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Mac,
The reason for the years of futility is mainly due to not having a credible GM that knew what he was doing? Our first 5 years had promise but put us in cap hell. Then the next couple, Phil Savage proved that he was not a miracle kid but a coffee fetcher for Ozzie Newsome. So not we finally have a guy( Heckert) that might be able to draft our way to a point and hopefully, Holmgren can find some other FA pieces. By next year, it will be apparent that we will have to get some FAs to take the next step!!
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I see this year as the last year of the rebuilding phase for sure. Next year the foundation will be layed and we can begin the actual building which will would actually fit into the 5 year plan and at any point next year and into the future years we can make that jump to contender.
My mind tells me we will win between 3-6 games this year and mostly it will fall on the coaching, as much as the players, which side of 5 we slide.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
Quote:
There's a reason everyone picks us to be dead last not only in our division but in the league. I think 6 wins would be a huge accomplishment for this crew, and that would cause the boys in Vegas to lose money, hehe.
Just ommitting Rubin and Taylor is one thing (your opinion, which I strongly disagree with) but now you don't even got your facts straight...Vegas line is at 5.5 season wins...I'm not sure their jaw would drop if we win 6 since it's pretty much where they EXPECT us to end up....and since Vegas knows that all those clever Toads read way too much ESPN insider (you should have saved your money long ago with those hacks) and put too much stock into their expert opinions setting the bar 5.5 seems to be begging for UNDER money, which in turn means Vegas likes us to win 6+ and probably has us as an up and comer
Yea, you got schooled 
Dj, please don't write in such a way that it creates a mental image for me of you being this 80-year old smoker in a fidora camped out on the front row of the Horseshoe's Pit in Vegas smoking Pall-Mall's, sucking down Beefeater and Soda's, and yelling at Flea-biscuit on the big-screen as he blows your Quinella. 
My target isn't the fan who is expecting 10 wins, but rather the articles which are a flower of imaginary light in a field of realistic darkness, hehe.
For the record, as first noted by Fl, I omitted Rubin, who is a solid pro. Omitted by accident, not by slight. However, I would ask Fl why he included kickers and/or punters and mid-round rooks in the "talent infusion." Dude, C'mon
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
However, I would ask Fl why he included kickers and/or punters and mid-round rooks in the "talent infusion." Dude, C'mon
Because they are a part of every team and we have two very good ones with Dawson and Hodges.
As far as the mid rounders go ... I could care less where they are drafted if they make this a better team by adding depth we lacked, then how can that be a bad thing?
The point I was trying to make Toad was the fact that we are building the roster and we have weeded out a lot of dead weight in the process.
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Legend
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Legend
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j/c
I'm excited to see this team because it seems so different in composition from what we've had. I except more losses than wins, but I'm also looking forward to seeing some spirited play from such a young team.
For me, it won't be how many games they lose, but the manner in which they take the loss. Do they fight to the bitter end, or do they roll over midway through the 3rd quarter? Do they take it to a team when they find themselves ahead, or do they retreat into a shell, allowing a come-from-behind heartbreaker? Do they show up poised, professional and prepared?
What I'm hoping for is a team consisting of individuals who learn during this season, and show real improvement. That will give me the base knowledge I need to assess their chances for the seasons to come.
For once, I'm actually intrigued and excited, without worrying about the final record.
Feels kinda liberating, you know?
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Clem, I think that we're on the same page ... only you just have a better way of saying it. "Spirited Play" I think hits the head of the nail here 
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I'm excited because I know the previous version of our offense didn't work and wasn't going to work.
We take the good parts of the old offense and replaced the bad/talent lacking parts with young, more talented, potentially better parts and you have a legitimate reason for optimism.
For whatever reason I've usually been on the opposite side of the expectations people on this board harbor. I've had to be the voice of reason to temper out of line expectations.
Now...
I'm on the opposite side of expectations again. I actually think we're going to do better than most expect. I don't get the doom and gloom. I expect that we're going to have some facepalms and pick 6s from time to time on offense. But youth is a two edged sword. I expect dynamic plays and times where our athleticism on that side of the ball shows itself in dramatic ways.
I know we're going to win at least 6. I think 7 is about right. It would not shock me in the least if we won 8 or even 9 games. The AFC is as bad as I can remember. Our division is as weak as it's been in more than a decade. I see both the Steelers and the Bengals pulling back and the Ravens while solid are not the juggernaut they've been in the past.
We're going to be ok this year. And fun to watch. If we can go 2-3 in the first five games I think we're going to make a run for the wildcard this year.
I've been right for years. I think I'm going to be right once again.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
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I'm with you Heldawg. I am usually optimistic, but I have tried to temper it this year, after being let down over and over. But the reality is, this team, as bad as the offense was last year, was in many games to the end. They lost some heartbreakers on fluke plays like the Bengals debacle. They played spirited ball, and almost beat Pittsburgh. They were physical and showed a lot of heart. All of this while being ridiculed by many of their own fans who refused to look at the situation they were in with the lack of an offseason and new philosophies on both sides of the ball.
They are young, but every year young players prove they belong. We definately have a lot of rookies playing key roles, but I see talent. Not guys that USED to be good, but players that WILL be good. I am very optimistic about the WRs. I think Heckert and crew did address the position efffectively, even though many thought he did nothing.
The past few years the Oline has become a priority, and as many of us begged for years, it has been built, IMO. the right way. These guys are growing together and that is huge. Continuity on the Oline is huge.
I, too read all the ....we won't win two games........toughest schedule......too young.....and all the other negative comments, but feel they come more from the history of this team, to what actually is happening.
I don't have a number of wins thought out. Mainly because I am a firm believer that SOS before the season is not accurate. Teams improve and decline from year to year. Injuries happen, and players move from team to team. By not going the FA route, I believe they are fielding a team that will be together for years. That is how winners are built.
I've waited many years for this team to build a winner. Only to watch piecework attempts. I think Lerner brought in Holmgren to right the ship so he could sell it. I also think Haslam sees that the proper plan is in place. I will remain quiet about how I feel they will do, but from what I am seeing, I like you believe people are going to be surprised.
I think after this year, the league is going to have to find a new whipping boy.
#gmstrong
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If the OL can run block the way I believe they can and if Richardson is as good as I believe he is, the Browns will surprise a few people. The passing game, I expect to be up and down with the young QB and young receivers but I think it can be effective enough.
We have to get off to quick starts and make teams play catch up which is something we were horrid at last year. Did we ever score a td in the 1st quarter? lol seriously
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Not sure on this but I believe we didn't score a TD in the first OR third quarters till Week 11.
If there was ever a signal that we needed an offensive coordinator that'd be it.
And while I'm there....Shurmur would you please hand over the playcalling duties. You stink. And whoever calls the plays, lose the timidity. It's a game. A game! Try to do something I don't know...industrious?!?
The 3 yard curl, the 5 yard flag routes and the draws on 2pt conversions need to go the way of the dodo.
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Quote:
Quote:
However, I would ask Fl why he included kickers and/or punters and mid-round rooks in the "talent infusion." Dude, C'mon
Because they are a part of every team and we have two very good ones with Dawson and Hodges.
As far as the mid rounders go ... I could care less where they are drafted if they make this a better team by adding depth we lacked, then how can that be a bad thing?
The point I was trying to make Toad was the fact that we are building the roster and we have weeded out a lot of dead weight in the process.
Hmm...Okay. I didn't read it that way, but okay.
I suppose I don't put much stock in the added skill of mid-round selections because of the probabilities of their individual successes. As for the kickers, as much as I've backed Dawson over the years, you gotta admit it's hard using them to buoy the opinion that we've improved the talent level of the team.
As weird as this may sound, I believe the entire fate of our offense falls on the shoulder of two guys: Lauvao and Pinky. If they can't show great improvement and get it done, Richardson can't get his, defenses don't have to cheat up, the receivers won't have as easy a time getting off coverages, and so Weeden won't get the easy man and zone coverages he'll need to succeed with that big arm of his. He'll have to read complex coverages that he's never seen in his life, and he won't have time to make those reads.
Yup, I think our guards are critical...for once.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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No disagreement here... but it's a "shot out of left field" for most fans to get their heads behind.
I think I get what I think you're saying, but correct me if I'm wrong:
These guys not only have to block the conventional stuff, but also have to be aware of the delayed blitz that will occasionally stream through their gaps.As a result, they not only have to maintain thier footwork for conventional coverage, but also have to be able to break off standard protocol, and at least chip the oncoming rusher as he plows through the "hole."
This requires not only a "lock-down" on base skills, but an awareness of field activity as the play progresses. It's the special player who can do both...and our current crop of OL guards haven't yet shown that duality to be a strength..... do I get you right about this?
If I get you right, then here's what I have to say about it: You're absolutely right. Opening holes for a HB or providing 2.5 seconds worth of pass protection is one thing... being an effective 'every down' interior lineman is another game altogether. The first example will win you a possession or two, per-game. The second will win you a playoff berth.
It's true: on paper. we look much beter than we did last year.... BUT: the proof will be in how well these guys execute for 60 minutes, week-in, week-out.
By Game Six we'll know what we have for the future, as far as the OL goes (providing there are no injury substitutions...) .
I only hope that we dn't have to spend early mid-round picks to shore up the trenches, That would signify that our previous pics haven't panned out- and that we're farther behind than we thought.
It really does begin and end with The Big Uglies... don't it?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Anyone realize that we are starting 4 college left tackles on our offensive line? Couldnt help but thinking last week was probably the first time in his football career that Pinkston was asked to pull.
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Legend
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Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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Quote:
I'm excited because I know the previous version of our offense didn't work and wasn't going to work.
We take the good parts of the old offense and replaced the bad/talent lacking parts with young, more talented, potentially better parts and you have a legitimate reason for optimism.
For whatever reason I've usually been on the opposite side of the expectations people on this board harbor. I've had to be the voice of reason to temper out of line expectations.
Now...
I'm on the opposite side of expectations again. I actually think we're going to do better than most expect. I don't get the doom and gloom. I expect that we're going to have some facepalms and pick 6s from time to time on offense. But youth is a two edged sword. I expect dynamic plays and times where our athleticism on that side of the ball shows itself in dramatic ways.
I know we're going to win at least 6. I think 7 is about right. It would not shock me in the least if we won 8 or even 9 games. The AFC is as bad as I can remember. Our division is as weak as it's been in more than a decade. I see both the Steelers and the Bengals pulling back and the Ravens while solid are not the juggernaut they've been in the past.
We're going to be ok this year. And fun to watch. If we can go 2-3 in the first five games I think we're going to make a run for the wildcard this year.
I've been right for years. I think I'm going to be right once again.
+1 I couldn't agree more. Cincy isn't usually good two years in a row. A year of film on a marginal QB and coaches will find ways to defend him. Pittsburgh is learning a new offense and their line still sucks. I think the Browns have a good chance of beating them twice this year. The Ravens defense has to start showing its age eventually, doesn't it? Suggs is a huge loss. Our offense will be a lot better this year. Mistakes will be made but it will be a fun year.
The first game against the Eagles is crucial. They are going to have to pin their ears back if they want to win but I think they can.
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Yup, Clemmy, it truly does begin and end with the Big Uglies. Two guards who didn't play well last year are the guys in the spotlight. They'll have to be better and we have to hope Schwartz gets it quickly, especially with a statue back there.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Quote:
I believe the entire fate of our offense falls on the shoulder of two guys: Lauvao and Pinky.
But...they are only guards.
I don't know how many times I have heard that...lol
I agree. If your guards suck, it doesn't matter how good your tackles are. You won't be able to run the ball and the QB is going to have somebody in his face.
If they can't pass block, expect to see Weeden break his hand after hitting it on someones helmet while throwing the ball.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Actually Dawson and Hodges where already here. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but they are both pretty solid and I put them in the category of the handful players we've built on that where here already.
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