So ..... what's the big lure for Cleveland in that trade? Kris Humphries? Isn't he a free agent? TurkeyGlue? Ugh. Brooks is a decent player, but giving up Andy and taking back a lot of salary hardly seems worth it. There's a rook in there, but the Cavs said that they really only wanted 2 rooks on this year's roster ...... the backup PG is not really impressive, (we did better from the D League)
Why would the Cavaliers make that deal?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Yeah .... but why would someone trade picks for Humphries when they could sign him as a free agent?
I guess that we could take back salary to trade him ...... but the whole deal better be far more impressive than what's in that list. Brooks is a decent SG, and I wouldn't mind adding him to the team ..... but most of the rest is just pretty bleh to me. I'd pass on Turkey Glue ...... The Cavs already said that they didn't want to add a 3rd rookie ..... but maybe that 3rd rookie being another big man changes that .....? Regardless, a late 2nd round Center isn't exactly the most impressive of prizes .....
It almost sounds like the Cavaliers would be giving up draft picks to help with this mess, and I would be really ticked off if that happens.
Here's what the PD says ........
Kinda interesting that Bynum "might consider" Cleveland next year as a free agent .........
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cavaliers could wind up with unrestricted free agent power forward Kris Humphries as the third team in a blockbuster deal that would send disgruntled Orlando center Dwight Howard to the Brooklyn Nets, who reportedly have been his preferred team all along.
An NBA source confirmed the Cavs involvement to The Plain Dealer on Sunday night, while saying nothing was imminent. The story was originally reported by CBSSports.com, which credited Knicks blogger Tommy Dee as breaking the news of the Cavs involvement.
In its most basic form, with many parts undetermined, the trade would send Brook Lopez and several draft choices to Orlando for Howard, while signing-and-trading Humphries to Cleveland in order to make room for Howard's salary.
But the Cavs, roughly $20 million under the salary cap, are in the business of accumulating first-round draft picks, not giving them away, so exactly how they'd fit into this deal is not clear. One of the teams is going to have to give the Cavs something _ a first-round draft choice or, possibly, Nets swingman MarShon Brooks _ to facilitate this deal. In addition, because Humphries is an unrestricted free agent, the Cavs could have just signed him if they really wanted him, so it's possible an additional deal could be in the works.
Howard, who was set to be a free agent this summer before waiving that option and delaying his free agency until next summer, originally said before the start of last season that he wanted to play in New Jersey. After changing his mind several times, he elected to say in Orlando, although he has not made a long-term commitment there.
Magic officials are afraid that if they don't trade him for as much as possible, they'll get nothing when he leaves as a free agent.
The Lakers are another team that has been pursuing Howard, reportedly offering center Andrew Bynum. But Orlando is reluctant to accept Bynum unless he makes a long term commitment. Bynum also can be an unrestricted free agent next summer, and he has not given any indication he would make a long term commitment to Orlando.
Yahoo!Sports reported Sunday that Cleveland, with its cap space, might be a destination Bynum would consider next year.
Humphries, infamously briefly married to Kim Kardashian, averaged 13.8 points and 11 rebounds a game last season, but the 6-9 power forward has always been a beast against the Cavs. He averaged 14.5 points and 9.5 rebounds in four games against the Cavs last season, and had 11 rebounds in three of the four games against Cleveland.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Would the Cavs have enough cap room to give Bynum a max deal if they trade for Turkoglu?
Also, if the Lakers don't get Howard they will certainly sign Bynum to an extension.
I don't know where the Lakers are with regards to the cap.
The Cavaliers are well under the cap, and if, in the proposed trade above, they subtracted Varejao, Harangody, and Walton, and added TurkeyGlue, Humphries, and Brooks (as the main pieces), I would think that they would lose some of their cap room, but not all of it. If they signed Humphries to a 3 year deal with only 1 year guaranteed, then they would probably be in about a break even situation for next season. (and I really don't know anywhere near as much about the NBA cap as I do about the NFL cap)
(These are all rounded off, obviously)
Varejao is $8.4 million this year. Walton is $6 million, and Harangody is $1 million.
Marshon Brooks is about a $1.2 million salary. Humphries would be whatever he and the Cavaliers agreed to. Turkoglu is $11.4 million. (with a $12.2 million player option due next year) Chris Duhon is on the books for $3.6 million this year, and $3.9 next year.
So, this year we would subtract about $15 million in salaries, and add about $19 million, plus whatever we signed Humphries for. Next year we would lose Varejao's $9.1 million salary, but have the possibility that Turkoglu exercises his $12.2 million player option, (likely IMO, because he's not going to make more on the open market) Marshon Brooks is relatively inexpensive for the next few years. ($1.3 - $3 million) Duhon is on the books for almost $4 million next year.
So, we would lose, next year, Andy's $9 million, but add $12.2 for Turkoglu, $1.3 for Brooks, and $4 million for Duhon. So we subtract $9 million but add $15.5 million. (Plus, if there is anything left from either Humphries, or trading him and taking a contract back to make the deal work)
Right now the Cavaliers have only $14.6 million committed in 2013-2014 salaries. As we stand right now, Walton, Gibson, Gee, (although I expect a multi-year deal to get done with him) Harangody, Samuels, and Azubuike all come off the books.
We can have our first rounder, plus either the Heat or Laker 1st rounder, whichever is better. We could also have the Kings 1st round pick, protected in the top 13. With 3 first rounders, we would probably trade 1 plus our 2nd, or maybe even 3 of our picks for 1 like this year.
Anyway ... back on topic ....... we should have a ton of cap space next year regardless of whether or not we take on salary this year. .
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Oh, and the Lakers have $79 million in salary on the books this year, and $61 on the books next year. (without Bynum) That's for only 5 players. Now I suppose that they could go into rebuild mode, and dump Kobe to amnesty, (and dump $30 million in salary) but without draft picks, that would make it difficult. They also add Steve Nash to the picture, at 3 years/$27 million. (They used the trade exemption from the Odom trade to fit his salary in)
Regardless, I have see reports that the salary cap for next year goes down ...... so I doubt that the Lakers will be able to afford Bynum next year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I'm confused. Didn't we just draft our starting SG at #4 overall? So basically we're trading Andy for Chris Humpries, a bench player, and a couple ugly contracts? Why? I hope it's not just to try to prevent the heat from winning again.
Quote: I'm confused. Didn't we just draft our starting SG at #4 overall? So basically we're trading Andy for Chris Humpries, a bench player, and a couple ugly contracts? Why? I hope it's not just to try to prevent the heat from winning again.
above trade has very little to help the Cavs IMO. Woj is saying that we are looking to help only if the Nets really make it worth our while as we aren't looking at Humphries in FA.
I don't know that Brooks coming off the bench necessitates that. i am very confident that Brooks coming off the bench and losing Andy is not that type of deal (along with additional salary).
if we get Kris and Marshon, then great. but, Kris is a PF-only and we need to make sure we're not losing a ton of assets in the process. neither player is better than a standard rotational guy.
Quote: I'm confused. Didn't we just draft our starting SG at #4 overall? So basically we're trading Andy for Chris Humpries, a bench player, and a couple ugly contracts? Why? I hope it's not just to try to prevent the heat from winning again.
Humphries played in 80 more games over the past two years (136 to 56) and averaged more points and more rebounds per game. He can't play the 5 like Andy can, but frankly, having Andy at the 5 kind of stinks. Zeller and Samuels playing the 5 will be sufficient (plenty of folks complained about Samuels not getting enough court time last season). I love Andy's energy and what he can bring to a team, but he seems like he can't stay healthy, he's going to be 30 and doesn't fit into the long-term plans of the team, and I feel he gets paid more than what he's worth at this point.
I'd love to land Lopez in the deal as well. I can't see how Orlando would be willing to make this deal and not get a legit 5 in return though. Unless they plan to roll with Gortat...is he even still on Orlando?
Quote: I'd love to land Lopez in the deal as well. I can't see how Orlando would be willing to make this deal and not get a legit 5 in return though. Unless they plan to roll with Gortat...is he even still on Orlando?
Yeah, it's wishful thinking on my part. It just seems like we're not getting enough. I know we aren't parting with much, but if Andy could ever stay healthy, he's a pretty valuable piece that maybe could get another look at the deadline in Feb.
Sadly, Gortat plays in Phoenix. I like that guy's game a lot. Thought he actually playeda big role in the destruction of the '09 Cavs. Didn't get any credit because Pietrus and Lewis played the best basketball of their lives that series.
Man, where have I been? For some reason I was thinking Gortat was in Phoenix before he played in Orlando. Shows how much attention I pay to those two teams lol
But yeah, he's a nice piece who got stuck in Dwight's shadow.
Quote: Man, where have I been? For some reason I was thinking Gortat was in Phoenix before he played in Orlando. Shows how much attention I pay to those two teams lol
But yeah, he's a nice piece who got stuck in Dwight's shadow.
Orlando is losing quality bigs like Houston is losing quality PGs.
Orlando had Gortat, Ryan Anderson, Brandon Bass, and, of course, Dwight Howard in 2011. the 2012/13 season they might not have any of them (and be rolling with a starting frontcourt of Glenn Davis and Brook Lopez?)
I guess that it depends on what the cap will be. I have read that the cap goes down next year.
Even without Gasol, the 3 year $27 million deal to Nash would put them back at $50 million for 5 players. They do have a team option on Eyenga, but that's less than $3 million.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I guess that it depends on what the cap will be. I have read that the cap goes down next year.
Even without Gasol, the 3 year $27 million deal to Nash would put them back at $50 million for 5 players. They do have a team option on Eyenga, but that's less than $3 million.
but the "big" luxury tax penalties only land for repeat offenders and escalate the higher you are over the threshold. and that's over the luxury line, not the cap.
i don't think the Lakers will have $90mil payrolls every year as they have in the past, but they'll likely dally right around that luxury line wherever it ends up (somewhere around $65-70)
Here's the full video that had the highlights ... there's a few more in there starting at 0:17.
I liked the one comment: "USAB Injury Report: Kobe Bryant - broken ankle, Kevin Durant - broken ankle, James Harden - broken ankle, Russel Westbrook - broken ankle"
Quote: In the proposed deal, Howard, Jason Richardson and Earl Clark would be sent to Brooklyn, and the Magic would receive the Nets' Brook Lopez, Damion James, Sheldon Williams, Cleveland's Luke Walton and three future first-round picks, sources said. Cleveland would receive Orlando's Quentin Richardson, Brooklyn's Sundiata Gaines, Kris Humphries (on a one-year guaranteed deal), a first-round pick and $3 million from the Nets. Brooklyn also would send Brooks to a fourth team to get them an additional first-round pick to send to the Magic.
So we keep Andy but don't get Brooks, and Humphries is only around for a year?
I love cap space as much as the next guy, but it just seems like we're helping Dwight get what he wants, and not really getting much for ourselves.
Not to mention, I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer, but how much cap space do we really want when 3/4 of the league doesn't want to play in Cleveland?
Quote: So we keep Andy but don't get Brooks, and Humphries is only around for a year?
I love cap space as much as the next guy, but it just seems like we're helping Dwight get what he wants, and not really getting much for ourselves.
Not to mention, I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer, but how much cap space do we really want when 3/4 of the league doesn't want to play in Cleveland?
cap space can be used in trades too (and I would argue is better used there)
that trade has us giving up Luke Walton for Kris Humphries and a 1st round pick. Kris Humphries could then become another 1st round pick at the trade deadline potentially (or is at least better than Luke Walton for the year).
Q has been bad the last 2 years, but can hit a 3 if we do keep him on the bench. Gaines is also pretty bad, but would potentially add another Jamaiccan to Cleveland's proud pro-sports littany of Jamaiccan athletes (Masterson, O'Neil Cousins, and S.Samuels)
The Cavs would also get a pick and likely flip Humphries for something else.
ESPN.com says that the fourth team involved is the Clippers and they will be getting Marshon Brooks.
The Clips are quietly building a pretty good team. Paul, Griffin, Odom, Billups, Crawford, Jordan, Bledsoe, Butler, and Brooks is a solid team. If only they would get of Vinny of the Black, they could actually have a shot against the Lakers and Suns.
Also, I asked this before, isn't the owner of the Cavs the guy who was most pissed about the "super teams"? And now he is helping facilitate a deal to create one of those teams.
Yes, but at the same time, if it helps your own cause, then whatever else happens is secondary.
Also, all owners not in LA, Miami, Boston, or somewhat NY hate "super teams"
They're circumventing the system that was put in place to try and rival the NFL and how all 32 teams really do have a good shot.
Not to say I wouldn't take it if it were the Cavs but we all know the only way the Cavs are really going to get a super team is if they build it via the draft and/or get LBJ back because the rest of these divas don't want to play in Cleveland.
your last point is extremely valid. but, if Gilbert stops Grant from doing something that helps the team moving forward for his "political" beliefs, then he is hurting the team.
he needs to keep those battles to the CBA negotiations and allow Grant to work to the best of his abilities within the confines of the current working environment to better the team.
I think he will, but you never know.
(also, that Clippers team was MADE for a HC like Byron Scott)
I don't really root for any NBA team, but I live in L.A. and when the Clippers beat the Lakers it makes the Laker fans squirm, which I love. So I have been rooting for D'Antoni to take over the Clippers ever since Del Negro was almost fired last year. If they can't get him Nate McMillan would also be good.
Quote: your last point is extremely valid. but, if Gilbert stops Grant from doing something that helps the team moving forward for his "political" beliefs, then he is hurting the team.
I have to admit, and I'm a Dan Gilbert supporter as much as anyone, I was a little worried he'd let animosity get in the way of doing the right thing, the best thing for the Cavs.
If you remember around draft time last year, the talk was, should the Cavs take the top talent overall in Kyrie, or take Derrick Williams, then get your 2 for 1 and grab your PG in Knight (or whomever else) Maybe that thinking says you're closer because you got the second best player and a good PG, but it would have been wrong. Dan didn't step in, and let Chris do his work, and that ended up being the best move by far.
He didn't sign any ridiculous deals after the decision for players who weren't even close to it.
Chris Grant pulled a Tom Heckert, and flipped this thing over in a year. This team is a long younger and has some upside, and it's only been 2 years. Much to the same way that Heckert took an old team that Mangini built, and flipped them to the youngest team in the NFL in about 2 years.
Dan Gilbert takes heat for a lot of things, but one thing nobody can knock him for is he has the best people in place to get this thing back to where it was before the decision.
so far, he has not only let his people do their jobs, but he has backed them up when needed (by allowing them to take on salary - Baron Davis, Luke Walton, etc.).
it's about all you can ask for from an owner (other than obviously hiring the right people to make those decisions)
Quote: So we keep Andy but don't get Brooks, and Humphries is only around for a year?
I love cap space as much as the next guy, but it just seems like we're helping Dwight get what he wants, and not really getting much for ourselves.
Not to mention, I don't want to sound like a Debbie Downer, but how much cap space do we really want when 3/4 of the league doesn't want to play in Cleveland?
We pick up a 1st round pick for really not doing much at all except taking on some salary for a year. We get rid of Walton's $6 million, add whatever Humphries costs us (for as long as we have him) and probably dump Richardson ($2 million something this year, and a player option for next of about the same) and Gaines. (and I can't find anything on his salary situation)
So if Humphries cost us $10 million this year, we would have dumped Walton's $6 .... picked up $3 in cash .... so he costs us $1 million this year. He should have some value to a team that can't afford to sign him, but who wants to trade for him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I suppose that we could trade either Humphries or Varejao, whichever one brings more in a trade. I really hadn't thought of it in that way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I suppose that we could trade either Humphries or Varejao, whichever one brings more in a trade. I really hadn't thought of it in that way.
only issue in doing that is it puts us back with Samuels as a big part of our frontcourt rotation.
PF: Humphries/TT C: Andy/Zeller
That's a pretty good frontcourt rotation there. Of course, if Kris only signs for 1 season, then he's the guy who is instantly on the trading block (it's 6 months now before we can actually trade him after signing I believe though).
We'd still have a hole at backup PG (and SG depending on what we think of Gibson). And, really starting SF (I like Gee, but he's a backup on a good team).
