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His point was its not happening, my point was that it was. I showed proof to back up my point. The problem is what exactly?
And yes, part of my evidence to support my claim was that after the judge gave them exact steps that would allow ID to be required while also being fair to the poor, they decided to appeal instead. This suggests what their motivation was.
edit: And to your question, I have no problem with requiring ID to vote as long as it isn't being used in a way that purposefully prevents a segment of the population from voting. I'm against poll taxes and literacy tests also. Also not a fan of gerrymandering.
I kinda missed some of the conversation so excuse me if I screw this up but, what does being poor have to do with a voter ID?
I mean, even poor people have a Birth Cert. Depending on the nature of the birth, there may be instances where they have to do some digging to get that information, but it's there.
Even adopted kids have birth Certs. Opening those files may pose a problem but for the purposes of birth rite, I don't see a problem with it.
Now I'm one that thinks that issuance of a Voter Registeration ID should be free. I know I know, who's gonna pay for the cost of preparing them. I get that but a person that can't afford it shouldn't be denied an ID just because they don't have few bucks one would cost.
Let me say something here, maybe it's out of context, but really, who among us wants people to vote that aren't registered voters? I'm not talking politicians here. I think there are those that want certain groups of people to NOT be allowed to vote. I get that, but I'm talking about you and me. Don't we want only those allowed to vote voting
Don't we all (I"m talking us citizens other then politicians) want a fair election?
Someone explain to me what I'm missing by wanting everyone to be required to have a voter ID proving they are allowed to vote and proving who they are?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The only people that don't have an ID are those that most likely couldn't legally vote in the first place.
These are the actual percentages of adults with no ID. Are you claiming that "they all couldn't legally vote in the first place"?
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Daman, see my post right below yours that shows who the adults are that have no ID. You'll notice its the demographics that usually favor Democrats. If we lived in an ideal world where every eligible voter had ID, I'd be all for showing IDs to vote. However, we are from that and as it stands, voter ID laws disenfranchise minorities, the elderly,
And the poor. And as I have pointed out numerous times, voter fraud is largely non-existent.
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Legend
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26th Amendment: The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
Is it too much to prove your a citizen?
IDs are not being refused to those folks, it is their own choice not to obtain one.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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and they talk about the inconvenience of having to ride the bus or multiple busses to get there to obtain an ID.. what are we talking? Once every 2 years to get it and then have it renewed?
It's a totally disingenuous argument by the left to use it as a political wedge to show how the right hates them and wants to suppress their vote... I guarantee you that if you put their food stamps and welfare check across town they would find a way to get to it.
yebat' Putin
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I guarantee you that if you put their food stamps and welfare check across town they would find a way to get to it.
You mean poor people who depend on government benefits for such luxuries as food and shelter would go to extraordinary lengths to ensure they don't starve to death? What a shocking revelation. 
People shouldn't have to go through extraordinary circumstances to get an ID especially for an ISSUE THAT IS LARGELY NON-EXISTANT AND HAS BEEN DEBUNKED SEVERAL TIMES.
I usually find your thoughts insightful, however, this is the kind of politspeak from the right wing fringe. You're better than resorting to those tactics.
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Exactly. Hell, make the ID good for 4 years. Make the damn thing free for people making less than $50,000. Geesh ...... I don't think that it is too much to ask that people prove that they are eligible to vote, and that they vote only once. We waste a lot more money on other less important stuff.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You mean poor people who depend on government benefits for such luxuries as food and shelter would go to extraordinary lengths to ensure they don't starve to death? What a shocking revelation.
Yes, and I am expecting them to do just a small fraction of that to help maintain the integrity of one of the greatest rights we have, which is to vote.
You have to have an ID to pay your taxes, usually its a SS#... I bet if they did away with that requirement and did not force you to prove that you are who you say you are when you pay your taxes and just trusted you to pay the right amount, the left would have a big problem with that.
But no, to make sure we get taxes right, employers, banks, investments, 401Ks, charities, etc all have to submit documentation to the government who then compares it to all of the documentation that you have to submit, with all of your personal information on it, to back up your claims of what you owe... this usually involves several hours of a persons time or a hundred bucks to pay somebody else to do it... then they take a percentage of those people and do audits to make sure everybody is who they say they are and calculated their taxes accurately based on the 1040 and the 3 or 4 schedules and the percentages of things that you get and don't get and how they are calculated and make sure they are on the right lines, then they heap fines on you if you made a mistake... And do the poor people complain about having to find a computer or get to a library to get their tax documents and fill them in and mail them so they can get their refund? Not so much.
To vote, you have to show up and they trust you from there.
Collecting tax revenue is far more important than maintaining the integrity of voting.
yebat' Putin
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What truly amazes me is this:
People complain about how difficult it would be for a poor person without any ID to go get one. Well, like I said earlier ..... if they have no ID, then they aren't legally working anywhere. They aren't going to school, because you need a photo ID to sign up for college or financial aid.
In other words ..... such a person would do nothing at all, every day of the year.
Is it really putting them out so much to expect that to take an hour out of their schedule of doing nothing, once every 4 years, to go get a valid ID so they can vote? Is that really placing a tremendous burden on such a person? Really?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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and with a little planning, you could couple with another activity... say... voting. You show up to vote, and in an adjacent room is a set up where you can renew your ID for another 2 years or 4 years or whatever it is.
I'm just asking this because I don't know because I've been blessed to have never had to use it, but can you sign up for welfare, food stamps, unemployment, etc without an ID?
yebat' Putin
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Ignorance? Because he does not agree with you. Oh...ok.
No, because he chooses to believe rhetoric and/or talking points and does not know the facts; not knowing the facts is the very definition of ignorance. I provided one factual example of voter ID laws being used illegally to suppress voting by the poor and minorities in order to remedy the ignorance.
What makes my example factual? The judge's ruling on the case does. If you did not know this was happening, that makes you ignorant. If you examine the facts, and you still believe it is not happening, then you are no longer ignorant, you then become not only wrong, but guilty of confirmation bias, among other things.
I never said it was happening in every state with or trying to pass voter ID laws. I simply said it was happening, because the prevailing belief around here seems to be that it is not - hence my use of the word ignorance. My example is not an "extreme" case, as jfanent claims in an attempt to discredit my argument. Rather, it is an entire state, one with one of the highest populations in the country, not some podunk town nobody has ever heard of, which would have made jfanent's claim a valid one - good try though. Anyway, its an example of a state led by one party trying to pass a law that it knows is not legal in order to try to mask discrimination in the voting process for political gain.
What evidence do I have to support make my last statement? The fact they chose to appeal instead of modifying the law to add that one requirement that would make it legal, when the quickest route to getting a legal voter ID law is to simply make that one change. They chose not to do that, which suggests an ulterior motive - vote suppression by Texas republicans of demographics likely to vote for democrats. An argument which was also supported by Assistant Attorney General Thomas E. Perez of the Department of Justice, not just some random dude on a political TV show, in the body of the posted article.
Its even in the article I referenced to support my point that several other states passed laws and they were deemed perfectly legal by the exact same court who ruled this one was not legal. I would not use this source if I had an agenda to try to prove all voter ID laws are bad; I'm sure I could have found a liberal article for that.
I only focus on the fact that vote suppression is an actual, legitimate problem because I believe it is not only illegal but unethical to attempt to deny anyone's, especially on the scale of an entire state's population of poor and minorities, their constitutionally given right to suffrage.
Willie, do you see how this works? I see an argument I know is wrong, I provide information why it is wrong. There's no personal aspect to it at all except for you trying to derail the discussion by creating one. I dug the information up partly out of pure frustration due to the ignorance and bias shown in the thread and partly because I dodged a lot of bullets to protect every citizen's right to vote, and I get highly offended when people try to crap on any constitutionally protected rights. I also get offended when citizen's willfully ignore evidence of constitutional protections being trampled because it helps their party - to me that is just as bad.
I'm going to ignore your second sentence Willie because I'm trying to have an adult discussion with people I disagree with and you're purposefully trying to derail it instead of participating with substance. If you want to join in without childish behavior you are more than welcome to, but I'm done with the nonsense.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Legend
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I know that you need an ID to sign up for unemployment ..... because I almost signed up for that once. As far as welfare ..... I just googled it, and came up with this: Tips on Applying for Welfare Benefits http://www.nlsa.us/resources/benefits/pb3_application_tips.html...... Quote:
You will need to provide proof of your household's circumstances. These are the kinds of things you should bring:
Proof of your identity such as driver's license, library card, voter's registration
Social Security cards for all persons applying
Proof of residence for all persons applying (homeless persons need only a mailing address)
(You must live in the county where the application is made.)
Names and proof of age of all persons applying
There is more at the site.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Exactly. Hell, make the ID good for 4 years. Make the damn thing free for people making less than $50,000. Geesh ...... I don't think that it is too much to ask that people prove that they are eligible to vote, and that they vote only once. We waste a lot more money on other less important stuff.
They are doing that in some states. Those states, I do not believe, are passing voter ID laws with the motive of vote suppression.
Texas was told by a court to do this and their law would be passed. Texas, I believe because their intent was vote suppression, instead made the list of accepted ID's shorter, and specifically chose the ones that the poor and minorities are least likely to have. A panel of federal judges looked at this evidence, and agreed with me. Then, to further support the theory of vote suppression, they vowed to appeal the ruling instead of making an easy concession.
What about that is proving so difficult to understand?
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Legend
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I don't know what Texas' budgetary situation is. I know that they have no state income tax, so maybe that plays into it as much as anything else.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Where is this insistence these people in question are all on welfare stemming from? Have none of you ever traveled outside of an urban area? There are people all over who this effects. Farmers, ranchers, people who live in the marshes in the south, the mountains. Go ID a guy herding cattle, see what he says to you.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I'm going to ignore your second sentence Willie because I'm trying to have an adult discussion with people I disagree with and you're purposefully trying to derail it instead of participating with substance. If you want to join in without childish behavior you are more than welcome to, but I'm done with the nonsense.
OK...so NOW you want to play grown up.
In my opinion, it is ridiculous to not require some form of ID to vote. That is not discriminatory or suppressing the vote.
The right to vote exists due to other Americans making sacrifices for the freedom of its citizens. If one American can give their life so others can vote, I don't think it's at all suppressive to ask the voter to show some form of ID.
If we did not require an ID for things in everyday life, I would agree that requiring an ID to vote would be suppressive. However, as has been detailed many times in this very thread...proving one's identity is a big part of everyday life...and is necessary for an enormous majority of Americans.
The right to vote is precious and should be treated that way...along with the integrity of the vote...both of those statements are best served by requiring proper ID to vote. If it's important enough to vote, get an ID.
If you want to buy beer, you need an ID. If you want to buy cigs, you need an ID. If you want to cash a check or open a bank account, you need an ID. If you get pulled over by the police, you need an ID.
Voter suppression? Ridiculous.
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Legend
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Daman, see my post right below yours that shows who the adults are that have no ID. You'll notice its the demographics that usually favor Democrats. If we lived in an ideal world where every eligible voter had ID, I'd be all for showing IDs to vote. However, we are from that and as it stands, voter ID laws disenfranchise minorities, the elderly,
And the poor. And as I have pointed out numerous times, voter fraud is largely non-existent.
I recognize your point and I take it seriously, but what is stopping the poor from getting an ID, what is stopping a black or hispanic or an 18 to 20 something from getting an ID? My point is, there isn't ANYTHING stopping them from getting that voter ID if they want to and are truly eligible.
Do you see what I'm saying.
If Democrats are the ones that would be most harmed by this law, then the thing to do is get more people to get their ID's legally. Start a campaign similar to getting voters to register to vote but instead, make it a campaign to get them to get their voter ID's. Set up assistence centers to guide them through the process.
As of this moment, they have campaign offices all over the place, assign someone or a group of people to that task. Help them do it legally. Certainly nobody would have a complaint about that would they?
I have to tell you this as well, If republicans want this law installed for any other reason (and we know they do) than to have fair elections, they should be lined up and flogged. they should want all eligible voters to be allowed to vote, to stop them by using means such as this for the express purpose of limiting their ability to vote makes the comments Romney made on the hidden tape seem right on target for what the republicans want. And man, that makes them look bad.. really bad.
regardless of party affiliation, ALL OF our politicians should absolutely want everyone eligible to vote to be able to do so. There shouldn't even be a question about it.
Then you let the chips fall where they may.
Here's the deal, if the Republicans are worried about the black or poor or hispanic vote, then they need to address that with those groups, not by changing the laws so they might be excluded from the process.
I'd have to believe that that is action contrary to the intentions of our founding fathers.
Both sides of this are handling it in a fashion that helps themselves, but doesn't do justice to the election process.
Democrats fighting against voter ID's and Republicans fighting for them.. When in reality, they should both be working together to get everyone INCLUDED in the process. This should have Bipartisan written all over it.
Any thinking other than that just CAN'T be what the framers had in mind.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Go ID a guy herding cattle, see what he says to you.
He only needs an ID if he wishes to vote...otherwise, he is free to stay anonymous.
You want to drive a car, you need insurance.
You want to vote, you need an ID.
If voting is important to you, make sure you have an ID.
It's simple and not some attempt to suppress anyone's vote.
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I usually just use the phone book.
Either that or I plug it into the Yellow Pages site. It's not that difficult.
http://www.yellowpages.com/struthers-oh/...+license+bureau
The challenge in PA may be an access issue. In stumbling around the website a number of offices have limited hours and the offices may not be everywhere.
I am neutral on this issue, if you want a photo ID that is fine, but getting one should be simple.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Legend
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Go ID a guy herding cattle, see what he says to you.
He only needs an ID if he wishes to vote...otherwise, he is free to stay anonymous.
You want to drive a car, you need insurance.
You want to vote, you need an ID.
If voting is important to you, make sure you have an ID.
It's simple and not some attempt to suppress anyone's vote.
I agree it's simple, but by putting this out there today in time for this election, they are, without a doubt, attempting to suppress some folks vote.
Now, if you wanna put this into effect, I'm good with it 100%, but then you have to provide the guidence for those having an issue with understanding it.
Not everyone is as smart or clean as you and me Willie. My world is pretty uncomplicated. I have plenty of ID.. I'm assuming you do as well.
But there are people out there that may wish to vote and aren't sophisticated enough to understand the process of getting the proper ID. (Of course, there is the thought that if you can't figure out how to get an ID, then maybe you shouldn't vote, but legitimatly, we can't think that way)
So, each party has campaign offices all over the damn place, they both are cash rich, how about arranging for at least one person in each office (two or three in large metro areas) to be dedicated not so much to a particular candidate but assisting folks that want an ID but need a little guidence getting one?
What's wrong with that?
I mean, the only person that wouldn't want that is a person attempting to suppress some voters from exercising their right to vote. That's my opinion
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I highlighted specific sentences and quotations from the article and touched on the differences between a legal voter ID law and an illegal voter ID law, and why they are different. It was spelled out by a federal judge in very clear and concise language. It is black and white. If you say it isn't, you are wrong.
If every state in the country wants to pass voter ID laws, the blueprint for how to do it legally has been drawn. All they have to do is follow it. I think its a good idea as long as it isn't done in a discriminatory way. The judge spelled out how to achieve this.
The last time I voted, all that was required of me was to provide proof I lived in the district. I did this with a utility bill that had my address on it. Do I think that's acceptable? No, I actually was surprised I didn't need my ID.
That does not mean it is ok to specifically write a law targeting a specific group of people with the intent of denying them suffrage. A panel of federal judges agrees with that statement.
If Texas makes the suggested changes spelled out in the ruling, this conversation never happens. Instead they throw a tantrum and vow to appeal, revealing their true intentions.
Again, I'm not rallying against requiring an ID to vote. I support all states who do it legally. I do not support states who illegally deny suffrage. Can't possibly be more clear.
And yes Willie, I have allowed you (and a few others) to rile me up in the past. I apologize for that and I won't let it happen anymore. If you want to keep poking me feel free, but I'm not participating.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Go ID a guy herding cattle, see what he says to you.
He only needs an ID if he wishes to vote...otherwise, he is free to stay anonymous.
You want to drive a car, you need insurance.
You want to vote, you need an ID.
If voting is important to you, make sure you have an ID.
It's simple and not some attempt to suppress anyone's vote.
That's factually incorrect. Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Kentucky, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and Washington do not require photo ID to vote as of August 2012. If he lives in one of those states, he is free to both vote and do so without a photo ID. Texas is notably included in that list, because their attempt at the law was not legal and was ruled on by a federal court accordingly.
My comment was also taken out of context. I was clearly referring to the insinuation that everyone who is being negatively affected by these illegal voter ID laws "probably" had one to collect their welfare check anyway. I was giving examples of people who had no real use for ID because of their chosen way of life, who may now not be able to exercise a constitutionally protected right if these laws are able to be rammed through right before an election without time for review by the courts.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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...assisting folks that want an ID but need a little guidence getting one?
What's wrong with that?
Nothing, that was actually spelled out (in so many words) by a federal court as the proper, legal way to carry out voter ID laws.
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I mean, the only person that wouldn't want that is a person attempting to suppress some voters from exercising their right to vote. That's my opinion
That's my entire point, and was the point of the federal court. Summed up nicely and simple to understand. Thank you.
At this point, anyone arguing against this is either ignorant to what's really happening and should read this thread, or is allowing their bias to override logic. Unless Texas wins the appeal, its not up for debate unless you're talking about why they might win the appeal.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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I usually just use the phone book.
Either that or I plug it into the Yellow Pages site. It's not that difficult.
http://www.yellowpages.com/struthers-oh/...+license+bureau
The challenge in PA may be an access issue. In stumbling around the website a number of offices have limited hours and the offices may not be everywhere.
I am neutral on this issue, if you want a photo ID that is fine, but getting one should be simple.
You ever try getting a six pack of beer to go in PA? Last time I was there, it was NOT an easy task.
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At this point, anyone arguing against this is either ignorant to what's really happening and should read this thread, or is allowing their bias to override logic. Unless Texas wins the appeal, its not up for debate unless you're talking about why they might win the appeal.
You've done a nice job explaining your stance on the voter ID law and how/when it is being applied and that it is/has-been done inappropriately at time(s).
However, your continued use of the word "ignorant" is childish...yet you claim to rise above such things.
The one thing you cannot prove...and that I will not agree-with...is that these laws are being passed now only with the goal of voter suppression. I think that is ridiculous.
You cannot prove that...and I think that is the problem. You can question the timing...but no one would pay attention outside of being in the midst of election season. I agree with your point that it is important that such laws be passed/implemented properly and - if not - should be suspended until done properly and within the law.
Unfortunately, you've clouded your own arguments by continually insulting others and by claiming something that cannot be proven. It has effectively outshined your point that voter ID laws exist for a reason and have specific points of law to be followed...and it appears that Texas is trying to circumvent those laws at the moment.
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Posts: 1,317 |
Ignorant isn't an insult, its a word that means (taken straight from the dictionary) "Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular."
Claiming there were no cases of vote suppression relating to voter ID laws, while not knowing (this was my assumption, maybe he did know) there was a federal court ruling that deemed a specific voter ID law was illegal specifically because it was suppressing a group of people's right to vote, fits with that definition, doesn't it?
That was the context I was using it in, which aligns exactly with what the definition of the word is. I'm sorry if it was offensive, but it shouldn't have been.
I was actually giving him the benefit of the doubt that his opinion stemmed from ignorance and not from bias and/or hatred towards the group in question that was being suppressed. In this instance, my assuming his ignorance was the polite thing to do.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,416 Likes: 447 |
I have a question. Since acorn, and numerous other "programs" are so adept at getting people registered to vote, how do they do it?
I know when I finally - finally - got my wife registered to vote, she had to show i.d.
When I go to vote, even though the people sitting at the polling place know me by name - they still require me to show my i.d.
How does acorn register illegal voters?
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
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I have a question. Since acorn, and numerous other "programs" are so adept at getting people registered to vote, how do they do it?
I know when I finally - finally - got my wife registered to vote, she had to show i.d.
When I go to vote, even though the people sitting at the polling place know me by name - they still require me to show my i.d.
How does acorn register illegal voters?
Well, there are several problems with your statement. For starters, ACORN doesn't register illegal voters. ACORN can't because they don't exist, and haven't since November of 2010.
As far as how "other programs" register illegal voters, I assume because I do not know nor have facts to back it up, that they are doing it the exact same way they register legal voters, through the mail. Which is how I registered, and I am a legal voter. I printed this form from the official website of Ohio's Secretary of State, filled it out, signed it, and mailed it to my county board of elections office, which is listed on the same website.
Which brings me to the next problem with your statement. As I previously pointed out in this thread, Ohio does not require photo ID to vote. I think it should require it to vote, but it doesn't matter what I think because the law is clear. If you or your wife were required to show photo ID to vote, that polling place violated state law. They probably just asked you for one because they assumed everyone had one, and if you were to tell them you didn't have a photo ID and you produced a utility bill instead, they legally have to accept that and count your vote, and I'm sure they probably would have, as its the law. However, if they were ignorant to the law and refused to let you vote without photo ID, they violated your rights and you would have legal recourse.
For reference, here is the part of the law that is relevant to the discussion, taken straight from the Ohio Secretary of State website:
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Ohio law requires that every voter, upon appearing at the polling place to vote on Election Day, to announce his or her full name and current address and provide proof of the voter's identity.
The forms of identification that may be used by a voter who appears at a polling place to vote on an Election Day include:
A current and valid photo identification card issued by the State of Ohio or the United States government; or
A military identification ("military ID"); or
An original or copy of a current utility bill; or
An original or copy of a current bank statement; or
An original or copy of a current government check; or
An original or copy of a current paycheck; or
An original or copy of a current other government document, other than a voter registration acknowledgement notification mailed by the board of elections, that shows the voter’s name and current address.
A voter presenting an Ohio driver’s license that shows the voter’s former address is permitted to cast a regular ballot so long as the voter’s current residential address is printed in the official poll list of registered voters for that precinct. Voters who do not provide one of these documents at the precinct will still be able to vote using a provisional ballot. Voters who do not have any of the above forms of identification, including a Social Security number, will still be able to vote by signing an affirmation statement swearing to the voter’s identity under penalty of election falsification and by casting a provisional ballot.
For Voter I.D. purposes "current" means the document was issued on a date within one year immediately preceding the date of the election at which the voter seeks to vote, or has on it an expiration date which has not passed as of the date of the election in which the voter seeks to vote.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
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Where is this insistence these people in question are all on welfare stemming from?
It is based largely on the people who seem to be whining the most about it.... and those that the democrats seem to be trying to get all riled up over it. I don't see them running ads aimed at Wyoming cattle ranchers...
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There are people all over who this effects. Farmers, ranchers, people who live in the marshes in the south, the mountains. Go ID a guy herding cattle, see what he says to you.
My guess is that 99% of them would say, "It's at home, I don't bring it out here with me." But I bet almost all of them have one.
So my question to you is, where did this notion that everything has to be 100% convenient for 100% of the people to be possible come from? If you want to live in a marsh in Louisiana or high on a mountain in Montana, then that is your choice... some things aren't going to be convenient for you. Getting to the grocery store, mailing a letter, getting gas for your boats and farm equipment, buying clothes, getting medical attention, voting.... and getting and renewing a proper form of identification. In this country you have the right to live largely wherever you want, if you choose a place that makes things inconvenient for you, then that is your choice, our laws should not be dictated by whether or not something is inconvenient for you just because you choose to live in some obscure place in the middle of nowhere.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,416 Likes: 447 |
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,163 Likes: 134 |
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I usually just use the phone book.
Either that or I plug it into the Yellow Pages site. It's not that difficult.
http://www.yellowpages.com/struthers-oh/...+license+bureau
The challenge in PA may be an access issue. In stumbling around the website a number of offices have limited hours and the offices may not be everywhere.
I am neutral on this issue, if you want a photo ID that is fine, but getting one should be simple.
You ever try getting a six pack of beer to go in PA? Last time I was there, it was NOT an easy task.
It's funny you should say that, I was at Bubnashs beer distributorship in Perryopolis, PA about a month ago. Walked in, bought a case of Iron City for my brother.. easy as pie.,. LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
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Interesting.
Yes, facts often are. 
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
You bought a case, he wanted a 6-pack... I was visiting a friend in Waynesboro PA not long ago and my wife, who is not a big drinker, wanted a 6-pack of those Seagrams things so we ran out to the beer store.. they didn't have 6, they said it was a law that you buy the whole case so it was 24 or none.. she was probably going to drink 2.
I have no idea if this is a state thing or a local thing or what the intent is... but that was what they told me.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,339 Likes: 254 |
In the 2000 election when the Democrats fought to not allow overseas military votes that came in late was that voter suppression? With Ohio ID law does that keep people away from voting?
#gmstrong
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Convenience has nothing to do with it, its specifically researching and then writing a law based on that research that intentionally makes voting difficult and sometimes impossibly so for certain segments of the population. Texas had an acceptable and quite easy way to make their law legal, and they chose not to take it and appeal instead. I do not know for certain if it was because they intended to suppress certain votes with those certain specific provisions in the law they wrote, but a lot of evidence points to that being the case. Evidence that has already been pointed out and sources given.
You want an example of someone who is not a cattle rancher who this discriminates against? How about someone who is poor because they are disabled? They can't drive, don't need a driver's license. They have a SS card, and a birth certificate, but no photo ID. Now, they could go get one, but they are disabled, so that may either be substantially difficult or impossible for them to do. Maybe a lot of disabled people have someone in their lives who is willing to go out of their way to help them do this, but maybe some of them don't. In Ohio, no problem. They can use other forms of ID that are acceptable and vote absentee. If the Texas law came to be, this person is denied a constitutionally protected right. Even if this is only denying several hundred out of several hundred million people in the U.S., this is still not ok!
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,163 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
You bought a case, he wanted a 6-pack... I was visiting a friend in Waynesboro PA not long ago and my wife, who is not a big drinker, wanted a 6-pack of those Seagrams things so we ran out to the beer store.. they didn't have 6, they said it was a law that you buy the whole case so it was 24 or none.. she was probably going to drink 2.
I have no idea if this is a state thing or a local thing or what the intent is... but that was what they told me.
Not sure what Seagrams things your talking about, sounds like a packaging issue. I could have easily bought a 6 pack, but hey, he's my brother, why not get him a case?
Were you in Waynesboro or Waynesburg PA?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
Quote:
In the 2000 election when the Democrats fought to not allow overseas military votes that came in late was that voter suppression?
Yes. Lets try keep this topic free from political bias, its too important of an issue to let it be convoluted with that nonsense. The "they did it too" card has no legitimate place in this discussion, and I'm saddened it was even brought up at all.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,857 Likes: 955 |
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The only people that don't have an ID are those that most likely couldn't legally vote in the first place.
These are the actual percentages of adults with no ID. Are you claiming that "they all couldn't legally vote in the first place"?
I'd have to question those "Mother Jones" stats. An ID is required to receive government benefits, rent an apartment, open a bank account, get a job, etc. The only way you can survive without an ID these days is if you're homeless or doing something illegal. If they have a job they required an ID to get it, if they are paying bills they need a bank account, if they're not paying bills they're on government assistance, if they're renting they required an ID.
The only folks I can think of that would not have an ID are:
- homeless people not receiving government assistance
- those illegally working under the table paying cash for all of their needs and not receiving government assistance
- young, unemployed, non-driving adults still living with their parents not receiving government assistance.
- elderly people not receiving social security or government assistance paying all bills with cash stashed at home.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,317 |
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The only folks I can think of that would not have an ID are:
- homeless people not receiving government assistance
- those illegally working under the table paying cash for all of their needs and not receiving government assistance
- young, unemployed, non-driving adults still living with their parents not receiving government assistance.
- elderly people not receiving social security or government assistance paying all bills with cash stashed at home.
Democrats 
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 Likes: 147 |
Quote:
Ohio law requires that every voter, upon appearing at the polling place to vote on Election Day, to announce his or her full name and current address and provide proof of the voter's identity.
The forms of identification that may be used by a voter who appears at a polling place to vote on an Election Day include:
A current and valid photo identification card issued by the State of Ohio or the United States government; or
A military identification ("military ID"); or
An original or copy of a current utility bill; or
An original or copy of a current bank statement; or
An original or copy of a current government check; or
An original or copy of a current paycheck; or
An original or copy of a current other government document, other than a voter registration acknowledgement notification mailed by the board of elections, that shows the voter’s name and current address.
A voter presenting an Ohio driver’s license that shows the voter’s former address is permitted to cast a regular ballot so long as the voter’s current residential address is printed in the official poll list of registered voters for that precinct. Voters who do not provide one of these documents at the precinct will still be able to vote using a provisional ballot. Voters who do not have any of the above forms of identification, including a Social Security number, will still be able to vote by signing an affirmation statement swearing to the voter’s identity under penalty of election falsification and by casting a provisional ballot.
For Voter I.D. purposes "current" means the document was issued on a date within one year immediately preceding the date of the election at which the voter seeks to vote, or has on it an expiration date which has not passed as of the date of the election in which the voter seeks to vote.
Interesting.....but at the same time able to be abused. I could come to Ohio, borrow/steal Arch's electric bill and go vote as Arch?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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