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I'm pretty sure the hubbub this time around revolves around the pension. The league wants to reduce or eliminate the pension plan for officials... somebody could probably find the details... These guys have full time jobs, how much pension should you get for a job you work 17 days a year?
Actually, I think if you check, they all work more than 17 weeks, those that work the playoffs work longer.
There are prep days prior to every game, there is training that goes for several weeks (over time of course)
So, 17 days isn't correct,. it's more like 30 to 40 days a years. But even with that, what kinda pension is required? I wouldn't think much is deserved.
I read about a pro ref that lives in the Cleveland area. It was along time ago and alot is fuzzy but he said they fly into whatever city they are working in on Friday night prep for the game Sat then fly back home Sunday night.
Thats 3 days right there 21 weeks which is 63 days if they work every week with no playoffs. There were other things as well too that they had to do in the offseason. Im fuzzy on this but I also thought he said they had to pay for all their own flights to from where ever they were working.
I think the Hotel cost was covered and set up by the league. And I think he said they got meal money.
I think at the time he said they were making about 110K per year and after reading it thought ok that sounds about right.
If your the best you should be paid like the best was another thing I took away from the story.
Yeah, I think that's the article that I read also I just didn't remember it as well as you did.
#GMSTRONG
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I think its a highly stressful job, that clearly takes more skill than we were previously giving them credit for. What do jobs with similar stress levels and skill requirements command for salary? I think we start there, and give them a nice bump because they have to stand there and smell Ray Lewis's breath as he gets in their face all the time. That's worth something, isn't it?
They were offered a pretty nice salary bump and they turned it down because they want to make a nice fat pension for the rest of their lives after they retire from football.
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j/c Well, for someone to say that the NFL actually cares about player safety and the integrity of the game? Obviously they don't, unless of course they can balme the players. This goes a long way to prove they don't hold themselves accountable to nearly the same standards as they wish to blame everyone else for. ie.... The lack of calling tripping. The aggressiveness that they allow the CB's with non calls. Players are going to end up getting hurt a lot more becasuse other players know they will, in most cases get away with dirty and questionable tactics. Yeah, the NFL really cares about player safety and the integrity of the game all-right.......  Players are held to a standard the NFL doesn't even attempt to meet.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So should the NFL cancel games until they get this worked out with the refs or should they just cave and give the refs whatever they want?
yebat' Putin
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Players are going to end up getting hurt a lot more becasuse other players know they will, in most cases get away with dirty and questionable tactics.
So players are going to get hurt because other players will play dirty if they know they can get away with it... and you blame the league for not caring about player safety? Sounds like the players who don't really give a crap about other players safety.
yebat' Putin
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They were offered a pretty nice salary bump and they turned it down because they want to make a nice fat pension for the rest of their lives after they retire from football.
Yeah, being on the field with players all suited up and the odds of getting hurt seem to justify that people deserve a pension in this case.
The NFL knew the money wasn't the issue. So they offer them the money and use it as some publicity stunt to "show how hard they tried".
They could easily settle this by offering to give the curreent refs their retirement and begin training for new refs. ( as has been rumored they may do ). Put a clause in the new contract that refs being hired from that point on would recieve a 401k rather than a pension.
At what point do you hold the NFL accountable for doing the right thing since they are making so much money? The outcomes of the games, who makes the playoffs and who doesn't could easlily be in the balance due to this. Player injuries happening due to this will increase.
This isn't some minor issue.
I know..... Business is to make money and let's forget about the actual employees, the integrity of the game or even more players being injured. Because that is SO trivial that compared to "continuing" the refs pension plan means nothing.....
What people need to remember, is this isn't something new the refs are asking for. Just a continuation of what they already have. And with that in place, the NFL has flourished in profits.
But for some, you can never make enough profits so let's squeeze even a little more profit by screwing our employees.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So should the NFL cancel games until they get this worked out with the refs or should they just cave and give the refs whatever they want?
Since the NFL already gives them a pension, the real question is this.......
Should the NFL who is already making money hand over fist, continue to give their empoyees benifits already in place, or should they try to increase their profits even more by cutting benifits their employees alrady have?
The refs arten't asking for "more". They just don't want their current benifits cut. And from a financial standpoint, the NFL has no basis to claim some hardship that is forcing their hand to take this action from some kind of financial hardship.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So players are going to get hurt because other players will play dirty if they know they can get away with it... and you blame the league for not caring about player safety? Sounds like the players who don't really give a crap about other players safety.
In every business you have good and bad. You have people who play by the rules and people who don't. Of course this is a common fact I'm sure you are already well aware of.
We see it in all walks of life and professions. To make a blanket statement that includes everyone is proposterous. Even I didn't clarify that and I should have.
But you know as well as I do, that some players play dirty. Not all, but some. And it doesn't take a large percentage of them in order to create a lot of serious injuries.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So should the NFL cancel games until they get this worked out with the refs or should they just cave and give the refs whatever they want?
Since the NFL already gives them a pension, the real question is this.......
Should the NFL who is already making money hand over fist, continue to give their empoyees benifits already in place, or should they try to increase their profits even more by cutting benifits their employees alrady have?
The refs arten't asking for "more". They just don't want their current benifits cut. And from a financial standpoint, the NFL has no basis to claim some hardship that is forcing their hand to take this action from some kind of financial hardship.
I think you are correct it a def money issue. Should the league continue to place 20% into a pension plan and give them a small raise or give them the 20% plus the small raise and let them contribute what they want to the 401K?
The raise looks big but they have to take that into account. I guess I would say they cant have both so we see the stalemate they are in.
Im not sure how many refs are on the field total but across all the games played every week we are not talking about chump change here either.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Honestly - you're coming at this from the wrong angle. Your angle is "the nfl makes money hand over fist, so they should offer a fantastic salary AND pension to the ref's". Ya know, since the ref's are so underpaid for their 16 to 17 weeks of work per year. Ya know, since they get a pension for working 16 or 17 weekends per year. (and I'm sure they have to put in a week or 2 weeks of training each year also - so make that 19 weekends, plus 2 weeks."
There's a boatload of people in this country that work 52 weeks a year, and get no retirement. They also work for companies that make a profit.
Try coming at it from this angle: Would you work 17 weekends, and 2 weeks (a guess), and in return get paid $140,000 per year, plus meal money and air fare, and possibly hotel stipend? Then, add in you already get a decent pension.
Would you do that? I would.
But, today's society doesn't look at it like that. They look at it like you do: Hey, they make a lot of money, and I want more of it.
Here's what I'd do if I were the nfl: You're getting paid fantastic money. You're getting a pension. We'll give you a raise in your salary. If you don't like it, move on. We are not in YOUR service, you are in ours. If you don't like our numbers, feel free to go back to your day job, which, by the way, most of you have anyway. Demand THEM to give you a pay raise, travel expenses, and a great pension."
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Yeah, being on the field with players all suited up and the odds of getting hurt seem to justify that people deserve a pension in this case.
A lot of people work in jobs where they could get hurt.. and they don't make 6 figures and get a pension for 30-40 days worth of work a year... (actually only about 16-20 of those days where they are in real jeopardy of getting hurt. And I'm curious, what is the injury rate among officials?
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The NFL knew the money wasn't the issue. So they offer them the money and use it as some publicity stunt to "show how hard they tried".
So saying "Here's an extra $20-30K a year, you can use to fund your own retirement" isn't good enough?
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At what point do you hold the NFL accountable for doing the right thing since they are making so much money? The outcomes of the games, who makes the playoffs and who doesn't could easlily be in the balance due to this.
You sure are hung up on how much money they are making.. It sure seems to me that you think the NFL should just cave because... you know... they make so much money.
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Player injuries happening due to this will increase.
That is speculation...
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What people need to remember, is this isn't something new the refs are asking for. Just a continuation of what they already have. And with that in place, the NFL has flourished in profits.
But for some, you can never make enough profits so let's squeeze even a little more profit by screwing our employees.
Wow, that sounds remarkably like what the auto industry used to say when it was making money hand over fist.. because you know, just because you are making a ton of money now... you can create giant future obligations because certainly you will always be making tons of money.... it's guaranteed.
yebat' Putin
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Demand THEM to give you a pay raise, travel expenses, and a great pension."
...and 150 vacation days a year.
Part-time job that pays me $150k plus meals, travel and retirement? The only reason I'd say "no" is because I wouldn't get to watch football on Sundays.
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Demand THEM to give you a pay raise, travel expenses, and a great pension."
...and 150 vacation days a year.
Part-time job that pays me $150k plus meals, travel and retirement? The only reason I'd say "no" is because I wouldn't get to watch football on Sundays.
well, you'd get to watch 1 game per week
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I see no reason they couldn't stick with these replacement refs and see if they improve over time.
Frankly you could probably hire people for much less to do this job as well as the current referees.
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NFL Officials, almost to a man, also all have full time professions on top of being NFL officials. The NFL has looked into having full time officials, but the current officials have fought tooth and nail against such a thing. They don't want to give up their 6 or 7 figure full time jobs to become full time officials with the NFL ...... but they waqnt to be paid and compensated as full time NFL officials.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Something everyone seems to be overlooking in comparing what the refs would make vs you, your cousin, whatever...........is you are just sounding jealous. Why is it in many of these discussions I see people basically saying "well I got shafted, and they are not yet getting shafted, so they should get shafted too." I mean people should be more upset that most of us are stuck with crappy 401k retirementt instead of real retirement. Not that other people are still lucky enough to have it.......so let's help take it away. I know I am upset I don't have retirement options that people hired just a couple years ahead of me do.
then consider...
One, the refs are simply the very best available at what they do. While not perfect, they are one of millions who can do the job at the level required. So for everyone who says "I would take x, blah blah" well, you aren't an NFL ref either are you? None of us is that one in a million with the skills, demeanor, knowledge, and luck to be what they are.
Two, the league makes billions of dollars a year. Part of that is based on the integrity of the game. The basic idea is that on any given sunday, any team can win. However, it has to be within the rules. What currently going on is a travesty and will ruin the year if this continues.
Three, To protect this golden goose........you pay the refs. Or more fairly put you continue to pay them, and continue the pension you had previously promised them. You give them a raise as they haven't had that many recently.......remember these are the very best. Then as pit or someone said, maybe you do a 401k for the new hires, or maybe you just provide a good pension for somone who's the best at a very rare job.
I for one would still support the refs if they wanted even more. In the end, as I can plainly see, they are worth it. If the game is worth billions a year, they are worth hundreds of millions. It has to be right. As disgusted as I've gotten with football sometimes, in general I've always thought.........any given sunday!
the NFL could ruin that with this display of ineptitude.
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What I'm saying is that the league has tried to make the officials into full time officials, and the officials have refused to even consider it.
I don't think that this is a money issue, but rather a money vs full time officials issue.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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What I'm saying is that the league has tried to make the officials into full time officials, and the officials have refused to even consider it.
I don't think that this is a money issue, but rather a money vs full time officials issue.
What are they supposed to do with the rest of their time. You can't golf/fish ect... everyday (if we could be so lucky to have a life of leisure). The point is that most friends of mine just have to be doing something and can't stand to be idle for very long even in retirement.
The making of money is first and foremost, because it's what a man knows.
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And that's fine, but the league wants full time officials, and the officials want to remain part time employees ..... while receiving full time type benefits. That's really what it boils down to. I don't see the NFL giving in on this. They could try to ride out this season with the replacement officials, while developing a new class of full time officials for the future.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And that's fine, but the league wants full time officials, and the officials want to remain part time employees ..... while receiving full time type benefits. That's really what it boils down to. I don't see the NFL giving in on this. They could try to ride out this season with the replacement officials, while developing a new class of full time officials for the future.
What ever happens, I think that the officiating needs to improve and they need to be professionals.
That little tidd bit passed on by McCoy of the Eagles who said a ref told him that he needed to do well, because he was on his fantasy team disturbs me to say the least.
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yeah, that and the official who was pulled from a Saints game because he had a picture of him in Saints gear on his Facebook page. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Honestly - you're coming at this from the wrong angle. Your angle is "the nfl makes money hand over fist, so they should offer a fantastic salary AND pension to the ref's". Ya know, since the ref's are so underpaid for their 16 to 17 weeks of work per year. Ya know, since they get a pension for working 16 or 17 weekends per year. (and I'm sure they have to put in a week or 2 weeks of training each year also - so make that 19 weekends, plus 2 weeks."
It has nothing to do with "giving it to them". They already have it. It's about taking it away from them. It's about taking a benifit from them they already have.
There are companies that are forced to take away pensions due to financial hardships within that company.
That's not the case here,
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Once again DC, it has nothing to do with "giving them anything".
It has everything to do with taking away benifits they already have. And the NFL isn't in dire staights and need to do this.
Sorry but to say the owners deserve to make more and more profits when they make a ton now, and taking away benifits when it is not needed, is a crock.
And no, increased injuries is not speculation. With the fights, non calls and disaray on the field as we have seen, it's a certainty.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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...Just a general comment...
...it does not make sense that a very wealthy NFL is trying take benefits away from the officials.
Rather than share the wealth at a time when the NFL is very profitable and popular, Roger and the boys play hardball with the NFL officials...it just doesn't make sense.
Goodell claims to care about player safety, yet he allows the game to be officiated by unqualified amateur refs, who are putting the health of every player in jeopardy.
Each week the players appear to be pushing the limits, seeing what these amateur refs will allow. As we saw on Monday night, after just two weeks, the refs are close to losing control of the game.
I have never seen the NFL in such disarray, lacking competent leadership at the top...it's all on Goodell.
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Demand THEM to give you a pay raise, travel expenses, and a great pension."
...and 150 vacation days a year.
Part-time job that pays me $150k plus meals, travel and retirement? The only reason I'd say "no" is because I wouldn't get to watch football on Sundays.
well, you'd get to watch 1 game per week
and theyre great seats...
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Ex-ref: Roger Goodell doesn't care
September 18, 2012
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- As players and coaches around the NFL continue to express frustration with replacement referees, one former official blasted the league on Tuesday, saying commissioner Roger Goodell is devaluing officiating in the NFL and that the performance of replacement referees will deteriorate over time.
"It's obvious to me that (Goodell) just doesn't even care. Otherwise, how could they replace professionalism with unprofessionalism in a game that's so tough to work, even for the best officials in the land? How could he care about it?," Jerry Markbreit, who refereed 23 NFL seasons before retiring in 1998, said Tuesday on ESPN 98.7 FM's "The Mike Lupica Show."
Some have expressed confidence that replacement referees will improve as the weeks go by. But Markbreit doesn't see it that way.
"The management of the games gets tougher (in the coming weeks)," Markbreit said. "These guys have relied on competent, top-notch, terrific officials all these years. And now they have a bunch of amateurs out there and it's going to fall apart.
"It's not going to get better, as the commissioner said ... It's going to get worse."
Coaches and players have echoed Markbreit's sentiment in recent days, as replacement officials made several questionable calls in Week 2.
"When you look around at some of the calls being missed, player safety is the big issue," New York Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka said on Tuesday.
The NFL locked out the regular officials in June after their contract expired. Negotiations with the NFL Referees Association broke down several times during the summer, including just before the season, and the league is using replacements for the first time since 2001.
The results have been mixed. The refs made several high-profile gaffes on Sunday and Monday and one ref's credentials were called into question.
Just hours before kickoff Sunday, the NFL removed side judge Brian Stropolo from the New Orleans-Carolina game because it was discovered he's a Saints fan.
Stropolo will not be allowed to return as an official until the league completes a review of the circumstances that dictated the action. He had displayed his unabashed passion as a longtime Saints fan on his Facebook page, which has since been disabled. He also posted Sunday's game assignment, a specific violation of league policy for its officials.
"We are reviewing Mr. Stropolo's status and pending completion of that review, he will not be serving as an on-field game official," said Greg Aiello, the league's senior vice president of communications.
Then came the on-field problems.
In Philadelphia's 24-23 win over Baltimore, two game-altering calls left quarterback Joe Flacco and linebacker Ray Lewis fuming, though it appeared on replay that both calls were accurate. That didn't make them any less controversial.
Flacco's scoring pass to receiver Jacoby Jones in the fourth quarter was called back because of offensive pass interference. The official who made the call didn't throw the yellow flag, though he immediately signaled a penalty.
"I might sound like a little bit of a baby here," Flacco said, "but for them to make that call, I think, was a little crazy."
There was confusion later during Philadelphia's go-ahead drive. First, the two-minute warning occurred twice. Then, quarterback Michael Vick's forward pass was called a fumble inside the Ravens' 5-yard line. It was ruled incomplete after a replay, and Vick scored on the next play after a few anxious moments.
"It's extra stress when you have to sit there and wait," Vick said. "The one thing you don't want to do, you don't want to put the game in the officials' hands."
Eagles running back LeSean McCoy said in an interview with SportsRadio 94 WIP in Philadelphia that a ref told him that he needed him for his fantasy football team.
"I'll be honest, they're like fans," McCoy said of the replacement referees. "One of the refs was talking about his fantasy team like, 'McCoy, come on, I need you for my fantasy.' Ahhh, what?"
It's unknown if McCoy was serious. ESPN has reached out to the running back for clarification on whether the exchange actually happened.
Aiello told ProFootballTalk.com in an email that NFL officials are not permitted to play fantasy football. ESPN also has reached out to the NFL for comment on McCoy's remarks.
New York Giants safety Kenny Phillips added that officials missed a blatant pass interference call Sunday in the Giants' win over Tampa Bay.
"I saw in our game a guy walk Victor Cruz like a dog. He had his jersey the whole way up the field and they didn't call anything ... It was bad," Phillips said.
Markbreit, who refereed eight conference championship games and four Super Bowls, also bemoaned the slew of missed calls by replacement refs. He and others have said that the use of replacement referees is a sign the league doesn't care about the health of players.
"It's absolutely true," Markbreit said. "They just don't care about the inadequacy and unprofessionalism of these scab referees who are trying to do something that they don't have the ability to do. ... It just makes me sick to my stomach."
Giants defensive lineman Justin Tuck is also concerned about player safety.
"I have seen pass interference -- and I am a defensive player -- at a high rate that hasn't been called. I have seen holding calls at a high rate," Tuck said on Tuesday. "You never know what is going to happen when you get a holding call and guys feel free that they can do that because the referees aren't seeing it. You get guys that (are) getting pulled down and get hamstring (injuries); you get all these different types of things that could happen and player safety becomes an issue.
"That is what I am worried about."
Added Kiwanuka: "I don't think you can levy tens of thousands of dollars, maybe even hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines in a week against players talking about 'player safety this, player safety that,' and not have ... officials who can account for it. Because we're human at the end of the day and if you let people get away with stuff, they're going to continue to do it."
Tuck and Kiwanuka don't lay blame at the replacement referees for the current predicament -- Tuck places the blame on the NFL.
"I am more upset with the NFL for not handling this and taking care of this in due time, I guess. I think the replacement officials are doing their best in a very sticky situation for them," he said.
Added Kiwanuka: "I can't pick a side either way and say, 'One side is right, one side is wrong.' All I know is that we would all benefit from having the regular refs out there."
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, however, downplayed the significance of the replacement refs. He believes players and coaches have always complained about referees calls, and this year is no different.
"You've got to remember that you've got all kinds of complaints at any time about officiating," Jones said Tuesday on KRLD-FM. "Did you happen to notice that the ones that were complaining the most, if it were from within, were the players and coaches on the losing teams? Hello. I don't even have to look at the games or the dates on the newspaper, just hand me one from 30 years ago and it'll be the same thing -- they're complaining about the officiating."
"I'd certainly like to see this thing resolved, but it does appear that we've got a long way to go."
Markbreit has served as the head trainer for NFL referees since his retirement in 1998. When the league asked him to train the replacement officials, he refused to do so and says he has been "fired" by the NFL.
He's been baffled at the league's decision to, in his words, "jeopardize the integrity of these games, the safety of these games and, in the process, belittle the job that the professional refs have done over the years, because of a contract dispute that amounts to a piddling amount of money."
Despite the public outcry, the league backed the replacement crews, a collection of small-college officials who have been studying NFL rules since the summer.
"Officiating is never perfect. The current officials have made great strides and are performing admirably under unprecedented scrutiny and great pressure," Aiello said in an email to The Associated Press. "As we do every season, we will work to improve officiating and are confident that the game officials will show continued improvement."
Reached for comment Tuesday, Aiello told ESPN in an email "that we are looking at how to improve officiating for the long term, and that is an important part of the negotiations with the NFLRA."
Markbreit would like to see a resolution as soon as possible.
"I wish this thing would end. But, apparently the league doesn't care about all of this horrible publicity."
Ian Begley is a regular contributor to ESPNNewYork.com.
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j/c... I heard on ESPN Radio that the NFL refs salaries are such a minor expense for the NFL that they aren't even a line item in the budget. It just falls under "Miscellaneous Expenses"
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Legend
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Demand THEM to give you a pay raise, travel expenses, and a great pension."
...and 150 vacation days a year.
Part-time job that pays me $150k plus meals, travel and retirement? The only reason I'd say "no" is because I wouldn't get to watch football on Sundays.
well, you'd get to watch 1 game per week
and theyre great seats...
and you won't get kicked out for standing
#gmstrong
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What I'm saying is that the league has tried to make the officials into full time officials, and the officials have refused to even consider it.
I don't think that this is a money issue, but rather a money vs full time officials issue.
What are they supposed to do with the rest of their time. You can't golf/fish ect... everyday (if we could be so lucky to have a life of leisure). The point is that most friends of mine just have to be doing something and can't stand to be idle for very long even in retirement.
The making of money is first and foremost, because it's what a man knows.
actually, they would have quite a full slate if the NFL had it's way.
most active referrees get Mon-Wed off each week during the season
Thursday is to review past Sunday's calls
Friday is to review overall league calls (corner cases that came up, etc.)
Saturday is travel and to get instructions for Sunday (point of emphasis, etc.)
Sunday is obviously game-day for most
That is August through January. Continue to February for the "select" crews that make the playoffs.
Once February hits, there are referees added to the competition committee and other committees affected by rules during play. OTAs are required to have NFL referee attend (both to ensure they keep to the CBA agreement on contact and also to help discuss new rules with the teams/players).
April is a busy month teaching the incoming rookie class about the NFL rules as is May with the rookie OTAs.
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Basically, the fulltime referees would have February, June, and July off. The rest of the year is pretty jam-packed (though obviously more stressful during season).
#gmstrong
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Once again DC, it has nothing to do with "giving them anything".
It has everything to do with taking away benifits they already have. And the NFL isn't in dire staights and need to do this.
Sorry but to say the owners deserve to make more and more profits when they make a ton now, and taking away benifits when it is not needed, is a crock.
And no, increased injuries is not speculation. With the fights, non calls and disaray on the field as we have seen, it's a certainty.
The NFL offered them the increase in pay to make up for the pension loss. They can put that money into the 401K and they will be just as well off.
The only problem with 401K's is people dont fund them at the rate they should. With a pension an employer puts about 20% of your pay into it for the employee.
Its forced you never see the money but they pay it. Its considered part of your pay.
If you give the employee the 20% instead as actual pay in their paycheck and they only put 5% into the 401K then the 401K will of course not do as well.
They want both the 20% funding and the 20% in cash that would have been put into the pension.
Someone posted the numbers the NFL offered these guys, I didnt do the exact math but it does look like about a 20/25% increase in pay. Was something like from 150K to 180/190K.
All's I saying is a 401K isnt as bad as people make them out to be. Mostly its because they underfund them once they get the money in their pocket instead of being forced to fund a pension.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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All Pro
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Or if what your 401k is invested in tanks, and you are left with nothing.
Beyond which, I don't care if the NFLRA wants a 100% increase, and their current retirement plan you do it. They are that important to the game of NFL football. Expecially when people are making money hand over fist.
I read an interestin article lately that brought up the idea of gambling......and how tempting an offer to one of these replacement refs might be. I mean one is already a professional poker player. Who among them is the deeply in debt backroom player? Who knows, I'm sure the NFL doesn't.
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Or if what your 401k is invested in tanks, and you are left with nothing.
Beyond which, I don't care if the NFLRA wants a 100% increase, and their current retirement plan you do it. They are that important to the game of NFL football. Expecially when people are making money hand over fist.
I read an interestin article lately that brought up the idea of gambling......and how tempting an offer to one of these replacement refs might be. I mean one is already a professional poker player. Who among them is the deeply in debt backroom player? Who knows, I'm sure the NFL doesn't.
Lol if your not heavly invested in utilitys which are set up to never fail then you are gambling anyway. More to your point no one is so important that they should be able to just demand anything they want and get it.
I dont care how much money the owner is making. I dont watch ESPN anymore and I dont listen to the talking heads on the radio and tbh I see bad calls but the game isnt ruined for me with the replacement refs at all. I see bad calls on both sides so it evens out.
Whos to say the old refs havent fallen onto hard times (150K a year is a pretty good hit) and wont do the same you speculate that the new ref may do?
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Once again Nick, it's about stripping a group from their current benifits when the business in question here has no need to.
If the NFL is offering equal money to compensate them, then why not just go ahead and give them the pensions?
If "all things are equal here" as you suggest.
The stock market can be quite variable as it pertains to return on investment. So don't sit here and claim it's the same as a pension.
The NFL is making tons of money and aren't in a position of need to fight this fight.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The stock market can be quite variable as it pertains to return on investment. So don't sit here and claim it's the same as a pension.
So can business and the economy. But if a business commits to a pension obligation and then business goes south when they need to pay out, they can get themselves into a really bad sport.. reference: the auto industry.
Can you guarantee that the NFL will still be making a ton of money 20 years from now? What if the concussion issue cripples them? What if something else comes up? See what you are advocating is what gets so many industries and our government into such bad shape... making future commitments with money you don't have yet and aren't guaranteed of ever getting.
Granted, I can't imagine the NFL not making a ton of money but what if..... what if 20 years from now the NFL is barely solvent for whatever reason and they've got 300 referees coming to collect on their pensions?
Pit I'm not saying the NFL is right in what it's doing, but you and a lot of other people are looking at it in this window in time where the NFL has a $5 billion TV contract and is making a ton of money .... but none of that is guaranteed to still be happening 20-30 years from now when all of these pensions come due.
yebat' Putin
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Replacement refs need to go Every sports fan knows a diehard who complains about the referees constantly. To them, just a single call against their team is enough to start up the conspiracy theories about how the referees are out to get them. But recently those diehards have been joined by similar complaints from media members, coaches and even players, all because of the NFL replacement referees. With negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement stalling between the NFL and NFLRA — the referee’s union — the NFL decided to lock out the regular referees in June of this year. The main sticking point between the two sides is the referee’s current pension plan, which the NFL would like to take away and replace with one that requires contribution from the referees. With the lockout stretching into regular season games, a need for replacement referees arrived and a group of mostly college referees was hired to call the games. This has turned into an unmitigated disaster for the NFL, as there have been constant complaints from all corners of the football world. Most of the criticism focuses on the officials' basic lack of professionalism, both in dealing with the players and calling the game. For example, last Sunday, replacement referee Brian Stropolo was removed from calling the Saints/Panthers game because of his public declaration of being a Saints fan on his Facebook page. Stropolo had multiple pictures of him wearing Saints gear and going to games at the Superdome. Yet he was still nearly allowed to referee a game with his favorite team involved. Also on Sunday, Eagles running back LeSean McCoy gave more credence to the idea of the replacements being fans. McCoy said that during the game one referee told him he was on his fantasy football team and that he therefore needed McCoy to perform well. One of the worst calls by the replacement officials so far was made near the end of that game. Eagles quarterback Michael Vick’s incomplete pass inside the 10-yard line with just a minute left on the clock was initially, and inexplicably, ruled as a fumble. Luckily, the automatic review of the turnover was able to fix the call on the field, but it is still harrowing to see such a simple call messed up. But the real issue so far has been the complete lack of control that referees have exerted over the games they call. Take Sunday’s Redskins/Rams affair, which was described by fans and media about 2,743 times as “chippy,” with multiple skirmishes between players breaking out during the game. The referees’ inability to gain control of the game ended up biting the Redskins when former Virginia Tech wide receiver Josh Morgan was penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct in the waning seconds of the game after throwing a football at Rams cornerback Cortland Finnegan. This penalty backed up the Redskins enough that they were no longer in field goal range of kicker Billy Cundiff and they went on to lose 31-28. The antics of the replacement referees have tarnished the reputation of the league and ruined the integrity of the games being played this season. However, the NFL refuses to admit what is obvious for all to see. In a statement issued after this Sunday’s games, the NFL wrote, “the current officials have made great strides and are performing admirably under unprecedented scrutiny and great pressure.” The complete denial of anything being wrong by the NFL should be worrisome to fans who will have to continue to deal with long reviews, player fights and blatantly missed calls as the NFL and NFLRA continue to battle. When replacements referee a game, the fans are the ones who lose. http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/20394/replacement-refs-need-to-go
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Granted, I can't imagine the NFL not making a ton of money
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Pit I'm not saying the NFL is right in what it's doing,
What you fail to mention is that each and every time a new cotract is on the table, so are everything that is pertained n the former contract.
We have both seen it and you know it. Many busineses, when and if they get in dire straits as you mentioned, have at that time negotiated away from pensions.
I have even mentioned it myself that with the current state of the NFL, in "this contract", this silliness over a pension plan is not necassary. Yes, there may come a time that it is. And when and if that time comes, those contracts may need to include sawying away from a pension plan. But that is not the case now and this fight doesn't need to be fought now.
This contract is for five years. the exact same time imit that the new TV contract for the NFL exists which will greatly increase their revenue.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So what you are saying is that a union should wait until a companies back is against the wall before they even consider giving up perks?
yebat' Putin
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I think that I have said this before, but one of the things that the NFL wants is full time officials ..... and the current officials do not want to give up their other jobs to become full time NFL employees. With the NFL having expanded to Sunday, Monday, Thursday, and even some Saturday games, the NFL does not want to have to try and juggle officials between their jobs with the NFL, and their outside jobs. Right now, from what I can find, it appears that NFL officials start at around $80,000, and go up to $200,000 per year. Not to shabby for a job that takes up between 20-25 hours per week while the season is in for regular officials, and maybe 30-35 hours/week for senior officials ..... and for what .... 4 months? I'd do it, except that I could never be impartial. Every time the Ravens, Steelers, or Bengals had a big play in any game I officiated, I'd throw a flag.  Anyway, the NFL's position seems to be that they pay their officials very well for very part time duty, and since they want to keep their full time jobs with those benefits, there is no need for the NFL to provide retirement benefits as well. While I cna see the officials not wanting t give up any of their benefits, I can also see the NFL's side.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Once again Nick, it's about stripping a group from their current benifits when the business in question here has no need to.
If the NFL is offering equal money to compensate them, then why not just go ahead and give them the pensions?
If "all things are equal here" as you suggest.
The stock market can be quite variable as it pertains to return on investment. So don't sit here and claim it's the same as a pension.
The NFL is making tons of money and aren't in a position of need to fight this fight.
See thats where we agree. Take the huge pay raise off the table and leave the pension in place. They cant have both the 20% payraise to put into the 401K AND the league funds the pension at 20%.
I also admitted the replacement refs are not ruining the game for me, its not like the old ones got every call correct.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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So what you are saying is that a union should wait until a companies back is against the wall before they even consider giving up perks?
I'm saying that the league just signed a four year deal insuring the next four years will make the NFL richer.
I'm also saying that both labor and owners should deal in good faith. When the money is a boom, it should be a boom for all. When times get hard, it should be concessions by all.
Life shouldn't be a one way street by either. I guess what you are suggesting is that no matter how successful the NFL gets, all that contributed to making that happen shouldn't get their fair share?
The player contract gives them a share according to income but somehow the refs should be treated differently?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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