DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum MLB - NonWaiver Trade Deadline Approaching

...and yet, we're only 3 games behind the Detroit. You say that like Detroit is up 35 games.

We've played them 7 games this season. Cleveland is 6-1 in those games. So maybe heads up, Kotchman > Fielder.

Pirates lose again and the Reds win again.

Coco blowing the save made things just a little bit sweeter.

Who gets Hanley Ramirez RH, 3B or SS? Baseball tonight said Ramirez is on the blocks and is being shopped heavily. They said Oakland is all in for him. As a tribe fan what would you give for him? Minimum tribe have to give up Chisenhall, McCallister, Max Chisenhall, McCallister, Lindor, and one of these 3 Canzler Phelps LaPorta, and a 1st next year. Would you trade for him RH bat, fills a need at 3B, but you lose your best prospect in Lindor? or would you look at Hunter Pence RH OF who is also being shopped?

You can't trade picks in MLB.

surprised that bigdat hasn't posted yet about Wandy. very good pitcher (and even better at $13mil instead of $30mil over the next 2 years as Houston is picking up the rest of the tab). he's not an ace, but definitely a solid #3 guy to have.

and he was the only Houston pitcher worth anything. it's going to be ugly for them from here on out (smart move for them with the prospects they got, but if you have hitters on your fantasy team and see Houston coming up, you can smile)

if the White Sox get Greinke, then I may have to re-think how I spend my summer nights

just not the day for me w/ MLB. reading an article about how the poor Yankees have had to deal with injuries.

they have lost: 2nd best OF (Gardner), 2nd best hitter & 3B (ARod), top2 in rotation on DL (CC & Pettite), 5th pitcher out the year (Pineda), and their closer (Rivera).

and, because their payroll is ridiculous and that gives them a ton of depth, they still flirt with the best record in MLB.

if the Indians lost the same (Brantley, Kipnis, Masterson, Ubaldo, Gomez, C. Perez) they'd be lucky to beat out the Twins for the basement.

yep, I think they are a sleeping giant (Houston is huge and has a ton of $$$, they should be a good, big budget team. we'll see what the new owner can do about that), but right now they had to sell off the veterans to build for the next few years. Without any semblence of a staff (and up and down youngster bats), they will be terrible this year and next.

How do you view what we got from the CC deal?

Okay, well now consider that GMs are saying it's impossible to get that "good" of a deal for a rent-a-pitcher anymore:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8201996/latest-deadline-dealings-all-eyes-brewers-zack-greinke

best game of the year. 2-0 vs. Verlander, 7-2 vs. Detroit

and man, I don't know why, but Santana's power magically appears when Hafner is healthy, doesn't it?

Grienke-Weaver-Haren-Wilson

DAYYUMM

Good, the Reds don't have to face him anymore.

The magic number now sits at 65, it's never too early.

It will mean nothing if they don't catch the Rangers. Only one of those guys can start a one game playoff.

Nolan Ryan doesn't seem like the type to just throw up his hands when his competition improves itself. I bet Texas makes a run at someone like Cliff Lee, James Shields, or maybe even Ubaldo Jimenez.

I agree with that. I just think that one game playoff is a crap-shoot. Anyone can win one baseball game. The Astros could beat the Yankees on any given day. Baseball is the most random of sports.

What also stinks, is that I think that the team wins the the first Wildcard, either the Rangers or Angels, will have a pretty hefty lead when the season is over. And they will have to play a team that six games back from them in a one game playoff. Yikes.

i like it. gives a true meaning to the divisions.

though, the Tigers, As, or Rays could keep up with whichever of the Rangers or Angels doesn't win their division (not all of them, just 1 of those 4).

or Indians (or any of the other teams), but it's tough sledding right now.

"I'd like to order the filet mignon."

"Somebody just ordered the last filet mignon. All we have is hot dogs."

"But I really want the filet mignon."

"Okay, we can get you one, but it's going to cost about $500 more than it should."

"I'll take the hot dog."

Unfortunately, with 2 teams now ahead of us, I think that it's going to be too much to overcome.

Last year we started out strong, then faded as the starting pitching faded. Same thing this year. We need to add starting pitching in the off-season .... even more than we need a bat.

How much you wanna bet the Indians' FO tells us that getting Carmona back is the same as making a trade for a pitcher? Ditto Grady Sizemore, who is getting ready to go out on a rehab assignment in the next couple weeks. Wait for it.

J/C...

My Pirates won their 58th game of the season last night... in 2010 they won 57 - all year. lol. GO BUCS.

Also read a few rumors today about the Pirates checking in on Choo - the fat lady is definately warming up at the corner of Ontario and Carnegie.

That's the last thing I want to see is the Pirates get the Reds Killer Choo.

Cleveland outfielder Shin-Soo Choo could be dealt before MLB trade deadline; Pirates could offer outfield prospect Starling Marte: Indians insider

Sunday, July 29, 2012, 8:27 PM

By Paul Hoynes
The Plain Dealer


Minneapolis, Minn. -- Shin-Soo Choo is trying not to listen to the trade rumors that have started percolating around him in the past few weeks.

"When I first heard about the rumors, I said, 'Really?' " said Choo. "A few minutes later, I said, 'I can't control that. Why worry about it?' "

The latest Choo rumor has Pittsburgh pursuing the left-handed-hitting right fielder. The bait reportedly is outfield prospect Starling Marte. The Pirates just promoted Marte to the big leagues, and it could be to showcase him to the Indians.

The Pirates, who have posted 19 straight losing seasons, trail Cincinnati by three games in the National League Central. They lead the NL wild-card race.

Marte, 23, made his big-league debut Thursday. Batting leadoff, he hit the first pitch he saw for a home run. Marte, a right-handed hitter, is hitting .222 (4-for-18) in four games for the Pirates.

He put together an impressive year at Class AAA Indianapolis before his promotion. Marte was hitting .286 (111-for-388) with 21 doubles, 13 triples, 12 homers, 62 RBI and 21 steals.

This is Marte's sixth year in the Pirates' minor-league system.

Scouts say he swings at too many off-speed pitches, but they like his speed and power. Some think he could be a 20-20 man (20 homers, 20 steals). Defensively, Marte grades out as a good defender with a strong arm.

Choo will be a free agent at the end of the 2013 season. The Indians have tried to sign him to a multiyear deal without success. With Scott Boras as his agent, Choo seems destined for free agency.

Asked about his contract status, Choo said: "That's why I have an agent. My agent and the Indians talk about it. I don't want to worry about it. It's a big headache.

"Scott has done this a long time. He knows more than me."

The Indians acquired Choo from Seattle in 2006. His goal has always been to play on a winning team, but he's grown frustrated over the past two seasons.

"I keep hoping we'll play better," Choo said before the Indians were swept by the Twins on Sunday. "I just feel bad. Last year, the same thing happened. The first couple of months, we played well and were in first place. Now we're going down at the same time.

"I know we have two months left. I feel like every year is the same situation."

Choo said he was excited after the Indians took two out of three from Detroit last week.

"Everybody knows Detroit is better than us with its pitching and lineup, but we've beaten them," he said. "After we beat [Justin] Verlander, there was a lot of excitement and confidence. We felt we could make the playoffs. . . . But with baseball, you never know."

More trade talk: The Indians, according to Danny Knobler of CBSSports.com, have told teams they'd listen to offers on Justin Masterson. Boston and Texas reportedly had scouts in Minneapolis on Saturday to watch Masterson pitch.

Masterson laid an egg, allowing 10 runs -- eight earned -- on seven hits in 5 innings. The Indians' Opening Day starter is 7-9 with a 4.47 ERA in 22 starts.

On hold? Considering the Indians' dive in the standings, it's unclear how much interest remains, but they have talked to the Cubs about right-hander Matt Garza.

Garza isn't expected to be dealt by Tuesday's deadline because of a sore right triceps muscle. He's not scheduled to pitch before Tuesday after leaving a July 21 start with the injury.

What the Indians find attractive about Garza, besides his talent, is that he can't be a free agent until after the 2013 season. The rebuilding Cubs talked to the Indians about their relievers in the big leagues and minors.

Finally: Acta has heard a lot of trade talk in his career, and it always follows the same theme. "All 30 of those guys [general managers] have read the same book," Acta said. "They always say, 'I want your Corvette, and I want to give you this little Fiat. I'll throw in a Nissan Sentra just to make you feel better.' That's how it starts. That's how they break ground."

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/07/cleveland_outfielder_shin-soo.html

i'd take Marte + a couple B-level pitching prospects for Choo

we're losing Choo after next season and Marte may very well end up being the next Choo.

McCutch + Choo would be a great OF pair.

I'm not a big Choo fan to begin with, To me Do the Deal, but atleast get another arm in the trade, Choo is a average big leauge hitter, and with his agent, he's not coming back, so lets get something now and Marte from what I hear is pretty desent.

Corps players (controlled for at least next 2.5seasons):
Kipnis, Santana, Asdrubal, Chisenhall, Brantley, Masterson, Carrasco, McAllister, C.Perez

Soon to be FA (next 2 years):
Choo, Ubaldo(team-opt), Carmona-Hernandez(team-opt), Joe Smith, Raffy Perez, Kotchman, Damon, Sizemore

So, if we haven't drafted well, signed anyone, or traded well, where did all those players from the first list (plus Choo) come from? And

I agree we haven't drafted well. I disagree we haven't traded well. We didn't do great from the rental trades of CC, Lee and Victor. But, we got at least 1 useful piece out of each that we wouldn't have had otherwise (Brantley, Carrasco, Masterson). Choo, Asdrubal, and Santana also were trades.

What we need to do is make smarter choices in FA. Completely in hindsight, but we missed on Willingham, Cuddyer, and Cespedes this past offseason (I don't think Beltran would ever have chosen us over the Cards just like Carlos Pena took less money to go to the Rays). Making decisions like paying Grady $5mil to not play + Damon $1mil means we could have had one of those guys instead (yes, more money locked down longer term, but those are useful players that would have contributed).

It's not that we completely ignore FA, it's that when we do dip our toe in it, we completely waste our $$ there (Kerry Wood anyone?). If we can stop setting 10-20% of our annual meager roster budget on fire, then we can help ourselves become a more legit competitor.

Actually, Forbes says the Indians are worth $410 million; Dolan bought them for $323 M. I wouldn't mind Lerner buying them - at least we know he's willing to spend some money.

I don't mind trading Choo, because we are gonna lose him anyway, they better get Marte, and Cole or Taillon!


Pittsburgh Pirates Top 20 Prospects for 2012

by John Sickels on Dec 24, 2011 2:20 PM EST

Pittsburgh Pirates Top 20 Prospects for 2012

The list and grades are a blending of present performance and long-term potential. Comments are welcome, but in the end all analysis and responsibility is mine of course. Full reports on all of players can be found in the 2012 Baseball Prospect Book. We are now taking pre-orders. Order early and order often!

QUICK PRIMER ON GRADE MEANINGS:

Grade A prospects are the elite. They have a good chance of becoming stars or superstars. Almost all Grade A prospects develop into major league regulars, if injuries or other problems don't intervene. Note that is a major "if" in some cases.

Grade B prospects have a good chance to enjoy successful careers. Some will develop into stars, some will not. Most end up spending several years in the majors, at the very least in a marginal role.

Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don't make it at all.

A major point to remember is that grades for pitchers do NOT correspond directly to grades for hitters. Many Grade A pitching prospects fail to develop, often due to injuries. Some Grade C pitching prospects turn out much better than expected.

Also note that there is diversity within each category. I'm a tough grader; Grade C+ is actually good praise coming from me, and some C+ prospects turn out very well indeed.

Finally, keep in mind that all grades are shorthand. You have to read the full comment in the book for my full opinion about a player, the letter grade only tells you so much. A Grade C prospect in rookie ball could end up being very impressive, while a Grade C prospect in Triple-A is likely just a future role player.

1) Gerrit Cole, RHP, Grade A: Cole can be enigmatic and sometimes gets hit harder than he should given the quality of his stuff, but he's still a Grade A prospect. At his best he throws strikes with three excellent pitches, and I think he'll get more consistent. Looked great in Arizona Fall League, except for the disaster in the Rising Stars game.

2) Jameson Taillon, RHP, Grade A-: They are being very careful with his workload. As he incorporates his secondary pitches more often and builds his stamina, I expect greater dominance. Still struck out more than a hitter per inning even with restrictions on secondary pitch use.

3) Josh Bell, OF, Grade B+: Switch-hitter, should develop 30+-homer power and a high OBP. Pure hitting skills solid too. We'll have to see about his defense and I want some pro data, but I'm very optimistic about him.

4) Starling Marte, OF, Grade B: Borderline B+. Hit well in Double-A, starting to develop more power, despite poor strike zone judgment. Superior defense. Still raw, needs a year of Triple-A, a wide range of possible outcomes, could become an All-Star, a mediocre regular, or a fourth outfielder.

5) Robbie Grossman, OF, Grade B: If he had fulfilled his commitment to the University of Texas, 2011 would have been his draft year. I know he was repeating High-A, but a player jumping from the college ranks to High-A, hitting .294/.418/.451, then ripping up the Arizona Fall League would be getting an awful lot of praise, not skepticism. I also think that Grossman's tools are better than commonly reported. I expect he'll provide gap power with some speed and a high OBP, and that's valuable.

6) Luis Heredia, RHP, Grade B-: Grading this guy is very difficult. His upside is enormous and he was in rookie ball as the equivalent of a high school junior, but there are so many things that can still go wrong. You can make a case for a Grade A if you look only at projection and potential, but the uncertainty factor is so high, and the history of similar prospects so clouded, that I can't do that with my hybrid upside/sabermetric approach to grading. Keep in mind the explanation of what the grades mean listed above. With proper development he can be a B+ a year from now and into the A-range a year after that. He could also blow out his arm or otherwise fail to develop. Remember Michael Ynoa or, going way back, Jose Pett.

7) Kyle McPherson, RHP, Grade B-: Throws strikes with solid stuff, proved himself in Double-A. Not an ace, but projects as a number three or four starter. We should see him sometime in 2012. Nice development for an unheralded 14-round pick from a non-major college program.

8) Nick Kingham, RHP, Grade B-: Strikeout rate was low in the New York-Penn League, but other numbers were solid, scouting reports are strong, and he's quite projectable. If the secondary pitches develop properly, could become a number two starter.

9) Stetson Allie, RHP, Grade C+: Borderline B-. Grade A velocity, Grade B- secondary stuff, Grade D- pitching skills. Still young with enormous upside, would rank much higher on pure potential but there is more to it than that.

10) Tony Sanchez, C, Grade C+: Not developing as well as hoped and his stock is slipping. Still has potential to develop into an excellent defender with a solid bat, but needs to take a step forward in 2012.

11) Jeff Locke, LHP, Grade C+: Classic southpaw with fair stuff, can succeed as fourth starter if his command is sharp enough.

12) Alex Dickerson, 1B, Grade C+: I like the bat, but as a first baseman the grading curve and expectations are tougher. Grade will go higher if he keeps hitting outside the NY-P.

13) Bryan Morris, RHP, Grade C+: Took well to relief role in Double-A with his power sinker, can be effective middle reliever with some chance to close eventually.

14) Zack Von Rosenberg, RHP, Grade C+: Hammered by homers in the first half, but gave up just two in his last nine starts. Strong K/BB ratio, still has the potential to develop into a mid-rotation starter. 2012 would be his draft year if he had gone to LSU, so it is way too soon to give up on him.

15) Zach Dodson, LHP, Grade C+: Pitching time limited by a broken hand but he was effective when on the mound. I like his delivery. Breakthrough candidate.

16) Rudy Owens, LHP, Grade C+: Stock down following difficult season in Triple-A, but still a prospect. Not as good as he looked in 2010, but not as bad as he looked last year. Could rebound and still has a shot at being a fourth starter.

17) Justin Wilson, LHP, Grade C+: Very live southpaw arm, command was spotty in Triple-A but has good stuff, could be impressive in bullpen or sneak into fourth starter role if control sharpens up.

18) Clay Holmes, RHP, Grade C+: Ninth round pick got first round money, number two starter upside but we need to see how secondary stuff and command respond to pro instruction.

19) Jose Osuna, OF-1B, Grade C+: Hit very well in rookie ball, good power, approach is more refined than typical for his age. Defense is limited. Stock could be much higher next year once we get higher-level data.

20) Jordy Mercer, SS, Grade C: Hit 19 homers and 30 doubles in Double-A/Triple-A. Defense at shortstop is solid and he can also play third and second with skill. Age (25) and shaky plate discipline hold back his grade, but with some adjustments he could be a surprise major league contributor this year. Keep an eye on him.


OTHERS: Nate Baker, LHP; Colten Brewer, RHP; Jake Burnette, RHP; Ramon Cabrera, C; Colton Cain, LHP; Jarek Cunningham, 2B; Matt Curry, 1B; Tyler Glasnow, RHP; Eleyvs Gonzalez, 3B; Matt Hague, 1B; Alen Hanson, INF; Gorkys Hernandez, OF, Phil Irwin, RHP; Yamaico Navarro, INF; Davydas Neverauskas, RHP; Gustavo Nunez, INF; Mel Rojas, OF; Adalberto Santos, OF; Duke Welker, RHP.

The Pirates have a clear and consistent strategy in recent drafts: dump lots of money into pitching, with an emphasis on overslot deals in the middle rounds for projectable high school arms. So far it hasn't paid many dividends, but it wasn't expected to do so quickly: it is a long-term strategy.

Recent first-round picks Gerrit Cole and Jameson Taillon could both develop into number one starters, as could Mexican prodigy Luis Heredia. Cole is the most advanced of the group (as you would expect from a college pitcher). Personally I like Trevor Bauer a little better, but I can understand why the Pirates went with Cole and he's certainly a Grade A guy. Taillon did just fine in Low-A, but Heredia could develop into just about anything, including nothing.

Stetson Allie was hugely disappointing last year, but it was just his "freshman" season. Other overslot high school guys like Kingham, ZVR, Dodson, and Cain have provided mixed results. All could thrive, all could still fail. The 2011 draft brought in another group headlined by Clay Holmes, but again, it is just too early to know how they will pan out.

With all the emphasis on the young guys, Kyle McPherson gets lost in the shuffle but he'll be ready to help soon. Morris, Locke, Owens, and Wilson will all get trials within the next year and one or two of them will turn into something good. I also want to point out two of the Grade C guys as sleepers, control artist Phil Irwin and sinkerballer Duke Welker. They don't get much attention but both have a chance to contribute something interesting, especially Irwin, who lacks plus stuff but never walks anybody.

Hitting is much thinner. Josh Bell should be excellent, but he's at least three years away. Starling Marte and Robbie Grossman give additional hope for the outfield. If you could combine Grossman's approach with Marte's tools, you would have a superstar, but last I checked such genetic experimentation is illegal. Jordy Mercer has several sleeper attributes.

This list might disappoint Pirates fans, but there is a lot of upside here on the pitching side. Keep in mind that grades are all shorthand. They have invested a lot in pitchers who haven't had time to do much yet or have been moved forward slowly.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/24/2659666/pittsburgh-pirates-top-20-prospects-for-2012

Asking Price For Masterson: Two Position Prospects And A Pitching Prospect
By Matt Loede

CLEVELAND (92.3 The Fan) – If teams want to pony up for Indians starter Justin Masterson, the price is going to be very steep.

Jim Duquette of MLB.com and MLB Network Radio is reporting that the Indians are asking for quite a bit if they are going to move the pitcher that was slated to be the “ace” of their staff in 2012.

The price the Indians want is as follows: two position prospects as well as a pitching prospect. The price may be heavy, but the Indians don’t want to give up on the guy they felt would lead the staff this season.

The 27-year-old is making $3.8 mil this season, this after making $468,400 in 201. The Indians have spoken about a long term deal with Masty, but so far have not make progress on a long-term deal.

Masterson came to the Indians back at the trade deadline in 2009 for catcher/DH Victor Martinez from the Red Sox. Oddly enough, the Red Sox and Rangers are two of the teams that were reported Sunday to be in the mix to be scouting him.

In his last outing on Saturday, Masterson was pounded against the Twins, allowing 10 runs on seven hits over 5.2 innings. This season Masterson is 7-9 with an ERA of 4.47.

web page

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Lets face it. There are two ways to build a team. Buy 'em or build 'em. We already know that Dolan probably wouldn't spend money on a smoke detector for his grandchilds room much less a major league who could have helped over the last two years while we were in contention. So, we have to build it.

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Part of building it is being able to keep the good pieces you do have long enough to fill in around them. If everytime you are out of the race by the all-star break you trade off a couple key pieces, you can't build anything.