|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Help me understand how a guy has his first start in the NFL, blows it big time, admits he enjoyed having his family around after the game for support.. and that somehow shows his maturity is not an asset? I think you are reaching.
They key words are when he said he's older and he should be able to handle it better.
Keep in mind what was sold to the fans by Holmgren, which was that his age and maturity are an asset which will make him ready to start. He folded as badly as any of the rookies who started opening day. Actually, he folded worse than any of them.
So, that's my answer. His failures as a baseball player were supposed to somehow translate to making him much more ready for what he was going to deal with in the NFL. By his own admission he wasn't ready. That makes what was supposed to be an asset anything but.
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, what would have shown his maturity was an asset?
Not compiling a QB rating lower than his career ERA. 
He choked and choked badly. He choked worse than all the other rookie QB's, and he's not just the oldest, he's BY FAR the oldest. He was touted as coming here ready to do the job right out of the gate. I didn't believe it then and sure don't believe it now.
I'm not going to credit him with going to watch film. That's his job. That doesn't show any more maturity than any other rookie in the league. If he were truly more ready to be in the league and ready for what was going to happen to him because of his age, we wouldn't have seen him implode as badly as he did.
The other side of this is that I'm actually defending him. People, like the Browns FO, have pushed Weeden into the starting role in large part because of his age. When we took him one of my very unpopular points was that I wanted to keep McCoy in case Weeden wasn't ready. I viewed him as a decidedly non-first round pick, which is the same as a developmental QB. I'd stated that if he wasn't ready to start, you cannot treat him any differently just because he's old. You let him learn on the bench and you let the vet start.
Maybe this is why some have said I appear to play both sides of the fence. How can I trash Weeden then turn right around and defend him? 
I don't like the guy. I think he has less than a 50/50 shot at becoming a legit starter. I think he was a pathetic gamble by a team desperate for a quick-fix because they'd blown it up to that point, not only with McCoy but with RG3 as well. But I also think the very worst thing they can do to him is to force him into the starting lineup if he isn't ready because if there is a chance he's going to turn into a good starter, those odds go WAAAAY down if they try to force him before he's ready.
So I'll say it again: It'll take more than one imploded game to say for sure that he isn't ready, but that example of a "mature" QB was pathetic. I'll also continue to say that in spite of the fact I don't believe McCoy will ever be a good starting QB, he may have to come in and start while Weeden gets his head screwed back on straight by holding a clip-board and absorbing what the NFL is all about. He clearly wasn't ready for what he saw, and that comes as no surprise to me. I'd rather sit him for the rest of the year than ruin him.
Weeden is going to be 29 this year, but that means nothing other than there's no way he'll be a starting QB for 8 seasons. He's a rookie from a weak conference and he played like a rookie from a weak conference. If he can't figure it out quickly and looks as scared as he did in week one, sit the guy and let him breath. You can't treat him any different just because he's old.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 45
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 45 |
That was one of the single poorest performances I've ever seen, and I've watched the strike seasons!
I had flashbacks of DA throwing the ball up without Edwards and Winslow.
I had flashbacks of Spergon Wynn just winging it.
I had flashbacks of having it drilled into my head by the same people how much we needed a real qb, that the rest of the offense would improve when you improved the qb, how the SAME people said over and over Weeden was the real deal because he could "spin it" and put the ball where it needed to be with deadly accuracy, how Weeden was older, more mature and "ready to go" and those same people said the same things about guys like Joey Harrington, Matt Leinart, Kevin Kobb and Jimmy Clausen.
I should have known the second "those people" fell in love with Weeden we just blew a draft pick.
I'm sorry, but Colt did better with less his first game with NO first team reps in practice and that scares the hell out of me.
I'm tired of the revolving door at qb, lack of a go to guy and safety outlet for the qb, idiots calling the plays, management that doesn't care, and scouts that pull the whiffs of the century every time Goodell steps the post and says "The Browns pick...."
Maybe things will get better with the new ownership.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
I'm not as concerned about this as you are.
Obviously Weeden struggled. However, he had rookies at 2 WR spots, RT, RB, and 2nd year players at TE, FB, and LG. That's a ton of youth, and a ton of mistakes made across the board.
We know that there were mistakes made by many different players. We don't know how many though. However, and regardless, we also know that we had players open for big plays. He just missed them, with unusual inaccuracy. In many cases, he saw the receiver, in one case we know of, he didn't. However, he did try to push the ball down the field repeatedly. Many young QBs do this ..... they try to squeeze the ball into areas where they shouldn't. They have to learn. Also, he tried to hit Benjamin in 2 situations where he shouldn't have. He should learn from all of this as he goes along. I'm also not convinced that the 2nd Benjamin INT was 100% Weeden's fault, as Greg Little made the tackle on the DB a second after the INT. That far down the field, there is no way that 2 receivers should be that close together. That ball may have even been intended for Little, and Weeden just didn't see Benjamin in a spot he didn't belong.
Last year the QB played it extremely safe, almost never throwing the ball down the field. I do not believe that last year's QB would be throwing the ball down the field this year either. This year the QB is trying to do so.
For whatever reason, the QB and receivers just never seemed to be in sync last Sunday. I do expect this to improve as the season progresses.
Also, I said earlier, and I truly believe this ....... I would bet money that the emphasis this week was on getting the ball out in 2 seconds or less to help negate the Eagles pass rush. Perhaos there was an over-emphasis on this, which led to mistakes.
Anyway, either Weeden will improve, as I believe he will, or else he'll be a busted pick and we'll get to see Colt McCoy back under Center to see if he has truly improved as much as some believe.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Quote:
However, he had rookies at 2 WR spots, RT, RB, and 2nd year players at TE, FB, and LG. That's a ton of youth, and a ton of mistakes made across the board.
I thought the QB made everyone better?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,419 |
He can. On the other hand, if he makes rookie mistakes, and the rookies around him also make rookie mistakes, as I bet that almost every rookie playing in the last game did, then those all add up.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
Will you look at that...29 yr old, Jay Cutler, a veteran of 6 nfl seasons, THREW FOUR PICKS against the Packers last night.
BTW...didn't the Eagles Pro Bowl QB, Mike Vick, throw 4 picks against the Browns?
IT HAPPENS..
Weeden needs to learn from his mistakes, but as we can see when we take the time to look around...other QBs, experienced veterans, Pro Bowl caliber QBs, have issues with INTs from time to time.
The sky is not falling...Weeden is not junk...he is an inexperienced NFL rookie QB.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,858 |
Quote:
Will you look at that...29 yr old, Jay Cutler, a veteran of 6 nfl seasons, THREW FOUR PICKS against the Packers last night.
BTW...didn't the Eagles Pro Bowl QB, Mike Vick, throw 4 picks against the Browns?
IT HAPPENS..
Weeden needs to learn from his mistakes, but as we can see when we take the time to look around...other QBs, experienced veterans, Pro Bowl caliber QBs, have issues with INTs from time to time.
The sky is not falling...Weeden is not junk...he is an inexperienced NFL rookie QB.
Exactly why I'm not overly concerned yet. I expected mistakes, I expected them to not be very good at first. So what happened on Sunday didn't come as a shock therefore, I wasn't ready to slit my throat.
I was Most proud of the other side of the ball and our Special teams wasn't exactly slouchy either.
So, we know where the attention is needed.
Haden missing for the next 4 games isn't going to help us, but hopefully someone can step up.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
This whole thing is really funny when you start breaking down the mindset of this board as of late.
Mike Holmgren forced Old man weeden on poor Tom Heckert.
Weeden isn't a superstar because Shurmur is an idiot calling plays. If Shurmur had called better plays those passes wouldnt have sailed so high lol.
If we had drafted guards higher our offense would be kicking ass by now.
Schwartz was a bust and a horrible decision by Heckert until well he actually played a regular season game and did pretty good.
Our D really sucks and were only top 10 last year because teams knew we couldnt score. Our D still sucks because they didnt completely shut down Shady McCoy. Michael Vick only looked bad because well he sucks now. If Andy Reid wasn't a moron the Eagles would have killed the Browns.
O yea fun times being a Browns fan.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
and cutler still did better.
purely statistically, sure.
but, he was on the same level of awfulness. he had more passes that should have been picked, he was holding the ball forever which led to sacks and bad passes, and he did virtually nothing right all night.
however, he did have the advantage of the Packers having a huge cushion at the end, so he was able to rack up some garbage time stats (which he almost didn't do - that Terrell Pryor style duck he threw would have been picked off if anyone in GBs secondary was paying attention).
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
It's like in preseason, when there were people on here that said with a straight face that bad performances then had a meaning but good ones do not because "it's just preseason"...hilarious
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,517 |
Quote:
This whole thing is really funny when you start breaking down the mindset of this board as of late.
Mike Holmgren forced Old man weeden on poor Tom Heckert.
Weeden isn't a superstar because Shurmur is an idiot calling plays. If Shurmur had called better plays those passes wouldnt have sailed so high lol.
If we had drafted guards higher our offense would be kicking ass by now.
Schwartz was a bust and a horrible decision by Heckert until well he actually played a regular season game and did pretty good.
Our D really sucks and were only top 10 last year because teams knew we couldnt score. Our D still sucks because they didnt completely shut down Shady McCoy. Michael Vick only looked bad because well he sucks now. If Andy Reid wasn't a moron the Eagles would have killed the Browns.
O yea fun times being a Browns fan.
i have never seen a post so TRUE on this message board. well done, well done.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Schwartz was a bust and a horrible decision by Heckert until well he actually played a regular season game and did pretty good
well, i'm still waiting for that pretty good game 
he got abused on many plays by Babin, particularly on run plays.
Note: he should have gotten abused. he's a rookie OT going against a very good experienced DE. them's the breaks. my hope is that he gets better each week and is a solid starter by the end of the season. then a good one next season.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
Quote:
Didn't Shurmur state that the hiring of Childress didn't change the fact that Shurmur would still be calling the plays on offense?
He sure did!
He also said he felt fine entering the season with Colt at QB.
He also told us that Colt would get a fair shot at competing for the starting QB position and we pretty much knew he was lying there.
So how do you know when Shurmer is telling the truth or lying? Flip a coin?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
Quote:
Quote:
Didn't Shurmur state that the hiring of Childress didn't change the fact that Shurmur would still be calling the plays on offense?
He sure did!
He also said he felt fine entering the season with Colt at QB.
He also told us that Colt would get a fair shot at competing for the starting QB position and we pretty much knew he was lying there.
So how do you know when Shurmer is telling the truth or lying? Flip a coin?
Ive never heard a coach come out at a presser and say he dis-liked his QB.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
What I'm going about to say it's meant to insult, only enforce a point...
It still amazes me that after all these years fans willingly take the words the talking heads say and take them as factual and the truth.
One day I hope people will finally realize that they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't lie. 
They have to lie to protect players on the cusp of failure.
They have to lie to protect the owner.
They have to lie to protect their game plans from other teams.
And as crazy as it sounds, they have to lie to protect the fans.
The trick is separating the facts from the fiction in their words. If a fan cannot do that, it's best if he just doesn't believe any of it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
Quote:
This whole thing is really funny when you start breaking down the mindset of this board as of late.
Mike Holmgren forced Old man weeden on poor Tom Heckert.
Yeah, I don't really buy that line either.
Quote:
Weeden isn't a superstar because Shurmur is an idiot calling plays. If Shurmur had called better plays those passes wouldnt have sailed so high lol.
Now that's a pure line of BS there. We haven't seen enough of the playcalling this year to know whether Shurmer will ever call anything but a run aup the middle on 1st and 10, if he has actually learned how to run a playclock and can actually call a misdirection play once in a while.
Weeden had a terrible game and we would have won that game if he'd only have played a little better.
But don't sit here and act like Weeden is the only problem the Browns have. If Shurmer doesn't do a 180 from last year, he still isn't fit to coach in the NFL.
Quote:
If we had drafted guards higher our offense would be kicking ass by now.
It's not about where they were drafted. It's about being able to run block. So far, if they can, they sure haven't shown much of it. All I care about is if a guy can play his position. Not where he was drafted.
Quote:
Schwartz was a bust and a horrible decision by Heckert until well he actually played a regular season game and did pretty good.
Pretty good? You must be color blind and were watching the wrong team!
I totaly disagree with those trying to judge Shwartz based on one game. But against Philly, the speed killed him all day long. I do think he has a pretty good skill set and will improve. You can't judge any rookie based on his first NFL game.
But to say he was pretty good in that game? A gross overstatement to say the least.
Quote:
Our D really sucks and were only top 10 last year because teams knew we couldnt score. Our D still sucks because they didnt completely shut down Shady McCoy. Michael Vick only looked bad because well he sucks now. If Andy Reid wasn't a moron the Eagles would have killed the Browns.
So far our D hasn't proven they can stop the run. All the BS in the world won't change that.
Quote:
O yea fun times being a Browns fan.
Well..... Sometimes reality bites.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
I agree with you 100%. I also believe that they lie about the inner workings of the organization and coaching staff. That they will not disclose what really goes on behind the scnes. Not just for the sake of lying to the fans, but mainly for the sake of keeping things hush hush to their oponents. If Chiily really is doing the game plans or the play calls, we probably wouldn't know that. They probably wouldn't tell us. To go yet another step, people need to remember this is a corporation. Corporations do not tell the public what goes on behind the scenes. I'm not actually trying to fault them for this, but rather point out that often times teams ( corporations ), say the politicly correct things. They say what they want you to know, how they want you to think things are going, and put the best spin on things they can. Like saying Weeden was ready. What else could they say? I may have given a false impression and if I did, that was not my intent. They have a product to sell to the fans. It's their job to make things sound as good as posiible. I don't fault them for that. I simply know it happens and often times you really have no way of knowing what is and isn't the truth. And if you say you have some magic formula for distinguishing the difference, then we totaly disagree there. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692 |
Quote:
Quote:
Didn't Shurmur state that the hiring of Childress didn't change the fact that Shurmur would still be calling the plays on offense?
He sure did!
He also said he felt fine entering the season with Colt at QB.
He also told us that Colt would get a fair shot at competing for the starting QB position and we pretty much knew he was lying there.
So how do you know when Shurmer is telling the truth or lying? Flip a coin?
Well, the way Shurmur is buried in the play sheet when the offense is on the field; I can tell who's calling the plays.
My question is what does Childress actually do and what is his role on this team? Maybe this should have its own thread.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
Will you look at that...29 yr old, Jay Cutler, a veteran of 6 nfl seasons, THREW FOUR PICKS against the Packers last night.
BTW...didn't the Eagles Pro Bowl QB, Mike Vick, throw 4 picks against the Browns?
IT HAPPENS..
Weeden needs to learn from his mistakes, but as we can see when we take the time to look around...other QBs, experienced veterans, Pro Bowl caliber QBs, have issues with INTs from time to time.
The sky is not falling...Weeden is not junk...he is an inexperienced NFL rookie QB.
In the Pro Bowl season you mention for Vick, he only threw more than 1 INT once all year. Jay Cutler is overrated as hell. The average NFL QB rating last year was 84.3. Cutler's career rating is 83.9. It definitely happens to all QBs but it happens to the mediocre/bad ones a LOT more than it does the good ones.
The problem is, Weeden is just not ready to start. Observers have said it, fans have noticed it and his play indicates it. He didn't even complete 50% of his passes in the pre-season, fumbled 3 times to go along with a pick and didn't score once. What we saw last Sunday was just an extension of the knocks on him coming out of college and his pre-season struggles. Go figure... stinking at baseball and starting in a non-NFL style system for 2 years don't prepare a guy for the NFL.  It's just a bad situation all around.
- If we keep playing Weeden when he's flat out not ready, we could destroy him mentally. He already got booed Week 1, he's already the butt of national jokes and I doubt more struggles are going to help things.
- It's hard to justify sitting Weeden to let him learn because he'll be 29 next month.
- Our front office and Shurmur are committed to playing Weeden because they're the ones who took the boneheaded gamble and forced him in the 1st. Their jobs likely depend on his performance.
Look, I want to see Weeden succeed as much as the next guy because I am freaking sick and tired of the QB carousel. I'm not willing, however, to just ignore everything we've seen so far and say that everything is OK and he'll be fine in a few more starts because it makes me feel better than to say we may be screwed.
He'll be better vs. Cincinnati because he can't be much worse but there are serious, legitimate problems with his game right now and they're not the kind that go away with a game or two of experience... rather, they're the kind that if a player is forced to struggle through too early can ruin him.
This is why you don't take a 29 year old rookie in the 1st round unless he's an absolute superstar. It just invites this kind of chaos, second guessing, hard decisions and bad times for all involved.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
Quote:
What I'm going about to say it's meant to insult, only enforce a point...
It still amazes me that after all these years fans willingly take the words the talking heads say and take them as factual and the truth.
One day I hope people will finally realize that they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't lie.
They have to lie to protect players on the cusp of failure.
They have to lie to protect the owner.
They have to lie to protect their game plans from other teams.
And as crazy as it sounds, they have to lie to protect the fans.
The trick is separating the facts from the fiction in their words. If a fan cannot do that, it's best if he just doesn't believe any of it.
They aren't lying - they are selling and marketing a product.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
They aren't lying - they are selling and marketing a product.
how are those 2 things different?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
One is lying, the other is just "good business".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Quote:
After all these years of self abuse, I can't tear myself away on Sundays! It's an affliction and addiction!
I can't tear myself away on Sundays, either.
I do, however, watch the game with a less intense attitude.
5 years ago, I wouldn't get up for another beer unless it was a commercial.
This year? We're in the red zone? Who cares, my beer is empty. To the fridge I go!
Yea, I noticed myself on Sunday sitting with my feet up on the coffee table during critical points of the game.. in years past I would have been sitting up on the edge of my seat ready to jump up and down. I just don't expect to be able to jump up and down any more I guess so I just make myself comfortable.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
Quote:
Well, the way Shurmur is buried in the play sheet when the offense is on the field; I can tell who's calling the plays.
I think the jury is still out on whether he's burried in it, or burried by it. The rest of this season will give us a strong indication of which one that is exactly.
Quote:
My question is what does Childress actually do and what is his role on this team? Maybe this should have its own thread.
Well if he's not doing the game planning and not calling plays, why did they hire him? A "consultant"? I would think not, considering his experience compared to our HC's.
I know what "the company line" is, but not sure of the actual facts on the matter.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Barring the consistent 1st and 10 runs up the middle.
I think Shurmur called a really good game last week.
If Weeden connects with Mass in the Endzone, and Little holds onto the ball, we practically blow out Philly, and everyones talking up the up and coming Browns team...
If players execute, the play calling is good.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,692 |
Quote:
Barring the consistent 1st and 10 runs up the middle.
I think Shurmur called a really good game last week.
If Weeden connects with Mass in the Endzone, and Little holds onto the ball, we practically blow out Philly, and everyones talking up the up and coming Browns team...
If players execute, the play calling is good.
I'm, by no means, calling Shurmur out on his play calling...yet. LOL. No you guys are right, he called a fairly decent game. I, personally, would have liked to see more screens or pitches on 1 and 10 a little more and see what TR can do on the edge; but, apparently that wasn't part of our game plan. If Weeden connects on some of those overthrows then Shurmur looks like a good coordinator. I do remember watching the games last year tearing out my hair with the playing calling on offense. In that aspect, at least in game 1, Shurmur does look slightly improved.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,165 |
In my not so humble opinion, WAY, WAY, WAY too much is made of "play calling". It's like the favorite thing for people to pick on a coach for and everyone doing the nitpicking has absolutely no insight into what the coaching staff is seeing or thinking. I say this: If the play succeeds, or had a chance to succeed barring poor execution - it was a good call. If the play had no chance at all to succeed even with perfect execution, it was a bad call. Now, flame away with all of your one-off scenarios and coffin-cases
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
The only play calling situation I had a problem with is right after Trent DESTORY'd Kurt Coleman..
I was SCREAMING for a Play Action, because Philly was DEAD SET on SELLING OUT for the run...
Even a quick slant, Hell if you look at the play Weeden could of snuck for 3 yards if he and Mack just ran forward...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
in most cases, I agree. in some cases though, it seems like coaches are ahead of the game.
Dallas was getting killed on 5step drops vs. NYG wk1, so Garrett switched Romo to pure 3step drops and apparently told him he had to get rid of the ball on the count after his 3rd step hit.
result was the NYG DL not having time to get to Romo and the outmatched NYG DBs getting torched.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
Quote:
In my not so humble opinion, WAY, WAY, WAY too much is made of "play calling".
I think we may actually have a way of judging that.
Let's just watch the Saints this year.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
Quote:
Barring the consistent 1st and 10 runs up the middle.
I think Shurmur called a really good game last week.
If Weeden connects with Mass in the Endzone, and Little holds onto the ball, we practically blow out Philly, and everyones talking up the up and coming Browns team...
If players execute, the play calling is good.
I didn't think he did a bad job last week. But we do have to mix things up on first down. More screen passes and some misdirection plays would help to mix things up as well.
I guess often times it's not about the initial plays that are called in many cases. It's often times how you react to the oposing D's way of stopping your game plan. Whether you can make half time adjustments when the need calls for it.
That's why just like I am willing to give Weeden the season to see how he reacts and grows, the same can be said for Shurmer. Let's let the season be played out and then and only then do I feel we can see the big picture.
I would no more judge Shurmer on one game than I would Weeden.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
I would no more judge Shurmer on one game than I would Weeden.
How about 17?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
How about 16 games over a 17 week period?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,064
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,064 |
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
How about 16 games over a 17 week period?
Ludicrous!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
It's obvious to point out weeden had a terrible game week 1. It's obvious to look at the poor clock management and what I consider less than stellar playcalling last year. It's not hard to see that our OL has been very poor in the run blocking department. Nor is it hard to see that our DL and LB'ers have been poor at stopping the run. Some people act as though there is only one problem or two problems here. No, there are more problems than that. Each one needs to be watched and addressed as needed. But the hand has been dealt and the season is under way. All we can really do is watch and see how things progress over the course of the season and go from there IMO. I'm glad some people on this board actually understand that concept.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 582 |
Quote:
This whole thing is really funny when you start breaking down the mindset of this board as of late.
Schwartz was a bust and a horrible decision by Heckert until well he actually played a regular season game and did pretty good.
As far as Schwartz, i saw him in camp twice getting his butt kicked by EVERYBODY, and looking pretty down about it. I thought he was a great choice (finally! a Right Tackle!) until i saw that with my own eyes. I thought he looked pretty overwhelmed, not even close to being ready to start, and it showed in the preseason.
It wasnt just a "down on the guy thing". I wanted to report what i saw. And what i saw wasnt good for a high draft pick.
But, he's a rookie and he'll get better. And he played ok the other day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
If we win 2-4 games total, most people will look back and be "happy" that the Philly game didn't affect our draft position. Some will say had we won it, we could of used to to build upon for a great season. I'm somewhere in the middle. I hate the "Wait and see" aspect, but 1. What can I really do? 2. I think we could surprise some people late this year. If the Defense keeps up the intensity, and Weeden reaches "Average NFL Starter" material I think a win this week is important however, even if we come out and play "well" eventually losing catches up to you, and you aren't as focused. Plus it's the Bengals.
Last edited by OSGuy; 09/14/12 04:42 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
Schwartz played a pretty good game. He was going against Babin and he negated Babin in all but a couple plays against the run. No one bothers to mention the times when Schwartz absolutely buried him. Hell he outplayed Joe Thomas if anyone wants to be honest about it.
now as for us against the run, we were in pass protection mode and then aggressively attacking the ball if handed off. That is not an easy way to play defense and you will give up some yards but these guys were outstanding.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
NRTU.
The most telling stat about our run-game comes from Jamie Hemmsley at ESPN:
Quote:
Trent Richardson needs help: The Browns' rookie running back has been having a one-on-one verbal battle with Bengals middle linebacker Rey Maualuga this week. But Richardson won't be able to beat Cincinnati's run defense alone. In his NFL debut, Richardson rushed for 39 yards, which led to Maualuga describing Richardson's game as "nothing spectacular." Richardson's ineffectiveness was the result of getting hit in the backfield on seven of his 19 carries, according to ESPN Stats & Information. That was tied for most in the NFL for Week 1. Richardson lost 4 yards on those rushes but gained 43 yards on the 12 carries (3.6-yard average) when he wasn't hit behind the line.
For those who aren't math wizards, Richardson was hit in the backfield on 38% of his attempted running plays.
Two things have to happen and happen quickly:
1) The line has to block better, and
2) Weeden will have to look like the supposed NFL-ready QB he was touted as being.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Brandon Weeden Disaster thread
moved - part 2
|
|
![[Linked Image from dcptest.com]](http://www.dcptest.com/kelly64.jpg)