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What foundation? I don't see a foundation. I see a bunch of promises and wishful thinking, but I sure don't see a foundation.
need more time to process this team, but the "foundation" would be the following. anyone not listed is completely expendable at best and need to be replaced soon at worst. some of those listed on the foundation need more time to prove they belong on the list (like Gordon).
offense
Thomas, Mack, Schwartz, Weeden, Richardson, Little, Gordon, Benjamin, Cameron
defense
DQ, Ward, Haden, Rubin, Taylor, Sheard
It's not a long list, but it is a list and should be players that remain with the team no matter what happens with the FO/coaching staff.
#gmstrong
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you don't even recognize the 5 yr rebuilding plan.
mac, what level of success in that magical 5th year do you think would signify success? It's a legit question... I know we have about the youngest team in the league and I do see more talent than we have had since our return and I do see some of the cornerstones of our improvement in place... I think I fall somewhere between the "blow it all up now" people and the "don't change a thing" people... but I'd like to know, assuming we stay the course, in year 5 would you consider a successful year? Competing to get in the playoffs? Getting in and competing to go deeper? Super bowl appearance?
yebat' Putin
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Can you point to where Haslem says he won't make a change? Or where he says that Pat Shurmur is his guy?
You're right that Haslem believes in consistency, however if he and Joe Banner feel that the current regime isn't good enough and won't be able to turn the franchise around they will make a change. And that hire will be important because they/he will be here for a long time and from that point on the franchise will remain consistent.
That is all I take from what he has said. Plain and simple, if Pat and Tom are not guys he feels comfortable running his team that he paid a billion dollars for they will be gone. He didn't hire them and has no obligation to keep them.
Now if he does what Mike did and keeps them for next year and then gets rid of them you can call him a hypocrite. But if he comes in and thinks this isn't the management to get us to where we need to be I don't see how you can call him a hypocrite. He has the right to put "His" people in place.
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Can you point to where Haslem says he won't make a change? Or where he says that Pat Shurmur is his guy?
Dude, don't bother.
Mac didn't understand what Haslam said when he said it.
Mac didn't understand it when myself, DC, and a bunch of others corrected him.
Mac doesn't understand it now, and what's worse, he's becoming a parrot by repeating a dead discussion.
Here's what happened. Mac twisted Haslam's words to make them say what he wanted them to be, in spite of numerous people telling him he was wrong. Mac stated that Haslam agreed with his words, which were that he would be sticking with the 5-year plan.  Then something bad happened: Reports came out that Haslam would likely replace current people with his own, and suddenly Mac became embarrassed. He then stated Haslam was a hypocrite. So now Mac is on a warpath attacking the new owner because of a point he never made. 
Again, Mac, you cannot be a hypocrite if you never said anything. 
Here's a challenge for you, Mac: Pick out Haslam's quote, post it, and tell us exactly what it means. I'd like you to be crystal clear with what he said, what you think it means, and how it makes him a hypocrite...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
Can you point to where Haslem says he won't make a change? Or where he says that Pat Shurmur is his guy?
Dude, don't bother.
Mac didn't understand what Haslam said when he said it.
Mac didn't understand it when myself, DC, and a bunch of others corrected him.
Mac doesn't understand it now, and what's worse, he's becoming a parrot by repeating a dead discussion.
Here's what happened. Mac twisted Haslam's words to make them say what he wanted them to be, in spite of numerous people telling him he was wrong. Mac stated that Haslam agreed with his words, which were that he would be sticking with the 5-year plan. Then something bad happened: Reports came out that Haslam would likely replace current people with his own, and suddenly Mac became embarrassed. He then stated Haslam was a hypocrite. So now Mac is on a warpath attacking the new owner because of a point he never made.
Again, Mac, you cannot be a hypocrite if you never said anything.
Here's a challenge for you, Mac: Pick out Haslam's quote, post it, and tell us exactly what it means. I'd like you to be crystal clear with what he said, what you think it means, and how it makes him a hypocrite...
For the record, Haslam hasn't said much of anything about what his intentions are regarding staff other then to say he won't say what his intentions are until after ownership is turned over to him.
He HAS said he likes consistency. But he didn't say he'd stick with those onboard now and we can't assume he'll stick with what's here. Consistency can also be described as picking HIS OWN GUYS and sticking with them.
I myself have pointed to his and his fathers positive comments regarding Holmgren as a potential tell as to what they intend to do, but we know how that works
Haslam: Mike we love you but bye
Holmgren: I didn't want to be here anyway.. pay me and I'm out the door. Let's just tell everyone that I've decided to retire
Haslam: Sounds like a plan
I should also point out that the only reports we have of Banner being involved are speculation by the press. It was reported that Banner was involved to some extent in finalizing the offer to Lerner.. But I can't seem to find out who said that. I thought it was Banner himself, but then, I can't find that either,. maybe I"m looking in the wrong place..we'll see I guess.
Here's a fact for all of you:
We don't know what Haslam has in mind because Haslam hasn't said. It appears he hasn't leaked anything to the press.
So, what can we conclude from all of this? Not a damn thing We're gonna have to settle down and wait and see.
I've said it before and I"m sticking with it, the only person on the chopping block right away (if at all) is Holmgren. If Haslam wants Heckert and Shurmur gone, he won't do it until the end of the season. And part of the decision might just be the record at the end of the year.
As dumb as this is going to sound and as improbable as this is going to sound, the Browns could still end up 13-3. If they did, do you really think Haslam would dump Heckert and Shurmur? I do not.
Hell, 8-8 probably saves their jobs to be honest and given where they started, it should.
JMO
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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8-8???
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8-8???
I"m not sure what you are laughing at,, the Browns going 8-8 or that record saving Shurmur and Heckert? mind enlightening me?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Your right it would save them...Im laughing at the thought of the team I saw on Sunday going 8-8.
Id say more then saving his job...coach of the year maybe?
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The actually achieving 8-8 is quite obviously the source of the humor.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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8-8???
I"m not sure what you are laughing at,, the Browns going 8-8 or that record saving Shurmur and Heckert? mind enlightening me?
I find it ironic that the king of the ROFL gets hit with one and doesn't understand the meaning behind it.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Toad...here, you tell everyone what this means...
Quote:
One thing Haslam has judged -- critically -- very early is the Browns' coaching merry-go-round. "They've averaged a new coach once every 2.8 years [since the franchise returned to Cleveland in 1999],'' Haslam told me, "and that's just not a good recipe.'' Do the math: Excluding interim coach Terry Robiskie in relief of Butch Davis in 2004, Cleveland's had five head coach in the 14 seasons between 1999 and 2012 -- 2.8 seasons per coach.
"One thing I learned from watching the Steelers is the importance of consistency in coaching, and how much it sets you back when you're always making a change. When you change coaches, it can be a three- or four-year deal to get back.''
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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And nowhere does that suggest that he will keep Pat Shurmur. Just that the coach he decides on should get time, be it Shumur or someone else.
you had a good run Hank.
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We don't know what Haslam has in mind because Haslam hasn't said. It appears he hasn't leaked anything to the press.
daman...something else we need to consider...if we are talking and wondering what Haslam is going to do...so are the players.
Every player on the roster is wondering what changes are going to be made after Haslam takes over. The truth is, this change in ownership could not have come at a worse time for this young team.
I have no doubt that the players are doing all they can to perform to their coaches expectations. I also believe the players realize, come next season, they may be learning another new playbook and trying to learn another a new offensive and defensive system with a different coaching staff.
Players talk to the players on other teams, too. All the talk in the media about Holmgren being replaced by Joe Banner...the players talk about this stuff among themselves and also with the players on other teams.
You think anyone ask Sheldon Brown what this guy "Joe Banner" is like? Just a reminder, among the Eagles' players, Banner was not liked..Banner was known as the most hated man in Philly. Banner is and was a "bean counter"...trying to use his power over contract negotiations to shape the Eagles roster the way Banner wanted, not what Andy Reid wanted...that is what got Banner fired earlier this year.
Mike Holmgren is a man who can relate to the players and coaches because he played football in HS and college and coached at every level, taking two teams to the Super Bowl and winning one.
Joe Banner is a bean counter who has been in charge of negotiating player contracts and salary cap issues for 14 yrs with the Eagles. Joe Banner was never in charge of player personnel or hiring a coaching staff.
If we are talking about these issues...so are the players and coaches...
All of this landed on the team with a big thud, at the worst possible time...just before the season started...and it has to be on everyone's mind.
Many of us have discussed the issue of constant change within the franchise, knowing what it does to the franchise...we have all lived it since 1999.
Just when we thought we had some stability in the franchise...it's gone, just like that...and the constant change will continue for years to come. All of these players know it's coming...CHANGE...and they know the future is uncertain...for them and for their coaches.
...again, it has to be on everyone's mind...something else to consider when judging this very young team.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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You don't know there will be change for years to come.
We just lost our 3rd game this season......8th or 9th in a row since last year.
At some point you have to see some results. I know it makes us feel good to talk about a real rebuild, but is it??
Rebuilding means getting better doesn't it?? To me it should.
Are we?? If you think so, prove it. Show me the results of our efforts.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Not saying this is what I want to happen, but this is what I think happens over the course of the offseason. I don't know if anyone gets canned during the year. That never really does any good.
I think Mike Holmgren is gone, although he will be outed gracefully.
Pat Shurmur is definitely gone.
Tom Heckert is probably gone.
Who takes over? I have no idea. I couldn't even give you a solid guess.
I also think this is probably Josh Cribbs' last year in Cleveland, probably Fujita as well.
As far as everyone else, I think the majority of guys who see significant time will stick around. They're all young, and with few exceptions these guys aren't injury prone, as far as NFL'ers go.
I think Pat has really handled himself well. I honestly don't care how he answers questions, or if he bores reporters, I don't think he should be graded by that, and I think it's stupid when other people do.
He's had a good mentality, but it would take a miracle for him to save his job.
If and when we change coaches, can we please get this right? How about a guy with better experience? I see nothing wrong with a first time coach, but he should have more, and better experience than Pat Shurmur did coming in.
I know people want continuity for the sake of continuity, because we see it in the rest of the AFCN, but you have to stop making horrible decisions on people to run this team.
You can't just keep a guy to keep a guy because you "are tired of blowing it up every few years"
How's continuity working for the baseball organization down the street.
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We may or may not have the right bricks but our mortar is still very soupy.
#GMSTRONG
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How's continuity working for the baseball organization down the street.
Ouch! 
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Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Spelled "Holmgren" wrong. It's "H-O-L-G-R-E-M".
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my favorite part was that Palmer was so bad that we don't even blame him for it (at least that's how I read it)
#gmstrong
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Spelled "Holmgren" wrong. It's "H-O-L-G-R-E-M".
I see what you did there...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Toad...here, you tell everyone what this means...
Quote:
One thing Haslam has judged -- critically -- very early is the Browns' coaching merry-go-round. "They've averaged a new coach once every 2.8 years [since the franchise returned to Cleveland in 1999],'' Haslam told me, "and that's just not a good recipe.'' Do the math: Excluding interim coach Terry Robiskie in relief of Butch Davis in 2004, Cleveland's had five head coach in the 14 seasons between 1999 and 2012 -- 2.8 seasons per coach.
"One thing I learned from watching the Steelers is the importance of consistency in coaching, and how much it sets you back when you're always making a change. When you change coaches, it can be a three- or four-year deal to get back.''
No, YOU tell us what it means.
You've moaned and groaned and bellyached and bitched about what YOU think he's saying, so please, enlighten us all by telling us exactly what it is that Haslam is saying, and why YOU say he's a hypocrite.
I think you're backed into a corner and are trying to squirm out. Well too late on that, buddy, because you're going to be held accountable and answerable to your words.
If you so desire not to answer, then I sure as Hell don't wanna ever hear how Haslam is a hypocrite again out of you.
You've used that term to death. Now you have to answer for it, or you have to shut your yap.
Now you do have an out, but it'll still mean you have to admit you're wrong. The only way you can squirm out of this one by saving even a little face is to admit he wouldn't be a hypocrite, but rather you are just upset with him if he doesn't follow your fantastical and mystical 5-year plan.
So think very clearly and choose your words even more carefully...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I figured this fits well here. web page
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Bottom line? This team has as many holes as it did when Holmgren took over.
I'm no Holmgren fan but that's so BS...when he took over he had JT, Mack, Rubin and an injured (missed 2 seasons, career seemed to be over) Dqwell as AVG or better players....I mean, THAT was all...which in return means we needed 18/19 new starters AND depth that was old as fart thanks to Uncle Eric's "process"
Anybody thinks we need over 18 new starters today? I come up with 6 or 7 at best: FS, CB, OLB, DE, TE, FB and G...let's give the doubters WR and QB too and we're at 9
We're currently missing 3 of our best D players in Haden, Taylor and Gocong, so the lack of depth gets exposed too
and if this article comes up with Hardesty and Marecic as biggest "busts" in 3 drafts then Heckert did a great job as both were 3rd+5th and late 4th investments respectively...maybe the author should check on some of the "great teams" and look how many "busts" they've picked MUCH earlier...for me a "bust" is a failed Top 50 selection....pretty much everything after that, and most drafts after top 20-30 picks already, are boom/bust prospects or decent, overachieving College players with marginal ceiling
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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The players the coaches and the FO should all be wondering what will happen when haslam takes over.
BUT, they have the ability to fix it. Win and it's funny how problems seem to disappear.
Haslam has said the same things that every GM, every President, Every Coach and every player has said in the last 13 years.
We're gonna fix this thing and get on a winning track.
Not a damn thing new in what haslam is saying then what anyone that has come before him has said.
The only things that make me think maybe,, just maybe he can do it, is he's run a very successful business and he's sat at the table and listened and watched what a sound football operation is run like.
Another positive is, he essentially left his job, hired someone to do it and the expectation is he'll spend more time here. That may be a demonstration of his commitment to the Browns.
He admits to NOT being a football guru. So, to be successful, he needs to have people run the organization that know what they are doing and then stand back and watch with your finger on the pulse. Be in the public eye to an extent etc.
The question is, who are those people he'll bring in,, the ones we have, Banner and the folks he brings in?
The team can go a long way to ending speculation on some of those things,, Just win and that will be that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No, YOU tell us what it means.
toad...not a problem...just for you...
First, Haslam is being...critical and judgmental of the "coaching merry go round" in Cleveland, since the team returned in 1999, going as far to name each coach the Browns have had since 99.
Haslam "did the math" and pointed out the Browns change coaches every 2.8 yrs and Haslam concludes..."it's not a good recipe", Haslam says...which means IT'S BAD TO CHANGE COACHES EVERY 2.8 YRS.
It should also be noted who Haslam passing judgement on...Haslam is criticizing Al and Randy Lerner...it's the owner who makes the final call to change coaches.
Second paragraph..as a minority owner of the Steelers, Haslam learned the "importance of consistency in coaching" and "it sets a team back" when they are changing coaches often.
Haslam goes as far as putting a number on how far it sets a team back if they change coaches...it can set a team back 3 or 4 yrs if they make a coaching change.
Now, concerning "hypocrisy"...IMO, if an owner criticizes and judges another owner because they changed coaches too often (2.8 yrs), then the first thing the new owner does is change coaches...that "is hypocrisy" at it's best.
In the simplest terms...if NFL owners do xyz...it's bad and sets the team back.
We have to wait to see what Haslam does...does he set the team back by changing coaches?...or...does he try to promote consistency by not changing coaches?
NOW TOAD, YOUR TURN...what does this mean...
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One thing Haslam has judged -- critically -- very early is the Browns' coaching merry-go-round. "They've averaged a new coach once every 2.8 years [since the franchise returned to Cleveland in 1999],'' Haslam told me, "and that's just not a good recipe.'' Do the math: Excluding interim coach Terry Robiskie in relief of Butch Davis in 2004, Cleveland's had five head coach in the 14 seasons between 1999 and 2012 -- 2.8 seasons per coach.
"One thing I learned from watching the Steelers is the importance of consistency in coaching, and how much it sets you back when you're always making a change. When you change coaches, it can be a three- or four-year deal to get back.''
Last edited by mac; 09/25/12 08:33 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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So what?
He judged critically the coaching and management merry go round,
I don't see where that means he's sticking with what's here any more than it means he's tossing out everyone and starting over.
Like I said, It don't mean a thing.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I see us as legitimately needing one more (meaning one more NFL PLAYER) at each of these positions before we start being competitive:
S, CB, OLB, DE, WR, G, TE
And of course QB is up to debate obviously (I'm in the group who believes Weeden will never be the answer).
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
I see us as legitimately needing one more (meaning one more NFL PLAYER) at each of these positions before we start being competitive:
S, CB, OLB, DE, WR, G, TE
And of course QB is up to debate obviously (I'm in the group who believes Weeden will never be the answer).
Funny thing, people said that same thing about Brett Favre...LOL Difference, brett was much younger and had time to develop. Weeden doesn't have that kinda time.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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To be brutally honest, I actually do think Weeden has the arm and potential accuracy to make it in this league. However, there is one part of his game that is his biggest drawback: his feet. He has terrible feet ... like worst in the league awful. He cannot extend plays or shift in the pocket. He is basically a statue after the snap. This is all well and good when the pocket is perfect, but it rarely is.
I guess what I'm saying is ... Weeden's a stiff.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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All that tortured Browns fans can hope for is that Haslam realizes that the current plan isn't working and takes immediate steps to fix it.
peen...above, from the article...
Anyone that expected the Browns to instantly become a winning team with a rookie QB, RB, RT, 2 Wrs is suffering from "unrealistic expectations".
Same thing on this board...the sky is falling, the sky is falling...doom and gloom...factory of sadness...what did you expect from this team?
Browns fans have to blame someone...because they do not have the common sense to realize what building a team via the draft entails.
The Browns drafted for defense the first two years of the rebuild and drafted for offense this season. Now the players drafted on offense have to gain enough NFL experience to win.
Problem in Cleveland, they never see a plan through...Haslam got that right.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I'll tell you what it means to me. He is being critical of a person hiring a coach and only sticking with a system for 2.8 years and then blowing it up. Obviously that isn't a recipe for success.
However, Haslem didn't hire the current regime. They are not his guys. So (IMO) what he means in his comment is that once he gets his guys in place they will be here for a long time and we are going to stick to a plan/system/regime/coach.
And I'll say this, if the Browns are winless when Haslem takes over, Pat and Mike might be gone on the same day.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
Quote:
I'll tell you what it means to me. He is being critical of a person hiring a coach and only sticking with a system for 2.8 years and then blowing it up. Obviously that isn't a recipe for success.
However, Haslem didn't hire the current regime. They are not his guys. So (IMO) what he means in his comment is that once he gets his guys in place they will be here for a long time and we are going to stick to a plan/system/regime/coach.
And I'll say this, if the Browns are winless when Haslem takes over, Pat and Mike might be gone on the same day.
 +1 Why is this logic even debated? Haslem will put into place what he feels is a winning organization and then he will be patient and let them succeed.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,871 |
Quote:
To be brutally honest, I actually do think Weeden has the arm and potential accuracy to make it in this league. However, there is one part of his game that is his biggest drawback: his feet. He has terrible feet ... like worst in the league awful. He cannot extend plays or shift in the pocket. He is basically a statue after the snap. This is all well and good when the pocket is perfect, but it rarely is.
I guess what I'm saying is ... Weeden's a stiff.
Could be.. for me he's way to new to rate. See some really good stuff, then I see some really bad stuff. But that's always the way it is with Rooks no matter what age they are.
SO he could turn out to be Brett Favre or Joe Schmo..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
I see us as legitimately needing one more (meaning one more NFL PLAYER) at each of these positions before we start being competitive:
S, CB, OLB, DE, WR, G, TE
And of course QB is up to debate obviously (I'm in the group who believes Weeden will never be the answer).
when I first saw this list I was thinking you could probably take TE off that list.
CB we will know for sure if any of our young guys start getting it with all the playing time they are going to get.
Heden being out and Brown finally moving to the nickel really hurt us at that pos.
I like our young LB's, now are they going to be great or just excellent depth remains to be seen.
Gordon is raw at best but has the talent. Still hes going to need a year. Mo Mass has finally started to show he can play. Benji also looks like hes a legit NFL WR.
I feel if Little can stop dropping balls we could have a reatlly strong WR core.
These kids just need time and we will know alot more about them at season end then today for sure.
The real problem with your list is, for the most part if we are picking top 3 most those positions are not T3 worthy picks. QB would of course be.
I could debate that the plan is working, because our needs are slowly moving farther down in the draft.
Now someone asked about should be expected of the plan. I honestly expect us to make a huge jump next year. The jump everyone wants to see. Somewhere in the 7-10wins range. The year after that which would be the actual start of year 5 I would expect to contend for the playoffs and beyond.
After that we just add the pieces where needed to be hunting for our Superbowl.
I feel like we are 2 years away from being where Houston was last year.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,442
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,442 |
So let me ask you this, do you see the same lack of athleticism that I do?
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,442
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73,442 |
The WR is the one area that I was hoping to see a lot of improvement this season. I'll agree that MoMass has stepped up his game, but Gordon looks completely lost .. and Little appears like he will always be inconsistent. WRs like that (who struggle to catch it) rarely improve.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
Fun fact: Weeden is only 4 months younger than Derek Anderson.
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