at.
Most of our picks this year I don't know from Adam and the vast majority of you don't either. Face it, we're a team that needs to gamble and hit on some numbers and that's what we're doing here. As much as any of us can glean from youtube, online scouting reports and sports columns it's a drop in the bucket compared to the homework the front office does. They have a pretty good track record for picks thus far.
So we needed a receiver, this kid is a gamble but we need to roll some dice and he looks like a classic 50/50 bet which aren't bad odds considering timing and circumstances. I don't think we're going to win a lot of games this year but I think we're going to see a lot of raw talent and fight and hopefully a nice setup for a legitimately competitive playoff team in 2013. If this kid is Little 2.0 without the drops we're a much better offensive team. If he turns into a legit #1, we're well on our way.
Anyone else remember sittin at ol muni stadium waiting for the browns to receive a kickoff or punt while the entire stadium chanted : "cube, cube, CUBE, CUBE, CUBE"!!!!
haha, good memories!
Yes they where, but I always felt like there should be an (*) followed by that years Supplemental Draft, because of all of the talent coming from the USFL.
Anyone else remember sittin at ol muni stadium waiting for the browns to receive a kickoff or punt while the entire stadium chanted : "cube, cube, CUBE, CUBE, CUBE"!!!!
haha, good memories!
Yes they where, but I always felt like there should be an (*) followed by that years Supplemental Draft, because of all of the talent coming from the USFL.
I think there is an *. This was the USFL draft (for all intents and purposes).
Quote: I would probably make my jokes about the other stuff, but I still would think the speed was irrelevant.
So they would just be jokes?
You see, I've witnessed many who have frequented this board to stand strong behind the issue of character for a very long time.
I've seen them throw the red flag when a kid has had an issue with dicipline on their NCAA record. I've seen them throw a red flag when any illegal drug was an issue.
And when a kid gets two strikes and is kicked off of their team, I've seen people down right say they wouldn't want a kid who was willing to gamble millions by making the same mistake not once, but twice.
That those are the exact type of things that show you a kid has no dedication to the game. No dicipline or loyalty to his team mates. That his priorities are out of order and they really aren't worth the gamble unless they're taken late.
Now all of a sudden, it doesn't seem like an issue to anyone on here. Now taking such a product is "smart", "worth it","they're all gambles" and everyone seems willing to bless the very type of athlete that so many, only a few short years ago, wouldn't have wanted anything to do with.
I'm not saying he's a bad kid. I'm not saying he will turn around and make the same mistake again. But for everyone to suddenly think taking the same type of player so many wanted nothing to do with in the past is a good thing, I find more than just a little puzzling.
Not you per say, but it's funny how something that seemed so very important and telling signs supposidly to some, is suddenly a non-issue.
Believe me, I am nervous as hell about this factor ..... not so much that he smoked pot ..... but that he smoked pot several times, knowing that it could get him kicked off of his team.
Now he says that he's stayed away from it, and that he's passed even a surprise drug test, so I hope that's true. It's going to be a concern for several years though, until he proves that he really is over that part of his life. (and even though some people on the boards don't think that it's a big deal, it is a huge deal because it could cause him to be suspended if he decides to smoke it up again)
i hope he's past that point in his life and all of that too. but, I think it's hilarious to consider it a "surprise" drug test.
the kid was going through a personal combine of sorts in preparation for the NFL Supplemental draft as the highest profile guy. he had a history with MJ.
I just know in the past, it usually makes the draft value of a player with such issues drop quite a bit. At least in "most" FO's around the league. They weigh that heavily when slating where a player is to be drafted. And we're not talking a three year WR putting up huge numbers here.
In this case, I really haven't seen it addressed very much here. Actually, little if any to amount to anything.
Kind of like, since it was us that picked him, now suddenly it's a non-issue. We weren't any better a few years ago when this seemed like a big issue to some.
Is it that the lust for a winner here has clouded the thinking of how some so much they just don't care anymore about what we spend on an athlete that was willing to gamble his own future money and draft staus not once, but twice just to smoke some bud? That was willing to hurt his team and college due to his absence on the roster letting his team down that way?
I don't know, but a lot of people have done a 180!
Well Im pretty glad we got this kid. Like others I think he can help the team out this year and even though the dont release the results I wouldnt be shocked at all if other teams also offered up a 2nd round pick.
Maybe this time we will read in the future about what a great move this was instead of reading how some other team got a steal in the 2nd round for years to come knowing we could have had him,
I'm a big character guy...pot can be a problem no doubt.
But Gordon got the best lesson he could have ever gotten with Baylor's explosion this past year. I mean he's sitting on his couch somewhere not playing football and Baylor is just blowing up! RG3 wins the Heisman. Kendall Wright is a mid first rounder. I mean if I'm that guy I'm literally tearing my hair out and kicking myself.
All because he smoked some more weed.
That's a serious wake up call. I think he got the message.
I'm not too worried about him. I could be naive though.
'More than shocked' Josh Gordon vows not to 'let down' Browns for picking him By Will Brinson | Senior NFL Blogger
Everyone was pretty stunned when the Browns decided to use a second-round pick on Josh Gordon during the 2012 NFL Supplemental Draft on Thursday. Even Josh Gordon.
The wideout said that he was "more than shocked" by how early the Browns took him and never thought he'd be taken that high.
"I was more than shocked for sure," Gordon said on FOX 26 Sports in Houston, via Pro Football Talk. "I definitely didn't think that high, but I'm thankful for the opportunity ... I'm definitely in shock. It still probably hasn't hit me yet."
But Gordon also told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer that the faith that the Browns showed in him by using a second-round pick won't go unrequited. The newest Cleveland wideout promised to stay clean and said that he "won't let them down."
"Despite everything I've been through, despite being a kid with a spotty background, the Cleveland Browns stuck their neck out and risked taking me and put their faith and belief in me, and I won't let them down," Gordon said in a phone interview. "I'm grateful, and I know I can't go back to being the person I used to be."
Actually, the Browns would like Gordon to go back to being the person he used to be, as long as it's on the football field. Gordon's a physical freak with size and speed who could become a legitimate playmaker for Cleveland.
But he's also not the first potential-ridden player to enter the NFL, and if you think that the Browns panicked and pulled the trigger on Gordon in the second round, well, you wouldn't be alone. CBSSports.com's Clark Judge wrote just that yesterday, and Ryan Wilson and I discussed the snowball effect from last year's draft on our most recent podcast.
And, of course, we're not alone. Several execs told NFLDraftScout.com's Rob Rang that the pick was a surprise. (To say the least.)
Naturally, if everyone else is shocked by the pick, so is Gordon. It's great that he's going to work hard to prove the Browns decision right, but it also means that he's got a ton to live up to, thanks to the vacuum-like nature of a second-round supplemental pick.
Quote: One thing I didn't think of....he's going to want to be paid like the #34 pick in the draft. I wonder if that becomes a sticking point.
If he holds out he has little hope of helping us much early in the season.
I thought of that as well. I don't think that will be the case, but we would have to look at similar cases to see what sort of precedent has been set.
My feeling is he needs to be paid like a 2nd rounder, but as far as I am concerned he was the last 2nd rounder picked.
We used our number 34, so it won't be that.
Again, history is going to lead the negotiations.....but there isn't a whole lot of history, so it's hard to say, but Gordon can expect what he wants, he isn't getting #34 money.
I just hope all sides agree it needs to happen quickly. Screw the obligatory low-ball offer and screw the pie in the sky demands. Settle on a fair bonus amount, settle on a 4 year contract with fair kickers to make it a good deal for the player and the team.
Gordan's speed. Speed is not an issue for this kid, like Haden he has football speed and not track speed where getting out of your stance is everything and for guys that didnt run track this just aint a natural thing for them. this is especially true for a guys that are big. Stephen Hill is just a freak. Most of Gordon's highlights you see him running away from the DB. That is speed.
off the field stuff. My BS meter didnt go off with this kid like it didnt with both Blackmon and Floyd. Now I missed on Nick Fairley as well, but environment is key. This team seems to have a lot of quality people and they arent afraid to talk to players they see going down the wrong road.
Value. 2nd round is very high value and maybe to high but I can guarantee Heckert was seeing elite level skills in this kid to take him that high. Heckert was acting like wow we got a steal in this kid. That says something. It may say he doesnt know a thing about drafting receivers lol but hey we will know soon enough. Gordon is gonna compete.
Bottom line, we have the most athletic group of receivers we have had since Davis, Morgan and Cutt.
Neither Luck nor Griffin III are signed, so that's probably holding up Richardson. Richardson said something about his deal being almost done, just waiting for the 2 guys ahead of him to finalize theirs. I wouldn't worry about it. Camp doesn't open for another couple of weeks, and I'm sure they'll all be there from day 1. (July 28th)
I doubt very seriously that Weeden misses one second of camp. He wants to be the starter, and the Browns want him to be the starter. Holding out doesn't make that happen.
Kind of surprised about the stance on the contract. I would think the point of negotiation would be whether he'd get 2012 #34 money or 2013 #34 money. I don't really see the basis for saying mid or late second or even third cash for this pick.
On a related note, did the CBA do away with the rookie pool? I don't remember hearing anything about it this year, but if it exists, I'm sure he'd have to fit in.
Quote: I think he saw a gaping hole in the roster. And he made sure he filled it even if he had to overpay.
But I think Momass is junk and if Benjamin can't hold onto a football all the speed in the world means nothing.
We need a guy who is a legit deep threat. And from the highlights I've seen it looks like he fits that bill to a tee.
Kind of exciting!
I don't know if MoMass is junk or just injury prone. When healthy he's been decent with reliable hands. But man,, it's like you touch him and he's down.
I don't call that junk but that's a matter of opinion.
Quote: If his only problem is weed, then I'm not concerned.
I wanted to comment on this.
You can think that it's not a problem based on your own morality and opinion on drugs, but the simple fact is that he can be suspended if he tests for marijuana. In that regard, it IS a potential problem.
What I think Candy was trying to say (...and I really should let him speak for himself) is that MJ use isn't really a hard habit to kick. Easier than caffeine or nicotine, on the scale of things.
Personally, I think that most of these young guys are fine as long as they're around their team mates and staff. The problems seem to ocurr when they go back to their old friends and haunts in the off-season. SOMEONE needs to step up, glue this kid to his hip... and mentor the hell out of him regarding the old addage:
"Old habits die hard."
If he can stay clean for an entire calendar year, limit his exposure to the old krew and old haunts, he should be OK. From all he said, he seems to understand the situation AND the stakes. The brass ring just got grabbed. If he's smart (and not pathologically self-destructive), he'll realize the golden opportunity he has.... and can make the right choices for his life.
What a [potential] success story this is.... from 2 strikes/full count to an NFL contract. You couldn't sell a script like this to the most desperate producer in Hollywood....
If a guy had friends a couple of years ago who like to smoke it up, then it's likely that he still does. He may not have as much access to them, and that's fine during the structure of the football season, but with the money he'll make, it'll be easy for him to go visit these friends. Will he then be strong enough to say no to his friends when they want to party it up?
Ya know...I had this rather in-depth short-story laid out about how I viewed Gordon, what he means to this offense, and what this offense means to the future of the team, but I think I wanna keep this short-and-sweet just for effect:
Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur have pushed their collective chips to the middle of the table and said they are betting their jobs...and the foreseeable future of this team...On two receivers in Little and Gordon who came to the NFL with character issues and iffy resumes, a 2nd round RT that wasn't rated as highly as we took him, and on a 29-year old rookie QB who is attempting to do what nobody has ever done in NFL history.
That's scary. Very scary.
This group won't get to pick the next QB or receiver if these guys fail, and the guys that come behind them won't have anything to show for three second round picks and a first round pick at QB. Kinda sounds just like what Mangini left us with when he had a treasure-trove of draft picks.
I'm not offering an opinion of how well these guys may or may not do, but I just wanted to note the amount of risk these guys have taken to try and go for the quick-fix. If they aren't right...and Richardson is the only guy considered to be a lock...we're facing a new President, a new GM, and a new coaching staff all over again. And that won't start until after the 2013 season.
I've seen this organization come up craps way too often...
There will be a lot of second guessing options based on the selections.
The one thing that I will say, is that I tend to give Heckert the benefit of the doubt on his reach picks. He made several reaches this year, and that will be either good or very bad.
It was pretty obvious that the Browns were not comfortable with the WR corps, and I am not sure that Gordon is the answer, his speed of integration into the offense will be critical to the success of the Browns.
I can't expect much more this year than progression. 2013 will be the beginning or end of this regime.
It is a complete 180 from what Mangini believed in. I hate safe conservative philosophies. The best teams in the NFL had to take a risk at some point.
I would remind you that Mangini was the person whom amassed the treasure trove of draft picks Heckert has enjoyed. Mangini did NOT have that advantage nor did he have the opportunity to use the picks he had amassed.
But I think that’s what Toad was eluding to of course it totally escaped you because you didn’t understand the circumstance that Mangini came into nor do you fully understand what he did to try to correct those circumstances and make them better for the future.
But the youth movement you’re now witnessing was set in motion in no small part by Mangini. It’s important to be fair and honest, and what you’re doing is showing your ignorance of some of the circumstances that led us to where we are now.
BTW Toad I agree they have indeed pushed their chips to the middle of the table, it’s about time. Better yet I can support the attempt…
Quote: Speaking of singings......Weeden and Richardson still aren't signed. With the rookie salary scale...whay is this taking so long?
Nobody really wants to play for the Browns, despite what they say on draft day or what you read in the newspapers.
There is a culture of losing in this town. There has been for most of the last dozen years and there isn't anything that's going to change it except actually winning the games.
I fully expect that Richardson and Weeden will probably be holding out into camp. Why? What are the Browns going to do, go into the season without either one or both of their first round selections signed? What do you expect their agents to do? They'll pry every last penny from the Browns that they want to get and the Browns will pay it.
Quote: You see, I've witnessed many who have frequented this board to stand strong behind the issue of character for a very long time.
I've seen them throw the red flag when a kid has had an issue with dicipline on their NCAA record. I've seen them throw a red flag when any illegal drug was an issue.
I hear ya,., it's scary that he's had these issues. They spent an entire day with him, he's got references from his former HC and another guy they trust named Norwood
It appears to me they'd done a hell of a lot of discovery on the kid and apparently they feel as if he's cleaned up his act,
I don't know that he has or hasn't. Of course, I've never met the kid and don't know.
But red flags do bother the hell out of me. I won't lie to you. I wonder if putting a couple of million dollars in this kids pocket will cause him to take a different view of life and fall back into his old ways.
It's a huge issue with me., I wonder if this was smart.
But, I made a few mistakes as a kid.. I turned out ok. (nobody dropped a boat load of money on me so who knows what might have been)
Here is what we know. the FO did some digging. they talked to the kid for a DAY.
it could just be that he's OK.. Maybe the work they did to look into the kid will be prove worth while and he'll be a star and a stand up man,.'
I tend to want to allow a kid some mistakes. But watch closely
I know their taking some gambles, but I would be very surprised if Heck was shown the door. I think he stays. He has shown time after time that he can draft players. We don't know how much say Holms and Shurms had in some of these picks. I would hate to give him up. I think we can start over with a new coach and staff without getting rid of our best draft man at least since weve been back.
Me thinks you give Genie way to much credit. All he did here was waste draft picks. How many #2 & #3 picks do we have left? When Mass goes that will be the end of some of Genies mess. Heckert's cleaning it up.
This group won't get to pick the next QB or receiver if these guys fail, and the guys that come behind them won't have anything to show for three second round picks and a first round pick at QB. Kinda sounds just like what Mangini left us with when he had a treasure-trove of draft picks.
I'm not offering an opinion of how well these guys may or may not do, but I just wanted to note the amount of risk these guys have taken to try and go for the quick-fix. If they aren't right...and Richardson is the only guy considered to be a lock...we're facing a new President, a new GM, and a new coaching staff all over again. And that won't start until after the 2013 season.
I've seen this organization come up craps way too often...
It's simple, all they have to do is perform and all of that is a non-issue. It's well known that I'm not a Chumley & Sherman fan by any stretch, but I do believe Heckert has a nose for talent and believe that he believes he has assembled the best talent available to him, in positions of need, during his time bracket. I do feel optimistic about that and the direction of those players, (and just to stay on point, I do like the Gordon pick because if he even comes close to realizing his potential, he's a steal).
We may have witnessed slight desperation on Chumley's part with the Weeden pick, (the QB genius who brought you the power trio of Delhomme, Wallace & McCoy,) but it was a calculated risk, and I believe that Heckert believes that he does have talent and value, and true NFL QB potential.
The wild card in all this? Sherman and his complete lack of game planning ability. Will that change with the addition of (Childress) Mr. Peabody? Let's hope so, because if they can't figure out how to beat the opposition in this division, then it won't matter who they drafted. I'm hopeful for the season, (6+ wins would be miraculous,) but wouldn't be surprised to see a new HC in here next year because we don't win more than a handful of games because of that.
Quote: Me thinks you give Genie way to much credit.
And me thinks you are incapable of realizing nor giving credit to him for what he did right. Which by far outwieghted his poor draft...
But more on point had Koke worked out and been able to uphold his end of the deal we are a winning team right now not talking about whether or not our draft picks will be who we hope they will be, or whether or not Shurmur is worth spit (he's not BTW).
And again Genie wanted Koke because he could call the shots. How did that work out? As soon as Koke butted heads with him, he was a non-factor after that. No, Genie did far more harm here than good, IMHO.
Quote: Speaking of singings......Weeden and Richardson still aren't signed. With the rookie salary scale...whay is this taking so long?
Nobody really wants to play for the Browns, despite what they say on draft day or what you read in the newspapers.
There is a culture of losing in this town. There has been for most of the last dozen years and there isn't anything that's going to change it except actually winning the games.
I fully expect that Richardson and Weeden will probably be holding out into camp. Why? What are the Browns going to do, go into the season without either one or both of their first round selections signed? What do you expect their agents to do? They'll pry every last penny from the Browns that they want to get and the Browns will pay it.
Or...you know...they are doing what most players in their positions do, which is wait for the slotted players in front of them to sign so they know which way the wind is blowing.
Obviously nobody wants to play for the Colts since Luck isn't signed...What are the Colts going to do? Go into camp with...ummm...whomever at qb...
I'm not buying that argument, not for an instant. Do I believe most players want to come to Cleveland? Hell no. It's a rust-belt town going the wrong way like most rust-belt towns. However, that doesn't play a role in the contract negotiations. Not a bit.
Quote: The big news for the Cleveland Browns this week was the team's acquisition of WR prospect Josh Gordon with a second-round pick in the supplemental draft on Thursday. (Here's our post on what to expect out of Gordon as a rookie). But another pair of rookies figure to have big roles for the club in 2012 -- first-rounders Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden -- and neither of them are yet under contract.
Not to worry, though; Browns GM Tom Heckert acknowledged this week that he hasn't spoken with the agents for either player for a while, but expects to have both under contract in time for training camp, according to the Akron Beacon Journal. The Browns rookies are slated to report on July 24, with the veterans joining them on July 26.
Richardson (the No. 3 overall pick) is reportedly waiting to see the deals for the two men drafted ahead of him, while some observers believe the holdup on Weeden's deal is a fully guaranteed fourth season.
When Gini arrived we were in cap hell and we had 4 picks in the upcoming draft.
By the time Heckert arrived a year later the cap issue had been put to bed we had 12 picks heading into the draft, and the locker room was fixed. In other words he fixed everything needing to be fixed but the talent issue.
This left Heckert with a treasure trove of picks and cap space to boot. It was a much better set of circumstances then the ones faced by Mangini when he arrived. The me 1st guys were purged from the roster we were in a position to begin to move forward.
So yeah he did far better then given credit yes the draft was GOD awful, but there were other areas of the organization that were in trouble as well. The locker room me 1st attitude was replaced by team 1st guys. Maybe and most certainly not the most talented group but they were in the beginning stages of being a football team.
A hard nosed rockem sockem football team, AFCN tough and meaner then junk yard dawgs. The talent was lacking but it was lacking when he got here. He did find Moore and he also found Bennard so it wasn’t all groom and doom on the talent front like many paint it to be.
And yes Mangini was the guy that set the table for Heckert to come here and start the process of turning this from a veteran football team to a younger team. But it’s important to remember that it was just the beginning and it was a long long way from a finished product but yeah Mangini had a big hand in putting young talent on the team even if most of you are so blinded by your dislike for the guy you can’t see the good he did against a pretty bad set of circumstances..
Gotta be honest with ya and myself.. That's some of the good Mangini did here if your honest and understand where we were at that time it will hit you Mangini did OK under some pretty dire circumstances.
But this isn’t about Mangini NOW it’s about Shurmur and I think Shurmur is a horrible coach…
Quote: And again Genie wanted Koke because he could call the shots. How did that work out? As soon as Koke butted heads with him, he was a non-factor after that. No, Genie did far more harm here than good, IMHO.
I would remind you that Jr hired Koke after Koke recieved a ringing endorsement from Accoursi whom Jr. had gone to for recommendations for the GM position. Instead of talking out your you know what why not get your facts straight 1st OK...
However, if we can't get past the obvious red flags for his off-field issues, then I wouldn't expect us to offer a pick for him at all. I'd be fine with that as well.
