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If they don't say anything by the end of our 3rd preseason game, I'm calling BS on this entire situation.
Who wrote the PFT article, Florio? I don't know if he's much more reputable than Grossi, but Grossi is a bottom-of-the-barrel journalist in my books. I wouldn't be surprised if absolutely nothing came of this.
I've heard rumblings they're waiting on the results of a follow-up test, not much reason to report anything until that... I'm still hoping it's just blowing smoke for a story.
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Well, Grossi better be right for his own sake. If he breaks a story like this and there's nothing to it, the Browns ought to ban him from any coverage whatsoever. Whoever he works for gets their press credentials nullified.
With that said, I just can't help but believe there is something to the story. For grossi's sake, there'd better be.
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Quote:
... For grossi's sake, there'd better be.
For our sake, I don't care about Grossi's sake. I hope he's crazy wrong.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Could the manner it was used matter?
Follow me here....
I believe if you are caught with pot, cocaine or some other recreational drug you are placed in counseling and are subjected to additional random screenings. But no suspension for occasion 1. If you're popped again you're suspended.
If you're caught with performance enhancers you are suspended immediately.
Maybe Haden is trying to say he took it as a recreational drug and wants go go to counseling for it.
Maybe that's why it's been a while for the NFL to speak up about this.
Just a thought.
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It is my understanding that the league isn't allowed to comment on substance abuse issues per the CBA. Therefore, Haden can say whatever he wants to, and the league will not say anything other then the suspension stands or doesn't. Quote:
But since the league says nothing publicly about the reason for a suspension imposed under the NFL policy regarding anabolic steroids and related substances, the player who is suspended can say whatever he wants — and the league never will correct the record.
PFT
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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And I always thought Joe was a stand up guy..... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...rds-with-coach/Joe Haden removed from practice after “heated words” with coach Posted by Mike Florio on August 22, 2012, 11:31 AM EDT Joe Haden AP Bad news tends to come in clusters for the Browns. Fresh from the revelation by Warren Sapp that former Browns coach Bill Belichick wanted to draft Sapp in 1995 — and Sapp’s proclamation that the team never would have left Cleveland if that had happened — cornerback Joe Haden has been removed from practice after exchanging “heated words” with coach Pat Shurmur. Per Tony Grossi of ESPNCleveland.com, Haden was pulled from the field roughly 30 minutes into practice, because it was believed he was being “too rough” with wideout Travis Benjamin. Grossi reports that Haden had been warned about pulling jerseys, and that he eventually dragged Benjamin to the ground in a red zone drill. Then came the exchange with Shurmur, and off went Haden to the showers. After practice, Shurmur refused to discuss the situation. “I’m not gonna talk about it,” Shurmur said. “That’s between me and the player. I have a great deal of respect for Joe. If you want details, you’re going to have to find it on Twitter. My only apology is that I used bad language and the fans were here to see it.” Shurmur, who according to Grossi was “testy” on the topic, spoke generally about the issue of being careful but effective in practice. “I think it’s important that we practice smart,” Shurmur said. “You have to be able to practice at game speed [without tackling]. I want all of our guys to make it to the horse race. Everything I do, all my thoughts, revolve around our players and our team. I told the guys that.” Haden reportedly is facing a four-game suspension for violation of the league’s policy regarding steroids and related substances, for taking Adderall. It’s not known when the internal appeal process will be finalized.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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2nd String
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I don't worry too much about a single incident... especially when you don't know the details. Two normally level headed guys can get into heated argument. Down the line they discuss it rationally and all is forgotten. You never know.. maybe Joe or Pat was just in a mood that day. It happens to the best of us.
Now, if it becomes a reoccurring thing, then it's an issue.
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Florio is a dolt. The Sapp thing is just stupid.
The Haden thing - it's an issue only if it happens again.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yeah - how was the Sapp thing relevant at all?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I've always liked Sapp but isn't he the one that came out and said that Jeremy Shockey was behind the Bounty gate scandal information leak? I am sure I remember him saying just that on the radio, which proved to be false.So I am not sure how credible he is.
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Quote:
Yeah - how was the Sapp thing relevant at all?
The whole Sapp thing is stupid and has nothing to do with this. His job as a media person is to stir the pot and get people to read and listen, then come back. Florio likes to take something irrelevant and try to make it into some story.
I just get a little irked that they reportedly have told him numerous times to ease up on the tackling and physical practice, but he continued to do so. Sounds like my kid.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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probably showing off a little on the last day of training camp....
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This doesn't belong in this thread. It's just a camp incident. Of course PFT WANTS everyone to immediately think of the possible suspension . . . Quote:
Yeah - how was the Sapp thing relevant at all?
It's a harmless bit of sarcasm and poking fun at Sapp, who's mouth is almost as big as his ego.
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Not at all concerned with this. Far more concerned with the pending suspension...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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I remember playing baseball growing up and yelling at my coach during a heated part of a scrimmage. He thought I should do one thing and I was frustrated with how I was playing and yelled back at him.
About an hour later, we talked for a second about it, and it was forgotten.
My guess is Haden didn't like Shurmur yelling at him, Shurmur has to assert himself (which I think is totally proper) as the Head Coach, and that's that. I have a feeling it's already been dealt with and forgotten by now.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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All Pro
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In Haden's defense, it probably didn't take to much to drag Benjamin to the ground. Might as well toughen the kid up before the regular season hitting starts 
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Be more impressed when Shurmur Asserts himself on Game day ..
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play that got Haden kicked out of practice at first glance, it looks harmless. in slow motion, horse collar take down in a no tackle drill.
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I thought a horse collar was up around the neck/shoulder pads. This was a grabbed jersey in the middle of the back. Not sure of how many times he had been warned, but that didn't look worthy of being booted out of practice.
#gmstrong
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I'd be a lot more concerned if Benjamin had gotten hurt on the play.
You got beat by a rookie, Joe. Suck it up and deal with. Don't take it out on him.
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Thanks for the video, if only to show that it was a pretty nice pass from Weeden to Benjamin.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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i think in the comments someone mentioned it's a great way to blow out a knee.
but before this play happened, Haden had already been warned so I guess this was the final straw.
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Quote:
Thanks for the video, if only to show that it was a pretty nice pass from Weeden to Benjamin.
really nice and benjamin didn't have to stop and wait on the ball 
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Legend
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I don't blame Shurmur at all. We don't need another injury.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Yeah, I agree with that - no need to injure our own players. I am assuming, as has been stated, that this was the final straw after several warnings for tackling when he wasn't supposed to.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I thought a horse collar was up around the neck/shoulder pads. This was a grabbed jersey in the middle of the back.
The rule was amended to include the back of the jersey. It also says that it must be in pursuit in the open field and must bring the player immediately to the ground in order to be considered a penalty.
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#gmstrong
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That's great news! At last we hear about a little fire showing up at camp. It's not like Haden is getting kicked off the team. He's just being an aggressive jerk, you know, a defensive back? Good for him as long as he doesn't hurt a team mate. Let Shurmur yell and get his blood pressure up.
How much longer until the head knocking counts for real?
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Quote:
I don't blame Shurmur at all. We don't need another injury.
Totally agree. In addition to that, the team can get into trouble (fined, docked draft picks, etc.) if there's tackling without full pads on. It was the best thing for the team.
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Legend
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Quote:
You got beat by a rookie, Joe. Suck it up and deal with. Don't take it out on him. ùbr />
Along these lines, I'm concerned with Haden not becoming the player we think he can be. He constantly holds and commits PI. It looks like he does it in practice as well as the games. I don't see teams shying away from him. You never hear stories about him working on his craft. He comes across as a guy who thinks he can get by on his athleticism alone.
My prediction is he is going to be a huge disappointment his year. I want him to be Revis-like but I just don't see that type of ability.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I hope you're right. I'd like to be wrong on this one. But when you're drafted #7 overall you should easily be a top 10 corner in the league and Haden gets beat way too much for that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Rookie
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Name 10 better
Last edited by MFS04; 08/22/12 03:36 PM.
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Quote:
Name 10 better
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/06/24/cornerbacks-the-pack-chasing-revis/
This article does a good job naming most of the best CBs in the NFL and highlighting some strengths and weaknesses (Joe is included along with 10 others). They left off Brandon Carr for some reason though (he needs to be included).
Where Joe ranks among this group is TBD.
#gmstrong
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Joe is a feast or famon type CB. Takes a lot of chances and guesses quite a bit. He gets beat like a rented mule on one play and smothers his guy the next. I don't really think any QB is afraid to throw at him but throwing towards Sheldon Brown on the other side is almost ALWAYS a gimmy. Sheldons best move is to watch the receiver catch the ball and try to strip it or hope for a tipped pass. 
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My biggest concern with Haden is that, kind of like you said, it seems sometimes he relies on his speed a little too much. Seems to me (and I am TOTALLY uneducated in the ways of the CB) that he is "ok" with getting beat because he feels he's fast enough to catch up and break up the pass. Again just the way it looks sometimes.
That being said, I think he's a stud and will be a shutdown corner.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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he's not a "play-maker" in that the QB has to worry about him intercepting it as much and taking it to the house like they do with a Charles Woodson or Antoine Winfield (probably the 2 biggest gamblers in the NFL).
i don't know that he really is that risky of a CB though. he does try to anticipate and will guess wrong on occasion but that happens to any CB. he held WRs to under 50% completion last year, which is very good (and largely due to his ability to get his hands on the ball without being called for a DPI).
I view him at this point like a Carlos Rogers in that way.
#gmstrong
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The other things that hurt Haden are our poor run defense. It's much harder to play corner when the down and distance almost always favors the WR... the other thing is our inconsistent pass rush.
Having a front 7 that can consistently stop the run and get pressure on the QB is a corners best friend.
yebat' Putin
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J/C,
You never like to hear about team mates in an altercation, but this is actually a good sign, because I think that Benjamin is going to really frustrate some CB's with his speed.
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Quote:
And I always thought Joe was a stand up guy.....
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...rds-with-coach/
Joe Haden removed from practice after “heated words” with coach
Posted by Mike Florio on August 22, 2012, 11:31 AM EDT
Joe Haden AP
Bad news tends to come in clusters for the Browns.
Fresh from the revelation by Warren Sapp that former Browns coach Bill Belichick wanted to draft Sapp in 1995 — and Sapp’s proclamation that the team never would have left Cleveland if that had happened — cornerback Joe Haden has been removed from practice after exchanging “heated words” with coach Pat Shurmur.
Per Tony Grossi of ESPNCleveland.com, Haden was pulled from the field roughly 30 minutes into practice, because it was believed he was being “too rough” with wideout Travis Benjamin. Grossi reports that Haden had been warned about pulling jerseys, and that he eventually dragged Benjamin to the ground in a red zone drill.
Then came the exchange with Shurmur, and off went Haden to the showers.
After practice, Shurmur refused to discuss the situation.
“I’m not gonna talk about it,” Shurmur said. “That’s between me and the player. I have a great deal of respect for Joe. If you want details, you’re going to have to find it on Twitter. My only apology is that I used bad language and the fans were here to see it.”
Shurmur, who according to Grossi was “testy” on the topic, spoke generally about the issue of being careful but effective in practice.
“I think it’s important that we practice smart,” Shurmur said. “You have to be able to practice at game speed [without tackling]. I want all of our guys to make it to the horse race. Everything I do, all my thoughts, revolve around our players and our team. I told the guys that.”
Haden reportedly is facing a four-game suspension for violation of the league’s policy regarding steroids and related substances, for taking Adderall. It’s not known when the internal appeal process will be finalized.
He is a stand up guy.
Quit trying to make this something it isn't.
I actually like it when a player forgets practice rules and instinct tells him to try to break up the play.
I wish the whole roster had Joe's attitude.
We'd win more than a few games.
Little man playing in a big mans game. Just think if big man had little mans heart and desire?
Seriously.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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