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Or mix up the old Molotov cocktail. Mix in caustic agent like Drano, and you make it even worse. hell, seal then up tight with nails in then.
If someone wants to hurt people, they can always find a way.
This guy evidently boobie trapped hos apartment, and maybe his school as well. He was out to hurt a lot of people.
Exactly right. It was this guy that wanted to hurt people.
Guns are as much of a cause of this as spoons are the cause of obesity.
#GMSTRONG
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I agree that if someone wants to do something horrible, they're going to do it.
Strict gun laws, sure, but what reason would a gun store have to turn down this guy? He had no prior history that we know of. What more can you do?
It's frightening.
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This is a sad day indeed...my thoughts and prayers are with the famlies.
Its insane what this world is coming too. its mind-numbing.
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I agree that if someone wants to do something horrible, they're going to do it.
Strict gun laws, sure, but what reason would a gun store have to turn down this guy? He had no prior history that we know of. What more can you do?
It's frightening.
Funny how no one has any comments on my quoted and highlighted comment. Guess it doesnt fit the agenda
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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just clicking
for discussion
The kid was a neuroscience major that graduated with highest honors that was a candidate for a PHD; On paper seems to be an ok 24 year old.
He goes into Bass Pro Shops and buys 2 of the guns. All legal; then he goes into another gun store in the metro area and buys 2 more guns. Legal
He orders online and has delivered on 2 day ship the gas mask, ballistic vest, leggins, throat protector on July 2. They said tonight that it was all legal to buy online.
Then at some point he goes online and orders 6,000 rounds. I believe they said tonight that he bought 3,000 rounds of .223 and 3,000 rounds for the glocks. Either on this purchase or the July 2 purchase, he picks up a drum magazine also.
Until he walks into that theatre, it does not seem like he broke any law.
There are many people that have multiple guns and tons of ammo and other stuff.
What else can be done from stopping a lone wolf who wants to make a name for himself?
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also,
if someone wants to listen to the archive of the police scanner traffic, Denver Post online has the archive. It is chilling.
You have to work the balance of your speakers because the fire is on the left and police on the right and it is almost impossible to listen to them both at the same time.
First police car was on the scene in about 20 seconds after the call went out.
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It is almost impossible to stop 1 man determined to kill people.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Obama administration is undoubtedly the most hostile administration to gun ownership in US history
Where does FOX come up with this stuff?
The guy is wrapping up his first term, and hasn't made a single push for gun ownership restrictions. The biggest gun related move he's made was to sign a law that allowed loaded guns in national parks.
I have a friend who's an NRA member. He loathes Obama, but can't understand his friends paranoia regarding Obama and guns, especially since Romney has a much worse record when it comes to gun control.
This came from an opinion column from Fox,com. This has not been said by any of the news shows. I'm just pointing this out because the 24 hour news channels are so blurred between opinion and news.
I am glad that both President Obama and Mitt didn't try to use this for political gain today. There will be a time for a discussion but it isn't before the bodies are buried.
#gmstrong
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It's only 30 mins from coloumbine. They should have never made the Columbine folks famous.
What's that supposed to mean?
It's supposed to mean this individual probably expects some fame, it means fault has to go to the media coverage also this kind of thing looks like what is found in video games like grand theft auto.
( in another example, in a couple of years ago some kids were doing something involving an overpass, which made me think,, yep just like what's on GTA, in another example, yesterday, a police officer had her car stolen by a suspect, stuff found in GTA, )
I don't ask what kind of person would do something like this, anyone could.
I ask , why does this society glorify this, .. these punks.
You want to stop this ( refering to the mass shootings here) from happening as often, do this. period.
Step one, when someone does something like this to people or a group of people who are minding their own business completly, like example
DC sniper, Malvo, example of minding own business, victims were pumping gas.,
So, example here, people minding their own business, watching a movie.
When someone does something this extravagant as an act ( which usually brings fame) to people who are minding there own business, and it's so obviously pre medated and intentional as this case, ( not like maybe driving a vehicle into a crowd while haveing a stroke behind the wheel)
You execute him before sundown. Honestly you have such a quick trial and exhaust appeals, that this son of a gun finds himself on death row before he knows what his cell number is, you don't even publish this punks name, and you put him in the front of the line for the death penalty, and schedule his execution so fast they don't have time to cook his last meal.
You do that and this kind of stuff is going to happen less often.
The only right way to respect the lives of the innocent people is to execute the obvious perpetrators of these kinds of acts. Swiftly and painfully too.
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Quote:
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The Obama administration is undoubtedly the most hostile administration to gun ownership in US history
Where does FOX come up with this stuff?
The guy is wrapping up his first term, and hasn't made a single push for gun ownership restrictions. The biggest gun related move he's made was to sign a law that allowed loaded guns in national parks.
I have a friend who's an NRA member. He loathes Obama, but can't understand his friends paranoia regarding Obama and guns, especially since Romney has a much worse record when it comes to gun control.
This came from an opinion column from Fox,com. This has not been said by any of the news shows. I'm just pointing this out because the 24 hour news channels are so blurred between opinion and news.
I am glad that both President Obama and Mitt didn't try to use this for political gain today. There will be a time for a discussion but it isn't before the bodies are buried.
Just for the record, both sides are already politicizing this including a certain mayor I shall not name. But definitely expect this to be mentioned throughout the year.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Or mix up the old Molotov cocktail. Mix in caustic agent like Drano, and you make it even worse. hell, seal then up tight with nails in then.
If someone wants to hurt people, they can always find a way.
This guy evidently boobie trapped hos apartment, and maybe his school as well. He was out to hurt a lot of people.
Exactly. Guns didn't do this. A nutjob did this.
When are people going to quit trying to blame things other than the person?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Out of all the victims the 4 month old baby really bothers me. Not trying to say that the others who lost their lives doesn't bother me.
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Anyone that thinks gun control laws could have or would have prevented this, or any future incident, is absolutely high as a kite and not connected to reality. Delusional.
If someone wants to kill a ton of people, they're going to kill a ton of people. You will NOT stop them. You likely won't even be able to make them alter their plans or choice of weapon.
People need to stop thinking that you can legislatively create some type of Utopian society. It simply isn't possible as long as Humans keep getting plugged into the equation.
All it does is needlessly restrict the 99.999% of the population that can and do act responsibly.
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prp...What about the rights of the 12 dead and 71 wounded?
Who speaks for them?..
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OMG, give me a break with the Oscar-worthy Drama act.
Tell me where what I stated is wrong. Leave the wanna-be tear-jerker drama and emotion out of this - show me where I'm wrong.
prp...your take on the situation...that nothing can be done, so just move on...
...I do not share that position and I believe I made it clear, I would rather my fellow gun owners try to be part of a solution, rather than a do nothing group of lemurs who follow the NRA over the cliff.
Like I said, at some point, the masses will far outnumber the gun owners and they could take care of the gun issue in a way we gun owners regret. I would rather see gun owners be part of a solution, rather than part of the problem, but hey, that's just me !
We don't know all the details yet about how this coward acquired his guns and ammo so it's a little soon to know if all the current laws were followed. I've heard it reported that the guns were legally purchased but there is some question about 6k rounds of ammo purchased over the internet...again, "reported, not confirmed yet".
I happen to believe that Americans have a right to go to the movies without fearing for their lives because some idiot with gun is having a bad day. If it means tighter security in movie theaters...that would be one idea. But I cannot accept the fall back position some choose to use that "there is nothing we can do".
That is where you and I differ in opinion, prpl.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
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The Obama administration is undoubtedly the most hostile administration to gun ownership in US history
Where does FOX come up with this stuff?
The guy is wrapping up his first term, and hasn't made a single push for gun ownership restrictions. The biggest gun related move he's made was to sign a law that allowed loaded guns in national parks.
I have a friend who's an NRA member. He loathes Obama, but can't understand his friends paranoia regarding Obama and guns, especially since Romney has a much worse record when it comes to gun control.
This came from an opinion column from Fox,com. This has not been said by any of the news shows. I'm just pointing this out because the 24 hour news channels are so blurred between opinion and news.
I am glad that both President Obama and Mitt didn't try to use this for political gain today. There will be a time for a discussion but it isn't before the bodies are buried.
Just for the record, both sides are already politicizing this including a certain mayor I shall not name. But definitely expect this to be mentioned throughout the year.
I read about that Mayor.  I stayed away from the news coverage for the most part because I didn't want to here senators and representatives playing politics over this.
#gmstrong
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CleveSteve - just what is it that you believe your numbers state or validate?
Here's what I see.... more people in the US kill people than in the UK, but more people in the UK end up using different tools to do it.
Here's a thought for you before you answer, however - If you somehow believe that their gun control laws are the reason for the lower murder rates, you're completely high.
Well, look again. From those numbers, taking away all firearm murders (I.e. Assuming they didn't happen, or just considering non-firearm murders) and we outnumber them about 2:1.2... which is actually pretty comparable.
If you look at the murder rates of the UK and Japan, which I posit are the countries most like ours which prohibit firearm ownership, it is completely laughable. You say it would only make things worse for law-abiding citizens if they were illegal with no evidence, then I present data which suggests otherwise, and I'm "completely high."
I usually respond when people make outlandish broad claims that don't make a lit of sense and are not based on data, like YT, daman, and Jules' claims that drano, gasoline, and airplanes are bigger risks to public safety than assault rifles.
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What is an assault rifle?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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First, I essentially agree with your analysis of the UK and US statistics. However, using both the UK and Japan as comparisons has many deep flaws. MUCH smaller population and geographic area, and much less diverse population, particularly in the case of Japan.
Also, neither of those countries has, as a foundational principle, the right of the citizenry to be armed.
The public safety issue would be interesting to compare, gasoline accidents kill quite a few folks. Airplanes crashing into large buildings can be extremely effective. The Oklahoma City bombing used commonly available ingredients. A Chlorine gas dispenser is an extremely simple WMD.
Huge error referencing an "assault rifle". The AR-15, as purchased, is NOT an "assault rifle". It may "look like" a "military-style" rifle, but those people would have been no safer if it "looked like" a watermelon. That rifle is NOT fully automatic, therefore it is NOT an "assault rifle". It is a rifle, period. Small caliber, cheap ammunition that is in fact well-suited to shooting cans off a fencepost. The recent, so-called "assault rifle ban", which did nothing of the kind, DID make it illegal for such a gun to have a bayonet mount. The lack of a bayonet certainly made people safer in this case, right?
That law DID ban large-capacity magazines, but apparently these whackos have plenty of time to reload. Not sure if this guy had illegal mags, or not.
There are two ways to go to try to solve this kind of problem, once you understand that there is no dependable way to weed out the whackos. You either increase the power and/or the effectiveness of the police, or you increase the power and/or the effectiveness of the citizens. Consider the economics of having two or more police officers at every public gathering place. Next, consider the effect on the whacko if he or she KNEW, beforehand, that roughly one in every ten people in that crowd was packing heat, and had been required to take regular target practice.
Yep, the crowd and the smoke is a problem. However, from a crouched or prone position, with the whacko virtually the only person standing upright, the upward angle should minimize the odds of hitting bystanders. Say that somewhere between victims #5 and #6, you take three shots, take down the whacko and kill two bystanders. 8 dead bystanders and one dead whacko, compared to 12 dead bystanders and one live whacko. The math works for me.
Let's take this concept a bit further. Say you are a trained police officer. Are you obligated, or required, to take this shot? Is this not your duty? Now, if you are not a cop, why is it that you are so totally dependent on someone else insuring your safety that it has not even crossed your mind to take any action at all to ensure that safety?
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There is lot's that can be done. Some of us just don't want to follow the company line and give away our rights as citizens.
You don't want guns. I don't want many in this country to be able to vote.
Guess what, nothing is going to change. Guns are here to stay, so you and Steve might need to look at other means to stem the violence.
Let's pull up the stats on who is using all these guns in a illegal manner, then maybe we can get to the root of the problem when it comes to violence in this country.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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CleveSteve - just what is it that you believe your numbers state or validate?
Here's what I see.... more people in the US kill people than in the UK, but more people in the UK end up using different tools to do it.
Here's a thought for you before you answer, however - If you somehow believe that their gun control laws are the reason for the lower murder rates, you're completely high.
Well, look again. From those numbers, taking away all firearm murders (I.e. Assuming they didn't happen, or just considering non-firearm murders) and we outnumber them about 2:1.2... which is actually pretty comparable.
If you look at the murder rates of the UK and Japan, which I posit are the countries most like ours which prohibit firearm ownership, it is completely laughable. You say it would only make things worse for law-abiding citizens if they were illegal with no evidence, then I present data which suggests otherwise, and I'm "completely high."
I usually respond when people make outlandish broad claims that don't make a lit of sense and are not based on data, like YT, daman, and Jules' claims that drano, gasoline, and airplanes are bigger risks to public safety than assault rifles.
Then look up how many people died on 911 and you'll have your airplane data. Then look up the nut job that blew up the Oklahoma building with fertilizer in 1995.
So I dont think they are outlandish claims but fact. If someone wants to kill a mass of people a gun is only 1 way to accomplish that out of many and gun laws do nothing to stop them.
As I posted before disarming a free nation is the only way to ensure that the gov can become a tyranny. People who dont understand the 2nd admendment rights forget how this countries forfathers had to fight for our rights to our freedoms which now our gov every day wants to take away and does which is because they can brain wash people into thinking they know whats best for us.
I say hog wash I have the right to be free and not a slave.
I have the right to own land and I have the right defend life and property.
I have the right to bear arms.
I have the right to vote against all those that would try to take those rights away.
sadly most of our rights are taken day by day by judges that write law behind a bench ruling on matters not consistant with the law but their interpitation of it and then other judges use that to establish precedent and freedoms are lost.
Im sure you mean well but the UK used to be the gov here and if they had the gun laws you speak of you would be bowing and paying taxes to the queen right now instead of being free, never forget that each and every person in this country is the only defense we the free people of America have against a president that would do us harm on day if he so desired. (although sadly our military could take over this country via a military coup with hardly a whimper now from our citizens).
:steps off soapbox:
just for fun "Im nickbrownsfan and I approve this message" 
Last edited by NickBrownsFan; 07/21/12 11:04 AM.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Then look up how many people died on 911 and you'll have your airplane data. Then look up the nut job that blew up the Oklahoma building with fertilizer in 1995.
OK, so over the past 18 years, each of those things have happened once. Guess which wins?
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Im sure you mean well but the UK used to be the gov here and if they had the gun laws you speak of you would be bowing and paying taxes to the queen right now instead of being free
Oh yeah, I forgot that we won our freedom from the British with our assault rifles. It wasn't tactical superiority or French naval assistance that won it for us, it was assault rifles.
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As I posted before disarming a free nation is the only way to ensure that the gov can become a tyranny.
I'm sure there have been several presidents over the past 50 years who have thought "I'd sure like to use the military to nullify the constitution and enslave my constituency, but they've got those pesky assault rifles."
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sadly our military could take over this country via a military coup with hardly a whimper now from our citizens
WOLVERINES!!!!!
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your data shows only handguns as the means not rifles which are a much more effective weapon. So because handguns are the most used weapon when dealing with deaths/homicides I would imagine that the amount of people killed in those 2 incedents are higher then all the rifle murders combined over that same time period. As everyone has said before its not the guns that kill its the person pulling the trigger.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I agree that if someone wants to do something horrible, they're going to do it.
Strict gun laws, sure, but what reason would a gun store have to turn down this guy? He had no prior history that we know of. What more can you do?
It's frightening.
Funny how no one has any comments on my quoted and highlighted comment. Guess it doesnt fit the agenda
I defend your right to have a gun(s).. I believe you and I should be allowed to possess weapons of that nature..
I do not believe in my heart of hearts that had a person, properly trained with a weapon and carrying a Carry Conceal Permit would have done a lick of good in that situation, in fact, from what i can tell, with all the smoke in the building, I doubt anyone, no matter how well trained, could have gotten to him without endangering the well being of innocents thus making the entire situation worse.
I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at or even if you are a gun enthusiast at all.
Point is, Gun Control has no bearing in this conversation. the man that did the damage was of age to buy weapons and he used them. For all I know, he bought every weapon legally.
Owning guns shouldn't be the issue, what people do with them should be.
Was that the response you were looking for, or did I just open myself up to a truck load of crap......
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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You have an excellent grasp on the subject matter at hand. Thank you. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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It's not just handgun data, it is firearm data. The data I posted was in reply to the claims that firearm control legislation would not decrease, but possibly increase violence. While I've heard these claims before, I've never heard any fact-based information to support them. I was providing some data to the contrary hoping people may at least consider why they hold the position they do.
The only thing I've questioned the need for personal ownership of is assault rifles. I still am interested in knowing what the purpose of them is aside from killing a lot of people quickly.
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IT WAS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE.
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J/C I only seen one person make a reference to this and I pretty much read every comment on this board. How is it that the mother said and I quote " You have the right man. I need to call the police" are you kidding me! Where does this come from? How many on this board could have a son do this and make that comment? I would wager "0". I have made comments in the past about parental responsibility but who on here can argue against my comment in regards to the mothers comment 
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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It's not just handgun data, it is firearm data. The data I posted was in reply to the claims that firearm control legislation would not decrease, but possibly increase violence. While I've heard these claims before, I've never heard any fact-based information to support them. I was providing some data to the contrary hoping people may at least consider why they hold the position they do.
The only thing I've questioned the need for personal ownership of is assault rifles. I still am interested in knowing what the purpose of them is aside from killing a lot of people quickly.
Then I will once again quote the article I posted before that explains it even though you dont think its possible or even entertain the thought of it happening.
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The UN sponsored effort is a direct assault on the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The founders made it very clear that the Second Amendment was designed to give the right to bear arms to all citizens to keep the federal government from becoming tyrannical. In iron fisted global governance, however, gun control is essential to keep citizens from defending themselves.
This is the reason a person would need them. Also as posted above it wasnt an assult rifle. Do me a favor and look up the stats for Switzerland's gun laws and crime rates. I think you will see that gun control isnt the issue at all.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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What is the AR-15? Just an automatic rifle? Just change "assault rifle" to "combat rifle" and I still wonder.
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What is an assault rifle?
Sorry jf, didn't mean to ignore your post, just didn't see it before.
As posted above, I am probably using the wrong nomenclature. I'm referring to automatic rifles in general... 18- to 30- round magazines whose purpose is to unload a lot of ammunition in a short period of time.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 07/21/12 12:32 PM.
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First, I essentially agree with your analysis of the UK and US statistics. However, using both the UK and Japan as comparisons has many deep flaws. MUCH smaller population and geographic area, and much less diverse population, particularly in the case of Japan.
Also, neither of those countries has, as a foundational principle, the right of the citizenry to be armed.
The public safety issue would be interesting to compare, gasoline accidents kill quite a few folks. Airplanes crashing into large buildings can be extremely effective. The Oklahoma City bombing used commonly available ingredients. A Chlorine gas dispenser is an extremely simple WMD.
Huge error referencing an "assault rifle". The AR-15, as purchased, is NOT an "assault rifle". It may "look like" a "military-style" rifle, but those people would have been no safer if it "looked like" a watermelon. That rifle is NOT fully automatic, therefore it is NOT an "assault rifle". It is a rifle, period. Small caliber, cheap ammunition that is in fact well-suited to shooting cans off a fencepost. The recent, so-called "assault rifle ban", which did nothing of the kind, DID make it illegal for such a gun to have a bayonet mount. The lack of a bayonet certainly made people safer in this case, right?
That law DID ban large-capacity magazines, but apparently these whackos have plenty of time to reload. Not sure if this guy had illegal mags, or not.
Nelson, thanks for the post. Looks like there were a few I didn't see. (Posting from phone)
About 10,000 firearm murders per year in the US. Do we have that many "whackos?"
I'm interested in general as to why people think the murder rate (and murder by firearm rate) in the united states is so much higher than most other "first-world" countries.
You are correct that the UK and Japan are more ethnically homogeneous societies than ours in the US, but they are both "first-world" democracies which elect legislators and executives. They embrace much of our culture (television, sports, movies) and we theirs (music, video games, television). I won't put words in your mouth and say you think the murder rate is so much higher here because of our diversity of heritage, but if it was a factor, wouldn't an out-of-proportion portion of it be directed from an ethnicity towards a different ethnicity? I don't think the statistics back that up.
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what you have is a system in place that doesnt put any fear in the criminal for commiting these crimes. Here is something to read from the UK. Link Quote:
Criminals must be scared of going to court, says the country's most senior judge
Criminals should be "frightened" of going to court, the most senior judge in England and Wales has said, signalling a new tougher attitude towards sentencing.
By Christopher Hope, Home Affairs Editor
6:27PM GMT 05 Nov 2008
The comments echo a speech from Justice Secretary Jack Straw last week, who insisted that punishing criminals must be the main factor in guiding sentencing policy.
In his first criminal justice speech since taking over as Lord Chief Justice last month, Lord Judge of Draycote said: "The guilty defendant should always be frightened of the prospect of going to court."
He continued: "The paramount consideration in every sentencing decision is the safety of the public and the reduction of crime.
"When criminal activity is proved the sentence must address the defendant's punishment as well as the public interest in his reform or rehabilitation.
"The objective of the sentence is to do justice appropriate to the individual who has committed the particular crime or crimes in the light, not only of its impact on the community at large, but also the direct consequences for the victims."
Legal sources signalled that the comments were the most outspoken by a lord chief justice for years.
Lord Judge also used the speech to the University of Hertfordshire to stress that judges must be free from political pressures when sentencing offenders.
Praising the "the cold neutrality of the impartial judge", he said: "The overwhelming beneficiary of the principle is the community.
"If the judge is subjected to any pressure, even unconscious pressure, his judgement is flawed, and justice is tarnished."
The Tories welcomed the intervention. Shadow Justice Secretary Nick Herbert said: "People will welcome straight talk about the need for punishment and deterrence.
"The problem is that we have a Government which won't play its part. Judges hand down their sentences, but when Ministers then release prisoners early, public confidence in justice is undermined."
Last week Mr Straw admitted that the Government had too often concentrated on the needs of offenders.
The needs of victims are too often lost in "a fog of platitudes and debate over the 'needs' of the offenders'', he said.
In a speech at the Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce, Mr Straw said the Government needs "to reclaim the language of punishment and reform''.
He said: "Sentences of the court are first and foremost for the punishment of those who have broken the law, broken society's rules. And with reform.
"The word implies an obligation on behalf of the offender to make an effort to make amends.''
That was from 2008. Until we stop trying to make worthless people better people and restricting the good people you end up in an endless cycle.
I could have 16 ak-47's and 20 m1's and never hurt a soul however one wack job with an agenda could kill hundreds with store bought items if they so desired.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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Quote:
ChartIn Switzerland, annual homicides by any means total
2010: 53
2009: 51
2008: 54
2007: 51
2006: 60
2005: 75
2004: 79
2003: 73
2002: 86
2001: 86
2000: 69
1999: 89
1998: 76
1997: 87
1996: 83
1995: 82
CompareRate of Homicide per 100,000 People (any method)
ChartIn Switzerland, the annual rate of homicide by any means per 100,000 population is
2010: 0.70
2009: 0.67
2008: 0.710
2007: 0.7
2006: 0.8
2005: 1.0
2004: 1.1
2003: 1.0
2002: 1.2
2001: 1.2
2000: 1.0
1999: 1.2
1998: 1.1
1997: 1.2
1996: 1.2
1995: 1.2
1994: 1.3215
Number of Gun Homicides
ChartIn Switzerland, annual firearm homicides total
2010: 40
2009: 55
2008: 18
2007: 35
2006: 34
2005: 48
2004: 57
2003: 47
2002: 68
2001: 47
2000: 40
1999: 72
1998: 66
CompareRate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People
ChartIn Switzerland, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is
2010: 0.52
2009: 0.72
2008: 0.24
2007: 0.46
2006: 0.45
2005: 0.64
2004: 0.8
2003: 0.6
2002: 0.9
2001: 0.7
2000: 0.6
1999: 1.0
1998: 0.9
1994: 0.5816
Switzerland's data shows that their murder rate is much lower than ours (similar to the UK's) and committed almost exclusively by firearms.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 07/21/12 01:08 PM.
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The AR-15 is a SEMI-Automatic rifle, it is no more a "combat" rifle than any other rifle.
Gun fatality numbers usually include criminals killed by armed citizens, and also by police officers. They do not include armed citizens who have protected themselves or their property, and prevented a crime without killing anyone.
A large percentage of gun crime occurs within a particular ethnicity. Compared to the other two countries, we have a much larger and more diverse geography to cover, multiple large cities, large wilderness areas, and a history of solving problems with gunfire, as opposed to swords or navy ships.
We also have a lot more guns, largely because many of us believe we not only need them or have the right to own them but also have a fundamental responsibility to be secure in our persons and in our homes.
I go back to putting a cop in that theater and does he take the shot? Then, if so, why not you? If not, do you wait until 10 or 15 are dead? 20, 30? At what point do you stop doing Nothing and start doing Something?
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Those numbers are provided as "firearm homicides."
Regarding all the comments along the lines of "if someone wants to kill people, they will kill people," "he just wanted to kill as many people as possible, we're lucky he only used guns," and "there are much worse killing agents readily available than guns," then why do so many people choose guns when given the choice?
I think it may be the fact that guns offer a certain amount of detachment from the situation. All you have to do is point and click and it's over. It's not like a knife where you have to forcefully stab someone (maybemore than once), or a Molotov cocktail as suggested before where you have to stuff the rag, light it, and heave it at someone, or an explosive device where you have to go through the effort of building it, setting up the firing mechanism, planting it, then walking yourself to safety and waiting for the right time to pull the trigger. It's very quick and easy. Not much time for thought... not much need for conviction. Pop... Next. Pop... Next. Pop...
If there are 10,000 firearm homicides per year, how many strangulation homicides are there?
What are your ideas?
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Here's the thing about gun control that the anti-gun folks don't think about.
Who is going to give up their guns when mandated to do so? The law abiding citizens, the criminals, everyone???
If you think you can just recall all firearms and the problem is solved, then you are living an illusion.
Gun ownership is growing in America, and Colorado is pretty gun friendly state, THAT is probably why this guy went with the gear he did, he was concious of the idea that there could be people in the theater able to shoot back, he obviously had no intention of getting himself killed.
He had every adavantage in this situation to limit his victims ability to fight back, I'd bet that was all in the plan.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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jc I've been thinking about this whole thing for a while now. This guy was a neuroscience major. He spent his time and his career goals studying the mind and how it works. The mind has to be a crazy thing to study. You probably uncover many things that go deep beyond the common persons understanding. He probably lost touch with reality. If anything good comes out of this, we need to get whatever information (scientifically) that we can about his state of mind before this guy goes strait to hell. It's odd because that could may as well been what he was studying through his academic career. My prayers go out to the victims families. 
oioioioi
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Quote:
a history of solving problems with gunfire, as opposed to swords or navy
This is interesting... maybe the relative youth of our nation and the persistence of guns throughout it's history may play a part in that. Not sure why the overall murder rate is so high, though.
Quote:
A large percentage of gun crime occurs within a particular ethnicity
It's very difficult to not at least bring this up. It's somewhat complicated, though. The three largest ethnic groupings in this country are whites, blacks, and Latinos. Forgive me if my terminology offends you. While I'd say there is a significant portion of the Latino community which carries a cultural identity from it's Latin American roots, I'd say the cultural identities of the vast majority of white people and black people in this country are, though varied, uniquely american. For example, I bet that the self-identification of most black Americans has much more to do with American culture than African cutlure from any nation, just as my identity is much more American than it is Polish or Romanian.
While we do have more ethnic diversity than just about any culture in the world, I don't know that there's a good metric for determining that to be a source of our high violent crime rate. I may be incorrectly assuming you were not talking about white Americans when you mentioned "a particular ethnicity" but columbine, this theater event, Oklahoma city, the unibomber, the branch dividians, and iirc the Atlanta Olympic bomb were all carried out by white Americans. There are more white Americans than any other ethnic group, so these incidents aren't really a statistically-significant observation anyways.
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Quote:
Who is going to give up their guns when mandated to do so? The law abiding citizens, the criminals, everyone???
If you think you can just recall all firearms and the problem is solved, then you are living an illusion.
These are good points.
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You don't understand guns and are afraid of them ... got it !
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j/c For those of you who say that gun control is the answer, I pose a question to you.
If some lunatic is planning a heinous crime such as a mass murder, at what point do you think he is going to obey gun control laws, or any law for that matter? All he has to do is drive to the ghetto and buy some guns on the black market.
It always gets me when pro-gun control people think that murderers are going to follow gun laws. All gun control laws do is give power to criminals while putting law abiding citizens in a position of not being able to defend themselves.
In any case, it is highly unlikely that any politician will take on the NRA and win, so I doubt the laws will change much.
And as far as that "assault rifle" it is a semi automatic weapon, not an automatic weapon. It does not spray bullets. You have to pull the trigger for each shot. It is no different than my target shooting pistol other than a larger clip.
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