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Indians need a LF (still) - Chase Headley could be had from SD?
#gmstrong
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According to Buster Olney, Headley has the highest asking price of ANY player on the market.
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Quote:
According to Buster Olney, Headley has the highest asking price of ANY player on the market.
higher than Justin Upton?
(I can see higher than Greinke & Hamels & most of the other available players just due to the fact they'd be rentals)
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Indians need a LF, a right handed bat, and an ace.
I don't see this team making the playoffs.
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"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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GO BUCS.
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Legend
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I now believe the Indians should be sellers, not buyers, at the deadline. We are not just "a pitcher" or "a hitter" away from being a legit contender. Further, I don't think we have any untouchables. What we have are some core players I'd like to hang onto, but not that many. Brantley, Cabrera, Kipnis, Masterson, Perez, Pestano, Chisenhall, and maybe some of our younger arms like McAlister, Carrasco, and Gomez. Everyone else can and should go. The only problem with that is I have no faith in Shapiro and Antonetti to make effective trades. Maybe they should be replaced by a real baseball man before we do another teardown.
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Saddley
Watching the games, one can go down the line-up and name off 2-3 players that need to be replaced, and at times 1 or 2 that shouldnt be in the majors.
We need a LF, Need a DH, Need 1st & 3rd.
Damon shouldnt even be playing, dont we have a cheaper young kid in columbus that could be brought up to hit .220.
Kotchman, great defense but thats it, way to inconsistant with the bat for what 13 mil a year.
Cunningham, now I know we have somebody in Columbus to replace him. How this guy man a major leauge roster I'll never know.
Hanahan, Love this guy, could be our everyday 3rd baseman, but is very inconsistant with the bat, Great Glove.
Hafner...It's been fun, no need in pointing out the obvious. Thanks your always welcome back...To visit.
Shelly Duncan....Love the heart, but the more he plays the worse he gets, like him as the 4th or 5th outfielder on a team, as long as cunningham isnt the 4th guy.
Ulbano ( Spelling) pitcher we got from Rockies...Somebody was Rockie Mountian High when they said he could be our ACE...Maybe Ace Ventura, sorry if this guy has any value right now, TRADE HIM....Dodgers looking for pitching, I would rather go with some kid in columbus than watch him fumble around the mound again, sorry time to cut ties and get a couple prospects.
Go Tribe
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jc...
What happened to "just enjoying the ride"?
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All Pro
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I agree Cunningham playing at a pro level baffles the hell outta me..If we're playing catch-up in a game I would rather see the pitcher hit in the 9 hole
"Its too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence"
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I agree that we should be sellers. Actually, mostly because there are so few sellers this season that we could get more for our players than in most years.
However, I think the fans would revolt if we sold anything of value (Choo who is only controlled for 1 more year) and so it would be a minor change and not affect things too much.
But, I do trust Shapiro/Antonetti to make trades. It's the one thing that has separated us from the Twins & Royals. We have gotten Choo, Brantley, Asdrubal, Santana, Masterson, etc. all through trades. No, they do not win each trade (no MLB GM does), but they do pretty well there all things considered. Now, if you want to go to the drafting from 2001-2008, then we can talk about how bad things were (and how inexcusable that is for a small market that needs to live/die by the draft).
#gmstrong
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CNNSI disagrees with us Quote:
Cleveland Indians
Record: 47-44
Standings: 3 games out in AL Central, 1/2 game out of WC2
The Indians are once again living off a second straight strong start, but whereas the 2011 team fell fast and hard, this one arrested its descent before the All-Star break and has kept itself in two races. We say "OBP is life," and the Tribe proves it, leading the AL in walks drawn for a .335 OBP (third) that is sustaining an offense (410 runs, eighth) lacking in longball power (83, 11th). Some early-season good work by the rotation was a chimera, as it was largely the result of pitchers with poor fundamentals getting lucky on balls in play. Now, the Indians have allowed more runs than any AL team other than the Twins, and their -30 run differential is a strong indication that they should be selling.
In this case, though, Cleveland can take a good look at going the other way. Unlike many AL teams, it can realistically consider itself to have a shot at both the front and back doors to the postseason. The Indians also have a roster that is somewhat easier to improve than most, strong up the middle and weak on the corners. You'd rather be searching for first base and leftfield help at the deadline than at shortstop.
The Indians also need to look for some bullpen support, and that's always the cheapest and easiest thing to find at the trade deadline. The Indians may not be able to get into the ace-starter market -- they made a big bet and lost a year ago on Ubaldo Jimenez -- but could find themselves in the mix for second-tier guys like Jason Vargas and Wandy Rodriguez. With so many players at their peak ages and relatively weak competition, it's their time. BUY
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/wr...l#ixzz21AHtt1Pu
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Legend
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They might as well sell off these guys, because this team isn't going to get much better. It is what it is.
They refused to get better in the offseason, and I refuse to believe they'll try and do anything before this deadline. What a disgrace. Last in attendance, and rightfully so.
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Legend
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They refused to get better in the offseason, and I refuse to believe they'll try and do anything before this deadline. What a disgrace. Last in attendance, and rightfully so.
please. that's a ridiculous statement.
Pena chose less money to go to TB (and Kotchman has been better anyway)
Beltran chose the Cardinals for the same money (i don't blame him at all)
We wouldn't give Willingham that 3rd year (looks foolish now, but at the time he was a guy who was hitting like Pronk and had a Pronk-penchant for missing games too. I understand now wanting to give him that 3rd year).
And, we did get Lowe from Atlanta. A good solid move. As was recovering at 1B w/ Kotchman (if we weren't going to find a bat, at least we found a glove).
------------------------------
but, even if you don't like those moves and misses, deservedly last place in attendance? you sir, are bat-crud crazy on that one. cmon, the team is among the mediocre-middle on a shoestring budget. look at teams like the Twins, Royals, Ms, Astros, Padres, Rockies, etc. We "deserve" to be worse in attendance than all of those teams?
and, STO's ratings are down more than all but 4 teams (Houston, SD, Philly, Colorado). of course, those 4 teams are all in last place and well below .500(well, SD is in 4th place with Colorado in last place)
yes, I want a LF badly. it's a joke what we put out there each night. but, we are set at C, SS, 2B, and CF, which are usually the toughest spots to fill in the order. that doesn't mean we "deserve" last place in attendance. please.
#gmstrong
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They didn't get better. We keep hearing about how this team is going to do something when the time is right. Instead we get nothing and then hear about how this organization is "ticket driven"
Sorry dude, agree to disagree. It's a disgrace and a slap to the fans of Cleveland. They deserve better than this garbage.
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yeah, we will just have to. we went out and got Ubaldo. big risk. wish we would have traded Pom and Alex for Gio instead.
we could be the Royals who get the media praise and are under .500 every year. plenty of teams are in worse shape.
ah well, doesn't matter. perception easily can become reality. as I've state before, I fully expect the Dolans' to sell the team by 2015 (when the lease expires) and the new owners to give it a 3yr trial (with backdoor dealing) and move the team by 2018 or 2021.
the area doesn't care about the team as much as alot of other cities and very few owners are going to lose money on purpose (see SD. complained about "cheap" owner, got new owner and now complain about new "cheap" owner).
#gmstrong
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The area "doesn't care" about the team because the team has sucked for the past five years and finished above .500 twice in the last decade.
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Legend
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Actually though, the team has started out both last year and this year very well ...... and "fans" still didn't show up.
The Indians have been much better, record-wise, than the Cavaliers or Browns have been.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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People don't see the point in watching this team, knowing in a few years, those players that they get used to rooting for will go on to bigger and better things and win in other cities.
I honestly don't think the Tribe will ever get moved, they're a charter AL member.
I've always blamed both the owner and the league for making an unbalanced league. There is no true salary cap, but some of these owners use that as a crutch to cry foul.
Bad attendance won't move the Tribe. If that's true they never would have made it out of the 80's.
Fans are tired of the 2-3 year window for competing, followed by the 4 year wait for the 2-3 window again. As soon as this team becomes watchable, the clock is ticking.
The NBA is headed down that path too. If Kyrie leaves Cleveland, you'll see the same disinterest.
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Legend
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No one thought the Browns would move either. I don't put anything past anyone anymore. (is that enough "anys"?) 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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No one thought the Browns would move either.
I don't put anything past anyone anymore. (is that enough "anys"?)
Never say never, but there is kind of a stadium less than 20 years old, as well as the fact that the organization is making money.
If a baseball team moves, there's quite a few that will be yanked out of their city before the Indians.
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Legend
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If a franchise is run correctly there should be more than a 2-3 year window for competitiveness.
Trading top prospects for a declining veteran player when your team isn't really a contender isn't smart. Especially if you are a small-market team.
The thing that has killed the Indians more than anything is bad luck. In the Cliff Lee deal they got Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, and Jason Knapp. None of those guys have turned into anything more than bench players.
In the Sabathia deal they got Matt LaPorta, Michael Brantley, Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson. Brantley has had some success in the majors, but is nothing more than an above-average starter.
They got Bryan Price, Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson. Another dud of a trade. Masterson has been somewhat good, but is not an ace by any means.
Many of the players in those trades were supposed to be better than they have turned out to be.
Then there is the whole Grady Sizemore fiasco.
The leading contributor to the Indians stinking over the past few years is bad luck.
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The NBA is headed down that path too. If Kyrie leaves Cleveland, you'll see the same disinterest.
The NBA is there, I'm already bracing for his departure.
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Quote:
Actually though, the team has started out both last year and this year very well ...... and "fans" still didn't show up.
The Indians have been much better, record-wise, than the Cavaliers or Browns have been.
I'm not going to fault anyone for not wanting to watch baseball in 40 degree weather in April. As for this year, while a lot of people saw "first place", some of us saw "average team playing .500 ball in a weak division."
You can't really compare the Cavs and the Browns, either. The Cavs have one if the league's most exciting young players, and football is king in northeast Ohio (and even still, the attendance was down last season).
The Indians also deal in a sport that's losing interest nationally and play the most games. Supply and demand. 45k people just simply aren't going to fill every baseball stadium in America 81 nights a year.
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Legend
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Oakland at some point will move to San Jose (if that counts)
TB really just needs to get a new stadium and they'd likely be fine where they are at.
What other teams? Maybe San Diego? (though if they lose the Chargers to LA they might fight harder to keep the Padres?)
The Indians lease is about to be up. Then, there is a team-friendly series of 3yr leases built into the plan. Whoever drew that thing up was an idiot (and once again shows how business savvy Jacobs really was).
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Padres just got a new stadium and new owners.
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That's a great looking stadium too, I love how they have CF open so you get a nice view of downtown.
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Legend
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Yeah, I have been there a few times. Great location, great stadium, even better city.
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Quote:
People don't see the point in watching this team, knowing in a few years, those players that they get used to rooting for will go on to bigger and better things and win in other cities.
MLB teams have control over their players for 6-8 seasons (depending on what they do with their service time alottments).
How many Browns players were here 6yrs ago? Cavs players?
I think that is a silly crutch of an argument that fans make when MLB does very well to guarantee that teams have their star players through their "prime" years (26-29yo). Yes, many players are still very, very good in their early 30s as well and is one of the big reasons the bigger markets have such a huge advantage. However, I hear people complaining about losing Choo (2006-2013), Asdrubal (2007 - 2014), and even Kipnis (2011-2017) and Santana (2010-2017).
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Cabrera, Kipnis and Santana will be long gone come 2017.
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Legend
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Quote:
The thing that has killed the Indians more than anything is bad luck. In the Cliff Lee deal they got Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, and Jason Knapp. None of those guys have turned into anything more than bench players.
In the Sabathia deal they got Matt LaPorta, Michael Brantley, Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson. Brantley has had some success in the majors, but is nothing more than an above-average starter.
They got Bryan Price, Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson. Another dud of a trade. Masterson has been somewhat good, but is not an ace by any means.
Many of the players in those trades were supposed to be better than they have turned out to be.
Then there is the whole Grady Sizemore fiasco.
The leading contributor to the Indians stinking over the past few years is bad luck.
When does it stop being bad luck and start being poor scouting when you are trading superstars for prospects and NONE of them pan out?
Nobody considered it bad luck when the Browns blew draft pick after draft pick for so many years...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Cabrera will be 32 in 2017 so they probably shouldn't re-sign him when he becomes a free agent.
They should probably be working on extensions with Santana and Kipnis right now, trying to buy out a couple years of free agency. If they don't get them signed to long term deals it is their own fault.
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Legend
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Many of those players were highly regarded by many people when they were traded.
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Legend
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I don't know if I want to extend Santana....dudes a wreck right now. If I were manager, dude would be grabbing bench every night.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Legend
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Many of those players were highly regarded by many people when they were traded.
So were Braylon Edwards, Brady Quinn, etc.... When you trade 3 or 4 legit superstars for 15 players and not a single one of them is better than average and most have never once helped your team at all.... then what's the point.
For 3 or 4 years on here I have heard about building for the future and how letting great players go was all going to pay off in the end.... well, here we are.
yebat' Putin
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Hall of Famer
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Bad trades. Worse drafting.
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Legend
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they already extended Santana. got him for 1 post-arb year (which is why he's signed through 2017 now).
#gmstrong
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Bad trades. Worse drafting.
that's the weird thing. we haven't done well trading big stars (after Colon).
but, when we trade washed up veterans we get guys like Hafner, Choo, Asdrubal, Santana.
heck, we traded O-Cab last year and the Giants gave us a B-prospect in Neal that is doing fairly well for Akron right now. for Orlando Cabrera!
#gmstrong
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How many Browns players were here 6yrs ago? Cavs players?
I know the NFL is different, but I don't feel robbed by the Browns. The Browns have done a horrible job of running their team, and we have banged on them for every bad move. If the Browns raised players as good as the Indians had with Cliff Lee and CC Sabathia, they sure as hell wouldn't let them go. Yes, I know the NFL and MLB are different, but as a fan, why should that matter to me? All I know is key pieces to help my team win a championship were sent off as they approached their prime, and we're left holding the bag, as usual.
You can argue whether that's right or wrong all day, but that's why fans don't show up to these games anymore.
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