DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum New Gordon Thread

The fact heckert spent a 2nd rounder on a guy that failed 3 drug tests really says something about the perceived talent that this kid has. I am very intrigued to see this kid in live competition.

I agree... I imagine he has a fair amount of rust to knock off of his game, so I'm going to have modest expectations for him early on. However, if he can keep his nose clean and to the grindstone, he could make something of himself in this league. It would seem the raw talent is certainly there.

Drugs?

Marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, prescription painkillers, some "legal" some not.

All are drugs but someone decides what's "legal". At one time cocaine was legal and alcohol was not.

Marijuana is legal in some cases but not in others?

From this point forward for me Gordon has a clean slate. What I am looking for from him is production. He needs to justify the price tag of a second rounder.

I really don't care about what he did on or off the field in college.

There are a hell of lot of people that smoke both pot and tobacco. Not a good thing for you. But look at the true results of alcohol yet that is ok?

...and he just lied about the third failed drug test....


...but he's a changed man. Just ask him.

I'm becoming more and more concerned that this regime has no clue what they are doing. First they are rebuilding, but not because they were going to keep Mangini. He blew a TON of great draft picks on guys that can't even play, so we scrapped it to start over. We don't spend JACK-SQUAT in free agency, but we're going to panic and spend a 1st on a guy who will be 29 as a rookie, and a future 2nd rounder on a guy who failed three drug tests because the WR position isn't stable?

I was cool on Holmgren when he was hired, never excited. I'm less excited now.

As for Gordon...Hell...talk to me about him when he does something besides fail multiple drug tests and lie about it...

Yep its funny how 2 different people can look at Situation and have 2 total different perspectives. I absolutely love what HnH are doing. I could care about age or drug test if you stay straight and perform on game day.
Bottom line...winning cures all.
All is unknown at this point. If these two guys Pan out and TRich is close to what we expect...all will be forgotten!!!!

I agree about the Weeden pick. I still feel it was an incredibly stupid pick. However feeling upset about spending a future pick on Gordon is a mistake in my opinion. I see a guy with huge potential.

Ahh Toad,, we were all young once and we all made a ton of mistakes. his mistakes could be youthful stupidity or a long term concern. I'd hope that we did our due diligence and were able to determine which is true.

Hey, he's a brown now. so I'm hoping for the best.

There is a clip of some of yesterdays camp practice.. Damn, Gordan showed a little something. Not that you could see much but what you could see was pretty interesting. That clip can be found on the main site.

there is also a clip of his interview. I haven't had a chance to see it yet. I did watch a little of Shurmurs and all of Richardsons, but missed Weedens and Gordons.

I'll get to them later.

The Weeden pick better hit. Next year's draft looks like it will be deep at Qb. No way we invest 1st round picks in back to back years on Qb. If we indeed did panic and take Weeden because our Qb position stinks rather than because of his talent then we miss out on the opportunity to fix the Qb position next year with a young talented QB in the 2013 draft.


Matt Barkley, Logan Thomas headline top college quarterbacks

By Chad Reuter NFL Network
Draft analyst
Published: July 16, 2012 at 02:30 p.m. Updated: July 16, 2012 at 04:46 p.m. 91 Likes | 39 Comments
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Ben Liebenberg/NFL
Entering his fourth year as a starter, Matt Barkley is poised to become the latest product of USC's QB machine.



Football season is right around the corner! Not only in the NFL, but at the college level, too. As a resident guru of the Saturday standouts, Chad Reuter provides the top draft-eligible college players at each position in a 10-part series. Today's group is the quarterbacks.

Best college football players by position

With the college football season approaching, and the 2013 NFL Draft on the horizon next April, NFL.com draft analyst Chad Reuter is providing the top draft-eligible college players at each position in a 10-part series.


Last summer, it appeared obvious to all the world that quarterback Andrew Luck would be the top pick if he decided to leave Stanford after his redshirt junior season. Baylor's Robert Griffin III, the eventual Heisman Trophy winner, made a run at the No. 1 spot with his combination of athleticism, passing prowess and intelligence. But Luck's position as the top pick -- he was selected by the Indianapolis Colts to replace future Hall of Famer Peyton Manning -- seemed pre-determined.

This year's competition to be the top college quarterback is, comparatively, up in the air. USC star Matt Barkley, a four-year starter in a high-profile program, is the best-known passer. But Virginia Tech's Logan Thomas, who intrigued scouts with his growth during his first year leading the Hokies in 2011, certainly possesses the physical attributes to one day be an elite playmaker at the next level. Georgia signal-caller Aaron Murray lacks Thomas' imposing stature, but shows all of the other tell-tale signs of being a very good starter in the future.

Arkansas senior Tyler Wilson also has the toughness and arm strength to be in the mix early in the 2013 NFL Draft, though he'll need to fight through the loss of his head coach and three drafted receivers -- as well as tough SEC defenses. Landry Jones, Oklahoma's quick-strike passer, is looking to impress scouts in his final year, but he lost his security blanket when receiver Ryan Broyles was drafted in April, leaving him with an unsettled situation at wideout. Miami of Ohio quarterback Zac Dysert will attempt to find a place on the national radar this season. With an intriguing mix of playmaking ability and accuracy, Dysert has the potential to rank above fellow seniors Wilson and Jones.

Long story short, the college level is loaded with future NFL talent. Considering the ever-increasing importance of the quarterback position and the shrinking window passers are given to develop, many of the following players will get a shot at running an NFL offense sooner rather than later, assuming they progress during the 2012 season.

*Denotes underclassmen.

1. Matt Barkley, 6-foot-2, 230 pounds, USC
Expect Barkley to be the fourth top-10 passer USC has produced since 2003 (joining Carson Palmer, Matt Leinart and Mark Sanchez). Though not elite in terms of his height, arm strength or mobility, Barkley possesses enough of each to capably move an NFL offense with accurate short throws (69.1 percent completion rate in 2011), solid decision making (39 touchdowns and just seven interceptions last year) and the downfield touch necessary to take advantage of a talented receiving corps. The fact he decided to return for his senior season to help his team compete for a national championship in 2012 after going through a postseason ban is just one measure of his intangibles.
NFL comparison: Drew Brees


Logan Thomas is reminiscent of rising star Cam Newton. (Patrick Green/Associated Press)
2. Logan Thomas, 6-6, 262, Virginia Tech*
Thomas is a big-bodied physical specimen with the arm strength to stretch defenses vertically (3,013 passing yards in 2011) and the running ability (11 rushing TDs last year) to make coordinators cringe. Scouts thought Cam Newton, who went on to be the NFL's Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2011, was in his infancy as a passer in college, and they might think the same about Thomas. But his ability to make throws to all levels of a defense, and his potential as a pass/run playmaker, mark him as someone to watch.
NFL comparison: Cam Newton

3. Aaron Murray, 6-1, 211, Georgia*
Murray's less-than-ideal size might concern some, and he must reduce his turnovers (14 interceptions and eight fumbles -- three lost -- in 2011) before he can be considered truly elite. But when he and his receivers are on the same page, he has displayed the intelligence and agility necessary to run an efficient movement offense. He also has enough arm strength to hit targets all over the field (3,149 yards, 35 touchdowns last year). Add in a healthy amount of toughness -- Murray returned from an early-season broken leg during his senior year in high school to lead his team to a Florida state title -- and you've got a top-notch future prospect.
NFL comparison: Tony Romo

4. Zac Dysert, 6-4, 230, Miami (Ohio)
Dysert enjoyed a breakout season in 2011, reminding scouts a bit of former Miami (Ohio) product Ben Roethlisberger by relying more on toughness and playmaking ability than efficiency (he finished with 3,513 passing yards, a 65.8 percent completion rate and 23 touchdowns). He does not possess the two-time Super Bowl winner's elite arm and bulk, but Dysert still has enough of both -- along with the athleticism and deft passing ability to make NFL-caliber plays on the run -- to become one of the top passers in the class.
NFL comparison: Ben Roethlisberger

5. Tyler Wilson, 6-3, 220, Arkansas
Wilson is in for a tough senior season, having lost his head coach to scandal and top three wideouts to the 2012 NFL Draft. He's as tough-minded and strong-armed a passer as you'll find, though, so I won't be surprised if he overcomes those issues and stands tall in the pocket to put up another excellent campaign (to follow up on 3,638 yards, 24 touchdowns and just six interceptions in 2011).
NFL comparison: Matt Hasselbeck

6. Landry Jones, 6-4, 230, Oklahoma
Jones struggled in his junior campaign after losing Broyles to injury, but he still won the Sammy Baugh Trophy as the nation's top passer in 2010 (registering 4,718 yards, 38 touchdowns and 12 interceptions). The NFL-sized pocket passer is decisive and flashes the arm and accuracy necessary to pick apart defenses at the next level. However, he must be more consistent in his reads and decisions to keep turnovers and missed opportunities from impeding his efficiency.
NFL comparison: Matt Cassel

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7. E.J. Manuel, 6-5, 238, Florida State
As naturally gifted as any quarterback in the class, the physically imposing Manuel has a chance to shoot up this list if he can show off his strong arm and mobility in 2012. Scouts appreciate his leadership qualities and toughness (he played through a broken leg in last year's Champs Sports Bowl win over Notre Dame). They hope he can prove consistent enough in his decision making and accuracy to reliably move a pro offense, and use his high-velocity throws and athleticism to create big plays.
NFL comparison: Jason Campbell

8. Tyler Bray, 6-6, 213, Tennessee*
Despite missing half of 2011 with a broken thumb on his right (throwing) hand, Bray showed potential as a tall and lean distributor of the ball from the pocket, capable of challenging even the tightest coverage. He is not a great athlete, even for a quarterback, but he has a rocket arm and would be an ideal fit for a quick-strike passing offense. If he's healthy enough, he could team up with his group of talented receivers to post a big season in 2012.
NFL comparison: Kyle Orton



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...ge-quarterbacks

Matt Barely is listed as 6'2"?

He might be 6'2" on his tip toes, but I doubt that his actual measurement comes back at that. I suspect that he's closer to 6'1" .... if that.

I love how so much was made of RG3's height, and Barely is listed as even shorter ..... but he's a possibility as the top overall pick.

I don't like Barely's height, nor do I particularly like his arm. I think that he is a big time bust waiting to happen, and I feel bad for whoever winds up drafting him.

But what about Barkley?

Yeah ... Barely is who I was talking about.

I am just so glad that he decided to go back to school, because we probably would have wound up with him if he had entered the draft.

That's all well and good, but wouldn't you rather get the show started this year, then 'perhaps' (referenced to the RGIII episode) be in position to Draft a QB next year?

There are 53+ players who would not want to pass their chance at finding out about our QB position this year too. Nor would any of our Coach's and FO/owner.

We the Fans don't get a vote, but you can put me down for finding out this year over next.

I am fine with the Weeden pick as long as they made the pick because of HIS perceived talent and not because of McCoy's perceived lack of talent. Either way I am fine with it if Weeden works out.

Yes, I would rather fix the Qb position THIS year. IF it is fixed. But I would rather wait a year to fix it right than just picking a Qb to replace our current Qb. And if next year comes and there is no Qb that we think will fix the issue then we wait and do it the next year or the year after if that's what it takes.

So one of the first things we hear of him doing after our FO selects him is tell a big lie to the press and fan base and I'm only seeing what I want to see?

I think it's more that many are being selective about what they wish to see and wish not to see.

Completely agree here.

From what I have gathered from various media reports is that he failed two tests at Baylor for marijuana and was released from scholarship and the team after the second failed test. At Utah he failed a test that was separate from the school sanctioned program.

My feeling is that he's probably embarrassed and doesn't necessarily want every man woman and child knowing about the third incident. If you look at what he said prior to the Cleveland media getting it out of him two days ago he was very specific with the denial. When I heard it I thought right then and there that he was sidestepping.

I'm almost certain that the Browns knew it though.

Here's the more important point for me....

When I hear the kid speak, and knowing what I know from his Wonderlic, you can tell that he's an intelligent young man. He's also just now coming through a very depressing time in his life. Because of his stupidity with his pot use he exciled himself from the Baylor program just as it was about to come onto the map. Can you imagine watching from Utah as your best friends go on to greatness? Can you imagine thinking to yourself (may or may not be true) that you were the most dynamic receiver on that team? That you would be on Sportscenter right now instead of on your couch watching it.

That had to be incredibly depressing. Did it cause him to slip yet again? Maybe.

But now he's beyond that. He's in a totally new situation. He's in the NFL with the chance to prove his worth. He got selected in the second round and that team recognized what he has to bring to the table.

Can you imagine how uplifting that must feel?

In my opinion I think Gordon is going to take this chance and run. Hopefully Little and Weeden and Richardson take him under their wing and this offense becomes the most dynamic group since Slaughter and Kosar and Newsome and Mack and Byner.

It could happen. I think it just might.

So he lied.. big deal... I've told my share of lies... things like, "No officer, those empty beer cans were on the floor when I got in the car." and "Honestly, I was just showing the sheep how to do the heimlich maneuver."

Seriously, the kid had some issues but he's on the Browns now so I will root for him and hope he keeps his nose clean.... and hope like hell he is as good as some people think he is.... if he's good and stays out of trouble, this will all be forgotten... if either one of those doesn't pan out, then we wasted a 2nd round pick. Not much I can do about it either way.

I couldn't care less about him lying to the media. What concerns me is 3 failed tests. If he was drafted by the Bengals we would all be laughing at them.

Just realized that this is a Gordon thread. So I won't reply about Qb's in this thread after this post. I am hopeful about Weeden. The question isn't is he an upgrade but is he the answer.

Quote:

---

"The whole time I was in Utah, I never ended up testing positive for any administrative test given by the administrative people there,''

---

That is not a lie.
It isn't being entirely forthcoming, but it is not a lie.

You calling it such is you seeing what you want to see.

I hope he's past it all too, but I have little faith when looking at the progression of things. Baylor...2 fails and suspension.

New start at Utah.... another fail....

Browns draft him...lies about 3rd fail....

If it were just the lie? Just the lie and one fail? Just the lie and 2 fails?

I just wish the fan base would take off those orange colored glasses long enough to admit what a huge risk this kid was after the culmination of everything to be considered here.

Everybody is human and entitled to a mistake here and there, but come on man, this is crazy! As a Browns fan we all want him to succeed, but not to look at the history over time with this kid and say WTH is to me naive at best.

I think it could be that Holmgren's statement that "Lerner talked to him earlier in the summer" about interest in selling the Browns called for some desperation on the part of him and Heckert. And I believe this is a pretty good indication of it.

Quote:

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I think it could be that Holmgren's statement that "Lerner talked to him earlier in the summer" about interest in selling the Browns called for some desperation on the part of him and Heckert. And I believe this is a pretty good indication of it.

---

I agree with pretty much everything you said but this is pure speculation. You have taken two completely unrelated events as far as we know and drawn a conclusion that they are somehow a cause/effect.

It is a risk, it's about time the team took some risks... you don't go from 4 wins to the playoffs with taking some risks and having some things work out in your favor.

Or it could be the case that Heckert was not going to look a gift horse in the mouth and pass on a WR with his potential and I'm sure that the talent pool for next years Draft weighed into the thought process there.

Your correct Gordon is a risky prospect, but he could just as well bring good value for a 2nd rounder if he is able to take over one of the two starting WR spots.

It would not be going out on a limb to say that he could be a bust by way of his past problems, but the kid has a clean slate at the moment and I would like to give him the opportunity to prove his detractors wrong, because there is also a possibility that he will do just that.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Weather or not they had prior knowledge of today's announcements.

pretty much how I see it. If the worse thing the kid did was smoke some weed and tested postive I dont see any risk. Now if he owns a motorcycle then Im worried.
There is no risk in my mind Ricky Williams for the whole draft weed smoking was a risk. This is nothing but either a great steal at the 2nd round or a bust at worst which every teams suffers those at some time or another.

j/c

So he smoked weed in collge and got caught...weed...I give that a big ho hum.

He lied to the media? As if the media deserves to always be told the truth...so they can take the truth and turn around and tell/twist...what...the truth?

I'm guessing HH&S knew the truth right from the start...its a non-story at this point.