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See I have never seen one team change so many parts in one season on the offensive side of the ball. Never.
We have our top 2 QBs drafted by the Browns
top 2 of your top 3 backs drafted by the Browns
6 offensive linemen 5 starters drafted by the Browns
All 6 receivers were Browns originals 4 drafted 2 undrafted
On D we will have Sheldon Brown and Rucker and Fujita that were not drafted by the Browns. All other starters and the vast majority of backups are Browns originals.
This is why i am excited. There is some young talent and it is our talent. It isnt patchwork and castoffs. They have serious skills. I believe this team is being built the right way.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 09/07/12 07:28 PM.
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He's made a career on being 'squirrelly'. One has to wonder if the success that he's had has been the result of those surrounding him and in spite of him.
yep, he just happened to get purely lucky and had no part in the success at BYU, 80s 49ers, 90s Packers, and 00s Seahawks. And, despite the success being "in spite of him" each place he continued to receive promotions. Nope, purely coincidental 
He ain't showing me a damned thing in Cleveland and the success at all those stops along the way weren't because of him, but because of others.
Belicheck has had success in New England but couldn't get it in Cleveland Why?
Schottenheimer had success in Cleveland and KC and San Diego. Why?
I'm not buying into the 'genius' of Holmgren. Not one bit. If he's the genius that you think he is, shouldn't Haslam keep him? We'll have to see if that happens. Somehow, I think that Holmgren will be shown the door and the one he exits will have a shiny new lock on it.
I dont understand 1 part of this I'm guessing your saying BB had success in NE and not Cleveland because he won SB's? BB had built up a staff here in Cleveland that top notch (had players in place) and ready to win the super bowl which they did after Modell riped the team away and moved them to Baltimore. BB was going to the playoffs here as a coach.
Marty on the other had made the playoffs alot but could never get over the hump so how could BB be considered as a fail here and Marty as having success?
As far as the Holmgren stuff goes thats your opinion and I can understand you may not like what hes done here but to discount everything he's done good and only focus on the bad does you an injustice.
Tossing out the "well if hes not here next year I was right, when there are so many variables that easly point to he may not be here is silly.
Are the people that think Holmgren is doing what he was hired to do (be president) get a compatent GM who (I think) has final say on the roster and attempt to find a good coaching staff a failure?
I get the feeling you wanted him to Coach and because he has not done that you have labeled him a failure no matter what he does. If the new owner makes Banner the Pres and MH becomes an adviser then is everyone right?
Your coaching comment is why I wonder.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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How did you get your name, anyway?
Celtic name. I used to do a lot of the Pagan festivals and stuff. Elderly lady I really admired gave me that name. She was something.
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This is exactly what I am talking about. You are talking about this miserable excuse for a team and they have yet to play 1 freaking snap this season. I wonder if Colt McCoy was starting if you might be taking a different view of the Holmgren regime lol.
Admittedly, I might have a different view. If McCoy was starting, it would have been unlikely that the Browns used the #22 pick on Weeden and on someone else that could more readily help the team to succeed.
As for the team not having played a freaking snap this season, this is true. I'm not unaware of it. I just don't think they're going to be any better in the W-L record than last year's 4-12 season. It's great if you think so, but I could very easily turn the tables and say that I'm sick of these 'cloud in the sky' people that predict improvements over the previous season only to see another 4-12 or 5-11 season.
I'm willing to let them play the season out and be happier than crap covered in flies, but I'm not the optimist that you are. After 4 consecutive seasons of 5-11 or 4-12, what's there to be optimistic about? 6 wins? That's pie-in-the-sky stuff to me!
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This team is vastly different from last year so explain to me what your view on this miserable excuse for a team.
Indeed it is a vastly different team than last year but the key parts of the decision-making process are still the same. We're now three years into this front office's reign and in complete rebuild and we've got 15 rookies (yeah, that kept getting pointed out in here) on the team. Why so many rookies now? Why wouldn't you have that in Year 1 of such a rebuild and you shouldn't have so many by Year 3.
I think it's a regression. Given two additional years, Mangini probably wouldn't have done as badly. During his two seasons, he managed 5 wins both times and dealt with a GM that was escorted out of the building.
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I mean Obviously it must be the rookie QB that has yet to play an actual game.
Not going to deny this. Weeden is old. He's immobile. He's careless with the football. I have seen nothing at all indicating he was worth selecting before the 4th round, much less the #22 overall selection. We may soon be discussing who had the better career, Brady Quinn or Brandon Weeden.
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Maybe it is the RB? No wait he hasnt played a game either.
I haven't said anything bad against Richardson. I expect that he will be a quality RB, hopefully for years to come, for the Browns.
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Well we had the big hole at RT last year. Darn, yea we drafted a kid to fix that problem too. OO i know i bet we need an upgrade at receivers that must be it? damn drafted 2 of those also.
Makes you wonder why that RT hole wasn't filled before? And I'm not convinced that Schwartz is better than a number of tackles that were selected after him. And our guards are pathetic. I have hopes for Pinkston, but he needs to make leaps THIS year or be relegated to backup duty on the depth chart. Lauvao is total garbage and having him on the roster shows the pathetic state of the OL. Let's hope that Mitchell Schwartz develops into that premier RT that the Browns need and doesn't play like the combination turnstile and sieve that he is replacing.
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Wow we have all these new faces and none have played in a probowl yet? We should take Holmgren out and beat him with a hose.
We have all these players and the best one is our LT and another one of the best is our center. Pathetic! How many games are these two players going to win for us?
As for the receivers, we drafted a fourth round KR specialist that will probably turn out better than the plethora of 2nd rounders we've had at the WR position and then used next year's second rounder on another one that hadn't played in a year. Fantastic! Maybe they'll become inspirations and replace the duo of Massaquoi and Little. They could hardly be worse.
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I think it's a regression. Given two additional years, Mangini probably wouldn't have done as badly. During his two seasons, he managed 5 wins both times and dealt with a GM that was escorted out of the building.
The GM that was escorted out of the building WAS Mangini.
This is crazy, you say Mangini could have done better then later talk about how the new recievers replaced his drafted players.
You say you wanted McCoy to start because we could've used the 22nd pick on a player that could help the team more then a QB?
I like McCoy but even I can see Weeden in only a few snaps is an upgrade at the QB postion.
Gordon is probably the most dynamic reciever we have and as you said he had a year off, yet we wasted a pick on him (next year)? We get a whole free year of him playing and learning.
I will find it interesting at the end of the season 3 years from now what all the 2nd year, 1st year and rookie players on this roster this year are doing. Thats when I will be able to really make a grade on how the 5 year plan did. Considering we are only starting year 3.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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The GM that was escorted out of the building WAS Mangini.
Actually, it was George Kokinis.
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This is crazy, you say Mangini could have done better...
Not quite. I said he couldn't do worse.
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...then later talk about how the new receivers replaced his drafted players.
Actually, Little wasn't drafted by Mangini.
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You say you wanted McCoy to start because we could've used the 22nd pick on a player that could help the team more then a QB?
Yes, like a WR that can actually catch the ball or a competent OG that can help Richardson succeed.
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I like McCoy but even I can see Weeden in only a few snaps is an upgrade at the QB position.
Yeah. Okay.
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Gordon is probably the most dynamic receiver we have and as you said he had a year off, yet we wasted a pick on him (next year)? We get a whole free year of him playing and learning.
I didn't say that the pick was wasted. If you want to put it that way, Gordon needs to be a better WR than anyone on the draft board next year that turns out gets drafted further than the position where the Browns will have selected.
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I will find it interesting at the end of the season 3 years from now what all the 2nd year, 1st year and rookie players on this roster this year are doing. Thats when I will be able to really make a grade on how the 5 year plan did. Considering we are only starting year 3.
Only starting year 3? How many 4-12 seasons are you willing to suffer through? Certainly, the games still need to be played this season and anything could happen. The future isn't determined yet. If the Browns win more than 4 games, it'll have to be considered an improvement - even if the win total is 5.
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Legend
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I didn't say that the pick was wasted. If you want to put it that way, Gordon needs to be a better WR than anyone on the draft board next year that turns out gets drafted further than the position where the Browns will have selected.
One of the few reason I liked the idea of grabbing Gordon this year, is there is no way he's worse than a Rookie 2nd Round WR next year...
Just based on being in the NFL for a year already, and being in the offese for a year already...
If he can put up Last year Greg Little type numbers THIS year? That's just icing on the cake my friend...
And I will point out that he has had MORE time than Little, and plus he practiced in College last year unlike Little, and therefore is more football ready...
So now that I've talked him up so much, I expect him to suck horribly   
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Legend
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Admittedly, I might have a different view. If McCoy was starting, it would have been unlikely that the Browns used the #22 pick on Weeden and on someone else that could more readily help the team to succeed.
And this pretty much explains it all.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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If I were Mike Holmgren I would feel squirrelly also.
The draft is seven rounds for most teams not all 7 guys make the team. Not only did all seven make our roster but 8 more rookie free agents that all the other teams passed on in the draft made the roster by beating other players out.
In addition 27 players with two years or less experience make up the team roster. I am all for building through the draft "if" the players are good enough.
I question how so many guys with so little experience can be expected to win?
Especially with so many playing key positions.
Holmgren has hitched his wagon to Weeden. Basically when you break it all down he was hired to solve the quarterback position. That may sound simplistic but it is the truth.
He stated that when he said right from the beginning "the most important decision we will make will be on the quarterback".
Well now is the moment of truth. Weeden has to show that he is worth the first round investment. He has to display the "potential" to lead a team to the championship.
This past draft boiled down to drafting Trent Richardson, Branden Weeden and Mitchell Schwartz versus RG3.
We will see how that plays out.
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