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Do we take the #1 QB if we pick first in the draft, even though we have Weeden and potentially shows improvement over the course of the season?
My answer: YES!
Related issues:
If that happens, is Heckert gone?
Shurmur?
I'm assuming Holmgren is gone regardless of record.
What if Heckert stays but Shurmur goes?
Will Haslam insist we take the #1 QB to put his team on the map?
Thoughts?
Last edited by CalDawg; 09/05/12 02:58 PM.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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One, I'm not sure by the end of the season that Barkley is going to be the concensus #1 pick.
Two, if Weeden looks like the man for the job, then no, you don't take a QB just to take one. The way the roster looks right now, if I have the #1 pick next year, I'm taking a pass rushing beast DE... assuming one is worthy of the #1 pick. There is a lot of football to watch between now and then.
Three, I'm not assuming anybody is gone. I guess that is a logical argument if we have the #1 pick because that will likely mean we won 2 or 3 games.
yebat' Putin
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Two, if Weeden looks like the man for the job, then no, you don't take a QB just to take one.
especially when auctioning the 2nd best QB apparently nets you 3 1st round picks + more
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No.
Barely is another overrated (not to mention, undersized) USC QB. I am not impressed with him in any way as a pro prospect. I see BUST in all capital and bright flashing letters.
If we take him #1 overall we'll be lookiing for another QB in a couple of years after that.
No thanks.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i thought so last season too on Barkley. he had much more zip on his ball in the opening game at Hawaii (Woods did him no favors though).
so, i'm reserving judgement on him until I see him play more of the meat of their schedule to see if it was just the huge open windows against the Hawaii defense that gave him the confidence to wing it around like that.
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If we finish with the worst record everyone is fired. That's just how things work.
This is the last ten years.
Last year Colts finish last...everyone fired. 2010 Panthers finish last...head coach fired. 2009 Rams finish last...not everyone fired, but it was their first year on the job and it was expected that they would be terrible. 2008 Lions finish last...not everyone fired, but this was the first year after the 0-16 with the new staff. 2007 Dolphins...everyone fired.2006 Raiders...head coach fired (Al Davis wasn't going to fire himself). 2005 Texans...head coach fired. 2004 49ers...not everyone fired, again first year on the job. 2003 Chargers...Schotteheimer stayed. 2002 Bengals...everyone fired. 2001 Panthers everyone fired.
So yes, if we finish with the worst record I would expect Shurmur to be fired at the very least. Heckert would also be out the door because we are also in the unique situation of an ownership change.
Would we take Barkley (or a different QB) #1? Depends on a few things: What does the new GM think of him? What does the new coach think of him? What system will we run? Did he show signs of being a franchise QB?
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LMAO!!! Sure, why not?! 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Barely is another overrated (not to mention, undersized) USC QB.
Would you please at least wait until the offseason with this? I can't believe we haven't played our first game of the season yet and I'm already irritated at and tired of your derogatory nickname for a prospect in NEXT year's draft.
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I have no idea.
It would depend on the scouting done by professionals on the team.
As an amateur I strongly prefer a QB with arm strength and prototypical size. So I would favor Weeden over Barkley and trade for picks.
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Good points here about Barkley not necessarily being the best QB in the draft.
Any worries about Wheeden's mobility, and would it be desirable to go after a guy that has all the measurables, including size, mobility and athleticism?
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I love that you misspell W(no H)eeden's name for some reason.
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Quote:
Quote:
Barely is another overrated (not to mention, undersized) USC QB.
Would you please at least wait until the offseason with this? I can't believe we haven't played our first game of the season yet and I'm already irritated at and tired of your derogatory nickname for a prospect in NEXT year's draft.
Sorry, I have called him that all along. I called him that before he realized that we would be the 3rd, at best, QB taken in this draft, and went back to USC where he could be surrounded by NFL level talent, and might have a shot as riding that talent to a National Championship.
I think, and have thought all along, that he is drastically overrated.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How old are you? I thought that was a typo at first, but now that you have said you did it deliberately I know it isn't.
I can understand if you don't like a guy, but making up stupid nicknames is just lame.
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yes I know... which has given me time to fatigue over the nickname.
Am I the only person that finds that annoying?
*edit* I guess not.
Last edited by clevesteve; 09/05/12 02:30 PM.
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FOR GOSH SAKES EVERYONE!!!! IT'S WEEDEN, NOT WHEEDEN! IT'S LAUVAO, NOT LAUVOA! IT'S HADEN, NOT HAYDEN! But don't worry, you gave us the laughing elf, so you're still cool.  
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Yep. Holgrem and Shumer don't appreciate mocking our players like that.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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 Holgrem is the worst.
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Quote:
yes I know... which has given me time to fatigue over the nickname.
Am I the only person that finds that annoying?
*edit* I guess not.
I hate the demeaning nicknames used for any player, and I usually only need to read it once before I'm rolling my eyes at it.
There was a lot more that I wanted to say about it, and how ridiculous I think it is, but I'll just leave it at that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Sorry .... I know that I am the only one who has done assigned a nickname to a player. At least the kid isn;t one of our players. However, if it upsets you so much, I'll just refer to him as the current USC QB. Is that acceptable to you?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm just glad we don't have Shawn Rodgers anymore.
Some future candidates for misspellings:
Tank Carder >>>> Tank Carter
Tashaun Gipson >>>> Tashaun Gibson
Buster Skrine >>>> Buster Screen
Emmanuel Stephens >>>> Emmanuel Stevens
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Quote:
FOR GOSH SAKES EVERYONE!!!!
IT'S WEEDEN, NOT WHEEDEN!
IT'S LAUVAO, NOT LAUVOA!
IT'S HADEN, NOT HAYDEN!
But don't worry, you gave us the laughing elf, so you're still cool.
lol, I know how to spell his name, I just seem to gack that h in there for some reason. Stupid typing fingers... 
Who, What, When Where, Why & Wheeden!
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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That's fine. Thank you.
And yes I know there are other. I hate the Dolt McCoy,I hated the Eric Mangini fat jokes, and I also thought it was dumb when a person thought Heckert was untrustworthy because he "looks" like a rat. Those are the three that really stick out to me.
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Are you alright with Chumley, Sherman & Mr. Peabody? 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
yes I know... which has given me time to fatigue over the nickname.
Am I the only person that finds that annoying?
*edit* I guess not.
I hate the demeaning nicknames used for any player, and I usually only need to read it once before I'm rolling my eyes at it.
There was a lot more that I wanted to say about it, and how ridiculous I think it is, but I'll just leave it at that.
I also think the hateful comments about our players is even worse, when the only reason is because they are not good players.
I missed the reason for the huge firestorm that it seems like Youngstown created. I have read a ton of nicknames for players that aren't flattering. I wonder why so many people allow those to pass. Are some of the same people who are upset now guilty of doing the same thing?
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I think we all agree that "Leon" was totally acceptable though. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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It's because I dared go against popular opinion.
That's OK though. I'll live with the double standard.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Do we take the #1 QB if we pick first in the draft, even though we have Weeden and potentially shows improvement over the course of the season?
My answer: YES!
My answer: Heck no. Weeden is a rookie - he's going to play like a rookie - period. If you keep drafting qb's in the first, what are you going to end up with? Nothing.
Weeden is the guy - he gets a minimum of 2 years - (caveat), unless he just sucks so bad it's unreal....I don't foresee that happening if realistic results are expected of him.
Quote:
Related issues:
If that happens, is Heckert gone?
Shurmur?
I'm assuming Holmgren is gone regardless of record.
What if Heckert stays but Shurmur goes?
Will Haslam insist we take the #1 QB to put his team on the map?
Thoughts?
Heckert, Holmgren and Shurmer? I don't know.
We have our first round qb. (interestingly, people that WERE elated by his pick are now saying "wait, he's a rookie, unproven receivers, questionable line, etc)........but heck no, in all but the absolute worst case, we don't pick another first round qb next year.
Edit to add: ONLY in Cleveland do some people question picking another qb in the first round IF our current rookie qb that hasn't played a game for the team, does bad in his initial season. A season that HAS NOT even started yet.
Seriously? You're asking about a qb in NEXT years draft? Already????
Last edited by archbolddawg; 09/05/12 03:13 PM.
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So here's a question for you, arch. I know it's too early to tell, but do you, (from what you've seen so far,) believe we have our franchise QB in Weeden? Quote:
Seriously? You're asking about a qb in NEXT years draft? Already????
I'm not talking about tanking Weeden, but more about accumulating talent. If we have an opportunity to acquire another top QB talent, I take him and sit him to learn. That's JMHO, but I don't think you can have too many good QBs. Not just a starter and a mediocre backup, but a guy for now, and one for later, especially with an aging rookie and the risk for injury that exists in the league.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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It's because I dared go against popular opinion.
That's OK though. I'll live with the double standard.
no it's not. it's been festering here for awhile. ask 'Peen about people getting on him about the Cherub nickname.
i find it annoying to designate such derogatory nicknames, but i generally ignore it and move on.
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I have no idea about Weeden at this point. And neither does ANYONE else.
To even discuss, at this time, using a first round pick on a qb in next years draft is just ludicrous.
Wanna stockpile talent? Wanna help the team? Get O line - get linebackers - and for the love of God, let's quit worrying about our qb. He get's 2 years, minimum. If you keep replacing qb's, know what you'll have? A team more broken down than the ones we've had the last couple of years - devoid of talent.
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If Weeden improved as the year goes on, I'd say we're idiots to invest what would undoubtedly be a top-5 pick on another QB...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't make use derogatory names towards our own players.
I may criticize, but I have never called McCoy, for example, anything but McCoy or Colt. (though mostly "McCoy")
That QB from USC isn't one of our players. I have no problem with nicknaming players who aren't on our team with something that reflects my views on their ability ..... especially when I feel that they are massively overrated by the media and the fans.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Regardless, we have to give Weeden a minimal of 3 years to prove himself. If we have the top pick next year, we trade down and aquire more picks for that draft and the next draft. There will be teams like Miami and Jacksonville that will be willing to trade up to pick the #1 QB in the draft. If RG3 pans out in Washington, that trade may have set a precident for what it will cost to get a team their franchise QB in the draft by trading up to the top pick. If we end up complete losers this year (and this schedule looks like a possibility) we can at least pull a little something from the #1 pick.
On a side note, with what St. Louis got out of the RG3 trade, I think the Rams could build something competitive by 2015.
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Perhaps, if you were talking about a talent like Luck, it might be ludicrous, but Weeden is not Luck, he's not mobile, he's not young, and he's probably not the future of the franchise. If he turns out to be, great, then trade someone, but ignoring the age and lack of mobility issues is basically going ostrich on the situation. This is a radically unique circumstance which may call for a radical approach. Picking him was a risk, having a back-up plan isn't completely ridiculous. Now, please don't misunderstand, while I wasn't crazy about the pick, I didn't hate it, and I do believe he has the tools to be VERY good. However, I seriously wonder, right now, given our line, his inability to maneuver and our schedule against good defenses, if he'll make it past week 6 without ending up on IR. And BTW, it's simply a hypothetical question, no need to get your panties in a wad just because I asked it. You don't want to discuss because it's "too early", simply bow out.
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Barkley has a weak arm and super inflates his stats by throwing bubble screens to his NFL WRs. I believe he will be another USC bust.
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Quote:
Barkley has a weak arm and super inflates his stats by throwing bubble screens to his NFL WRs. I believe he will be another USC bust.
Hence my former nickname for him. He is "barely" an NFL caliber starting QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
Barkley has a weak arm and super inflates his stats by throwing bubble screens to his NFL WRs. I believe he will be another USC bust.
Hence my former nickname for him. He is "barely" an NFL caliber starting QB.
I will say this too, his USC team is freakin loaded with talent and SHOULD go to the National Championship.
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Quote:
Hypothetical: Weeden Improves But We Still Pick 1st. Barkley?
Yes.
I say it WOULD happen and if not, it would be WELL KNOWN that we tried hard.
But I'd vote for the latter. Only because of the us not landing him part.
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Quote:
yes I know... which has given me time to fatigue over the nickname.
Am I the only person that finds that annoying?
*edit* I guess not.
I hate the demeaning nicknames used for any player, and I usually only need to read it once before I'm rolling my eyes at it.
There was a lot more that I wanted to say about it, and how ridiculous I think it is, but I'll just leave it at that.
I have to own up to one that I concocted:
Brayleon. I refrained from doing it for the longest time. Then, he started tapping into his "inner diva," and I just couldn't help it. I discontinued its use about midway through his first year with NYJ- since he wasn't a Browns player, I just didn't care any more.
Other than that, I don't do it. It bugs me when I see politicians' names toyed with, too.
Obummer. Mittens, Shrub, Rmoney.... it all just smacks of 10th grade to me.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Perhaps, if you were talking about a talent like Luck, it might be ludicrous, but Weeden is not Luck, he's not mobile, he's not young, and he's probably not the future of the franchise. If he turns out to be, great, then trade someone, but ignoring the age and lack of mobility issues is basically going ostrich on the situation.
Please - the age issue? You do realize he spent, what, 5 years? maybe 4 - playing baseball, right? Pitchers don't catch the same physical abuse as qb's - seriously. If you don't believe it - watch a baseball game.
His age has nothing to do with his ability - or his physical ability to take hits. Nothing. He's not 40.
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This is a radically unique circumstance which may call for a radical approach. Picking him was a risk, having a back-up plan isn't completely ridiculous.
Taking ANY player has risk. Look at T Rich. Look at the 2 pittsburgh linemen, look at ANYONE drafted. There are risks.
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Now, please don't misunderstand, while I wasn't crazy about the pick, I didn't hate it, and I do believe he has the tools to be VERY good. However, I seriously wonder, right now, given our line, his inability to maneuver and our schedule against good defenses, if he'll make it past week 6 without ending up on IR.
Guess we'll find out, won't we? We'll also find out about T Rich's knee - and Hardesty's........well, his everything. Should we be thinking about drafting a brand new shiny running back in next year's draft already?
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And BTW, it's simply a hypothetical question, no need to get your panties in a wad just because I asked it. You don't want to discuss because it's "too early", simply bow out.
First of all - my panties aren't in a wad. Not even close. I just think it's stupid to worry about next years draft when we haven't played a game yet this year.
And further - many on here call me a "Colt apologist", or "Colt lover", or a "McCoy"........"Colt defender", etc, etc, etc...........and here I am defending Weeden. I'm defending Weeden based on his rookie year status (no games played), on his lack of weapons, his, at this point in time, questionable line - all the same things I defended Colt on..............and I got called out for defending Colt, and now I'm getting called out for defending Weeden???????
Unreal.
If you don't want to discuss real life, just bow out. You're looking kinda......well, kinda upset because someone is looking at reality while you're stuck in fantasy.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hypothetical: Weeden Improves But
We Still Pick 1st. Barkley?
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