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I like the fact that this guy is supposed to have great hands. No body catches. That with the other factors has me hopefully optimistic.
Joe Thomas #73
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I like the fact that this guy is supposed to have great hands. No body catches. That with the other factors has me hopefully optimistic.
I like all that also, but I'm also concerned about character. If all he did was youthful mistakes and he'd turned it around, they I got no issue with it.
But I am concerned.
skill wise, I watched what little video there is on him and yeah,, he's got skills. no question about it.
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I like the fact that this guy is supposed to have great hands. No body catches. That with the other factors has me hopefully optimistic.
I personally don't look at this move or this off-season as "pushing our chips to the center of the table".
It certainly is a major overhaul on the offensive side of the ball, but we did it with Draft picks (one and all) and with drafting there is always a risk involved. That's not pushing all of your chips to the center of the table so to speak ... Washington would be an example of such a thing, by giving up future picks (Mortgaging their future) and going hog wild in FA.
I think all of our top picks where prudent selections. Some may argue that some (Weeden and Schwartz) where reaches ... I don't agree that they where and neither did Heckert, so I guess that's a matter of opinion and not fact.
I never dreamed we could fill so many holes in one off-season, by way of the Draft and if you also consider the prospects/players we added to our defense by way of the Draft and thew FA (not going for broke), then I think that Heckert and company have done a bang up job 'attempting' to plug those deficiencies.
Did we Mortgage our future by selecting Gordon? I think not ... we just got him a year sooner and hopefully by next April when the Draft comes back around, having him with a full season of acclamation, that we will be able to do no better with that 2nd round selection. One that most likely will not be as high as Pick 34.
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I don't understand all the we talk him with the 34th overall pick How does anyone know where we pick in the 2nd rd NEXT year ? Offer a contract for the middle of round two and if his agent says no then tell them to wait till next year and see what our 2nd is really worth.. Wow .. the media says something and all of a sudden it's fact. 
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I personally don't look at this move or this off-season as "pushing our chips to the center of the table".
Here's how you measure. Ask yourself this question:
If Weeden and Gordon fail, would Holmgren get the chance to choose a third starting QB for the Browns?
He would have hand-picked McCoy and failed. He would have hand-picked Weeden and failed.
How many other team Presidents are afforded the opportunity to fail not once but twice and still survive the guillotine to try a third time?
Not very damned many.
I don't believe that 2012 is the "make or break" year, which on the surface would contradict my statement that they've bet the farm and will live or die by these past few choices. However, if 2013 gets here and guys named Gordon and Weeden are failing to do anything more than guys name Massaquoi and McCoy, these shot-callers are GONE.
Walrus, Heck, and Shurmur now have their careers tied to what amounts to the 2012 draft. If it's a bust, they won't survive. If that isn't a "chips all in" scenario, I'm not sure one exists.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't understand all the we talk him with the 34th overall pick How does anyone know where we pick in the 2nd rd NEXT year ? Offer a contract for the middle of round two and if his agent says no then tell them to wait till next year and see what our 2nd is really worth.. Wow .. the media says something and all of a sudden it's fact.
In real life terms I can see that there would appear to be a big difference in what a prospect would receive by way of a contract from the top of the 2nd round to to middle of the round, but really in football terms there is not so big a difference. I don't foresee a problem getting Gordon signed to a contract.
He is already behind his peers. Some may argue that the mini camp and rookie camp is really no big deal, but to a rookie it can make all the difference in the world, because they are starting from scratch.
My hope is that we get him signed in ASAP.
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"He would have hand-picked McCoy and failed."
Come on Toad.. now your even sounding like the media.. "Hand picked" ? In the 3rd round.. Give me a break.. The only reason Holmgren won't be here is because is retires.. Randy isn't that stupid or clueless as to not know Colt was a flyer pick and NO one viewed that pick as him betting the franchise future on it.... Well.. except Mary Kay.
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I think that the current regime gets more than this year no matter what happens on the field. They will be starting a rookie QB, RB, WR, RT, and possibly a 2nd year TE and LG. There is youth and inexperience galore on this offense.
I doubt that Lerner will come running in and start firing people if there are bumps along the way. As long as they show promise and progress, the coaches and front office will almost certainly be fine.
As far as Gordon goes ...... I have concerns about him, not only character concerns, but also that he's never run real, NFL routes. He's been more of a "go" guy in his short career. He needs to learn the entire tree, and without any OTAs. He'll have training camp, but he will have missed most of the off-season program just because he went in the Supplemental Draft. He's a risk in many ways ... but he does have the physical talent. I bet that Gordon will be spending a lot of time with Cromwell, working on routes, how to use his body on shorter routes, and so on. Hopefully he'll pan out ...... but I'm still somewhat holding my breath. (figuratively, of course)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Toad, I totally get the point you are attempting to make.
However I think that you are painting a picture of the worst case scenario.
We may miss on some, but I don't see us missing across the board and that's really all we as fans can expect or should realistically hope for imo.
With that said I welcome your points as the devils advocate (self expressive thought) on this and other issues.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 07/14/12 02:43 PM.
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I think that the current regime gets more than this year no matter what happens on the field. They will be starting a rookie QB, RB, WR, RT, and possibly a 2nd year TE and LG. There is youth and inexperience galore on this offense.
I doubt Toad was talking about the whole regime getting the boot after THIS season. I'd think Weeden would get 2 seasons to show what he's got, no matter how he looks.
And if I were Lerner, and it came to dumping Holmgren (or he walked on his own), I'd ask Heck to stay . . .
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As far as Gordon goes ...... I have concerns about him, not only character concerns, but also that he's never run real, NFL routes. He's been more of a "go" guy in his short career.
True, but .....
The same can really be said for Wright (who we might have selected in the first round).
This is why I don't see this as a move to improve the position so much this season, but rather with an eye on the future. We all can pretty much guess (unless you live under a rock) that WR would have been high on our Draft list for next year.
We just made a move a year earlier.
Isn't Moe's contract due to expire after this season?
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 07/14/12 01:21 PM.
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I think that the current regime gets more than this year no matter what happens on the field. They will be starting a rookie QB, RB, WR, RT, and possibly a 2nd year TE and LG. There is youth and inexperience galore on this offense.
I doubt Toad was talking about the whole regime getting the boot after THIS season. I'd think Weeden would get 2 seasons to show what he's got, no matter how he looks.
And if I were Lerner, and it came to dumping Holmgren (or he walked on his own), I'd ask Heck to stay . . .
Tom Heckert for Mayor 
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So Tom gets a medal for "His" picks and Mike gets the boot for being "All in" and hand picking the QB's if they fail ? It's beginning to sounds like my ex's divorce atty's logic has become reality around here.. And all this time, I thought you had to graduate law school to lose all your brain cells and common sense.
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As far as Gordon goes ...... I have concerns about him, not only character concerns, but also that he's never run real, NFL routes. He's been more of a "go" guy in his short career.
True, but .....
The same can really be said for Wright (who we might have selected in the first round).
This is why I don't see this as a move to improve the position so much this season, but rather with an eye on the future. We all can pretty much guess (unless you live under a rock) that WR would have been high on our Draft list for next year.
We just made a move a year earlier.
Isn't Moe's contract due to expire after this season?
At least Wright ran some underneath stuff in addition to the deeper routes. Gordon ran mostly go and WR screens. He ran very simple routes. This is not to say that he can't learn the other routes, just that he has to. He not only has to get the physical part down, but also the mental part of all of the WCO routes.
Massaquoi's contact does expire after this season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So Tom gets a medal for "His" picks and Mike gets the boot for being "All in" and hand picking the QB's if they fail ? It's beginning to sounds like my ex's divorce atty's logic has become reality around here.. And all this time, I thought you had to graduate law school to lose all your brain cells and common sense.
I have no issue with Big Mike, but Tom Heckert is the one GM who drafts to my liking sense the days when Bill Belichick was running the show. He doesn't ignore the trenches and for the most part his picks have been pretty solid (with some speculations of course).
He knew that he would need 3 Drafts to really turn the mess he inherited around and to this point I think that it can be said that he has now 'addressed' most of our 'major' deficiencies.
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I personally don't look at this move or this off-season as "pushing our chips to the center of the table".
Here's how you measure. Ask yourself this question:
If Weeden and Gordon fail, would Holmgren get the chance to choose a third starting QB for the Browns?
He would have hand-picked McCoy and failed. He would have hand-picked Weeden and failed.
How many other team Presidents are afforded the opportunity to fail not once but twice and still survive the guillotine to try a third time?
Not very damned many.
I don't believe that 2012 is the "make or break" year, which on the surface would contradict my statement that they've bet the farm and will live or die by these past few choices. However, if 2013 gets here and guys named Gordon and Weeden are failing to do anything more than guys name Massaquoi and McCoy, these shot-callers are GONE.
Walrus, Heck, and Shurmur now have their careers tied to what amounts to the 2012 draft. If it's a bust, they won't survive. If that isn't a "chips all in" scenario, I'm not sure one exists.
I'll just say "Horse Hockey" (or however you want to spell it), and leave it at that. It's about all it warrants, IMO.
On topic:
Is this move a risk? Sure, but it's a calculated risk by people that are actually informed better than any of us on the topic.
Do all of the keyboard jockeys on here REALLY think that this front office isn't acutely aware of what him having two prior incidents means? Yet, they still took him.
These guys do their homework, THEY have actually sat down with this kid face-to-face and gotten a read on him. THEY have actually gone and talked to coaches and people that know him.
After all of that due diligence, they've come away with the feeling that the kid was worth selecting. He has the potential, now it's up to him to live up to it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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As far as Gordon goes ...... I have concerns about him, not only character concerns, but also that he's never run real, NFL routes. He's been more of a "go" guy in his short career.
True, but .....
The same can really be said for Wright (who we might have selected in the first round).
This is why I don't see this as a move to improve the position so much this season, but rather with an eye on the future. We all can pretty much guess (unless you live under a rock) that WR would have been high on our Draft list for next year.
We just made a move a year earlier.
Isn't Moe's contract due to expire after this season?
At least Wright ran some underneath stuff in addition to the deeper routes. Gordon ran mostly go and WR screens. He ran very simple routes. This is not to say that he can't learn the other routes, just that he has to. He not only has to get the physical part down, but also the mental part of all of the WCO routes.
Massaquoi's contact does expire after this season.
Wright was a much bigger part of what they did ... true, but the point being is that they don't teach proper route running at Baylor.
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He not only has to get the physical part down, but also the mental part of all of the WCO routes.
Good point.
That's why I feel we won't see Gordon as a big part of the offense early on as in the case with Greg Little last season (remember he played on year in a WCO at NC).
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 07/14/12 02:02 PM.
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There is no doubt the regime is all in with this basic club. They hope to show enough improvement and excitement to get another 2-3 years to finish it off. It doesn't take a genius to know if we win 4 games and have a problem scoring points, something is going to change.
It's one thing if we only win 4 games but post up 30+ points a few times this season. It's another if we only win 4 games and have a hard time breaking 20 points a game.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I personally don't look at this move or this off-season as "pushing our chips to the center of the table".
Here's how you measure. Ask yourself this question:
If Weeden and Gordon fail, would Holmgren get the chance to choose a third starting QB for the Browns?
He would have hand-picked McCoy and failed. He would have hand-picked Weeden and failed.
How many other team Presidents are afforded the opportunity to fail not once but twice and still survive the guillotine to try a third time?
Not very damned many.
I don't believe that 2012 is the "make or break" year, which on the surface would contradict my statement that they've bet the farm and will live or die by these past few choices. However, if 2013 gets here and guys named Gordon and Weeden are failing to do anything more than guys name Massaquoi and McCoy, these shot-callers are GONE.
Walrus, Heck, and Shurmur now have their careers tied to what amounts to the 2012 draft. If it's a bust, they won't survive. If that isn't a "chips all in" scenario, I'm not sure one exists.
I'll just say "Horse Hockey" (or however you want to spell it), and leave it at that. It's about all it warrants, IMO.
On topic:
Is this move a risk? Sure, but it's a calculated risk by people that are actually informed better than any of us on the topic.
Do all of the keyboard jockeys on here REALLY think that this front office isn't acutely aware of what him having two prior incidents means? Yet, they still took him.
These guys do their homework, THEY have actually sat down with this kid face-to-face and gotten a read on him. THEY have actually gone and talked to coaches and people that know him.
After all of that due diligence, they've come away with the feeling that the kid was worth selecting. He has the potential, now it's up to him to live up to it.
I have my concerns Purp, but your points are well put. they did their homework on the kid. And they felt he was worth the risk.
Like I said, I watched some videos and there really isn't a question that he has/had skills. the question in my mind is how quickly can he get back to football shape both physically and mentally. I would not at all be surprised to see this kid not even begin to blossom until the 2013 season. It might just take that long.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I don't understand all the we talk him with the 34th overall pick How does anyone know where we pick in the 2nd rd NEXT year ? Offer a contract for the middle of round two and if his agent says no then tell them to wait till next year and see what our 2nd is really worth.. Wow .. the media says something and all of a sudden it's fact.
1. There was a lottery for draft order.
2. Buffalo came in first, we came in second, I don't know the rest of the order and it's immaterial.
3. No team selected Gordon in the first round
4. Buffalo didn't select him in the second round.
5. We did. Therefore he's the 34th selection overall.
6. Not too hard a concept here.
7. I feel like I'm writing one of those contrived Patrick McManamon First and Ten articles 
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There is no doubt the regime is all in with this basic club. They hope to show enough improvement and excitement to get another 2-3 years to finish it off. It doesn't take a genius to know if we win 4 games and have a problem scoring points, something is going to change.
It's one thing if we only win 4 games but post up 30+ points a few times this season. It's another if we only win 4 games and have a hard time breaking 20 points a game.
I don't think that's an unrealistic expectation as a fan to expect improvement and progression in the plan from the top.
Big Mike is on record and expects one in the same.
The product will speak for itself ... No?
Personally I'm going to wait and see what that product is before I become an alarmist and start calling for heads to roll.
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I personally don't look at this move or this off-season as "pushing our chips to the center of the table".
Here's how you measure. Ask yourself this question:
If Weeden and Gordon fail, would Holmgren get the chance to choose a third starting QB for the Browns?
He would have hand-picked McCoy and failed. He would have hand-picked Weeden and failed.
How many other team Presidents are afforded the opportunity to fail not once but twice and still survive the guillotine to try a third time?
Not very damned many.
I don't believe that 2012 is the "make or break" year, which on the surface would contradict my statement that they've bet the farm and will live or die by these past few choices. However, if 2013 gets here and guys named Gordon and Weeden are failing to do anything more than guys name Massaquoi and McCoy, these shot-callers are GONE.
Walrus, Heck, and Shurmur now have their careers tied to what amounts to the 2012 draft. If it's a bust, they won't survive. If that isn't a "chips all in" scenario, I'm not sure one exists.
I'll just say "Horse Hockey" (or however you want to spell it), and leave it at that. It's about all it warrants, IMO.
On topic:
Is this move a risk? Sure, but it's a calculated risk by people that are actually informed better than any of us on the topic.
Do all of the keyboard jockeys on here REALLY think that this front office isn't acutely aware of what him having two prior incidents means? Yet, they still took him.
These guys do their homework, THEY have actually sat down with this kid face-to-face and gotten a read on him. THEY have actually gone and talked to coaches and people that know him.
After all of that due diligence, they've come away with the feeling that the kid was worth selecting. He has the potential, now it's up to him to live up to it.
Horse Hockey x2
I seriously think Lerner would sell the team before he started again from scratch. We have as senior a group as any NFL organization top to bottom that I've ever seen. If these guys can't eventually do it I think Lerner would just sell the team and go watch soccer.
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Last point..... Is Baylor football really all that?!? RG3 = we tried to trade 3 first round picks ++ Kendall Wright = We would have selected him at 22 had he been there. Josh Gordon = second rounder Phil Taylor = first rounder I mean seriously?!?
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I would not at all be surprised to see this kid not even begin to blossom until the 2013 season. It might just take that long.
That would be fine with me, because anyone we would Draft next year would not have that year of seasoning and in our system.
Meh! Gordon is icing on the cake as far as our Draft picks this year go, because I think that we still came up one high selection short to fill all of the needs that we now have accomplished with taking Gordon in the Supplemental Draft.
Look a gift horse in the mouth?
Not Tom Heckert.
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Last point.....
Is Baylor football really all that?!?
RG3 = we tried to trade 3 first round picks ++
Kendall Wright = We would have selected him at 22 had he been there.
Josh Gordon = second rounder
Phil Taylor = first rounder
I mean seriously?!?
I had the same thoughts too.
Football factory and Baylor have never appeared in the same sentience before ... well before now
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they have another receiver that will probably go in the top 2 rounds again next year, too.
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interesting points about being all in with these picks but I dont really see it that way in fact I think MH but his "chips all in" when he make Shurm head coach, thats the decision that will make or break him.
Heckert has done what you expect a GM to do address team weaknesses as best he can in each draft, placing a solid foundation for the team to build upon.
Alot of people wanted to see big bold moves and when they didnt happen I read alot of disapointment here. We didnt give up enough to get RG3 they are blowing it.
We didnt sign any WR in FA they are blowing it etc etc.
Now what they did do as someone said was got us probably one of the best RB's we have seen here sense the 80's, a chance at a franchise QB (and I dont consider drafting a QB in the late 1st round as a make or brake pick because most QB's drafted in that area sit for a few years) have a chance at a #1 WR using a future draft pick instead of trading up this year and using that pick in a trade and have addressed the OL as well.
Tom has rebuild the defense in his first 2 years here and now is in the process of rebuilding the offense. With next years draft he can begin to fill the peices as they need replacing and adding depth like all the other teams do.
IMHO Shurmer is the biggest wild card in all this and if this regime fails it will be on his shoulders and I still think Randy would keep Tom because he has done what hes supposed to do.
Mike may have to swallow some of his pride if Shurm fails badly this year and fire him or he (MH) could be gone as well.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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they have another receiver that will probably go in the top 2 rounds again next year, too.
Terrance Williams
Baylor also had quite a few other players drafted iirc. Phillip Blake and Ganaway (sp)
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interesting points about being all in with these picks but I dont really see it that way in fact I think MH but his "chips all in" when he make Shurm head coach, thats the decision that will make or break him.
Heckert has done what you expect a GM to do address team weaknesses as best he can in each draft, placing a solid foundation for the team to build upon.
Alot of people wanted to see big bold moves and when they didnt happen I read alot of disapointment here. We didnt give up enough to get RG3 they are blowing it.
We didnt sign any WR in FA they are blowing it etc etc.
Now what they did do as someone said was got us probably one of the best RB's we have seen here sense the 80's, a chance at a franchise QB (and I dont consider drafting a QB in the late 1st round as a make or brake pick because most QB's drafted in that area sit for a few years) have a chance at a #1 WR using a future draft pick instead of trading up this year and using that pick in a trade and have addressed the OL as well.
Tom has rebuild the defense in his first 2 years here and now is in the process of rebuilding the offense. With next years draft he can begin to fill the peices as they need replacing and adding depth like all the other teams do.
IMHO Shurmer is the biggest wild card in all this and if this regime fails it will be on his shoulders and I still think Randy would keep Tom because he has done what hes supposed to do.
Mike may have to swallow some of his pride if Shurm fails badly this year and fire him or he (MH) could be gone as well.
I guess I don't get the Heckert should stay MH should go 'if' the team and or the Head Coach should fail.
He is responsible for bringing Tom Heckert into the fold and he has also supported his Head Coach by way of bringing in two new experienced coaches who can help lighten his load, so he can coach/teach in the way that gets the most out of his qualities as a Coach.
So if this team does truly fail, then your half right ... it will be on the Head Coach.
The Buck stops with Big Mike and it would then be on his shoulders to do the prudent thing and fire the Head Coach.
I don't think it will come to that, because we have a wealth of experienced people all reading from the same book ... that and I have a pretty good feeling that this ship is on a proper course.
No I don't have a crystal ballpeen (I couldn't resist the temptation peen) 
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Legend
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I don't understand all the we talk him with the 34th overall pick How does anyone know where we pick in the 2nd rd NEXT year ? Offer a contract for the middle of round two and if his agent says no then tell them to wait till next year and see what our 2nd is really worth.. Wow .. the media says something and all of a sudden it's fact.
1. There was a lottery for draft order.
2. Buffalo came in first, we came in second, I don't know the rest of the order and it's immaterial.
3. No team selected Gordon in the first round
4. Buffalo didn't select him in the second round.
5. We did. Therefore he's the 34th selection overall.
6. Not too hard a concept here.
7. I feel like I'm writing one of those contrived Patrick McManamon First and Ten articles
I think the confusion (at least on my part is) we gave up next years 2nd round pick. Since the season hasn't been played yet, how do we know what pick we gave up.
I mean, if we win 10 games, we aren't going to have high pick in the second round.. certainly not the 34th at any rate.
So the concept of saying we gave up the 34th pick makes no sense in the real world. Nor does it make any sense to tell me that he should be paid as if it were the 34th pick.
My guess is look at someone towards the middle of the second round this year and match those kinda numbers. that should work.. no guarantees
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What happens if it turns out to be the 64th Pick ?
Joe Thomas #73
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What happens if it turns out to be the 64th Pick ?
Won't matter,, if we're that bad, there will be a rash of suicides in Brownstown...LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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they have another receiver that will probably go in the top 2 rounds again next year, too.
Terrance Williams
Baylor also had quite a few other players drafted iirc. Phillip Blake and Ganaway (sp)
Phillip Blake was a good value (Denver) in the 5th round imo.
I think Taylor might have help get the youngster ready for the big's going against him in practice at Baylor.
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What happens if it turns out to be the 64th Pick ?
 Dancing in the streets
It's #1 on my bucket list 
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What happens if it turns out to be the 64th Pick ?
Won't matter,, if we're that bad, there will be a rash of suicides in Brownstown...LOL
I hope we're that bad next year.
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Last point.....
Is Baylor football really all that?!?
RG3 = we tried to trade 3 first round picks ++
Kendall Wright = We would have selected him at 22 had he been there.
Josh Gordon = second rounder
Phil Taylor = first rounder
I mean seriously?!?
Evidently it has been. I think the Norwood connection puts us a bit closer then some. I have read Norwood Sr. has a close connection to the Browns or some on the Browns staff. Other than that, there's no telling why all the Baylor players the last couple of years. Maybe it's as simple the players were good and we wanted them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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interesting points about being all in with these picks but I dont really see it that way in fact I think MH but his "chips all in" when he make Shurm head coach, thats the decision that will make or break him.
Heckert has done what you expect a GM to do address team weaknesses as best he can in each draft, placing a solid foundation for the team to build upon.
Alot of people wanted to see big bold moves and when they didnt happen I read alot of disapointment here. We didnt give up enough to get RG3 they are blowing it.
We didnt sign any WR in FA they are blowing it etc etc.
Now what they did do as someone said was got us probably one of the best RB's we have seen here sense the 80's, a chance at a franchise QB (and I dont consider drafting a QB in the late 1st round as a make or brake pick because most QB's drafted in that area sit for a few years) have a chance at a #1 WR using a future draft pick instead of trading up this year and using that pick in a trade and have addressed the OL as well.
Tom has rebuild the defense in his first 2 years here and now is in the process of rebuilding the offense. With next years draft he can begin to fill the peices as they need replacing and adding depth like all the other teams do.
IMHO Shurmer is the biggest wild card in all this and if this regime fails it will be on his shoulders and I still think Randy would keep Tom because he has done what hes supposed to do.
Mike may have to swallow some of his pride if Shurm fails badly this year and fire him or he (MH) could be gone as well.
I guess I don't get the Heckert should stay MH should go 'if' the team and or the Head Coach should fail.
He is responsible for bringing Tom Heckert into the fold and he has also supported his Head Coach by way of bringing in two new experienced coaches who can help lighten his load, so he can coach/teach in the way that gets the most out of his qualities as a Coach.
So if this team does truly fail, then your half right ... it will be on the Head Coach.
The Buck stops with Big Mike and it would then be on his shoulders to do the prudent thing and fire the Head Coach.
I don't think it will come to that, because we have a wealth of experienced people all reading from the same book ... that and I have a pretty good feeling that this ship is on a proper course.
No I don't have a crystal ballpeen (I couldn't resist the temptation peen)
I think you and I agree. Thats why I said Shurm is the wild card and as you said if he fails Mike would have to do the right thing.
Personally going into this off season I didnt expect the Browns win more then 4 games, with the new players in the Draft and now the Sup Draft I think we can win 6 games possibly 8 if everything clicks.
I could be wrong but I think JG will be a starter game #1 across from Little. As others have speculated this could be the end for Mo Mass, or it could just be I've got my Brown colored glasses on but at this time of year hopefully you all can forgive me that. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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What happens if it turns out to be the 64th Pick ?
Won't matter,, if we're that bad, there will be a rash of suicides in Brownstown...LOL
I hope we're that bad next year.
LOL I hope we are that bad THIS year. Hey can all dream. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Yeah, I meant this season as in the "next" season that we play, or the "next" draft. 2012-13 season, 2013 draft...I hope the pick we forfeit for selecting Gordon is the 64th pick in the draft.
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My guess is look at someone towards the middle of the second round this year and match those kinda numbers. that should work.. no guarantees
My guess is that he will get this years pick 34 numbers that by next year may equal mid 2nd round money.
You can't change the selection number or year. You can argue that it (pick 34) will be worth more next year, but then next year the pick could be lower too (it can't get much higher) and the selection came in this calender year.
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