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The owners of a modest home near Twentynine Palms lost their cherished possessions after a bank mistakenly foreclosed their residence. A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure. The couple, however, didn’t have a mortgage on the home. Alvin said the deputy sheriff said, “Good news, we know who took (your possessions)…Wells Fargo. Bad news, your stuff is all gone.” All the married couple has now are three generations of memories. Alvin, a retired mason, built the home with his father when he was a teenager. “I know every inch, every rock…my mom mixed all the cement by hand,” he said. Alvin and his wife would later bring their six children to their desert oasis. “My little kids (would) come out here and their dresses were the same color as the wildflowers,” said Alvin. A spokesman for Wells Fargo released a statement apologizing to the couple. “We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,” said Alfredo Padilla. “We are moving quickly to reach out to the family to resolve this unfortunate situation in an attempt to right this wrong.” Alvin and Pat remain distraught. “When you put your heart into something…it makes me real sad. I’m just glad I have my sweetheart. We’ve been together a long time,” said Alvin. link I gotta tell you, this story made me actually angry - and it's not the first one of its like. This kind of stuff should never be allowed to happen. Basically, the bank came in, took everything - including priceless mementos - and the result? They issue a written apology and just move on to do it to someone else. These banks need to be held accountable and should be required to prove they actually own the home instead of just busting in whenever they feel with no consequences. I'm very happy I have a local bank, I know Wells Fargo will never get my business.
![[Linked Image from i190.photobucket.com]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z33/booger52/phpGGRdhwAM.jpg)
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So what did they do with the stuff? Straight to the landfill?
And I'm not going to defend Wells Fargo's actions here but they aren't JUST issuing an apology and moving on, I'm sure this is going to cost them.... not much compared to what they are worth and not nearly enough for this family to replace a lifetime of memories, but it will cost them a fair amount...
yebat' Putin
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Wells Fargo has $1.3 trillion in assets. Whatever they pay in fines will be a minuscule drop that they won't even notice a little bit. What I'm arguing is that things should never get to this stage in the first place. Reading this story, I was just thinking about some of the things I have in my home which no amount of money could replace (pictures of my grandparents, etc.) and how angry I would be. Perhaps I'm being a bit irrational, but I just think it defies logic that things like this are allowed to happen in the first place.
As for what they did with everything, I have no idea, I tried looking it up but the information wasn't provided.
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There should be a huge judgement and someone needs to go to jail. Breaking and entering and theft. No two ways about it in my book.
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Quote:
“We are deeply sorry for the very personal losses the Tjosaas family suffered as a result of their home being mistakenly secured,”
Sounds like breaking and entering, grand larceny, and trafficking in stolen goods. It's a shame that none of these apply. The fines might be minor considering Wells Fargo's net worth but a huge civil trail and settlement will do great damage to their company when it comes to their reputation.
#gmstrong
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That really sucks. I cannot imagine how ticked off I would be if this happened to me, and all of the stuff I had bought over the years was just gone.
I'm kind of surprised that this stuff doesn't happen more often, as there are a lot of foreclosures, and it seems like we make mistakes in every other process. Look at how many times police have kicked in the wrong door looking for a criminal.
Anyway, I hope that these people get a huge settlement, but I know that they would trade even that for their stuff back.
I do think that a bank should have to keep a person's belongings safe if they foreclose on a home, at least for a reasonable period of time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think this is criminal negligence, and don't see why people shouldn't be charged as such.
If I break into your house and take your things, 'Oops, it was a mistake' isn't going to cover my behind. I'm looking at criminal charges.
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I think they should be charged criminally. I just don't know what charges will stick and who should be charged. I wonder how long it took to figure out what happened. I would think they would be able to recover most items.
#gmstrong
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J/C. Seriously how long could it possibly take to prove the bank made a mistake. Doesn't seem possible 
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Wells Fargo makes a big, big mistake ( not life threatening )
Wells Fargo is going to pay the piper for the mistake ( and they know it )
Wells Fargo knows it was wrong/ knows it will have to pay / and Knows it is going to take a PR hit ..
350 million folks doing Biz. everyday in this Country of ours , and guess what , Mistakes are made .. Think that's why we developed " Small Claims Courts years ago ! .. The 99% / Occupy Wall Street mentality that exists on this Board is amazing to me ... Lets send some bank clerk to prison over this one , lets forget he probably has a family too .. No not the Bank Clerk , but the CEO of Wells Fargo .
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Quote:
I do think that a bank should have to keep a person's belongings safe if they foreclose on a home, at least for a reasonable period of time.
^^^^This^^^^ right here. It's not like the bank came in, stole these people's things and dumped it within 5 minutes. I'm sure the owners informed them right away of the issue. How on earth could they have disposed of their stuff when there was an issue to begin with?
#gmstrong
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So what did they do with the stuff? Straight to the landfill?
That's my first question. I wish there were an answer.
Second thought is: This is going to cost Wells Fargo dearly. Not in relation to their assets - but it will cost them if there's a civil suit. Imagine sitting on that jury.
"Members of the jury, this couple owned their home, free and clear, no mortgage, no lien........and this bank orders people to rob them of their possessions and dispose of them." (as an attorney, which I'm not) I'd add "they had priceless antiques, photos of family members long gone....." etc etc. "We are asking for judgement against Wells Fargo for $100 million.
Defense attorney says "Well, it was an honest mistake. We had the wrong address."
Judgement? $20 million to the couple.
Seriously - how does a bank foreclose on a home that has no mortgage? Criminal.
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My home is mortgaged through Wells Fargo. Perhaps I should refinance elsewhere.
Even if the bank "owns" your home isn't procedure to notify the sheriffs office for an eviction and locking of the premises? This sounds like some bizarre "repo man" type thing . . .
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Quote:
I think this is criminal negligence, and don't see why people shouldn't be charged as such.
If I break into your house and take your things, 'Oops, it was a mistake' isn't going to cover my behind. I'm looking at criminal charges.
You would simply have to explain that you really meant to take the stuff from the house next door. 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
So what did they do with the stuff? Straight to the landfill?
That's my first question. I wish there were an answer.
Second thought is: This is going to cost Wells Fargo dearly. Not in relation to their assets - but it will cost them if there's a civil suit. Imagine sitting on that jury.
"Members of the jury, this couple owned their home, free and clear, no mortgage, no lien........and this bank orders people to rob them of their possessions and dispose of them." (as an attorney, which I'm not) I'd add "they had priceless antiques, photos of family members long gone....." etc etc. "We are asking for judgement against Wells Fargo for $100 million.
Defense attorney says "Well, it was an honest mistake. We had the wrong address."
Judgement? $20 million to the couple.
Seriously - how does a bank foreclose on a home that has no mortgage? Criminal.
From the above story:
Quote:
A crew broke into Alvin and Pat Tjosaas’ desert home and took everything after being directed by Wells Fargo to secure the structure.
Wells Fargo hired some 3rd party who it says broke in, there's your crime. They were probably told to keep whatever they find by Wells Fargo as part of their compensation or simply did keep a bunch of stuff and told Wells Fargo it was almost empty. Pawn Shop here we come.
#GMSTRONG
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And that is criminal.
It's really no different than a crook breaking into your house and taking your stuff.
I'm sure there are things I'm not aware of. But if not - what's to stop the legal homeowner from finding these people and killing them for taking his/their stuff.
If there's not a criminal penalty for stealing the legal owners stuff, there shouldn't be a criminal penalty for the guy killing them for outright stealing.
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This will happen until a CEO or a Board member gets jailed. When that happens then triple redundancy procedures will be put in place.
Hit them where it hurts.
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People are really overreacting about this.
It was a mistake. There was no malicious intent here as far as we know. Someone put a number into a computer incorrectly. It's awful. Wells Fargo will have to pay for their mistake. They should. However, this is an extreme rarity.
The should change their procedures to protect the belongings of people they foreclose on, but man, I don't see criminal intent here.
Besides, it wouldn't be a CEO who goes to jail if they did prosecute. There's no criminal violation there. Technically they are allowed to seize their property after a specific procedure. It would be whoever put the number into the system incorrectly .... probably someone in a fairly low level job.
What would that solve?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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When errors become costly and painful, processes are put in place to reduce the errors. Apparently, this would be a good place for Wells to start.
SaintDawg™
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People are over reacting? About what? About a bank authorizing someone to confiscate and secure someone's home when there is no mortgage, no default?
Honestly, you think people are over reacting?
How would you like it if a bank came to take your truck. The truck you owned, free and clear. They just took it.
You wouldn't "over react" would you?
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People who are calling for criminal charges are overreacting.
There was a mistake made. It was an unimaginably horrible mistake. However, was it criminal? I don't think that it was.
I would be madder than hell if it happened to me, or anyone I knew. The family will get an enormous settlement or award, and will deserve it. However those calling for criminal charges are really overreacting.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well if corporations are in fact people, they would be arrested and charged....
You can't have it both ways.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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So, if a data entry worker, who is working their way through college, accidently typed in a "1" instead of a "2", should they go to prison for making a typing mistake?
I mean, really .... this was a horrible mistake. It was terrible. Wells Fargo should have to do all that is possible to make these people whole. However, in the end, it was an accident. Many accidents are horrible. However, I don't think that I want to go to a place where we try to throw CEOs in prison for mistakes made by employees.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
However, was it criminal? I don't think that it was.
They broke into someone's house without legal right or consent, and took their belongings without legal right or consent.
What part of that doesn't seem criminal to you?
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Well if corporations are in fact people, they would be arrested and charged....
You can't have it both ways.
#gmstrong
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I mean, really .... this was a horrible mistake. It was terrible. Wells Fargo should have to do all that is possible to make these people whole. However, in the end, it was an accident. Many accidents are horrible. However, I don't think that I want to go to a place where we try to throw CEOs in prison for mistakes made by employees.
If I ever get behind the wheel while drunk and destroy someone's property, I'll be sure to tell the judge it was a horrible mistake.
I'm sure they'll understand.
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And if someone was drunk when they input the address, then this would be a different situation.
Who are you planning on prosecuting criminally in this case,and on what legal basis?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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So are you saying we need more regulation? I thought that was bad...
#gmstrong
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So are you saying we need more regulation? I thought that was bad...
Regulations against typing mistakes? Sure, bring that on.
This place will be vacant in no time. 
A mistake was made. As far as we know, this is not some widespread problem. It was a mistake, one that Wells Fargo should pay for, along with the anguish they caused this family, but this is a civil matter, not a criminal one.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I was under the impression that having a local or county sheriff deliver an eviction notice was the proper course of action in these situations. I guess sending two bubba's and a truck instead of following due process is quicker.
#GMSTRONG
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Sure there are things they can do... Make it so these goods go to a temporary holding facility for 30 days. Make it so if this is a mistake, and you take the family's goods away and destroy them, you owe them 5 million dollars. You bet your butt the mistake won't happen again.
Unfortunately, you can't criminally prosecute in this case, since there's no one to prosecute. There should be, and will be, a civil lawsuit and I hope they get every bit of 5 million dollars, if not more. Someone's lifetime of memories/heirlooms are priceless. This is a small price for Wells Fargo to pay for such an agregious error.
#gmstrong
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If they broke such a law, then there should be repercussions against Wells Fargo. However, I don't see a criminal case against any of their officers or employees. I still see this as a civil case. We'll see how it turns out.
I want to add one more time, that I am appalled by this. I cannot imagine how horrible irt would be to go through something like this. However, I still see this as a civil case, that would probably lead to a substantial award to the people who were harmed by Wells Fargo's actions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Who are you planning on prosecuting criminally in this case,and on what legal basis?
How about Wells Fargo, for B&E, illegal tresspassing, theft and vandalism?
It sounds like they're admitting guilt, by offering 260k to the homeowner. This article sheds a little more light on the story:
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/09/07/f...ng-house-again/
We’re told that the housing crisis is over, and especially we’re told that we’ve reached the end of all these “technical errors” in the documentation and foreclosure process. We’re over that hump, the banks have cleaned up their act because those brave souls in the Obama Administration and the state AGs “took them on.” That’s what Kamala Harris, the Attorney General of California, implied the other night at the DNC convention. Somebody should send her this clipping from her home state:
A local couple’s dreams have been shattered by a foreclosure mistake that left their retirement home in ruins.
When banks take over foreclosed homes, they often try to salvage the contents inside to recoup their losses. But what if they have no right to those contents in the first place? Alvin Tjosaas says that scenario is all too real for him.
Back in 1961, a 14-year-old Tjosaas literally helped his father build a vacation home in Twentynine Palms. He’s taken his family there ever since, sharing unforgettable moments [...]
The house recently had valuables stored in the garage, including decades worth of family heirlooms. But the house was in ruins after Tjosaas says subcontractors hired by Wells Fargo entered the property with a foreclosure notice in hand. The notice had the name Stephen A. Janosik on it, but the address for the Tjosaas family home.
“It’s the wrong house, simple as that. It’s a big mistake, but sort of a simple mistake,” said Tjosaas.
Tjosaas is being way too nice about this. It’s a simple mistake that should simply NEVER HAPPEN. There are several layers of alleged safeguards to prevent this from ever happening. It’s not the kind of thing that can be explained by a wrong address – this happens too often for that to be the case. The address was written on all the forms because the banks have about as much knowledge about who owns what and why as the convenience store clerk down the street. The subcontractors destroyed this house, and got paid handsomely for it.
Wells Fargo is apparently making amends, offering the family $260,000 for their mistake (the Wells Fargo rep told Mr. Tjosaas outright that he sought them out for compensation after “media calls”). The larger point is that it’s a mistake that reveals the continued chaos in the land title system, which the big banks simply broke. I’m almost surprised this kind of chaos doesn’t happen more often.
But remember, housing recovery, nothing to see here…
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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It was a big mistake.
If they mistyped the address, as seems almost certain, then the order went to the wrong address. It's entirely possible that the foreclosure notice, sent by the court and delivered by a deputy, would have gone from the court, and the order to secure the property based on that order was typed in incorrectly at Wells Fargo.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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...which led to an illegal entry of the home, damage to the premises and theft of property. All criminal acts.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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but with the best of intentions.
#GMSTRONG
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$260k??? Are you kidding me? That number sounds like a joke.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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$260k??? Are you kidding me? That number sounds like a joke.
well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd want the heads of those at Wells Fargo that blew it, I want the heads of those owning the contracting firm that was hired who didn't fact check wells fargo before breaking in and essentially stealing property, I'd want the sheriff that allowed entry to have his head handed to him, I'd want the heads of city or county officials that allowed bogus paperwork to be filed and I'd want millions of dollars.
I'd want them (wells fargo) to feel the Pain so badly that they would be COURT ORDERED TO STOP all foreclosure activity until all paperwork is reviewed for accuracy and audited by an independent firm for which Wells Fargo must be forced to pay.
I'm also reasonably sure that my wants are overkill to some degree, but unless the pain of making mistakes like this that ruin peoples lives is felt at the top of the orgainzation and they are personally held accountable, it will not stop.
So, I'd settle for management of Wells Fargo putting up the money to fix this mess out of their own pockets.. I guarantee they won't let it happen again, they'll find out how the mistake was made and put in controls to stop it from happening again if it Costs them out of their own pockets.. I guarantee it.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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If they go to court, Wells Fargo would say that this was a once in a lifetime tragic mistake. It was a horrible mistake, but nothing that has ever happened before, and nothing that is likely to ever happen again. They would offer to pay for damages and pain and suffering, and the court would almost certainly agree. (especially if they can show that this has never happened before)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
once in a lifetime tragic mistake.
If by once in a lifetime, you mean "At least 50 homeowners have recently filed lawsuits alleging the servicer foreclosed with a loan mod request pending or even while they were on a payment plan" then yes, it is a once in a lifetime mistake.
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Wells Fargo Wrongly Forecloses on
a House, takes all possessions
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