|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
This is a rant and rave. Just had to belch it out before I get to work and stir it up there...
Been watching First Take, where they invited Warren Moon to sit in for a conversation about Luck and RG3 along with the regular crew of Stephen A(hole) Smith and Bayless. However, they just HAD to bring up Tebow, and even went so far as to take things to a ridiculous level, which was to pose this pathetic question:
Has Tim Tebow given special considerations that black QB's haven't? 
I fully acknowledge that racism still plays a role in the world today. It's sad, but it's also reality. However, has anyone you've spoken to regarding Tebow EVER said he was special treatment that black QB's in his situation haven't? I certainly have never had that conversation, and I've been blasting Tebow to any football fan I've run across since before he came into the NFL.
First and foremost, as much as I'd loved watching Warren Moon play, he's also a very vocal guy who always plays the race card. Sometimes he's been right. Sometimes he's been a horses ass and been terribly wrong. ESPN KNEW that bringing him on to talk was a perfect opportunity to stir the racism pot.
The premise of their "issue" was that Tebow came from a spread and isn't a good thrower, but that the Bronco's changed their entire offense to suit what Tebow does well. However, black QB's who ran like him and supposedly were even better throwers never got the considerations that Tebow did. Why?
Racism.
I'm genuinely irritated by that pathetic horse-and-pony show which is designed to do nothing more than generate ratings. It's just too bad that they are willing to stir up the evil's of racism to accomplish their goals.
I'm not sure when the exact moment was when the media stopped reporting the news and started creating it, but ESPN continues to take that to new lows.
Did they even bother to mention that Tebow was a 1st round QB, and when you invest so heavily in a guy like that you would be idiots not to cater the offense to fit what he does? Oh Hell no they didn't. Not a mention. Not a hint. Just a bunch of rhetoric from two racism-stokers stating it's unfair that Tebow got opportunities that black QB's have never gotten.
The truly sad part is that I agree with A(hole) Smith when he says he doesn't hate Tebow, but rather he hates Tebowmania. However, there's nothing in that phenomenon which gives him special treatment over black QB's. They just wanted an excuse to kill two ratings birds with one stone: Talking about Tebow and racism in the same sentence.
Sorry for the rant.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
The thought never entered my mind. I think at the NFL level its all about who can win.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Has Tim Tebow given special considerations that black QB's haven't?
Yes, but it was because of his college record, his outspoken faith, his looks, and his charisma.. not because he's white.
Quote:
The premise of their "issue" was that Tebow came from a spread and isn't a good thrower, but that the Bronco's changed their entire offense to suit what Tebow does well. However, black QB's who ran like him and supposedly were even better throwers never got the considerations that Tebow did. Why?
I guess you would have to ask John Fox that question... Orton was horrible so they made a midseason switch and changed the offense accordingly... and Denver/Tebow won a lot of games.....
Are they saying that if Carolina had kept Moore to start that they would have gone with the same offense that made Cam so effective? I highly doubt it. They changed the offense to accommodate what Cam does well and it worked......
In my opinion its much more a reflection of the coach being able to recognize what a guy does well and getting everybody else to work around it than it is a race issue. The Broncos were ridiculed right and left by white and black people for doing what they did... even after it worked.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
Agreed, and Agree with the poster who agreed there...
Moreso I think that Tebow has been given considerations EVERY other QB has never gotten because of his past success level. The guy won titles plural at Florida and a heisman. Then he was a first round pick.
then like other first round picks he was forced into duty too early to try and invigorate an offense and a team and they went to the playoffs...
So...to say he's been given opportunities others havent is bogus. He made the most of them when given them forever, and people believed in it. None of the black QBs im sure that would come to mind for these "experts" ever experienced the same level of success or anywhere close to what Tebow has experienced in his career.
and its crazy that Stephen A and Warren Moon would claim it because theyre beneficiaries of their own success regardless of their race. Theyve made it...why would they say someone else is getting the same opportunities theyve gotten cuz of race.
Now if a guy like Jamarcus Russell was saying that, maybe I'd believe in it. Maybe if Charlie Ward said it...okay.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
The jets did exactly that with Brad Smith running the Tigercat formation. The Vikings run a formation called Blazer package with QB Joe Webb. (both are black) The extent to which Tebow ran the offense was unprecidented compared to previous offenses which were package based. Whoopity doo. He was traded for some beans and now will be running that offense as a package. Just like everybody else
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
You know... it's kind of funny. The only people giving Tebow special considerations are ESPN and Gators fans. Everybody else thinks he stinks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
The reason I can't stand things like this is because it "cheapens" racism. When you play the race card over and over for stupid things like this, real issues of racism now get watered down or ignored.
Like you said, racism happens and is very real. I witnessed it this past year when someone put a "whites only" sign at the pool where my niece (who is a mix of black and hispanic) goes swimming. That's the kind of racism that should make everyone's blood boil.
But when the "race card" comes into account for Tebow, it makes everyone who has a legitimate racism claim seem disingenuous.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
Quote:
Been watching First Take
That was your first mistake. 
What a waste of air time that show is (even for BSPN).
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194 |
The far bigger surprise is that Shanahan acknowledged that he and son Kyle, the team’s offensive coordinator, won’t insist on Griffin running the existing offense exactly the way they want him to run it. “We’re going to adjust our system to what he feels comfortable with,” Shanahan said, “and we’ll watch him grow and we’ll do what we feel like he can do and what he does the best. . . . One thing the NFL is not used to is a quarterback with his type of speed and his type of throwing ability, so I think we can do some things that people haven’t done.” http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/06/shanahan-says-griffin-is-the-starting-quarterback/
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Seriously? He's saying that after all the coverage that RGiii got over Luck. RGiii who was the second pick of the draft received more media attention than Luck who was the NUMBER 1 pick. Both play the same position and the one receiving less attention is the first round pick.. Then, you also have Russell Wilson up in Seattle who has been getting a lot of notice. Tebow is just Tebow and is getting attention because he is Tebow and not because he is white.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
ESPN creates their own issues, then debates if its fair.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
Quote:
Been watching First Take
That was your first mistake.
What a waste of air time that show is (even for BSPN).
I think watching ESPN was his first mistake ... they've been manufacturing their own "outrageous" story for years now. First Take must be an absolute garbage show with Skip Brainless and Stephen Ahole Smith as their cornerstone guys. Both guys don't care if you're talking about them being idiots ... just so long as you're talking about them ... and they adjust their opinions to match that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
Quote:
Been watching First Take
That was your first mistake.
What a waste of air time that show is (even for BSPN).
+1
It may be the worst show on TV. Heck, I'd watch a Dance Moms marathon before watching 1 hour of First Take.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,431
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,431 |
Racism ( even non existent) = Ratings
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
Quote:
However, black QB's who ran like him and supposedly were even better throwers never got the considerations that Tebow did.
I'm pretty sure the Panthers have tailor made their offense for Cam... and the Redskins will base their offense a lot on what RG3 can do...
Tebow got an opporunity to play because the public loves him and John Fox threw him in there (I believe) with the thought that they weren't making the playoffs so let him go fail so they can move on... unfortunately he won... it was ugly and they probably won despite him, but they still won and they had to stick with him.
Racism has nothing to do with Tebow...
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
I'm not sure when the exact moment was when the media stopped reporting the news and started creating it, but ESPN continues to take that to new lows.
That's what happens when you have a monopoly. Nothing can compete with ESPN so they can throw out whatever crappy product they want.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,433 |
ESPN and TSN need to switch countries. I'd like to see Dan O'toole and Jay Onrait on ESPN.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,095
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,095 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm not sure when the exact moment was when the media stopped reporting the news and started creating it, but ESPN continues to take that to new lows.
That's what happens when you have a monopoly. Nothing can compete with ESPN so they can throw out whatever crappy product they want.
Which is why I only still watch PTI and Around the Horn.... and I only watch them about once per 3 month interval. (I used to watch them everyday, 3 years ago).
Know what? I don't miss'em... and I don't miss ESP(i)N at all.
They're not on my radar any more..... and it's a sure bet that they won't get back.
Don't want'em.
Don't need'em.
Don't watch'em.
Don't miss'em.
Don't wanna re-connect with'em.
I get what I need from the net. You guys provide better stuff than any TV show could ever provide.... AND.... I get to give it back, when I feel inclined to do so.
Win/win.
ESP(i)N = Lose.
I'm out.
Peace.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,674
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,674 |
I agree. I can't remember the last time I watched ESPN for anything other than a broadcast game of some sort.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
That would be me as well.
Just don't watch ESPN unless it's a particular sporting event I want to see, I never watch their talking heads shows.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
I like Mike & Mike but that's the onyl show I'll watch unless I'm really bored... occasionally I'll turn on SC. But I get most of my info online... I do get a lot from ESPN.com but that's because I can choose what I read or look at...
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,522
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,522 |
I don't watch any of their opinionated or analyst shows, but I do watch Sports Center just to catch up on all the highlights I come across.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,663
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,663 |
I'm sure there is still some of that going on with some players, but I don't see it as much anymore. I can think of a few QB's who were black who had their offenses custom fit for them.
Vick and Culpepper come to mind in recent times. I remember watching Randall Cunningham and they customized their offense to fit his mobility with roll outs, and designed runs. Heck even Doug Williams had the offense built to him in Washington.
I don't think Akili Smith was very good, even though they tried to use him in a way that wasn't very suited for him. But then again, his team pretty well sucked too.
I don't think racism plays too big of a role in the NFL anymore. At the executive level maybe, but that's fading pretty fast too.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448 |
The up side to a situation like this is ... That we here on OUR board can have a rational discussion about race ( and other topics ) in a some what intelligent , enlightened tone ( Well maybe not DJ  ) Hardly ever watch ESPN , Sport Center now and then..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
I don't watch any of their opinionated or analyst shows, but I do watch Sports Center just to catch up on all the highlights I come across.
Yea, me too. That's why I love that scroll bar on the left that shows you what the next 5 or 6 topics are... so I know if I need to stay or if I can go do something else and come back.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
I actually gave up up Sportscenter two years ago.
I'll watch NFL Live and Baseball Tonight, but that's it.
But I do watch PTI and the Dan Lebatard show almost every day (Poppy is awesome).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
i'll tune into SC for the non-sport sport stuff (Penn State scandal, concussion stuff, labor negotiations, etc.).
for any actual sporting stuff (especially highlights and analysis), the MLBTV, NFLN and NBATV stations just crush their coverage.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
I won't tune into them for anything - they just suck, IMO.
If I'm really bored, or if the Browns are playing, I'll tune in MNF. That's it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,680
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,680 |
This is totally made up senseless chatter.
It makes sense to tailor your offense to the skills of the QB playing.
A marginal QB will succeed only if they are given plays that they are able to complete.
Bad QB play is color blind... see Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 989 |
If you never seen First Take it goea some like this:
Skip bayless: Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow
Stephen A. Smith: "long articulate rant".... Skip u need help
I use to like the show until skip bayless talked about Tebow every single day. It got so bad I was beginning to think he wanted to take Tebow's virginity. And I do mean everyday. In august, march, sept., may... EVERY show he mentions him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Only QB in the league at the moment that sometimes I wonder if he was black.. would he still be in the league for his actions is Carson Palmer..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,522
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,522 |
Quote:
Only QB in the league at the moment that sometimes I wonder if he was black.. would he still be in the league for his actions is Carson Palmer..
 Really? You mean where he held out on his team, or are you referring to Roethlisberger?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
No, about the pouting and demanding a trade. Totally legit question IMO. He's not good enough to pout like that.
OTOH... the guy who traded for him (who is black, BTW) now works for the team he sent a first and second round draft pick to... shortly after the person he reported to died.
I think the Palmer deal was super-shady.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,405 |
Quote:
ESPN creates their own issues, then debates if its fair.
One of the best posts I have ever read.
"My signature line goes here."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,506
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,506 |
Well, Hopefully one day CBS Sports channel, or NBC Sports channel, will provide real competition for ESPN.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
Quote:
If you never seen First Take it goea some like this:
Skip bayless: Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow, Tebow
Stephen A. Smith: "long articulate rant".... Skip u need help
I use to like the show until skip bayless talked about Tebow every single day. It got so bad I was beginning to think he wanted to take Tebow's virginity. And I do mean everyday. In august, march, sept., may... EVERY show he mentions him.
Every once in awhile I'll flip over and 90% of the time they are talking about Tebow... I never watch that show any more... those two just get on my nerves...
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253 |
I think ESPN is just trying to create a QB controversy with the Jets. Who else spends all their time talking about a 2nd string QB?....Whoops, nevermind.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,959 |
wow, that came totally out of left field, not sure I can say with any certainty I've seen any thing like that take place..
never crossed my mind to be honest..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845 |
Toad and the rest of you folks so called agree with TOAD, For one thing, do you even know if TOAD actually got his rant right??? Now of course its Toad so you might want to check behind it!!! So of course I did and found that OF COURSE, TOAD WAS NOT LISTENING Correctly - per usual!!! espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=8313842 Go around the 42 minute mark to start the segment and 45 minute mark for the question about Tim Tebow!! ( it goes until the 50 minute mark) As a matter of fact, Warren was agreeing with Stephen A. Smith, spoke highly of Tebow and only said Tebow's skill set does not match the pro Qb skill set and should continue to improve. Thats it... The only time he spoke about black qbs is that teams before would not change their offensive philosophy based on their skill set vs what Denver did for Tebow. THATS IT!!.. You got it wrong per usual.. Next time try listening before you rant!! Wait. that would require comprehension. Also, while we are chatting, before any of you try to even criticize what you thought was said, you might want to remember a year ago when some of you all stated Moon was wrong about Newton...etc, when a good percentage of the critics were not talking about football related stuff, just some made up crap!! And then Newton went out and lit up the NFL.  ... get your facts straight!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,194 |
Quote:
The only time he spoke about black qbs is that teams before would not change their offensive philosophy based on their skill set vs what Denver did for Tebow. THATS IT!!..
And that would be a lie which is exactly what was being discussed here. Atlants did it for Vick years ago. I quoted Shanahan as saying he was doing it for RG3 this year. You don't think Carolina changed up for Cam last year?
That's the point. They're making up crap just to stir the pot. We aren't the ones who missed it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum BOO! at ESPN for stirring the race
card...
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
