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I don't think that it's harsh at all. I don't see it... I do not see him being a productive QB for us at the very least until the 2nd half of this season.
I see a kid with talent and maturity, but things are still too fast for him and he is getting outplayed by a large margin by Colt McCoy.
And if Weeden were playing against second string competition and Colt against first string competitiion, I think you would see the roles reversed here.
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I *REALLY* hope he proves me wrong and makes me eat those words, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
He's had some nice throws in pre-season, but he's been a flash-in-the-pan. You get a nice one, then there's a regression.
While we agree that this offense won't look good until the second half of the season, it seems our reasoning varies.
We have rookies in two of our top 4 WR's, a rookie RT, a rookie RB and a rookie RT.
And then there's Pinkston and Lauvao but that's for yet another discussion. LOL
In just this last game against Philly I saw 2 crossing routes to Little. One, Little stopped his route short and Weeden threw as if he should have continued that route.
The very next time, same route, same WR....... Weeden threw as if Little should have stopped the route short and Little continued the route.
The chemistry, timing and rythym of this team, and that includes the QB position.... Will not flow until such time as these guys develop some sense of continuity.
That's simply not going to happen right out of the gate with so many rookies at the skilled positions. The raw talent is at least here now to have some hope this thing will start clicking on all cylinders.
But how that talent develops and how much time it will take for things to get fluid is still a mystery. But for anyone thinking we're going to see much of that the first four or five games, I think they're setting themselves up for a huge disapointment.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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hey Case. sorry about the competition with Ash. bad offseason for the family. anyways, if you want to grab a beer downtown Austin, let me know. welcome to the board 
 For those who may be confused, that's a reference to the UT football team where Colt's little brother couldn't even beat out this bum named Ash for the starting QB job. Mac Brown may be collecting huge paychecks but his program is floundering. He shoulda walked away a couple of years ago.
Gents, are y'all really arguing with a Texas fan who doesn't even know who Weeden is, evident by the inability to even spell the guys name? Some Colt fanboy registered just to stir the pot and we're giving him the stage.  If he isn't the definition of a Troll then the concept doesn't exist.
'Peen: Sage advice. 
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Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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At least in this offense I agree.
I think the kid could be a successful starter in a different system, or with greater knowledge of this system to the point where he could manipulate the offense, or the way the defense plays to his advantage.
But, what he needs is a different system, one like the offense Brian Daboll ran that was pretty successful for him.
I feel like if Colt had about 3-4 years in the system he could do amazing things with it. To make up for his inconsistency with the deep ball, he'll need pinpoint knowledge of the system and what defenses will do to him to avoid their pitfalls.
One thing that he will need to do is become consistent on that deep ball though. He needs to be able to throw that ball exactly where he wants downfield.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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We have rookies in two of our top 4 WR's, a rookie RT, a rookie RB and a rookie RT.
How many right tackles are we starting? 
yebat' Putin
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We have rookies in two of our top 4 WR's, a rookie RT, a rookie RB and a rookie RT.
How many right tackles are we starting?
Not to mention that McCoy would have loved to have all those rookies over the vets he had in those positions last year.
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Colt was better than Wheeden in college
Colt is better than Wheeden now
As far as the future, Colt is a few years younger than Wheeden
Colt McCoy gives the Browns the best chance to win right now. Handing the job to Wheeden without a competition was absurd. I lost quite a bit of respect for Shurmur, not that ive ever thought he was more than a mediocre head coach. Why cant the Browns get better head coaches?
Shrumur did name him the starter, but that was the idea this FO and Coaching staff had when we Drafted him with the 22nd selection.
Singling out the Head Coach is an unfair criticism imo.
Welcome to Dawg Talkers Message Boards.
Oh! and btw, Coach Shrumur has had nothing but good things to say about how Colt McCoy has not only progressed, but also how he has handled himself threw adversity.
All im saying is dont hand the job to the rook right at the start of camp. That sets a very bad tone throughout the team. It's not good for Wheeden or anyone else. Make him compete for the job, even if it is slanted to his favor
They were pretty dismissive on where Colt McCoy's spot on the team is. They had no problem telling McCoy that he would have to compete for the #2, even after he had to suffer through last season and the crappy "talent" that surrounded him on offense and the predictable 90s scheme that defenses figured out so easily. Yet they cant tell Wheeden that he has to compete? Yes that is absurd.
Perhaps Shurmer wants a scapegoat for his offense struggling, instead of looking at himself and the teams inability to put playmakers on the field, he wants to put in on Colt. Hopefully, he wont be doing the same thing with Wheeden after this season, but chances are that he will. If people think that this team can win more games with Wheeden at QB, they are delusional. (They are going to need a QB without stone feet with the supporting cast that they have) It's quite a vicious cycle in Cleveland
thanks for the welcome btw
Last edited by LbOhio; 08/29/12 02:03 PM.
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Weeden, dude, Weeden. Not WHeeden...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We have rookies in two of our top 4 WR's, a rookie RT, a rookie RB and a rookie RT.
How many right tackles are we starting?
I don't know yet exactly. So far just one. But the season hasn't even began yet. My guess is at least two and maybe three before the season is over. But only one at a time.
But ya got me....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We have rookies in two of our top 4 WR's, a rookie RT, a rookie RB and a rookie RT.
How many right tackles are we starting?
Well, he is kinda large. Would easily make two of me.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Colt was better than Wheeden in college
Colt 2009: 70.6 comp %, 7.5 AVG/PA, 27 TDs, 12 INTs in 470 PAs
Weeden 2011: 72.3% , 8.4, 37 TDs, 13 INTs in 564 PAs
Bye, bye "argument" Mr.McCoy 
If you think comparing stats in a vacuum without context is enough to compare players, then you are lacking in football acumen. I guess according to you, BJ Symons is the greatest QB to ever play the game.
McCoy had excellent stats in his career. He even led the team in rushing one year (can Wheeden do that?), but its not just about stats. Look at what happened to that Texas team after Colt McCoy left. Everyone knew that when he went out of the NC game, that they had zero chance to win. The next season, Texas had virtually the same team coming back outside of McCoy and Shipley, and they went 5-7.
Anyone who states that Weeden was better in college than Colt McCoy either doesn't follow college football, is being disingenuous, has an agenda, or is clueless about the subject. I dont know which category you fall under, but in no reality was Wheeden a better player in college.
Anyway, as far as right now, who would you say gives the Browns the best chance to win games this season. Be honest.
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Anyway, as far as right now, who would you say gives the Browns the best chance to win games this season. Be honest.
Weeden without a doubt. It's not even close. Not even a debate.
If you follow the bouncing ball it's also the message the team is sending to the fans and the league and anyone who wants to pay attention ... the same cut throat league where results are the only thing that matters between being employed and out of a job.
McCoy is not a professional QB.
I can't believe more people can't see this.
I hope he gets traded SOON. There are going to be all kinds of people like you at the stadium booing Weeden every time he makes a mistake, and I think that is unfortunate.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Anyway, as far as right now, who would you say gives the Browns the best chance to win games this season. Be honest.
The first half of the season maybe McCoy. Over the course of the entire season and going forward from there?
Weeden.
McCoy started 13 games last year in this system and Weeden has had zero starts in this system. Once Weeden gets up to speed, the better and stronger arm wins out.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Anyway, as far as right now, who would you say gives the Browns the best chance to win games this season. Be honest.
Weeden.
Defenses are not scared of McCoy throwing down field and they stack 9 in the box. McCoy has happy feet and looks to run first or dump off to the safety valve. I mean McCoy is the only QB I've seen that can go 3 of 3 on a drive and still go 3 and out. He doesn't throw the ball down field enough.
Weeden is a rookie and is going to make mistakes but in the long run he has waaaaay more upside than Colt McCoy. The pass he made in the Philly game where he was almost sacked and stepped up in the pocket and threw a pass splitting 3 defenders for a large gain to MoMass......McCoy can't make that throw in his dreams. If he tries it's pick 6 but more likely the moment he felt pressure he would have been off running trying to make a play with his feet.
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I hope he gets traded SOON. There are going to be all kinds of people like you at the stadium booing Weeden every time he makes a mistake, and I think that is unfortunate.
I heard many people say this wouldn't happen but it is and it will.
And after all, we live in a marketing world.
The new owner won't be having that. That's why so many teams tade away their former starters at almost any price.
Because many of the fans in the stands don't really know the game big picture and make a pubic insult out of moving forward.
The best possible scenario would be to keep Colt.Problem being you'll have too many doing exactly as you say and for a public corporation, that's an image they will quickly resolve.
If people really think Colt is the answer....... If they really want to see him have a shot here?
The best thing they could do is shut up and let things play out. Because the louder they get, the quicker the odds are McCoy leaves Cleveland.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Weeden, dude, Weeden. Not WHeeden...
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I hope he gets traded SOON. There are going to be all kinds of people like you at the stadium booing Weeden every time he makes a mistake, and I think that is unfortunate.
Rubbish. Why should Weeden be treated any differently than any other QB around here. If he sucks, he'll get booed. If he ends up being good (or better), he'll be beloved. That's pretty much how it goes. 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Rubbish. Why should Weeden be treated any differently than any other QB around here. If he sucks, he'll get booed. If he ends up being good (or better), he'll be beloved. That's pretty much how it goes.
Yeah, holcomb was SO MUCH BETTER than Tim Couch!
This fan base is notoriuous for creating QB contraversies and so many love Colt. He's a good kid and hard not to like.
That's half the problem here. They won't just be booing Weeden, they'll be calling for Colt.
I'd say by week 3, if that long, it'll be one helluva mess.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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LOL... this fanbase is no different than any other group of fans who've had to put up with years of inept play at the QB position. They ALL want to see the backup when starter sucks game-after-game.
Hopefully, Weeden won't suck. ::shrug::
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
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So you're saying the fan base would rise up in support for Wallace? I don't think so........  With all these rookies things aren't going to start out at record pace. That would be next to impossible and this FO knows it. It's going to be a mess in the stands and if you say the same thing would happen by week 3 or 4 if Colt weren't here? Then we simply disagree.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Anyway, as far as right now, who would you say gives the Browns the best chance to win games this season. Be honest.
Weeden.
Defenses are not scared of McCoy throwing down field and they stack 9 in the box. McCoy has happy feet and looks to run first or dump off to the safety valve. I mean McCoy is the only QB I've seen that can go 3 of 3 on a drive and still go 3 and out. He doesn't throw the ball down field enough.
Weeden is a rookie and is going to make mistakes but in the long run he has waaaaay more upside than Colt McCoy. The pass he made in the Philly game where he was almost sacked and stepped up in the pocket and threw a pass splitting 3 defenders for a large gain to MoMass......McCoy can't make that throw in his dreams. If he tries it's pick 6 but more likely the moment he felt pressure he would have been off running trying to make a play with his feet.
I'm sure this is the same type of stuff McCoy heard when he was recruited in college. "He doesn't have the skill set to beat out these other guys"
It's going to be easier to stack 9 in the box against Wheeden than McCoy this season. As far as the dink and dunk, that's the WC offense. The Browns need to bring in some playmakers who can RAC.
If I were a defensive coordinator, i would be telling my players "whatever you do, dont injure #3, keep him in the game"
Last edited by LbOhio; 08/29/12 02:44 PM.
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It's going to be easier to stack 9 in the box against Wheeden than McCoy.
That's misinformed at it's finest.
you had a good run Hank.
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I'm sure this is the same type of stuff McCoy heard when he was recruited in college. "He doesn't have the skill set to beat out these other guys"
College does not equal NFL. There are scores of NCAA QB's that were very successful in College but didn't pan out in the NFL.
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It's going to be easier to stack 9 in the box against Wheeden than McCoy this season.
I hope they do, WEEDEN (no H), has shown he can hit guys in stride down field. McCoy Can't, or at least he has failed to show he can.
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As far as the dink and dunk, that's the WC offense.
No, it's not. Not even close. You think Aaron Rodgers is a dink and dunk passer???
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The Browns need to bring in some playmakers who can RAC.
Kind of hard to do when you are being tackled when you catch the ball. That's the problem with 9 men in the box. Dink and Dunk don't work.
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Dang, Steve, you beat me to it! 
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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As far as the dink and dunk, that's the WC offense.
No, it's not. Not even close. You think Aaron Rodgers is a dink and dunk passer???
Or Michael Vick? Or (RIP) Brett Favre? Or Matt Schaub?
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Weeden, dude, Weeden. Not WHeeden...
I'm 41 and it's probably very telling, but I get it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The most important thing to have when the defense is creeping up to blitz or stacking 9 in the box is a QB who knows the proper read and audible. The most important thing is a QB who can read the defense.
Wheedon has a stronger arm than McCoy, but stating that McCoy cant throw well enough to beat 9 men in the box is absurd. That's being disingenuous. McCoy doesn't have a cannon, but he can sling the ball around and is more accurate than Wheeden.
Last edited by LbOhio; 08/29/12 03:02 PM.
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Wheedon has a stronger arm than McCoy, but stating that McCoy cant throw well enough to beat 9 men in the box is absurd. That's being disingenuous. McCoy doesn't have a cannon, but he's accurate and can sling the ball around.
Please show me where he has shown the ability to do this in the NFL.
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Weeden, dude, Weeden. Not WHeeden...
epic
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The most important thing to have when the defense is creeping up to blitz or stacking 9 in the box is a QB who knows the proper read and audible. The most important thing is a QB who can read the defense.
Wheedon has a stronger arm than McCoy, but stating that McCoy cant throw well enough to beat 9 men in the box is absurd. That's being disingenuous. McCoy doesn't have a cannon, but he can sling the ball around and is more accurate than Wheeden.
Really? That's good to know because last year the guy we had out there at quarterback had problems with that kind of thing.
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Weedon has a stronger arm than McCoy, but stating that McCoy cant throw well enough to beat 9 men in the box is absurd. That's being disingenuous. McCoy doesn't have a cannon, but he can sling the ball around and is more accurate than Wheeden.
Really? McCoy has had 13 games in this system. Weeden 0.
So if you would quit trolling and look at this objectively, you have no idea which one is better. They put 8 and nine men in the box all of last season against McCoy and we averaged only a little over 13 points a game.
So why, if as you indicated, if McCoy is so good, did he not read these D's and beat those teams by "throwing the ball around"?
You have just defeated yourself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quoted since he didn't get the hint the first 5 times...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Weedon has a stronger arm than McCoy, but stating that McCoy cant throw well enough to beat 9 men in the box is absurd. That's being disingenuous. McCoy doesn't have a cannon, but he can sling the ball around and is more accurate than Wheeden.
Really? McCoy has had 13 games in this system. Weeden 0.
So if you would quit trolling and look at this objectively, you have no idea which one is better. They put 8 and nine men in the box all of last season against McCoy and we averaged only a little over 13 points a game.
So why, if as you indicated, if McCoy is so good, did he not read these D's and beat those teams by "throwing the ball around"?
You have just defeated yourself.
Yea, that's all because of McCoy. Sure. He had playmakers all around him. The WRs alone should have stricken fear in the defensive backs but because of McCoy...
methinks Shurmur has his scapegoat
Last edited by LbOhio; 08/29/12 03:21 PM.
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Did the WRs throw the ball behind themselves?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Did the WRs throw the ball behind themselves?
Today's WHeeden vs McCoy discussions are funnier than ever. Made my day.
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Yea, that's all because of McCoy. Sure. He had playmakers all around him. The WRs alone should have stricken fear in the defensive backs but because of McCoy...
methinks Shurmur has his scapegoat
Me thinks if you read defenses well and are accurate, the FO (not Shurmer) doesn't draft a QB in round 1.
Me thinks a few french fries have escaped the Happy Meal.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Did the WRs throw the ball behind themselves?
Today's WHeeden vs McCoy discussions are funnier than ever. Made my day.
Maybe Colt was tired of passes bouncing off their hands so he was trying to wedge the ball between ass cheeks.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Brandon Weeden named starting QB
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