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After a major overhaul on offense from 2011 to 2012,I wanted to compare some of the numbers through 3 games.
In 2011 after 3 games the offense produced 61 PTS
in 2012 50 PTS (not counting the INT return.
TD passes through 3 games in 2011 5
in 2012 3
Rushing TDS in 2011 through 3 games 1
2012 2
INTs 1st 3 games 2011 3
2012 6
what I find interesting is that the TE's had 2 TDS through 3 games in 2011
and none in 2012.
another note is that only 1 Browns WR has over 100 YDS through 3 games...Massaquoi has 145...Ogybanna is 2nd in WR YDS with 87.
Richardson is averaging only 3.5 YPC through 3 games.
The 2011 offense had no Brad Childress.
2012 Brad Childress.
all in all,the offense despite all these "upgrades" seems to be going backwards so far.
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Some of this is due to a tougher schedule. Look at who we played last year.
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Hall of Famer
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We're young. We're on the right path. It's a five year plan. Pick your cliche excuse. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Exercise in futility.
First, it's only 3 games. It's impossible to draw any statistically valid opinions in that small of a sample size. But all that aside.
One word, rookies. They are virtually NEVER going to hit the ground running on all cylinders at a pro-bowl level game 1 regardless of their talent level.
I firmly believe we've upgraded talent on that side of the ball, but combine the fact we're so young and going through growing pains with our much tougher schedule...and you get what you see.
I don't expect to see it get a ton better statistically anytime soon either. This year was never about W's or L's with all our youth....well except for the Walrus who apparently knew his job was going to be on the line this year.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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thats whats bothersome about the overall culture of the franchise..its never about winning in the present..its always about development 3 years down the road.
This team hasn't improved or made strides from last year.
In fact it might lose more games in 2012.
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Legend
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Quote:
This team hasn't improved or made strides from last year.
This team hasn't improved or made strides over any team since 1999.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Are you blaming this on the guy who isn't calling the plays (Childress)? If not, why mention him? Shurmer is calling the plays, blame him.
Total yards is a whopping 68 yards less than last year. Net Passing is almost identical (630 last year, 627 this year), and net Rushing is down 65 yards this year.
We have a rookie QB, a rookie RB, a rookie RT, a 2nd year LG, a 2nd year FB, and a second year WR starting. That'd be more than 50% of the offense with less than 20 games of experience. Add in that rookie Gordon, rookie Benjamin, and 2nd year Cameron are playing a lot. As others have said, the team is really young, give them a little time...
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the playoff year was awesome..2007 was exciting. other than that....?
why is it the Browns can't draft rookies that bring in instant impact?
much like Dalton and Green in 2011.
heck even Luck and RG3 are looking like the real deals.
everything in Cleveland is always "wait a couple years."
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Quote:
thats whats bothersome about the overall culture of the franchise..its never about winning in the present..its always about development 3 years down the road.
This team hasn't improved or made strides from last year.
In fact it might lose more games in 2012.
We've had 6 head coaches in 13 years, 3 games. That'd be an average of 2 years, 3 games per coach. If development is 3 years down the road, maybe we should keep coaches that long.
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So the moral of the story is that no matter the talent, this offense is a pile of crap and should never have been instituted in the first place since this offense should be stuck in the 80's where it belongs.
you had a good run Hank.
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It's a complicated answer, but IMO the heart of it is we continue to purge coaches and front offices and hit the reset button every 2-3 years. Until it stops, our results won't either.
Guys never have the chance to develop for 5/6/7/8 years in the same scheme with the same coaches to the point that they can bring in a rookie and teach him all the nuances quickly, and even cover up some of his deficiencies (all rookies have them) which allows the rookie to just use his talents without thinking and learn on the fly. We never ever ever have that since 1999.
Not only that, but the coaches and players all end up playing for their jobs every December following yet another disappointing season. That causes us to inevitably win a couple meaningless games which kills our draft position for the next season and chance to get TRULY impact players.
Example: AJ Green. He went #4 and we picked #6. We never had a chance to get him.
Andrew Luck. See above.
RG3. See above.
There are a lot of good players each draft, and lots of depth to gain in the mid and lower rounds, but there are usually only a handful or less of truly hall-of-fame caliber, game changing from day 1, type talents each draft.....and every year we seem to JUST miss out on those guys.
It all goes back to the XBox rage-quit mentality of our franchise.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Legend
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Quote:
......... There is the old saying " Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then :....
.. So that means we are worse off than a Blind Squirrel .. 
Yup, this team's got no nuts.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Blame the old owner for listening to the fans and firing them.
But the fact that nearly none of these guys are coaching in the NFL or being GM's in the NFL after they leave Cleveland shows me that despite having little time, these guys aren't very good. Romeo managed to get another job, by hook or crook, and is showing that he is a pretty awful coach still.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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Quote:
Some of this is due to a tougher schedule. Look at who we played last year.
Yep. Last year we played the 0 for the first half Colts, and 0 for the first half Dolphins in the first 3 games. We also lost to the Bengals. This year our 1st 3 opponents are a combined 6-2.
We also have started and played a ton of rookies.
Obviously, I would like to see us playing better overall. I see us making way too many mistakes, and often these are unforced errors. This has to change.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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they battled... kind of..
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Legend
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Quote:
That causes us to inevitably win a couple meaningless games which kills our draft position for the next season and chance to get TRULY impact players.
Example: AJ Green. He went #4 and we picked #6. We never had a chance to get him.
Example: See Julio Jones. We traded out of the spot to take him and his numbers were about as good as AJ Green's last year and he was on a team with other options.
I agree with everything you said about resetting.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
the playoff year was awesome..2007 was exciting. other than that....?
why is it the Browns can't draft rookies that bring in instant impact?
much like Dalton and Green in 2011.
heck even Luck and RG3 are looking like the real deals.
everything in Cleveland is always "wait a couple years."
I believe it is because they went to teams with some stability, some vets, some foundation.
It makes it easier to plug in new pieces and maintain some success, and expediate the developement of the newer pieces.
We have a tendency to keep replacing too many pieces at a single time, not giving enough of a foundation for anything to develop.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Quote:
We have a tendency to keep replacing too many pieces at a single time, not giving enough of a foundation for anything to develop.
We also have a tendency to make excuses for why other teams improve, why other teams draft picks look better, why other teams sign good FAs, why other teams win occassionally.... there is always an excuse why it can't/won't/isn't happening here.... and it gets frustrating.
yebat' Putin
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2nd String
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There are only two options I see that makes any kind of sense.
1.) KEEP Shurmur and commit to him and his staff for the next 4 years. This would give Shurmur/Childress/Jauron/Heckert a FULL five years to build a foundation and develop players, and DEVELOP VETERANS (something this hasn't done other than Thomas and Jackson).
We all of the young talent we have, they need time to grow and develop together in the same scheme for a majority of their careers, if not all of their careers. One other key piece we are missing is VETERAN MENTORS, as I think the WR group would benefit from this. We need a STUD piece at WR. We need get the next AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald. What do they all have in common? They were picked in the Top 5 in the draft. Obviously BUST is huge factor here, but we need to take a chance. Last time we had a competent WR was Edwards in 2007. Remember how that offense worked out?
But by allowing this team to build itself and grow up together, and allow these draft picks to grow, we will have a solid foundation of players. Add in a few veterans and if Shurmur can’t get the job done in 5 years, it is time to find someone that can.
By doing this, the new coach will have a solid foundation to work with and we won’t enter into a new rebuilding phase. Instead it will be more of an “upgrading software” kind of approach, or retooling a few pieces of the team. But one must stop rebuilding first.
2.) CLEAN HOUSE. Then proceed to step 1.) and wait another five years. New owner/front office/coaching staff. If you want to go that far, then you might as well put a roof on the stadium, rename the stadium and everything else about this team. Start brand new. Nothing in the past has worked.
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jc
idk...........It seems like we are scoring more than last year. The first game is ruining the stats you used. I'm hoping that game was simply what it was....and now who this team is. I'm hoping what we have seen the last two weeks is more or less what the team is. I didn't have any real sold feeling last year that we could score over 20. Now I think we could.
So all in all I'm still not that stressed out. I'm way more worried about the Defense oddly enough, but feel that injurys/suspensions are having a HUGE impact there. I mean what if Phil had been playing? I'm liking the young Dlineman though, and think this overall will help the Browns.
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the Browns offense has put up 50 whopping pts through 3 games.
Last year it produced 61 pts with a malcontent RB, a QB that can't complete a 30 yard out route and a WR no longer in the NFL and RT tackle with one leg.
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Legend
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Quote:
the Browns offense has put up 50 whopping pts through 3 games.
Last year it produced 61 pts with a malcontent RB, a QB that can't complete a 30 yard out route and a WR no longer in the NFL and RT tackle with one leg.
Playing 2 0-Forever teams and the Bengals.
This year our opponents, 6-3.
Not that that would have anything to do with it...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Those 61 points certainly were indicative of how the rest of the season went offensively, too.
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Quote:
This year our 1st 3 opponents are a combined 6-2.
So only 3-2 when not playing against this team. ( Probably 4-2 now)
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Legend
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And in the 1st 3 games of last season, not counting playing us, our 1st 3 opponents combined for 1 win. (1-4, and 2 were in dire straits)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Quote:
And in the 1st 3 games of last season, not counting playing us, our 1st 3 opponents combined for 1 win. (1-4, and 2 were in dire straits)
Ok, let's play the association game... the Colts other 2 games were against Houston and Pittsburgh and the Dolphins other 2 games were against Houston and New England... how many of those games should they win? And Cincy played Denver and San Fran... not counting Denver who started horribly, they played a list of the best teams in the NFL...
yebat' Putin
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This offense is regressing. Its not improved over from last year despite the "upgrades"
Brandon Weeden is not protecting the football. At this rate he will throw for 30 INTS.
Of all the rookie QB's that is starting,he is playing the worst.
Say what you will about McCoy,he wasn't a INT machine.
and Weeden is getting some decent pass protection.
He's been able to stand in pocket and get some good looks downfield.
But Richardson isn't getting any running lanes.
Lavaou and Pinkston are NOT progressing. Neither guy could start for another AFC North team or AFC team for that matter.
Joe Thomas for whatever reason isn't playing at a high level.
Heckert's gamble on 2 WR's who didn't dominate in college isn't panning out.
Which WR is gonna step up and play like a WR?
someone has to step up and be a priority of the defense other than Richardson.
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as of now Russell Wilson has faced tougher opponents than Weeden....Arizona, Dallas, Philly.
yet he's 2-1 and has a good TD to INT ratio.
Weeden was touted as having these intangaibles that would be able to elevate the
Browns offense.
the front office felt that McCoy was the lone issue that was hurting the offense.
so they went out and drafted a QB high.
my eyes tell me the Browns offense is regressing.
and this offense had a whole off season to put their plan into action.
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Quote:
as of now Russell Wilson... has a good TD to INT ratio.
Though last night the refs certainly helped.
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Practice Squad
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Did you even watch that game last night?!?!?! To compare Wilson to Weeden is asinine. I'm not completely sold on Weeden, but did you see Seattles DEFENSE? Perhaps Wilson is 2-1 because of the contributions of that unit? For Christs sake, tossing aside that strong of an effort is folly. When arguing about play of QB; stats, opponents and what the other units of these teams (in the comparison) are doing to help WIN GAMES MUST be addressed.
Pushing agendas in general seems to be the joie de vivre lately on this board. Everyone here is so afraid to admit they are wrong and take such a hardline stance that it becomes bickering and nitpicking over words and intended meaning so as to provide an out in case they get caught it's becoming exhausting reading through threads. It's becoming increasingly difficult to believe we are actually fans of the same team! Weeden, McCoy, Wallace, Delhomme all the way back to Couch, Detmer, Kosar, Testaverde and Zier, the name on the back shouldn't trump what the name on the front is in order to further ones agenda, and by extension, sense of self aggrandizing.
"If you need two yards, I'll get you two yards. If you need four yards, I'll get you two yards!" Ron Wolfley, Special Teams Madman
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Quote:
the front office felt that McCoy was the lone issue that was hurting the offense.
so they went out and drafted a QB high.
Man you're dueling KoB for most factually wrong posts for months now, lol Grab a mirror and do what apparently your nature urges you to do there...and not here
Not that I expect an answer (you never do, that's probably you being smart), but here goes:
Didn't they draft a RB significantly higher (with multiple uptrade picks on top)?
Didn't they draft a RT right after the QB with a top 50 selection?
Didn't they invest another high 2nd and most likely Top 50 pick in the Supp Draft on a WR?
Do you still think the FO thought it was all on McCoy? 
Oh and on "INT Machine Weeden"...I think he had 7 straight Qtrs without a TO and then he threw 2 picks into a D that knew that we had to pass...happens pretty much every sunday to the best of them...of course Colt would have padded his stats to a useless 5min FG or TD drive with the clock expiring. I'd rather have a QB that at least tries and understands situational football over a selfish stat padder who's afraid to worsen his stats even more when his teams needs him to make plays instead of dumping it off or taking off for 7yds
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
And in the 1st 3 games of last season, not counting playing us, our 1st 3 opponents combined for 1 win. (1-4, and 2 were in dire straits)
Ok, let's play the association game... the Colts other 2 games were against Houston and Pittsburgh and the Dolphins other 2 games were against Houston and New England... how many of those games should they win? And Cincy played Denver and San Fran... not counting Denver who started horribly, they played a list of the best teams in the NFL...
OK, we'll play.
The Colts, last year, lost to:
Texans, Browns, Steelers, Bucs, Chefs, Bengals, Saints, Titans, Falcons, Jags, Panthers, Patriots, and Ravens in a row.
The Dolphins lost to the Pats, Texans, us, Chargers, Jets, Broncos, and Jets.
So what? They had games they could have won, and games they "should have lost".
Is anyone still talking about who beat us in 2010? (or who we beat?) Nope, because in the end it doesn't matter.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And the Browns have more offensive yards at this point than last year. Weeden has passed for more yards than McCoy had.
We can play the duelling stats game all day.
The offense is up and down right now. Disgusting in the first game, great in the second, up and down in the third. The key is obviously Richardson getting involved and productive early to open up the passing game a bit.
I feel the offense has improved but some of Kendall's points do ring true. Our OLine seems to be getting pushed around quite a bit. Our WRs still can't catch. I'm just hoping that the offense steadily improves throughout the year because once we have Taylor and Haden back our defense improves by a country mile.
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you have any proof McCoy was a "selfish stat prodder"?
from what I seen out of McCoy,he basically is that kind of QB that is gonna take
what the defense gives him.
I rather have a QB take off and run or checkdown rather than throw into bracketed coverage.
yeah give me that 8 YD scamper over a forced INT anyday.
you know what seperates good QBs from average....how they respond in the 4th Q when the defense knows you have to make throws.
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Quote:
We've had 6 head coaches in 13 years, 3 games. That'd be an average of 2 years, 3 games per coach. If development is 3 years down the road, maybe we should keep coaches that long.
The problem is if you take a peek at the average Browns coach at the 2 year 3 game mark, his record rounded up would be 11-24 with an 8% chance at making the playoffs in a given year. Maybe the reason we don't keep coaches that long is because they've all sucked. 
We're... we're good?
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Quote:
Pushing agendas in general seems to be the joie de vivre lately on this board. Everyone here is so afraid to admit they are wrong and take such a hardline stance that it becomes bickering and nitpicking over words and intended meaning so as to provide an out in case they get caught it's becoming exhausting reading through threads. It's becoming increasingly difficult to believe we are actually fans of the same team! Weeden, McCoy, Wallace, Delhomme all the way back to Couch, Detmer, Kosar, Testaverde and Zier, the name on the back shouldn't trump what the name on the front is in order to further ones agenda, and by extension, sense of self aggrandizing.
/\ This. Exactly.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Quote:
And the Browns have more offensive yards at this point than last year. Weeden has passed for more yards than McCoy had.
We can play the duelling stats game all day.
The offense is up and down right now. Disgusting in the first game, great in the second, up and down in the third. The key is obviously Richardson getting involved and productive early to open up the passing game a bit.
I feel the offense has improved but some of Kendall's points do ring true. Our OLine seems to be getting pushed around quite a bit. Our WRs still can't catch. I'm just hoping that the offense steadily improves throughout the year because once we have Taylor and Haden back our defense improves by a country mile.
I was wondering about this and I dont know some of the watch the tape people may be able to comment on it but could it be that because our QB isnt moble and the defense doesnt have to account for a QB like McCoy that would take off on the 1st sign of pressure be why we have less holes up the middle for T-Rich to run through and by extention make the line look worse then they really are?
The reason I wonder is because our outside runs with Benji and such really produce big time now. IDK its just something I was wondering about today.
PS Im not calling for mccoy in any way shape or form, I want weeden playing.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Legend
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Philly and Buffalo both used LB spies on our RBs. DeMeco followed them wherever they went and the Bills rotated who they used (but same idea).
What we are not doing a good job at thus far is taking the spies out of the play (either by tricking them into double-covering TRich on a pass or sealing them on runs).
The Ravens have watched 2 teams do this and have good defensive coaches, so I assume we will see more of it on Thursday.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Quote:
Pushing agendas in general seems to be the joie de vivre lately on this board. Everyone here is so afraid to admit they are wrong and take such a hardline stance that it becomes bickering and nitpicking over words and intended meaning so as to provide an out in case they get caught it's becoming exhausting reading through threads. It's becoming increasingly difficult to believe we are actually fans of the same team! Weeden, McCoy, Wallace, Delhomme all the way back to Couch, Detmer, Kosar, Testaverde and Zier, the name on the back shouldn't trump what the name on the front is in order to further ones agenda, and by extension, sense of self aggrandizing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns offense through 3 games
2011 to 2012
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